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  1. #1
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    Upset Please help with sealant!

    Hello everyone! I just recently went tubless on my trek about 2 weeks ago. I currently have tiago tires on. I live in Miami fl where it is hot and humid but I keep my bike indoors. I just installed a new handle bar stem and as I was test riding outside on a flat surface I jumped a speed bump( very small) I heard a noise on My back tire which sounded like a flat, as I went to check my tire was almost flat and I was leaking sealant everywhere. I inspected the tire and notice no damage what so ever.

    I then quickly filled my tire with air and notice my valve stem was loose and more sealant leaked out. After I tighten it I filled my tire with an air compressor and it seemed to do the trick. My tire is still filled with air and seems to be ok. I'm guessing it came off the beads or something I don't know I have not been to the trails but I'm scared to go, my question is should I replace the sealant the leaked out with more???? Or is there something else going on??

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    ....I suspect that you popped the bead on the tire for an instant (burped it) and had some air and sealant escape. This is not uncommon with certain tire-wheel combinations. I don't know anything about your wheels, Tiago tires or how you set them up tubeless, but I would look at how well seated those beads are.

    A great source of info on going tubeless is on 'Stan's No Tubes' website. While they obviously are trying to sell their tubeless kits you can learn some of the things that can wrong by watching a few of their videos.

    And yes, you can add back the missing sealant and air but I suspect it will happen again....check out the videos. Good luck.

    Bill J,

  3. #3
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    Thanks

    Thank u very much.. Will look into it

  4. #4
    Trail Tire TV on blogger
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    ya,.. sounds like you burped it. Guessing your not using true tubeless tire and rim but a conversion? some tire/rim combo's you'll need to keep the pressure up a tad to prevent burping. The good thing is after a few they start to happen less and less as the sealant gets between the tire and rim and kinda glues it.

    add more sealant after a burp as you loose a large amount. Hopefully you have a removable core stem and can use a syringe and small piece of tube in inject the sealant. Popping the bead just makes it harder to keep it locked. If you take the air out to inject the new sealant and the bead pops free of the rim you're going to have a higher burp rate than many and will generally need to keep the tire pressure above the 30ish range.
    Going to try and bring Trail Tire TV back. go take a look... http://trailtiretv.blogspot.com/

  5. #5
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    My advice is dont even bother with tubeless unless you're willing to go with proper UST or UST equivalent rims and tires. If you burped over a speed bump at anything remotely resembling a normal tire pressure, its a strong warning sign that whatever you're running is not working well together. That could be very dangerous to you on the trail. Experimenting with different tires can be almost as expensive as putting together proper UST running gear. And even if you get luck and manage to find a conversion that's relatively stable, you're not likely to get the same level of performance as true UST.

  6. #6
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    @ metamorphic.. Ok My trek fuel 9.7 fuel carbon has dt Swiss tubless compatible rims. I bought these after market tires called tioga USA tires and come to realize my tires are not tubeless ready.even tho some how the bike store manage to covert them somehow, so I just placed a tube in my tire in the rear and going to place a tube in the front. My question why was it working while I was hitting the trails for a few weeks?? What do u recommend because I want to ride tubeless mainly because I ride at a lower psi given me traction and if u know anything about Miami most the trails are very very sandy due to being by the costal shoreline??? I really do appreciate all your guys help.. I love this forum stuff...

  7. #7
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    Jmo - you should be able to set up tubeless without any problem. If your wheels are Tubeless Compatible that means you can set them up with UST tires without using any sealant. The rim beads are UST standard, meaning they will work with UST tires. You can also use non-UST tires without a problem, though you may need Stan's tape to add some tighter seal on the bead, and you will need to use sealant to seal a non-UST or tubeless ready tire.

