Results 1 to 24 of 24
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    64

    racing wheelset for 29er: king w/Flow or I9 w/Flow?

    I am 210 and looking at a new wheelset for this season for Leadville, Chequamegon, and a couple of other races here in the Midwest. Am itching to buy a new wheelset to help (am working on the engine part...dont worry). I am looking at Stans Flow over Arch's for both and they are basicly within $100 for either Industry Nine with their proprietary Aluminum spokes laced to Stans Flows or Kings laced to Flows with DT swiss double butted or triple butted spokes. Could go either way...thoughts from the Wheels and Tires crowd would be appreciated...thanks. Feedback for the short and long run would be great.

    massalsa

  2. #2
    not so super...
    Reputation: SSINGA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    11,459
    I prefer the stiffness of the I9 over anything else - especially on a 29'r. I have owned 3 sets and have not had an issue running them hard. My last 2 were on Flows which is a great rim IMO.
    Nothing to see here.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation: yfdcap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    255
    I have 3 sets of I9's and 1 set of kings. Both great choices. I do love my I9's best. The spokes are a little more difficult to get(more money also). They do come with spares. Both are easy to service. No flex with the I9's.

  4. #4
    Vaginatarian
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    5,685
    Quote Originally Posted by SSINGA
    I prefer the stiffness of the I9 over anything else - especially on a 29'r. I have owned 3 sets and have not had an issue running them hard. My last 2 were on Flows which is a great rim IMO.

    +1

  5. #5

  6. #6
    Welcome Turner Homers!
    Reputation: el Turtlehead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    761

    I9

    for racing the I9 is best in my book as it has zero drag. Most King hubs have some drag in them. Some hubs lose the drag, others do not. If I could afford to get rid of the kings on my FS for another set of I9s I would do it immediately.




    Quote Originally Posted by massalsa
    I am 210 and looking at a new wheelset for this season for Leadville, Chequamegon, and a couple of other races here in the Midwest. Am itching to buy a new wheelset to help (am working on the engine part...dont worry). I am looking at Stans Flow over Arch's for both and they are basicly within $100 for either Industry Nine with their proprietary Aluminum spokes laced to Stans Flows or Kings laced to Flows with DT swiss double butted or triple butted spokes. Could go either way...thoughts from the Wheels and Tires crowd would be appreciated...thanks. Feedback for the short and long run would be great.

    massalsa
    Ask me about my translucent green clearcoat!

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    64

    trying to figure out what i should amputate in order to get from 210 to 170...

    Quote Originally Posted by amillmtb
    maybe i could cut off my head and my arse to get under that 170 lb that is from the notubes site as their "recommended rider weight limit"!!!

    I would cut off a leg or an arm but that would make it much more difficult on the hike a bike sections or the screaming downhills.

    I know that 4 spokes come with a set of I9s and was wondering how much $$$ spokes are today if I needed to replace some after a knarly crash later in the summer...thanks.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: yfdcap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    255
    Quote Originally Posted by massalsa
    maybe i could cut off my head and my arse to get under that 170 lb that is from the notubes site as their "recommended rider weight limit"!!!

    I would cut off a leg or an arm but that would make it much more difficult on the hike a bike sections or the screaming downhills.

    I know that 4 spokes come with a set of I9s and was wondering how much $$$ spokes are today if I needed to replace some after a knarly crash later in the summer...thanks.
    About five bucks each.

  9. #9
    Alaska Turner Mafia
    Reputation: EndoRando's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    1,098
    I consider myself a Clydesdale as well, and went with Flows and Chris King. However, I went the 36H option to aid the longer spoke lengths. Feels plenty stiff to me. I run them on a Sultan, and it seems to me with having suspension on both ends, I'm hitting things harder than I would with a hardtail. So far they're holding up fine, after a full year's banging.

