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  1. #1
    Bicyclochondriac.
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    No good Presta tubes with no lock ring?

    I just picked up a set of Presta tubes, and was a bit pissed when I got home and installed them.

    Not only are they missing the lock rings for the valve stems, but the valve stems are not even threaded

    WTF? This was the main advantage of Presta, IMO.

    The problem I have with these is that on some of my pumps I have to push kind of hard to get the pump onto the presta valve, so if my tire is low on air, then the valve just gets pushed into the tire. I have to completely deflate the tire so that I can push the valve out while I attach the pump, then pump it up.

    Why on Earth would they lose the lock ring?

    They are Kenda Tubes.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  2. #2
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    I have picked up tubes in the past that have/dont have the lock rings.

    I also have tubes that I have lost the lock rings, and ran them anyways.

    To inflate, just push down on the tyre where the valve is. Even if its not dead flat, it should work.This will hold the valve in place, and make it easy to get the pump seated. Once seated, just get pumping as usual.

    I guess its a pain, but I have changed enough tubes on my bike to not really care anymore.
    Burning fat, not oil.

  3. #3
    Poacher
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    One of the shop mechanics I know, never used them. Now we all run tubeless

  4. #4
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    People still buy tubes?
    konahonzo

  5. #5
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    Specialized tubes are like this. I have run them with no problems, but prefer the locknut.

    urmb
    “Nothing compares to the simple pleasure of riding a \mountain or fat/ bike.” ~ John F. Kennedy

  6. #6
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    The locknut is irrelevant even if the tire is totally flat. I never use those on my road bike.

    I do use a locknut on MTB because it's a tubeless UST valve. It actually needs the locknut, whereas a tube doesn't.

  7. #7
    Bicyclochondriac.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    The locknut is irrelevant even if the tire is totally flat. I never use those on my road bike.

    I do use a locknut on MTB because it's a tubeless UST valve. It actually needs the locknut, whereas a tube doesn't.
    The problem is not when the tire is totally flat. The problem is when the tire is just low on air (20 psi for example).
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  8. #8
    A wheelist
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    I've used Presta tubes with no locknuts for exactly 50 years on road, track or MTB and have never suffered from the lack of said nuts.

    Nuts/schmuts.
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  9. #9
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    Make the valve anywhere but on the bottom of the tire. Hold the back of the tire, pressing inward, and attach your pump. It's extremely easy. In fact I bet you've already done it, and just wanted to rant with this thread.

    You don't need those nuts.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    Make the valve anywhere but on the bottom of the tire. Hold the back of the tire, pressing inward, and attach your pump. It's extremely easy. In fact I bet you've already done it, and just wanted to rant with this thread. You don't need those nuts.
    Yeah the thumb is a wonderful invention. We should make full use of them. I just used mine when installing a new tire (and pumping it sans nut) a 1/2hr ago.
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  11. #11
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    I actually prefer the look of smooth valve stems. Also I think the threads just wear the rubber of the pump head faster.

  12. #12
    Bicyclochondriac.
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    Here is my issue with these, illustrated in two pictures.

    Tire has ~18- psi in it (not uncommon for an mtb tire that's been sitting around for a few days). First pic shows where the stem is before I start pushing down with the pump head to get it to fully seat on the valve (before I flip the lever on the pump head to complete the seal). Second pic is where the stem ends up when I push down, and the pump head has still not fully sealed, which is not that surprising considering the stem gets pushed in so easily. Basically, if I want to add air, I need to deflate the tire so that I can push on the bottom of the stem against the pump head.

    I tried this on my other pump, and it does seal a little better, and I can add air, but it is hissing out as I do so. I've got to be pretty quick about unhooking it before I loose too much pressure.

    If this were a 23c road tire, it would likely just get pushed in until it bottomed out against the ground, and then there would be something to push against when I push the pump head on, but in this case the tire is big enough to swallow the whole stem.

    Whatever, I'll just make sure to get tubes with nuts next time, and it's not like I can't ride the bike. Just seems silly to not even give one the option to run the nuts. Heck, even if they wanted to save the $0.02 on the nut, they could at least have used a threaded stem.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Presta tubes with no lock ring?-1116121049.jpg  

    Presta tubes with no lock ring?-1116121050a.jpg  

    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    I just picked up a set of Presta tubes, and was a bit pissed when I got home and installed them.

    Not only are they missing the lock rings for the valve stems, but the valve stems are not even threaded

    WTF? This was the main advantage of Presta, IMO.

    The problem I have with these is that on some of my pumps I have to push kind of hard to get the pump onto the presta valve, so if my tire is low on air, then the valve just gets pushed into the tire. I have to completely deflate the tire so that I can push the valve out while I attach the pump, then pump it up.

    Why on Earth would they lose the lock ring?

    They are Kenda Tubes.
    take them back...

  14. #14
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    I can't believe you took pics doing exactly what I said not to!

