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  1. #1
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Polymer Berd Spokes

    Haven't seen these talked about anywhere. Interesting concept...

    Berd Spokes | Home

    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  2. #2
    Barely in control
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    People have tried these for the last twenty years. The weak points are the threaded interface and abrasion resistance. I'm not sure I trust them because the front page of their website sets off my BS meter.

    "Metals spokes have a finite fatigue life and will eventually fail. Since PolyLight spokes are constructed from a polymer, they don't have this inherent weakness"

    BS

    "PolyLight Spokes are easier to build wheels with because the viscoelastic properties of the polymer build tension more slowly than stainless steel. This makes it easier for wheel builders to get wheels perfectly tuned."

    lol, whatever. If they are reaching this far to come up with another benefit I don't trust them.

    No mention of aerodynamics, but it must be similar to Mavics aluminum spokes, which is poor.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    People have tried these for the last twenty years. The weak points are the threaded interface and abrasion resistance. I'm not sure I trust them because the front page of their website sets off my BS meter.

    "Metals spokes have a finite fatigue life and will eventually fail. Since PolyLight spokes are constructed from a polymer, they don't have this inherent weakness"

    BS

    "PolyLight Spokes are easier to build wheels with because the viscoelastic properties of the polymer build tension more slowly than stainless steel. This makes it easier for wheel builders to get wheels perfectly tuned."

    lol, whatever. If they are reaching this far to come up with another benefit I don't trust them.

    No mention of aerodynamics, but it must be similar to Mavics aluminum spokes, which is poor.
    These are a neat idea, but there are some issues with dyneema (the trade name for this rope) it has high strength, but it does creep (stretch) once you get the loading around 50% of the break strength. In a road wheel its ok I guess, but with the dynamics involved in a MTB I think you would have shock loadings that would induce some creep and therefore loss of tension.

  4. #4
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    People have tried these for the last twenty years. The weak points are the threaded interface and abrasion resistance. I'm not sure I trust them because the front page of their website sets off my BS meter.

    "Metals spokes have a finite fatigue life and will eventually fail. Since PolyLight spokes are constructed from a polymer, they don't have this inherent weakness"

    BS

    "PolyLight Spokes are easier to build wheels with because the viscoelastic properties of the polymer build tension more slowly than stainless steel. This makes it easier for wheel builders to get wheels perfectly tuned."

    lol, whatever. If they are reaching this far to come up with another benefit I don't trust them.

    No mention of aerodynamics, but it must be similar to Mavics aluminum spokes, which is poor.
    No arguments there. Just thought it was interesting.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  5. #5
    Formerly of Kent
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    Are these the MTB equivalent of Lightweight?

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  6. #6
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    We'll look back at threads like this in the future and laugh at the doubt. Just like we do now about carbon frames, and rims.

    Not saying they solved it, but nothing about a non metal spoke is too weird.

    I'd build with more weird spokes if it wasn't cost prohibitive. I'd use those spokes if they were $1.50 at the most.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    We'll look back at threads like this in the future and laugh at the doubt. Just like we do now about carbon frames, and rims.

    Not saying they solved it, but nothing about a non metal spoke is too weird.

    I'd build with more weird spokes if it wasn't cost prohibitive. I'd use those spokes if they were $1.50 at the most.
    Not laughing; LWs are incredibly wheels.

    But, unless you're molding these to a hub and rim, I think spoke lengths are going to be hard to keep consistent.

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  8. #8
    Just a flesh wound
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    Spinergy has had the PBO spokes forever.
    My name is Chris and I ride a Prophet 650b with a Lefty.

  9. #9
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    It's an interesting concept. It's always good to push the envelope on design even if the experiment does not lead to a successful product. A viscoelastic material has inherent hysteresis so I'm not sure how much this will affect the tension and performance over many cycles. I'd like to see a video of the wheel construction and reviews on the wheels.

  10. #10
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    Leave my sailboat technology alone.
    I don't know about the 50% rule but it can take massive load.
    I remember when I replaced my toron shrouds by UHMWPE fibres. It was a first stressfull week sailing.