    The light weight of the hubs was no factor in my purchase criteria, unlike you, thinking of a race wheelset. I bought them for their sealing and their bearing quality. We get some really crappy conditions in Alaska, and the Kings have proven they can withstand. That tight sealing probably accounts for some inherent drag. If the I9's roll with less resistance, they may not be sealed as well, so consider that if you don't live in a dry area. Also consider whether or not off the shelf wheelbuilding parts in remote areas is a factor.
    Deceleration Trauma is my middle name

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    510

    I've gone a simlar route as you

    Being a Clyde too, I chose I9's but with the Archs instead of Flows just because of the weight savings. Having owned both types of hubs it is tough to distuginsh the differences. Everyone has brought up good points. But go with I9 with Archs if it is a true race only wheelset, the Flows for everydays. I went also with the old Racing Ralphs 2.25s and note for the wheel set choose them in the 9 and 10 mm thru axle combos, not standard skewers!
    High Ho Sultan, Lets GO

  11. #11
    Vaginatarian
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    5,685
    Quote Originally Posted by el Turtlehead
    for racing the I9 is best in my book as it has zero drag. Most King hubs have some drag in them. Some hubs lose the drag, others do not. If I could afford to get rid of the kings on my FS for another set of I9s I would do it immediately.
    zero drag?
    anything that has pawls has drag, especially 6 pawls. You can remove 3 of the pawls for less drag but they definately have drag. they even mention it on their web site

  12. #12
    Vaginatarian
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    5,685
    Quote Originally Posted by massalsa
    maybe i could cut off my head and my arse to get under that 170 lb that is from the notubes site as their "recommended rider weight limit"!!!

    I would cut off a leg or an arm but that would make it much more difficult on the hike a bike sections or the screaming downhills.

    I know that 4 spokes come with a set of I9s and was wondering how much $$$ spokes are today if I needed to replace some after a knarly crash later in the summer...thanks.
    I believe the weight limit is only for the ztr race series, not the 29er flow or arches
    I weigh 225 and beat my flows on rocks all day long with no issues what so ever
    after a year they are still true and round

  13. #13
    Vaginatarian
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    5,685
    Quote Originally Posted by EndoRando
    I consider myself a Clydesdale as well, and went with Flows and Chris King. However, I went the 36H option to aid the longer spoke lengths. Feels plenty stiff to me. I run them on a Sultan, and it seems to me with having suspension on both ends, I'm hitting things harder than I would with a hardtail. So far they're holding up fine, after a full year's banging.

    The light weight of the hubs was no factor in my purchase criteria, unlike you, thinking of a race wheelset. I bought them for their sealing and their bearing quality. We get some really crappy conditions in Alaska, and the Kings have proven they can withstand. That tight sealing probably accounts for some inherent drag. If the I9's roll with less resistance, they may not be sealed as well, so consider that if you don't live in a dry area. Also consider whether or not off the shelf wheelbuilding parts in remote areas is a factor.
    I9s can be had with conventional spokes as well, but as far as off the shelf? CK makes their own bearings, I9 uses off the shelf ABEC 5 bearings, CK needs a special tool, I9 uses regular tools
    seal wise CK is probably better
    I9 has convertable axles, CK doesnt
    Both have drag, I9 has a faster engagement,CK are slightly stronger
    using the I9 spokes will make the wheel stiffer as the alum. is stiffer
    Both are great and you cant go wrong with either

  14. #14
    Welcome Turner Homers!
    Reputation: el Turtlehead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    761

    okay, Mr. Pedantic.....

    Comparitively, I9s have zero drag. Kings , comparatively, Have lots of it. I have both. I know this. If we want to be picky, wherever there is any kind of friction, there's drag. All bearing surfaces have friction, therefore all bearing surfaces have drag.


    Quote Originally Posted by dan0
    zero drag?
    anything that has pawls has drag, especially 6 pawls. You can remove 3 of the pawls for less drag but they definately have drag. they even mention it on their web site
    Ask me about my translucent green clearcoat!

  15. #15
    11 is one louder than 10
    Reputation: Green Giant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    1,348

    King axles

    Quote Originally Posted by dan0
    I9 has convertable axles, CK doesnt
    King is coming out with axle kits to pretty much allow conversions. There will be some limitations. On front hubs, a 9mm QR can be made into a 15QR.. and a 20mm thru can be made into a 15QR. But they will not have a front hub that can go from 9mm to 20mm thru.

    The shells are different but they are making axle kits.

    A kit to go from a rear QR to 10mm thru or 12mm thru is also coming quite soon.

    I've also heard of a "fun bolt" like option being tested for the QR front hubs.