    Based on your description, it sounds like you had a valve stem that was not completely tight on the rim, you were probably losing air slowly over time and your little jump was enough to finally break the bead. Make sure everything is tight, add more sealant, fill the tire until you hear the beads snap onto the rim, then go ride. Adjust the air pressure to the PSI you want after you have confirmed a good seal and no leaks. TCS and Stan's tubeless set ups work just as well as UST.
    When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. ~H.G. Wells

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    @cutthroat, ok so ur telling me that those tioga tires that I have on that are not tubeless ready can be used tubeless. The dude at the bike shop told me that there not and what will happen is u will lose air as time goes on and will need to purchase more sealant being cost effective... So great I just removed my sealant and my tape for what??? Should I just purchase Stan's no tube or just return these tires and buy some that are tubeless ready UST

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jmo1413 View Post
    @cutthroat, ok so ur telling me that those tioga tires that I have on that are not tubeless ready can be used tubeless. The dude at the bike shop told me that there not and what will happen is u will lose air as time goes on and will need to purchase more sealant being cost effective... So great I just removed my sealant and my tape for what??? Should I just purchase Stan's no tube or just return these tires and buy some that are tubeless ready UST
    The whole idea behind Stan's and other sealants is to use "regular" (i.e., non-UST or non-Tubeless Ready) tires and make them run tubeless. Now having said that, some "regular" tires work better with Stan's than others and some have better fitting beads. I don't know about your Tiogas, but with any sealant in a "regular" tire you will need to add more sealant periodically because it dries up over time (depending on heat, usage and other variables). You will also need to keep them aired up, but that's true for all tires. I suspect you can get things set up again and use the Tiogas w/o much trouble, but if it's a hassle for you, a UST or TR tire will be much easier. I would still advise running some sealant though if you have thorns or cactus or other sharpies to deal with. The prior tip to visit Stan's website is a good one - the videos are quite helpful. Either way, going tubeless is real bonus IMO - good luck
    When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. ~H.G. Wells

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by cutthroat View Post
    The whole idea behind Stan's and other sealants is to use "regular" (i.e., non-UST or non-Tubeless Ready) tires and make them run tubeless. Now having said that, some "regular" tires work better with Stan's than others and some have better fitting beads. I don't know about your Tiogas, but with any sealant in a "regular" tire you will need to add more sealant periodically because it dries up over time (depending on heat, usage and other variables). You will also need to keep them aired up, but that's true for all tires. I suspect you can get things set up again and use the Tiogas w/o much trouble, but if it's a hassle for you, a UST or TR tire will be much easier. I would still advise running some sealant though if you have thorns or cactus or other sharpies to deal with. The prior tip to visit Stan's website is a good one - the videos are quite helpful. Either way, going tubeless is real bonus IMO - good luck
    "Regular" may refer to two things - casing, and bead. You obviously need sealant for "regular" casing, but I see nothing bad with getting UST beads, which seems what most "tubeless-ready" tires are about. I would not use a "regular" bead with tubeless any more. More hassle and more trial-and-error results.

  11. #11
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    OK Jmo1413,.. here's the thing...

    there are basically 4 classes basically..
    UST which is tubeless, you get a tire and rim that are UST and you don't even need sealant.. (though it helps against flats from punctures) UST will be the most reliable tubeless setup, but are on the heavy side.. UST is also a patented "name brand" so you'll find few companies who use it or else you'll find a tad of a added price to the item. (think it's Mavic and Hutchinson that owe it jointly...? but don't quote me on that)

    Tubeless ready these will have the bead on the rim and/or the tire that locks better but the tire will need sealant as the inner skin isn't air tight, and the rim will most likely need some sort of "tape" and stem... some tubeless ready rims have a hard plastic rim strip that is air tight that can be had from them Tubeless ready is going to give you the best weight-to- reliability but again, has to still run

    converted or Getto these are just regular tires and rims that you add some kinda setup in the rim (gorilla tape and stem, Stan's conversion kit, or split tube) and use any old basic tire and add sealant to keep it air tight. Some tire and rim combo's don't work well together, but with a bit of research here and other online places, it's pretty easy to find what works as it's been done for some time now (it's what I use)

    Regular just any tire and rim with a tube

    you can also mix and match... UST rim with "tubeless ready" tires and sealant is a pretty common one as it's reliable bead "lock" but still get the mid to light weight tires.

    the only tire I've found that absolutely can't be done tubeless has been old wire beaded tires (thou I've heard people have done it with the split tube method of getto setup)

    No matter what setup you have, you'd been smart to add sealant if you want to avoid flats. And all of them will need the sealant checked and/or cleaned every few months-6 months to keep it performing correctly as the stuff dries up and can also cause the dreaded "Stan's ameba" which happens when something gets inside and rolls around in the sealant and builds up (think sand in oyster that turns into a pearl)

    what you have will work tubeless with sealant,.. the beads probably don't lock well so you will need to keep the air a tad higher than some like (again, around 30lbs) or you could burp like you have. Just keep an eye on it, check tire pressure quickly before rides just like you should be even with tubes and you'll be good to go.
    Going to try and bring Trail Tire TV back. go take a look... http://trailtiretv.blogspot.com/

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphic View Post
    My advice is dont even bother with tubeless unless you're willing to go with proper UST or UST equivalent rims and tires. If you burped over a speed bump at anything remotely resembling a normal tire pressure, its a strong warning sign that whatever you're running is not working well together. That could be very dangerous to you on the trail. Experimenting with different tires can be almost as expensive as putting together proper UST running gear. And even if you get luck and manage to find a conversion that's relatively stable, you're not likely to get the same level of performance as true UST.
    A tubeless ready tire and rim gives just a reliable a set up as UST.
    Geologist by trade...bicycle mechanic (former) by the grace of God!

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiGeo View Post
    A tubeless ready tire and rim gives just a reliable a set up as UST.
    That's why I said UST or UST equivalent.

    I'm currently running Schwalabe tubeless ready tires on WTB Frequency "TCS" rims. With these tires and rims the beads snap in an out with authority. I've run them as low as 9 pounds with no burping; huge rim damage potential at this pressure. But I can easily and safely ride around at pressures in the high teens and low 20's. Despite all kinds of abuse and lack of attention to pressures this combo has never failed in any way. These will go together with a floor pump as soon as you've taken the fold out of the bead of a new tire.

    My son's bike has a Stans rim with a Specialized 2Bliss tire. That rim kind of snaps together with the tire but not like with the frequency rims. You can run pressures into the low 20's safely, but I would not go into the teens with that setup. The stans gear will go together with a floor pump.

    My younger son's bike had DT rims with 2bliss tires and stans rim strips. That setup is stable in the mid-20's, but that's with a 12 year old on board. He's burped these tires several times when he didnt check his pressure and ended up on the trail a few pounds low. Your odds of getting this combo to inflate without a compressor or C02 is nil.

    Prior to Frequency rims on my bike I was running DT 550 rims with 2Bliss tires. The pressures I was able to achieve were no lower than those I had to run with tubes to prevent pinch flatting (mid to upper 20's). Really all I was getting with this setup with thorn resistance. Both front and rear tires with that setup burped out at different times on off camber trail dumping me. These DT conversions would not inflate with a floor pump.

    After experimenting with all these different tires and rims, I've come to the conclusion that the only way to do it right is with UST or UST equivalents (like TCS). Stan's system is "ok", but you're not going to get the low low pressures. Kinda low, but now low low. The reason I dont recommend the Stans is because the tight bead rim fit presents issues with wheel tension (do a search here), and mounting and dismounting tires in the field is a challenge that many weaker, smaller, riders are not going to be able to manage.

    Plus or minus $20 per rim or tire or whatever, all this gear costs the same. If you're going to do it, it makes sense to do it right and not waste money trying to find a magic combo that works.

    If the OP's primary reason for going tubeless is to get super low pressures for floating on sand, one of the make do systems is not going to be satisfying. What he needs is exactly the UST/TCS compatible systems with sealant, and high volume tires. Probably 29'er too.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jmo1413 View Post
    Hello everyone! I just recently went tubless on my trek about 2 weeks ago. I currently have tiago tires on. I live in Miami fl where it is hot and humid but I keep my bike indoors. I just installed a new handle bar stem and as I was test riding outside on a flat surface I jumped a speed bump( very small) I heard a noise on My back tire which sounded like a flat, as I went to check my tire was almost flat and I was leaking sealant everywhere. I inspected the tire and notice no damage what so ever.

    I then quickly filled my tire with air and notice my valve stem was loose and more sealant leaked out. After I tighten it I filled my tire with an air compressor and it seemed to do the trick. My tire is still filled with air and seems to be ok. I'm guessing it came off the beads or something I don't know I have not been to the trails but I'm scared to go, my question is should I replace the sealant the leaked out with more???? Or is there something else going on??

    Thanks
    i told you not to ghetto rig it!

  15. #15
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    Thanks for the input heck08.. That was a great help. Lol

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