  11. #11
    Ole
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post

    "PolyLight Spokes are easier to build wheels with because the viscoelastic properties of the polymer build tension more slowly than stainless steel. This makes it easier for wheel builders to get wheels perfectly tuned."
    I take this to mean the spokes are a lot more flexible, giving a lot flexier wheel. It doesn't matter that you can tensinon them to hell and back if they are not stiff. More tension doesn't alter the spring rate.

  12. #12
    Ole
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    I've contacted them for some more info on attachment, max tension and stiffness. Interesting concept, but remains to be seen if they actually work as well as steel spokes.

  13. #13
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    Lamere are buliding fat bike wheels with those. looking forward to read a review about how they roll.
    https://www.lamerecycles.com/wheels

  14. #14
    because GIANT
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    500 bucks for two wheels worth ? pass.


    cost of all that fiber is like 12 cents per foot of 12 strand dyneema rope

    after making it into a proper spoke
    this probably is the correct cost what they are charging 8 bucks per spoke.

    expensive though
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  15. #15
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    Talk about a real revolution. Funk boost. This is what I'm talking about.
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  16. #16
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    "A fool and his money are soon parted." Did PT Barnum say that?


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  17. #17
    Formerly of Kent
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDee View Post
    "A fool and his money are soon parted." Did PT Barnum say that?


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    Aren’t you the one who doesn’t understand how wheels work?


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  18. #18
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    I have a degree in mechanical engineering. What's your claim to fame?


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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDee View Post
    I have a degree in mechanical engineering. What's your claim to fame?


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    My brother has a degree in mechanical engineering and he sucks as bike mechanic. I have to teach him basic things like how to adjust a headset properly. I guess that's why he ended up as a project manager. SMH.....
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDee View Post
    I have a degree in mechanical engineering. What's your claim to fame?


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    Great. Do you understand that beyond initial tension, as in taking the slack out of spokes, tension has next to no bearing on the lateral stiffness of a wheel?


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  21. #21
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    Polymer Berd Spokes

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Great. Do you understand that beyond initial tension, as in taking the slack out of spokes, tension has next to no bearing on the lateral stiffness of a wheel.
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    Correct. My concern with these spokes is that the wheel isn't nearly as stiff as one built with stainless spokes. Could you potato chip/taco a wheel built with these spokes more easily from a side load than one built with stainless steel spokes? I suspect yes. I'd like to see a test of wheels in a load test machine to see how they compare strength wise.




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  22. #22
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    I'm a fan of new products but this seems like a really bad idea. Why not just use revolutions/lasers? And most wheelbuilders already don't want to use those because of windup/flex/weakness to foreign objects.

  23. #23
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    I'am out, whayyyy to many ningineer per post.

  24. #24
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    8 bucks a spoke makes them a non-starter for me. Interesting concept though.

  25. #25
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    As a non mechanical engineer I have several concerns and questions.

    Compared to steel (or aluminum) how much more does this material stretch when tensioned? For the stiffest wheel I would imagine it would have to be close to zero. And in order to achieve desired tension, will it require more tension on the rims and nipples?

    Second, how are the nipple facing screws fastened to the material? This would probably affect many factors including stretch and durability of the spokes. Does turning the screws turn the spoke?

    Finally how much tension is needed to keep the wheels stiff and true?

    I have high hopes for something like these spokes. I think it has potential. I think theoretically they could achieve similar performance with steel spokes.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Great. Do you understand that beyond initial tension, as in taking the slack out of spokes, tension has next to no bearing on the lateral stiffness of a wheel?


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    That's a good point (can't believe I'm agreeing with you) and this is what I discussed over at G+ and we can all agree that the tensile strength is stronger but like carbon surface strength sucks . Stiffness isn't an issue as a few have already built them up and states they are solid . Lateral strength is weak as they are not a fully rigid material so again like carbon one way is strong, another way is weak . TBH I will still get these to try them out but my titanium spokes are 3.1grams and the Pillar Xtra Lite spokes are 2.5 grams so not far off .

  27. #27
    1 by 1 pixel?
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    Untill there's some information, these seem to be aimed at fatbike / snow wheels..

    • Maximum tension specification for MTB wheels? carbon MTB rims only??

    • "Berd"-to-threaded spoke, what's the mechanical connection?
    All barks have been rendered into english...

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