    Ultimately having been over 200lbs for most of my adult life I've had great luck with kings. When you send your hubs back in for service they are also quite liberal with helping out with any parts needed I've found.

    I'm sure both companies make a fine product. I like King and what they stand for environmentally etc. But both companies are US made which is nice.
    "The thing is, Bob, it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care."

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    30

    I9 Classic w/ Arches

    That would be my suggestion. With the classics you aren't locked into a proprietary spoke system and you have the option of different (lighter) spokes on the front and non-drive side rear. Weight penalty is approximately 68 grams for the I9 classics compared to the CKs. As stated above, the I9s give you more options in terms of quick release and thru axles.

    I had Troy at Ligerowheelworks build a 29er set of No Tubes laced to I9 classics. I wanted to go with 355s front and rear and DT Swiss 240s hubs. Troy convinced me that I would get a stiffer wheel if I went with the I9 hubs, because they have a wider flange spacing, and an Arch rim in the rear. He built a similar set for a guy who is 190 lbs and there have been no problems after a year of use. Here is a link to Troy's photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ligerowheels Scroll down to the red I9s dated April 1st for a look. With the DT Swiss RWS 9 mm and 10 mm thru axle/skewers the set penciled out just over 1800 gm on my spreadsheet. They are laced w/ Sapim Lasers for the front and non-drive side rear, DT Swiss Super Comps drive side rear. Arches front and rear should yield an even stiffer wheelset.

    CJ

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    315
    Quote Originally Posted by dan0
    Both have drag, I9 has a faster engagement,CK are slightly stronger
    In regards to strength of the drive mechanisms in each; the Kings are rated at 800ft/lbs and the Industry Nine's at 700ft/lbs. Either way they'll hold up to anything a human rider can dish out, as I remember the maximum torque output for a UCI Pro-level cyclist is in the neighborhood of 70-85ft/lbs.

    I've used CK on my old hardtail for the last 12 years and can speak for their durability as I am still running the original bearings, I'm about 180lbs at 6'1".
    I have a set of I9's on Arches on order for my new 29er race bike as I'm too heavy for the 355s, I'll have to give them a year to see how they stack up to the CK in terms of bearing durability. I went with the I9s because I wanted something stiffer than hell, and something a little different.

  18. #18
    Vaginatarian
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    5,685
    Quote Originally Posted by el Turtlehead
    Comparitively, I9s have zero drag. Kings , comparatively, Have lots of it. I have both. I know this. If we want to be picky, wherever there is any kind of friction, there's drag. All bearing surfaces have friction, therefore all bearing surfaces have drag.
    pedantic? You said I9s have zero drag, not comparitively. Im not being picky, I have I9s and love them but they are far from zero drag. I can spin my race lite or Mavic wheels 3 or 4 times as long as the I9s or Kings. If you want quick engagement & tight seals thats the price you pay

  19. #19
    Vaginatarian
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    5,685
    Quote Originally Posted by Green Giant
    King is coming out with axle kits to pretty much allow conversions. There will be some limitations. On front hubs, a 9mm QR can be made into a 15QR.. and a 20mm thru can be made into a 15QR. But they will not have a front hub that can go from 9mm to 20mm thru.

    The shells are different but they are making axle kits.

    A kit to go from a rear QR to 10mm thru or 12mm thru is also coming quite soon.

    I've also heard of a "fun bolt" like option being tested for the QR front hubs.

    Ultimately having been over 200lbs for most of my adult life I've had great luck with kings. When you send your hubs back in for service they are also quite liberal with helping out with any parts needed I've found.

    I'm sure both companies make a fine product. I like King and what they stand for environmentally etc. But both companies are US made which is nice.
    so my original statement is correct? Now , I mean, not sometime into the future

  20. #20
    Vaginatarian
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    5,685
    Quote Originally Posted by Photograph
    In regards to strength of the drive mechanisms in each; the Kings are rated at 800ft/lbs and the Industry Nine's at 700ft/lbs. Either way they'll hold up to anything a human rider can dish out, as I remember the maximum torque output for a UCI Pro-level cyclist is in the neighborhood of 70-85ft/lbs.