    If the tube has little enough enough to push into the rim, you can also push from the back side WITH YOUR HAND if you just rotate the tire so that the valve is anywhere you can reach the tread of the tire.

    If the tube has enough air to not push into the rim... obviously no issue there.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T. View Post
    Yeah the thumb is a wonderful invention. We should make full use of them. I just used mine when installing a new tire (and pumping it sans nut) a 1/2hr ago.
    My issue is NOT when installing a new tube or tire, or pumping it up from flat. It is when pumping it up when it is just low on pressure (see explanation below).

    I've run into this in the past when I just lost or forgot the nut, so I assumed that this was the very reason for having the nut in the first place.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    I can't believe you took pics doing exactly what I said not to!

    If the tube has little enough enough to push into the rim, you can also push from the back side WITH YOUR HAND if you just rotate the tire so that the valve is anywhere you can reach the tread of the tire.

    If the tube has enough air to not push into the rim... obviously no issue there.
    . I would like to see you do what you are suggesting with 18psi in a 2.0 or larger tire. Maybe you have much stronger hands than me, but I could not do it (I've tried)

    What you are suggesting is exactly what I do, but I need to deflate the tire completely to do so.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  17. #17
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    You could hold it with a set of pliers or sometihng...

  18. #18
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    I've done it with 18 psi in a 45, 35, 34, 32, 25, and 23mm tires. You don't need to bottom the tire out against the rim. Merely pushing on it will force the valve out of the rim.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    I've done it with 18 psi in a 45, 35, 34, 32, 25, and 23mm tires. You don't need to bottom the tire out against the rim. Merely pushing on it will force the valve out of the rim.
    So, you have done this with smaller tires.

    I will believe that someone can do this with a 2.0 tire when I see it.

    Of course, a lot will depend on the pump as well. Some pumps likely do not need as much force to seal.

    A super long stem will help, too. These are already pretty long, but these are deep rims.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  20. #20
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    Well, despite my defending of my position on this, it is very informative to see that this is a non-issue for pretty much everyone responding.

    I guess I just find it odd that people have been running presta tubes with no lock nuts for years, and never run into the problem that I have several times in my very limited time without them.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  21. #21
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    I used them a little while because I thought they were necessary. Then I realized they weren't, and I started actively discarding them, along with presta valve caps. My road bike is 10g lighter! (Maybe.)

  22. #22
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    I prefer the threaded stems too, but sometimes end up with a smooth one.
    If you can't squeeze the tire, try putting your thumb against the valve stem itself and pushing it to the side. You should get enough friction from the edge of the rim and your thumb for it to not slip down while attaching the pump.
    '15 Soma Wolverine '12 Soma Analog SS '10 Transition TransAM '07 Felt F1X '97 Schwinn Mesa SS '89 Fuji Saratoga '86 Fuji Club

  23. #23
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    Torelli tubes do not have threaded stems, although I have only ever used their roadbike tubes. I actually prefer these over tubes with threaded stems. I like how easy the pump head pops off of the stem. With the high pressure and low volume of a 700x23 tire, this is nice.

    For my mountain bikes, I have always used threaded presta stems with the lock nuts. I have no doubt I could inflate a smooth stem using the method ColinL suggested, which is exactly what I use for my roadbike. My primary issue with not using a locknut on my mountainbike is the noise. I know it is a minor thing, but I also ride my mountainbike around our neighborhood with my family and with no lock nut, the low tire pressue causes the stem to make a very audible click against the rim every time it rotates to the bottom. Like I said, a minor thing, but the ..."click"..."click"..."click"...."click"....reall y starts to get on my nerves after about 10 minutes. And then on top of that, the kids start to complain that my twiching left eye and clenched teeth scares the neighbors.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    My issue is NOT when installing a new tube or tire, or pumping it up from flat. It is when pumping it up when it is just low on pressure (see explanation below).
    I've run into this in the past when I just lost or forgot the nut, so I assumed that this was the very reason for having the nut in the first place.
    There's your problem (in the pics below). I have the same pump head. You're trying to do it with the valve at the bottom. I do it with the valve at the top and have no issues. If there isn't enough pressure in the tube already, to resist the pressure of you installing the head, then use your thumb to press down on the tire.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T. View Post
    There's your problem (in the pics below). I have the same pump head. You're trying to do it with the valve at the bottom. I do it with the valve at the top and have no issues. If there isn't enough pressure in the tube already, to resist the pressure of you installing the head, then use your thumb to press down on the tire.
    Someone else made the same comment, and I responded. I've tried that. In fact, once I let most of the pressure out, it is exactly what I do.

    Just wish I did not need to let the pressure out and put it back in.

    Whatever, this is more than I planned to talk about this, it's not THAT big of a deal, just more hassle than it needs to be, IMO. I just find it to be a design with a noticeable flaw.

    Luckily, you have not run into this situation. Not sure why, but there you go.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    Luckily, you have not run into this situation. Not sure why, but there you go.
    With that pump head the valve has to be fully seated into the head. Sometimes it takes 2-3 tries to achieve this.
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T. View Post
    With that pump head the valve has to be fully seated into the head. Sometimes it takes 2-3 tries to achieve this.
    Finally Bingo


    Geez I just screw the little nut on and push the pump head on .....

    Works first time everytime.....

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T. View Post
    With that pump head the valve has to be fully seated into the head. Sometimes it takes 2-3 tries to achieve this.
    Yes that is EXACTLY the problem, getting it fully seated.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott View Post
    Finally Bingo
    Geez I just screw the little nut on and push the pump head on .....
    Works first time everytime.....
    Why didn't *I* think of that!
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  30. #30
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    Get a pump that isn't a pile of crap and your problem is solved. I hate threaded valve stems, there constantly tearing up pump heads. Perhaps a pump that isn't universal fit would do you some good. The sks is awesome but presta specific. Many other brands do a dual sided pump head that works way better than whatever your using now.

  31. #31
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    I have heard that some racers prefered not to use the nut because if they got a flat during a race they could change the tire faster. That was probably more the case before the tubeless craze.

    I happen to still be a tube guy and I'm not a racer. I prefer the threaded stem with the nut for the reason you state. I have a habit of always opening the box and looking inside ever since getting a schraeder tube in a presta box once. I believe that was a previous Walmart shopper. Now I look no matter where I am buying.
    Last edited by huffster; 11-19-2012 at 03:25 PM.

  32. #32
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    You can't change a flat and end up anything but DFL, unless it's a really long race like 40+ miles. So, I doubt that is much of a factor...

  33. #33
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    I dislike the thread less as well. Yeah you can get user to them, but decades ago I never recall if I ever saw them back them.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by customfab View Post
    Get a pump that isn't a pile of crap and your problem is solved. I hate threaded valve stems, there constantly tearing up pump heads. Perhaps a pump that isn't universal fit would do you some good. The sks is awesome but presta specific. Many other brands do a dual sided pump head that works way better than whatever your using now.
    So, go buy two new pumps to solve a problem that is due to a lack of a $0.02 part?

    No thanks, I'll just stick to tubes with the nut.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  35. #35
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    Too funny....

    I doubt the OP's original intent was to start a Troll thread, not so sure now.
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    I doubt the OP's original intent was to start a Troll thread, not so sure now.
    Seriously?
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  37. #37
    NedwannaB
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    ????

    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    Seriously?
    You tell me. 30+ posts on a stem locknut....

    Not sure many others did but I got your initial point which i assumed was more about the slippery threadless stem rather than a "I can't figure out how to fill up my tire without one!"
    But, seriously, as you said, scrounging in the tube box for a locknut? I'm sure you've done enough tire repairs over your riding career to accumulate a few in your seat bag or camelback.

    I've run across these at times too but they actually work easier to slide pump head on since not fighting the threads.
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    You tell me. 30+ posts on a stem locknut....
    .
    I can't help how many people posts in this thread
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  39. #39
    NedwannaB
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    Point taken. For me it's rain and vicarious riding via here, and latest editions of Bike and DR....

    Keep them posts comin people!!
    Last edited by JMac47; 11-17-2012 at 10:36 AM. Reason: typo
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    Well, despite my defending of my position on this, it is very informative to see that this is a non-issue for pretty much everyone responding.

    I guess I just find it odd that people have been running presta tubes with no lock nuts for years, and never run into the problem that I have several times in my very limited time without them.
    I just found this thread and agree with you completely. Everyone who has responded saying you don't need the locknuts is correct. At the same time anyone could air up all their tires with a mini hand pump, yet they still have floor pumps and air compressors. The locknut is a tool that makes the same job easier. Especially if you find yourself on the trail with a pack or frame pump you already need two thumbs to operate. Makes it a PITA to air that damn tire up having to pump and hold at the same time. I'm guessing companies still make those without locknuts because it's cheaper to manufacture and they can charge the same price.

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  41. #41
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    Pros of threaded nut:

    1. Easier to add air
    2. Tube does not slide in tire

    Cons of threaded nut:

    1. Slower tube change
    2. If loose, rattles on wheel
    3. Weight
    4. Wears out pump head prematurely
    5. Weakens stem at tube, can allow valve to tear and tube resulting in a flat

  42. #42
    NedwannaB
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    Really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spinning Lizard View Post
    Pros of threaded nut:

    1. Easier to add air-Compared to what, holding it on stem?
    2. Tube does not slide in tire- Only if you don't have enuff air in it in first place

    Cons of threaded nut:

    1. Slower tube change- How so? 2 seconds on trail ride, maybe. Omit on race day
    2. If loose, rattles on wheel-Opperator error....
    3. Weight-Pffft
    4. Wears out pump head prematurely-The nut? Switch up filling approach then
    5. Weakens stem at tube, can allow valve to tear and tube resulting in a flat-10 years have not run across this issue
    Next?
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

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