    I've used CK on my old hardtail for the last 12 years and can speak for their durability as I am still running the original bearings, I'm about 180lbs at 6'1".
    I have a set of I9's on Arches on order for my new 29er race bike as I'm too heavy for the 355s, I'll have to give them a year to see how they stack up to the CK in terms of bearing durability. I went with the I9s because I wanted something stiffer than hell, and something a little different.
    mine are just about a year old , havent had any problems at all, just pulled the freehub off to relube and the lube and bearings are all perfect. they use ABEC 5 bearings throughout, Enduro seals has ceramic replacements if you desire

  21. #21
    11 is one louder than 10
    Reputation: Green Giant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    1,348

    touchy

    Quote Originally Posted by dan0
    so my original statement is correct? Now , I mean, not sometime into the future
    Easy now.

    Actually some of the kits are available now. Just call King.

    Just trying to help the OP out. I wouldn't let axle options be the limiting factor in any decision, and either product should hold up to years of abuse so this is a long term purchase. Any of the King axles not available now will be soon, and with an added option of the 9mm bolt-on depending on the hub choice.

    Really, a good decision to have to make I9 vs King.

    My suggestion - if you want the I9 spoke system - go I9. If you are using standard spokes - Go King.

    There have been reports here of the I9 front hubs loosening up with no ability to snug the axle like the KINGs, not many, just a few. There have also been reports of the I9 spokes loosening up consistantly. I suspect this is due to a larger thread pitch and if a cutter starts to wear out.

    THAT SAID - Both companies seem to have an excellent reputation for their products and backing them up. I would have no problem considering I9's in the future, but King has treated me incredibly well, does a nice job with the environment etc. Those things matter to me.

    I suspect the OP will be thrilled with whatever way he goes.
    "The thing is, Bob, it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care."

  22. #22
    Vaginatarian
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    5,685
    Quote Originally Posted by Green Giant
    Easy now.

    Actually some of the kits are available now. Just call King.

    Just trying to help the OP out. I wouldn't let axle options be the limiting factor in any decision, and either product should hold up to years of abuse so this is a long term purchase. Any of the King axles not available now will be soon, and with an added option of the 9mm bolt-on depending on the hub choice.

    Really, a good decision to have to make I9 vs King.

    My suggestion - if you want the I9 spoke system - go I9. If you are using standard spokes - Go King.

    There have been reports here of the I9 front hubs loosening up with no ability to snug the axle like the KINGs, not many, just a few. There have also been reports of the I9 spokes loosening up consistantly. I suspect this is due to a larger thread pitch and if a cutter starts to wear out.

    THAT SAID - Both companies seem to have an excellent reputation for their products and backing them up. I would have no problem considering I9's in the future, but King has treated me incredibly well, does a nice job with the environment etc. Those things matter to me.

    I suspect the OP will be thrilled with whatever way he goes.
    well IF the kits are available, do they work on the older hubs? most of the kits for other manufacturers are just 2 metal adaptors, you pop out the existing one and pop in the adaptor. if CK s original parts dont pop out, or if the bearings are too small to receive a 20mm...
    Last edited by dan0; 04-04-2009 at 10:40 AM.

  23. #23
    11 is one louder than 10
    Reputation: Green Giant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    1,348

    Older Hubs

    Quote Originally Posted by dan0
    well IF the kits are available, do they work on the older hubs? most of the kits for other manufacturers are just 2 metal adaptors, you pop out the existing one and pop in the adaptor. if CK s original parts dont pop out, or if the bearings are too small to receive a 20mm...
    Yes, they work on older hubs. It's an axle swap, and actually still allows for bearing preload adjustments unlike just about everyone elses, particularly on the fronts. Some might consider this an advantage. The axle swap takes about 2-3 minutes.


    In fact, lots of cool things King can do. They can reshell your old classic hubs to ISO discs if you would like, at a charge of course but it's reasonable.

    Some might consider just switching the axle caps to be an advantage and that is fine also. Personally I could care less what anyone else rides.
    "The thing is, Bob, it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care."

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PuddleDuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    936
    I'm just over 200, and I'm VERY HAPPY with i9's with Arch's. I wouldn't go with Flows if this is a racing wheel set. The Arch's will be plenty stiff.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •