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  1. #1
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    Pacenti TL28*29er

    Just received these to replace the 355s on my Industry 9 Ultralites. Ordered them on Thursday and they were on my porch the following Tuesday. I should have them laced up and get a ride in on them this weekend.






  2. #2
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    Sweet!. I am going be ordering a couple pairs in the coming weeks. Please post a review once you get them laced up.
    Whiskey

  3. #3
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    Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on these rims.

    Cheers,
    Mike

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    Me too. These should be a massive hit if the durability is decent.

  5. #5
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    The look awesome, I looking forward to seeing long term durability and ease of tubeless setup.

  6. #6
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    Ordered a set of Pacenti TL28 with Hadley hubs 29er wheelset. Should get it in a few weeks. Hope the rims are at least as durable as the Arch.

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    Couple rides on my front rim. Much stiffer than a crest, which is what I was looking for.

    But I have crazy clicking from the joint sleeve of the rim moving around, like a mavic reflex from back in the day times five. I am going to drip some glue in there eventually to stick it down, I would advise this as a preventative measure when building up a wheel.

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    Building the wheels up couldn't have been easier.

    Mounting a Rocket Ron 2.25 up front went smoothly and probably could have used a floor pump. Mounting an Ikon 3C EXC (Non EXO) on the rear was a bit more difficult since the Ikon has very flexible sidewalls and beads. I had put a tube in it first and leave one bead in place so that I only had to get the one bead in place with air. I finally got it to pop in place to realize I mounted it backwards, duh. Since I had the Ikon off, I decided to try a Bontrager XDX TLR 2.1. The bonty aired right up, no problem. I reinstalled the Ikon and added sealant to get both wheels ready for this weekend. Neither tire lost any air overnight but they were both partially sealed from previous use. If the Ikon gives me issues I am going to have to find a new rear tire because I am sure its not the rim fault.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilarider View Post
    Couple rides on my front rim. Much stiffer than a crest, which is what I was looking for.

    But I have crazy clicking from the joint sleeve of the rim moving around, like a mavic reflex from back in the day times five. I am going to drip some glue in there eventually to stick it down, I would advise this as a preventative measure when building up a wheel.
    Is this normal? Bad? I don't think I have heard of this happening before.
    Whiskey

  10. #10
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    1st ride update coming shortly, otw home from the trail.


    Simonns,
    I had this problem with the stans 355s I replaced, drove me bonkers. I looked it up and it seems to have been common with earlier stans and the recommended fix was to drip some glue in at the rim seam to hold it. Its not structural, its just there to hold the 2 ends of the rim in place for welding.

    I do not have any noises coming from my Pacenti's and I didn't do anything to mine. Time will tell but, I don't think it will be an issue.
    Last edited by WrecklessREX; 01-15-2012 at 05:16 PM.

  11. #11
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    This is my first review so bare with me and feel free to ask any questions.

    I'm using these on a Scott Scale Elite (L) with a Reba RL and Shimano QR skewers.

    I set these Pacenti's up tubeless with Stan's 25mm tape, just like I have with the Stan's and Sun Ringle wheels I have. I weigh 180lbs so, I set the front Rocket Ron at 24psi and the rear Ikon at 27psi and hit the trail, I will drop the pressures some on the next ride. My first impression was that the bike felt more lively and in contact with the ground. Rolling over roots and through ruts that ran along with the trail I didn't notice and flex or feel pushed off track, the wheels held their ground. On a few 1-2 foot drop off I hurdled off of the landings were secure even when it was a bit sideways. This is when I was expecting a burp or squirm from the tires but nothing of that nature happened.

    High speed cornering, the wheels tracked right over any rocks or roots that were in my line and no deflection was noticed. I used to feel the rear wheel quiver coming out of fast turns but not anymore, not with these rims.

    Overall, I am impressed and glad I bought these despite the lack of info and reviews. The 355s these replaced had hairline cracks around a few nipple holes that were hard to spot behind the rims stickers. The TL28 has eyelets so that isn't going to be an issue now. I added 70 grams total to my Industry 9 Ultralite wheelset and it was worth every bit of it. The added stiffness and width nullify the weight that was added by a long shot. I guess they are not technically Ultralites any longer but they are stout everything I wanted in a wheelset.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by WrecklessREX View Post




    This is my first review so bare with me and feel free to ask any questions.

    I'm using these on a Scott Scale Elite (L) with a Reba RL and Shimano QR skewers.

    I set these Pacenti's up tubeless with Stan's 25mm tape, just like I have with the Stan's and Sun Ringle wheels I have. I weigh 180lbs so, I set the front Rocket Ron at 24psi and the rear Ikon at 27psi and hit the trail, I will drop the pressures some on the next ride. My first impression was that the bike felt more lively and in contact with the ground. Rolling over roots and through ruts that ran along with the trail I didn't notice and flex or feel pushed off track, the wheels held their ground. On a few 1-2 foot drop off I hurdled off of the landings were secure even when it was a bit sideways. This is when I was expecting a burp or squirm from the tires but nothing of that nature happened.

    High speed cornering, the wheels tracked right over any rocks or roots that were in my line and no deflection was noticed. I used to feel the rear wheel quiver coming out of fast turns but not anymore, not with these rims.

    Overall, I am impressed and glad I bought these despite the lack of info and reviews. The 355s these replaced had hairline cracks around a few nipple holes that were hard to spot behind the rims stickers. The TL28 has eyelets so that isn't going to be an issue now. I added 70 grams total to my Industry 9 Ultralite wheelset and it was worth every bit of it. The added stiffness and width nullify the weight that was added by a long shot. I guess they are not technically Ultralites any longer but they are stout everything I wanted in a wheelset.

    Great review, thanks for that!
    Whiskey

  13. #13
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    Yes, thanks for the review. I'm considering these in the 650b size vs Stan's Crest rims. I like the fact that they have eyelets. Anyone know the recommended spoke tension?

  14. #14
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    Kirk recommended a tension of 100kgf for the 26" rim. I don't know if it would be the same for the bigger hoops though

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    That seems low?
    I am immune to your disdain.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by WrecklessREX View Post




    This is my first review so bare with me and feel free to ask any questions.

    I'm using these on a Scott Scale Elite (L) with a Reba RL and Shimano QR skewers.

    I set these Pacenti's up tubeless with Stan's 25mm tape, just like I have with the Stan's and Sun Ringle wheels I have. I weigh 180lbs so, I set the front Rocket Ron at 24psi and the rear Ikon at 27psi and hit the trail, I will drop the pressures some on the next ride. My first impression was that the bike felt more lively and in contact with the ground. Rolling over roots and through ruts that ran along with the trail I didn't notice and flex or feel pushed off track, the wheels held their ground. On a few 1-2 foot drop off I hurdled off of the landings were secure even when it was a bit sideways. This is when I was expecting a burp or squirm from the tires but nothing of that nature happened.

    High speed cornering, the wheels tracked right over any rocks or roots that were in my line and no deflection was noticed. I used to feel the rear wheel quiver coming out of fast turns but not anymore, not with these rims.

    Overall, I am impressed and glad I bought these despite the lack of info and reviews. The 355s these replaced had hairline cracks around a few nipple holes that were hard to spot behind the rims stickers. The TL28 has eyelets so that isn't going to be an issue now. I added 70 grams total to my Industry 9 Ultralite wheelset and it was worth every bit of it. The added stiffness and width nullify the weight that was added by a long shot. I guess they are not technically Ultralites any longer but they are stout everything I wanted in a wheelset.
    Thank you for the great review. I have an I9 Enduro wheelset being built with these rims. They should be here in a few weeks. Just curious about the spoke tension you used. What is it at with the I9 aluminum spokes?
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    That's what I thought also, but he confirmed the numbers. I was going to lace them at a higher tension, but he recommended against it. I have not built them yet though...been too busy.

  18. #18
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    indyfab25,

    100kgf is right on with I9s build up and retensioning instructions.

    INDUSTRY NINE : : : - manuals



    I put another great ride in on my wheels. Its nice to not have to baby my wheels any more. I used to blame the 9mm QR for being flexy but, all that is gone with the new rims and they are the only change I made. I got on the scale yesterday and I weigh 190lbs even, in my PJs. I guess I have been in denial since the holidays.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WrecklessREX View Post
    indyfab25,

    100kgf is right on with I9s build up and retensioning instructions.

    INDUSTRY NINE : : : - manuals



    I put another great ride in on my wheels. Its nice to not have to baby my wheels any more. I used to blame the 9mm QR for being flexy but, all that is gone with the new rims and they are the only change I made. I got on the scale yesterday and I weigh 190lbs even, in my PJs. I guess I have been in denial since the holidays.
    I9s spokes are round aluminum 2.54mm correct? According the Park conversion table that equates to a reading of 18 on the Park tensiometer. I9s recommendation would be off the chart for that spoke. I am probably missing something here and very confused. Just trying to noodle through it...
    I just read the I9 manual again...seems their spokes are very unique.
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  20. #20
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    I9 has different spokes for the different wheelsets but each listed with the park tension meters reading.

    It is 27-28 on the park tension meter. I'm not a pro wheelbuilder at all but it was fairly easy following the I9s manuals.

  21. #21
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    Gotcha. Thanks!
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  22. #22
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    What material does the rim use? If it's anything like the Velocity P35's then I think it would be too soft for my tastes.

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    They are made by Sun if I am not mistaken. They should not be like Velocity rims.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by WrecklessREX View Post
    It is 27-28 on the park tension meter.
    That sounds about right, not low by any means. I've got an I9 Enduro/355 29" wheelset and that's as high as I go on the tension. I take it the TL28 has the same ERD as the 355 so it was an easy swap?

    That extra 4mm inner rim width must really make a difference- the 2.25 Rocket Rons look nice and plump in the pics!
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by miles e View Post
    That sounds about right, not low by any means. I've got an I9 Enduro/355 29" wheelset and that's as high as I go on the tension. I take it the TL28 has the same ERD as the 355 so it was an easy swap?

    That extra 4mm inner rim width must really make a difference- the 2.25 Rocket Rons look nice and plump in the pics!
    Same ERD as the 355, 604mm. I don't think it could've been easier! On spoke removal of the 355s I had to work a few spokes back and forth to break them loose to keep from twisting them to much. I also set each spoke down in the order they came out so that I could put them back in the same holes on the hub that they came out of. Probably an unnecessary step. Other than those two things I followed I9s lace up and build up manual which, I basicly had memorized by the time I ordered the rims.

    The extra 4mm in width was the main reason I started looking at the Pacenti. Flow width and lighter that the arch! The extra comfort and traction is there for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WrecklessREX View Post
    Same ERD as the 355, 604mm. I don't think it could've been easier! On spoke removal of the 355s I had to work a few spokes back and forth to break them loose to keep from twisting them to much. I also set each spoke down in the order they came out so that I could put them back in the same holes on the hub that they came out of. Probably an unnecessary step. Other than those two things I followed I9s lace up and build up manual which, I basicly had memorized by the time I ordered the rims.

    The extra 4mm in width was the main reason I started looking at the Pacenti. Flow width and lighter that the arch! The extra comfort and traction is there for sure.
    My thoughts as well. I get the sense that the I9 wheels would make the rims feel stiffer than they really are. I was hoping, anyway. Thoughts?
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by indyfab25 View Post
    My thoughts as well. I get the sense that the I9 wheels would make the rims feel stiffer than they really are. I was hoping, anyway. Thoughts?
    I think it makes the I9s feel as stiff as they really are. The 355s always felt flexy and it wasn't until I got my Sun Ringle Charger Experts for my rigid SS that I realized how stiff wheels should feel. I remember when I bought my I9s, the mechanic said the wheels would be stiff enough and I wouldn't need to upgrade to a thru axle. It wasn't till I laced up the TL28 and hit the trail that I actually felt that way. I'm sure some of that feeling has to do with the width of the rim keeping the tires more stable and resisting squirm but, that's exactly what I was looking for in a lighter weight rim than the flow.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by CupOfJava View Post
    What material does the rim use? If it's anything like the Velocity P35's then I think it would be too soft for my tastes.
    Are Velocity rims softer than Stan's? And by soft, do you mean able to be dented or develop flat spots? What do those manuf.'s use in comparison to Pacenti/Sun (are we talking 7000 vs 6000 series alloy)?

    If the Pacenti's are softer than Stan's, that'd be a deal breaker. I haven't had any issues developing cracks at the nipple holes, but I do get a lot of flat spots on my Stan's (Arches and Flows).
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  29. #29
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    Well the P35's I have are noticeably softer than my Stans. I'm not sure how to describe the feel, but if you tap on the rims you'll notice a very light hollow feeling as opposed to a more solid dense feel from Stans and other rims I've used.

  30. #30
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    I can confirm the difference between the Stan's and Velocity's - I built a Velocity DYAD for my commuter bike and can feel/hear that the material is not as dense as the Arch and Flow I have. But I haven't rocked it enough yet to weigh in on it's durability (although that's what I bought it for). There also seems to be more of a grain to the Velocity DYAD? This may just be because it's not anodized...
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    Both Stans and Pacenti use 6061 alloy and both have it stated right on the wheels stickers. Not sure what Velocity uses?

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    I see that the new WTB Frequency rims use a 7000 series aluminum alloy, so they should be "harder" than these rims. I think of 7000 series aluminum frames as being able to be lighter than 6000 series, but maybe in rim extrusions there are different considerations?
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  33. #33
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    I just received my wheels built up with TL28 hoops.
    Front American Classic 15mm hub: 790g
    Rear DT240s: 920g
    Weight includes stans tape, valves, DT Swiss 2.0/1.8 spokes and alloy nips.
    I'll post up thoughts after I ride them this weekend - comparing to my old wheels, Flow front (20mm) and Arch rear.

  34. #34
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    29er TL28's on there way. I'll post lots of tire comparison pics against the ZTR Crest, and rim comparisons once I get them built up, and of course a review!
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  35. #35
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    where did people get the idea that 100kgf is low?

    those rims look nice. they seem to fill a pretty sweet niche with wide+light, if the tubelessness werx
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  36. #36
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    I have a few hundred miles on mine and still haven't burped a tire yet. Using stan's yellow tape and valves. I was only easy on them for the first few miles and now I hit 2-3' drops to flat without worry. I pulled the tires off and remounted them and the ikon that was difficult to air up the first time aired much easier the this go around. They have been holding up great for me.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by WrecklessREX View Post
    I have a few hundred miles on mine and still haven't burped a tire yet. Using stan's yellow tape and valves. I was only easy on them for the first few miles and now I hit 2-3' drops to flat without worry. I pulled the tires off and remounted them and the ikon that was difficult to air up the first time aired much easier the this go around. They have been holding up great for me.
    Great to hear, mine just arrived in the mail yesterday and they look pretty nice. Just waiting on spokes and valves to come in the mail and then it will be time to start building!!

    Edit: the weights are 440 and 442
    Last edited by Simonns; 02-17-2012 at 11:06 AM.
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by flash278 View Post
    I just received my wheels built up with TL28 hoops.
    Front American Classic 15mm hub: 790g
    Rear DT240s: 920g
    Weight includes stans tape, valves, DT Swiss 2.0/1.8 spokes and alloy nips.
    I'll post up thoughts after I ride them this weekend - comparing to my old wheels, Flow front (20mm) and Arch rear.
    Weights sound about right when cross referenced to the weight of the American Classic 29er AM wheelset, similar build to yours.

    I've been scouring the internet for some good reviews of these new Pacenti TL28 rims and am subscribed to this thread. Trying to decide between building a set of wheels with these rims and the Hope Pro 2 Evo hubs, or just getting a set of the American Classic 29er AM wheels. The American Classic rims sound similar to the Pacenti TL28, but I have some concerns about the durability of the super light American Classic hubs.

    Subscribed to this thread and eagerly awaiting some good, honest reviews after some hard trail riding.

  39. #39
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    I really like mine. Only a week on them but with I9s they are stiff, light and wide. I have Bontrager rim strips in them for bomber tubeless.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Pacenti TL28*29er-p1000587.jpg  

    Pacenti TL28*29er-p1000588.jpg  

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  40. #40
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    double post

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    I was hoping to have a better review by now, but unfortunately I only have about 50 miles on them - 30ish on mostly buff single track and 20ish on night rides.

    I am happy with them so far though. They are lighter than the Flow/Arch combo they replaced and are just as stiff. Ultimately time will tell how the hold up.

    FWIW, the reputable builder was impressed with their width to weight ratio and how well the tension balanced out.

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    How does the stiffness of these compare with the original Stans Arch? Thanks!

  43. #43
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    Hey guys, did a write up on my Pacenti TL28 build. Check it out, ride review to come.

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  44. #44
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    Clicking sound at joint

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilarider View Post
    Couple rides on my front rim. Much stiffer than a crest, which is what I was looking for.

    But I have crazy clicking from the joint sleeve of the rim moving around, like a mavic reflex from back in the day times five. I am going to drip some glue in there eventually to stick it down, I would advise this as a preventative measure when building up a wheel.
    Gilarider - I too have a TL28 rim with a loose pin inside the joint. I have not yet built the rim but can shake the rim and hear it rattle around. I can see how this would be pretty annoying to ride with. I have heard this does not effect the rim structurally as the pin is just there to align the rim for welding. Can you tell me how you got some glue into the joint and were you successful in stopping the noise? Thanks for you help ...

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbf View Post
    Gilarider - I too have a TL28 rim with a loose pin inside the joint. I have not yet built the rim but can shake the rim and hear it rattle around. I can see how this would be pretty annoying to ride with. I have heard this does not effect the rim structurally as the pin is just there to align the rim for welding. Can you tell me how you got some glue into the joint and were you successful in stopping the noise? Thanks for you help ...
    Bummer about the noise. It is a little thing, but it used to drive me crazy on my old Mavic rims. Let us know how the fix goes.

    -D

  46. #46
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    I have the loose pin too, sadly enough it has happened to all my wheels on 3 different bike! Crests, Sun Ringle Chargers and now the Pacentis. The Sun Ringles are the worst as they rattle over bumps even when turning at speed but the Pacenti's only do it during slow rotation and only really notice when walking the bike.

    The stans fix for the loose pin is to drip some glue through the nipple holes inside the rim cavity on each side of the rim joint. Post #8 in this thread Clicking In Stans ZTR Rim I am waiting till I pull the tires on my wheels since I don't want to have to do it just because of the damn sleeve! I think I am going to use gorilla tape instead of stans tape because of the price difference and the fact that I 3 different wheelsets to do. Some luck, huh.

    Also, finally burped a tire on my Pacenti's, I knew it wasn't impossible. It was during a race after a climb and I was just focused on regaining my momentum while navigating through some 1ft sized rocks. I hit a sharp edged rock > square with my front tire and watched the sealant spray out for a split second. It didn't lose much if any pressure though and never had another issue the rest of the day. Its about time to replace the RoRo up front anyways as the sidewalls weep and weep and weep. The Ikon exc in the rear has been flawless, no burps, doesn't weep and will probably be what I replace the RoRo with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbf View Post
    Gilarider - I too have a TL28 rim with a loose pin inside the joint. I have not yet built the rim but can shake the rim and hear it rattle around. I can see how this would be pretty annoying to ride with. I have heard this does not effect the rim structurally as the pin is just there to align the rim for welding. Can you tell me how you got some glue into the joint and were you successful in stopping the noise? Thanks for you help ...
    I am pretty sure I used red loctite dripped in through the inside nipple hole. Works so far.

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    I'm having a pair of these laced to Hope pro 2 evo hubs, SS rear, DT comp spokes. I'd seen them in person in 650b and they looked like quality rims. Same builder as my friend's 650b set. I can't wait!

  49. #49
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    What happened to the 29" rims on the bikelugs.com website? Only the 26" and 650b rims are now listed.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiloman View Post
    What happened to the 29" rims on the bikelugs.com website? Only the 26" and 650b rims are now listed.
    They were on there only a few days ago, must be low or out of stock. Other sites have them in stock.

  51. #51
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    My Build

    I got my TL 28's the other day, Rear wheel is built and tensioned ready for the test ride. The build- King ISO SS rear w/funbolts, Front ISO both 32 hole. Built with straight 14 gauge spokes. Here is a quick picture I took with my phone. Originally I was running I9's laced to Arches. Been having serious trouble with my I9 rear hub so king it is. I need something I can ride and not always be in the shop. So this build is for reliability and function. I hope to give a good review comparing the both etc etc. I don't have a scale so no clue on the weight. As for my bike I roll a Niner A9C built to romp. I'll give my thoughts after I have some miles on em.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Pacenti TL28*29er-photo-12.jpg  


  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by blawson View Post
    They were on there only a few days ago, must be low or out of stock. Other sites have them in stock.
    Who has the 29er's in stock?

    Bikeman and Bikelugs are both out...

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by therooster View Post
    Who has the 29er's in stock?

    Bikeman and Bikelugs are both out...
    They *were* in stock at Bikeman, but not anymore.

    I picked mine up today. TL28*29 + DT comp spokes, AL nipples + hope QR front, hope SS QR rear (using sliders). With tape and stem, real weights were 870g front, 1077g rear, for 1947g total. I do hear a loose pin in both rims when I shake them, but I probably won't hear it over the Hope hub's racket. Gonna mount ignitor front, SB8 rear. First ride tomorrow!

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel~ View Post
    Bummer about the noise. It is a little thing, but it used to drive me crazy on my old Mavic rims. Let us know how the fix goes.

    -D
    The standard fix for the old Mavic rims was to use a punch at the existing indents on each side of the weld to crimp down the insert. Well I just traded emails with Pacenti and they recommend the same fix. They also mentioned dripping some crazy glue or silicon in there through the adjacent spoke holes for added security. I am sure this will take care of the issue, but it is alot easier to do before you build the rim up.

  55. #55
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    I am finishing up rebuilding this Industry Nine Enduro 29er wheelset with new Pacenti TL28*29er rims for a customer in Texas. He was previously riding with ZTR Arch rims, but <s>felt he was overriding them and</s> wanted rims that were wider and <s>stronger</s> stiffer for higher volume tires. This System wheelset uses the proprietary I9 Enduro hubs and oversized aluminum straight pull spokes, but can use any standard rim drilled for spoke nipple use. The spokes are inserted through the spoke holes in the rim and thread into the hub. The rims behaved similarly to ZTR rims when building up, but the eyelets make it easier to get even spoke tensions. The wheels felt solid as I was building them up. I'm looking forward to hearing back from him about how they ride. The rims weighed 438g each.
    Last edited by 4slomo; 04-06-2012 at 09:27 PM. Reason: For some reason, my picture dropped out
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  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4slomo View Post
    He was previously riding with ZTR Arch rims, but felt he was overriding them and wanted rims that were wider and stronger.
    Interesting approach for sure.
    Not many wheelbuilders I know would recommend a significantly lighter rim with less internal structural support for a person that felt they were "overriding" an Arch.
    Out of curiosity (and respect for your knowledge and experience) what gives you the impression that the Pacenti is stronger than the Arch, despite being 15% lighter?
    Is it me, or does that seem like recommending a Crest for the same person, unless I guess you have that much confidence in the ability of eyelets to add strength to a rim (I don't).

    Pacenti:


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    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
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  57. #57
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    I've got to confess that my mind was playing April Fool tricks on me yesterday. After reviewing my notes, I've edited my original post for clarification. The Arch rims gave acceptable performance, but my customer wanted to switch to wider rims and higher volume tires, in a bid to improve his climbing.

    The TL28 has general outside dimensions similar to a Flow rim, but I like the cross section geometry better as it looks like a more efficient allocation of material to me. Building up the TL28, it gave the impression of developing a strength somewhere between that of the Arch and the Flow rims, based on experience with previous wheel builds.

    In my opinion, there are numerous successful rim designs using various materials. My impression is that the TL28 and the ZTR rims use the same or a very similar 6000 series aluminum alloy, based on how they respond to spoke tension adjustments, but the rim design also factors in the response.

    Comparatively, I find the WTB Frequency rims with their milled nipple seats the easiest to adjust spoke tensions, followed by the eyeletted Pacenti TL28, and then followed by the eyeletless ZTR. I do like having eyelets for isolating alloy rims from alloy nipples, or in this case from alloy spoke heads.

    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    Interesting approach for sure.
    Not many wheelbuilders I know would recommend a significantly lighter rim with less internal structural support for a person that felt they were "overriding" an Arch.
    Out of curiosity (and respect for your knowledge and experience) what gives you the impression that the Pacenti is stronger than the Arch, despite being 15% lighter?
    Is it me, or does that seem like recommending a Crest for the same person, unless I guess you have that much confidence in the ability of eyelets to add strength to a rim (I don't).

    Pacenti:


    Arch:
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  58. #58
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    Some have posted that these rims are lighter than the Arch but 1947g for wheel set - is that lighter than an Arch wheel set ?

  59. #59
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    I weighed two Pacenti TL28*29er rims at 438g each. Stans lists the weight for the Arch EX 29er rim at 450g. All other things being equal, a wheelset with the TL28 rims will be 24g lighter than a wheelset with the Arch EX rims. That seems like an insignificant weight advantage to me, but the rim widths aren't comparable.

    Quote Originally Posted by BacDoc View Post
    Some have posted that these rims are lighter than the Arch but 1947g for wheel set - is that lighter than an Arch wheel set ?
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  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by BacDoc View Post
    Some have posted that these rims are lighter than the Arch but 1947g for wheel set - is that lighter than an Arch wheel set ?
    That was the real world weight of my wheelset. I didn't ask the builder to weigh the rims.

    Stan's wheel weight estimator says 450g rims (Arch EX) with this build would come out at 1847g. How do these estimates compare with real world measurements?

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by blawson View Post
    That was the real world weight of my wheelset. I didn't ask the builder to weigh the rims.

    Stan's wheel weight estimator says 450g rims (Arch EX) with this build would come out at 1847g. How do these estimates compare with real world measurements?
    We've seen most of them at 420g.
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    I just finished build a set of TL28's around Hope Pro 2 Evo hubs w/ DT Competition spokes and alloy nips. Weight (with stan's yellow tape) was 793g for the front, 923g for the rear (1716g for the pair) One of the rim's was around 410g, while the other was down around 380g....well below advertised weight. I have built up many pairs of Arches, Crests, and Flows, and these pacenti rims "felt" stiffer overall while I was stress relieving.

    On another note, the TL28's were among the straightest rims out-of-the-box that I have ever built with. As I brought up the tension, I did a little dishing but the wheel needed almost no truing. Much straighter that most of the Stan's I have built with.
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  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by apat13 View Post
    On another note, the TL28's were among the straightest rims out-of-the-box that I have ever built with. As I brought up the tension, I did a little dishing but the wheel needed almost no truing. Much straighter that most of the Stan's I have built with.
    Interesting. Most rims are straighter before you lace them than they will ever be as a built wheel.
    Ric Hjertberg (co-founder of Wheelsmith and author of the Wheel Fanatyk blog) on his extensive measurements of rims:

    "My measurements show that unbuilt, aluminum rims are regularly within 1mm of concentric roundness. Diameter (of a 700C rim) is about 632mm, so that roundness is 1/6 of 1%. And the roundness is smooth so only tiny effort is needed to achieve a perfect wheel. The same case for flatness. Modern rims are within a fraction of a millimeter of perfection."

    link
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    Interesting. Most rims are straighter before you lace them than they will ever be as a built wheel.
    Ric Hjertberg (co-founder of Wheelsmith and author of the Wheel Fanatyk blog) on his extensive measurements of rims:

    "My measurements show that unbuilt, aluminum rims are regularly within 1mm of concentric roundness. Diameter (of a 700C rim) is about 632mm, so that roundness is 1/6 of 1%. And the roundness is smooth so only tiny effort is needed to achieve a perfect wheel. The same case for flatness. Modern rims are within a fraction of a millimeter of perfection."

    link
    Great link, thanks! I always follow the same build procedure so I would like to think I am consistent in my attention and care, but there are so many human variables to add in that it is entirely possible it is all in my head! That said (and this is entirely subjective at this point) in my limited experience with the Pacenti Rim's, and my greater (but still limited...15-20 pairs) experience with Stan's, the Pacenti's have required less truing and less general massaging. The Velocity a-23 is another rim I have had excellent "luck" with in terms of consistently yielding builds that required little truing or rounding....whereas the velocity Dyad has been one that I find consistently needs some extra love.
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  65. #65
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    Customer initial riding impressions: "I have ridden the wheelset 4-times over the past 2-weekends. Very stiff over loose chunk and roots. The biggest difference in ride quality for me is the bike now corners like it is on rails! I find I am getting way more traction in the corners. Can a few mm of extra rim width make that kind of difference?"

    Quote Originally Posted by 4slomo View Post
    I am finishing up rebuilding this Industry Nine Enduro 29er wheelset with new Pacenti TL28*29er rims for a customer in Texas. He was previously riding with ZTR Arch rims, but <s>felt he was overriding them and</s> wanted rims that were wider and <s>stronger</s> stiffer for higher volume tires. This System wheelset uses the proprietary I9 Enduro hubs and oversized aluminum straight pull spokes, but can use any standard rim drilled for spoke nipple use. The spokes are inserted through the spoke holes in the rim and thread into the hub. The rims behaved similarly to ZTR rims when building up, but the eyelets make it easier to get even spoke tensions. The wheels felt solid as I was building them up. I'm looking forward to hearing back from him about how they ride. The rims weighed 438g each.
    Hey everybody, ride my wheels! They ride good, real good.
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  66. #66
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    Any updates on these? Looking at having a set built with Kings.
    "The Truth is Absolution."

  67. #67
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    I got an email from Pacenti today, the TL28*29er rims are still out of stock.

    Quote Originally Posted by evilbullit View Post
    Any updates on these? Looking at having a set built with Kings.
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  68. #68
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    Hi,

    Does anyone else have experience with these rims compared to the previous Stan's Arch? I'm considering putting a pair of the TL28's on my I9's to replace the Arch's

    Everything I've read indicates that these rims build up to a "stiff" wheel, stiffer than one built with an Arch. This surprises me given that the TL28 is ~50g lighter (almost 10% lighter), and is wider as well.

    Looking forward to your feedback!

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4slomo View Post
    I got an email from Pacenti today, the TL28*29er rims are still out of stock.
    Any news on when they should be back in stock? I think I saw somewhere it would be June, is a long time to wait when I've got a nice set of Hope Pro 2 Evo hubs waiting for these rims.

    For those who are lucky enough to have gotten some, what did you do for rim tape/strips? People have reported they pump up pretty easily, what did you use to seal up the spoke holes? Just "yellow tape" and a valve stem? Gorilla Tape? Stan's tubeless strip? Hutchinson Convert Air kit? Something else? I'm pretty frustrated with the tubeless ready mounting process since getting my 2010 Giant XTC 29er 1 rims to air up is such a chore.

  70. #70
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    For those who are lucky enough to have gotten some, what did you do for rim tape/strips?


    I used the Stans yellow tape and it worked alright. What I think I am going to do in the future is either add another layer of the yellow tape, or try something little stronger. The yellow tape is pretty weak and easy to tear on a spoke hole or something.
    Last edited by Simonns; 04-24-2012 at 12:29 PM.
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  71. #71
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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by kiloman View Post
    For those who are lucky enough to have gotten some, what did you do for rim tape/strips? People have reported they pump up pretty easily, what did you use to seal up the spoke holes? Just "yellow tape" and a valve stem? Gorilla Tape? Stan's tubeless strip? Hutchinson Convert Air kit? Something else?
    I have had my wheels since February with quite a few miles on them now. I used the Stans tape and have had zero problems running tubeless. The tires lose a few PSI over a couple of weeks, but that is all.

    The "new-bling-effect" has worn off and I am still very pleased. The wheels spin up quick and still feel light and fast. Some of the trails I ride have steep, tight switchbacks where you can really feel the flex in lesser wheels. The TL28's feel very strong in the switch backs with very litttle flex.

    I'm glad I took a chance with the TL28's and would highly recommend them.

  72. #72
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    I've been riding rims for a little over a month now, and here's what I think. They feel very light and stiff, and I can notice the difference in tire performance through corners and up steeper trail. I do have a few complaints, though. My rim rattles. Where the rim is jointed together there is a piece that cannot be taken out, so you either have to glue it in there, or re pin it yourself, neither I've had success with. I think I recall some older mavic rims having this same problem. Also,if you live in rocky terrain, these rims dent rather easily. Granted I do have a hard tail and ride on the extremely rocky front range trail, I am not happy how many dents I have put into these (around 8). I only weigh 145 pounds, and am running around 25 psi in the rear to prevent dents. If the profile of the rim was shallower, they'd be a lot less dent prone. I think places like the midwest, you would have no problems with dents, it's just Colorado has a lot of jagged rocks.
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  73. #73
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    hi I am getting in to a costum build 240s wheelset and had first set my mind on arch ex rims but kan now get Pacenti tl28 as well (and even 15€ cheaper) and the extre 2mm width and 12-15 gr. weight savings apeals to my

    am looking for a allround xc wheelset for me (185lbs+kit and kind of cautious riding style)
    would they be solid enogh build up with supercomps or sapim d-light or should I play it save and go with dt. comps??

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poetsch View Post
    hi I am getting in to a costum build 240s wheelset and had first set my mind on arch ex rims but kan now get Pacenti tl28 as well (and even 15€ cheaper) and the extre 2mm width and 12-15 gr. weight savings apeals to my

    am looking for a allround xc wheelset for me (185lbs+kit and kind of cautious riding style)
    would they be solid enogh build up with supercomps or sapim d-light or should I play it save and go with dt. comps??
    Supercomps are plenty strong. I have cx Sapim rays on mine. It's really more about how good the wheelbuilder is
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  75. #75
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    I would be weary with the current run Pacenti. As slalomnorth65 mentioned, nearly all of them rattle as there is something inside that's used to weld the rim together comes lose. Pacnetis solution is gluing it back which I wouldn't do.

  76. #76
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    I had Chad from Redbarn build my Pacenti TL28 29er with Hadley Hubs wheelset. Supercomp spokes.

    The front rim was clicking so I used superglue to hold the pin and now it's silent.

    The rims feel stiff and I beat them up for two hours yesterday on very rocky terrain. I'm 180 geared up and have them on my Anthem X29.

    I like the wheelset a lot.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by cfrea View Post
    I would be weary with the current run Pacenti. As slalomnorth65 mentioned, nearly all of them rattle as there is something inside that's used to weld the rim together comes lose. Pacnetis solution is gluing it back which I wouldn't do.
    The "something" is a small alloy block that is used to guide the two ends of the rim together when they weld it into a circle. It rattles around because the punch-divot was not deep enough. After the rim is welded, this little alloy piece serves no purpose whatsoever.

    I pumped a tiny amount of expanding foam into the eyelet closest to the seam and the "problem" was completely eliminated. The only pain in the ass was having to retaped my rims. I consider this to be a minor inconvenience, and I do not think it indicates any problem with the rim itself.

    That being said, I have found my rims to be a bit easy to ding. They have held true thus far, and have an excellent feel, but I would put these in the same category as Crests - racing only type rims. If you go big, they will fail. Every time someone claims to have solved the "pick two" problem, it seems the truth is revealed shortly thereafter.

  78. #78
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    Interesting thread - wonder if Pacenti has the rattling issue sorted .

    Was thinking about getting a new pair of wheels (my Crest aren't very stiff) - Pacenti's or WTB i19's frequency ? Ruled out the WTB i23 frequency rims due to their weight.

  79. #79
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    Many rim manufacturers use this same technique for assembling their rims, it isn't solely a Pacenti issue. It is only an issue if the plate doesn't get adequately pinned down before the welding process. Stans has the same issue with their rims.

    My impression of the TL28 is that it is stiffer than the i19 and not as stiff as the i23. The TL28 is for riding terrain ranging between XC and trail, i.e. not too rough.

    Quote Originally Posted by madskatingcow View Post
    Interesting thread - wonder if Pacenti has the rattling issue sorted .

    Was thinking about getting a new pair of wheels (my Crest aren't very stiff) - Pacenti's or WTB i19's frequency ? Ruled out the WTB i23 frequency rims due to their weight.
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  80. #80
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    I have received some feedback from a shop that the rattling only occured with rims from the first production batch. Don't know if that can be confirmed? They say that they use the superglue anyway just to be sure.

    Is there a weight limit on the Pacenti TL28 rims? I was thinking of having them laced to DT Swiss 240S hubs with Super Competition spokes.

    Regarding the 'softness' of the rim material : are we talking soft like DT Swiss had issues with their 4.1 / 4.2 and 5.1 rims? Or is it the same like Stan's (no issues for me there).

  81. #81
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    Personally, I think they're pretty soft, or it may be that there isn't as much aluminum. I somehow managed to dent the inner part of the rim because a rock flipped up and hit it.

    Quote Originally Posted by madskatingcow View Post
    I have received some feedback from a shop that the rattling only occured with rims from the first production batch. Don't know if that can be confirmed? They say that they use the superglue anyway just to be sure.

    Is there a weight limit on the Pacenti TL28 rims? I was thinking of having them laced to DT Swiss 240S hubs with Super Competition spokes.

    Regarding the 'softness' of the rim material : are we talking soft like DT Swiss had issues with their 4.1 / 4.2 and 5.1 rims? Or is it the same like Stan's (no issues for me there).
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  82. #82
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    Following is another update from my customer, after riding these rims for about a month:

    "sure - happy to comment. I think the people looking at these rims are on the right track.
    the wheelset is absolutely solid. No hints of softening up after a few rides. great build. Thank you.

    I realy appreciate the change I made from (early) Arch rims to these. Pacentis are wider and lighter and as far as I can tell, stiffer.
    I have lowered my tire pressure by 3-4 psi and still have bettter cornering support. I can also compare this wheelset directly to Havens. same advantages, though not as pronounced. (although the engagement points in the I9 hubset is also noticably better)
    ...and I have ridden all three wheelsets wiht the same tires (Schwalbe Ro Ro's) and on the same trails, so the comparison is a good one.


    I weigh 180 and ride tyipcal "trails", no chairlifts for me or this wheelset.
    If I was looking for more of a downhill setup, I would have looked at the WTB Frequency i23.


    This:
    Tech Tuesday
    is the article that got me thinking in this direction. So far I think their conclusioins are spot on.

    I am very happy with the upgrade."


    Quote Originally Posted by 4slomo View Post
    Customer initial riding impressions: "I have ridden the wheelset 4-times over the past 2-weekends. Very stiff over loose chunk and roots. The biggest difference in ride quality for me is the bike now corners like it is on rails! I find I am getting way more traction in the corners. Can a few mm of extra rim width make that kind of difference?"
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  83. #83
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    Lighter than Arches, have eyelets while Arches don't, and stiffer than Arches?
    while being made of the same material (6061-T6)?
    ... that doesn't add up.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    Lighter than Arches, have eyelets while Arches don't, and stiffer than Arches?
    while being made of the same material (6061-T6)?
    ... that doesn't add up.
    Different rim profile could be the answer?
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  85. #85
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    Maybe reconsider the rim cross section geometry and the tire support as components of the equation?

    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    Lighter than Arches, have eyelets while Arches don't, and stiffer than Arches?
    while being made of the same material (6061-T6)?
    ... that doesn't add up.
    Last edited by 4slomo; 05-15-2012 at 09:30 PM.
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  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4slomo View Post
    Maybe reconsider the rim cross section geometry and the tire support as components of the equation?
    Cross section is obviously a factor, it would just seem weird for a very typical extrusion to be significantly superior from a stiffness to weight perspective. Pacentis look basically identical to Salsa's extrusion... even eerily reminiscent of the Race Disc 29er that was discontinued; it just doesn't seem like he's come up with anything revolutionary.
    Tire support is also definitely at play if you consider a very loose definition of "stiffness," which I tend to stay away from due to the ambiguity.

    My point was, on it's face, it seems too good to be true based on a couple of reports. Then again, there are some contrary opinions to be factored in as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
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  87. #87
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    From a number of riders I read that the Pacenti's dent easily - in general, denting occurs from riding too low pressure.

    Anybody else having experience regarding denting? Do they dent easilier than the NoTubes Arch EX rims? Both rims are apparently made from the same aluminum, but can of course be thicker or thinner than one another.

  88. #88
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    I've ridden mine hard on rocks. No dents.

  89. #89
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    I've thought more about this comparison, and perhaps the confusion arises if one equates stiffness with strength. To categorize relative strengths, the Crest probably has the least strength, the TL28 has a greater strength, and the Arch has the greatest strength of the three rims. The wider cross section of the TL28 provides greater stiffness, i.e. less deflection, through it's elastic range until it reaches a loading causing it to fail. If this hypothesis is correct, the Arch can be ridden on rougher trails than the TL28 and the Crest, since it has a higher strength.

    I enjoy seeing continued innovation in rim design, it gives more choices which is a good thing. I understand that Pacenti will be offering additional rim models in June.

    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    Cross section is obviously a factor, it would just seem weird for a very typical extrusion to be significantly superior from a stiffness to weight perspective. Pacentis look basically identical to Salsa's extrusion... even eerily reminiscent of the Race Disc 29er that was discontinued; it just doesn't seem like he's come up with anything revolutionary.
    Tire support is also definitely at play if you consider a very loose definition of "stiffness," which I tend to stay away from due to the ambiguity.

    My point was, on it's face, it seems too good to be true based on a couple of reports. Then again, there are some contrary opinions to be factored in as well.
    Hey everybody, ride my wheels! They ride good, real good.
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  90. #90
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    Here's how I look at it

    - Almost as light as the Crest.
    - As stiff as the Arch.
    - As wide as the Flow.

    I went from using the Havens to the TL28. The TL28's feel just as stiff as the Havens, which is considered an AM rim. No scientific data, just my own perception.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4slomo View Post
    I enjoy seeing continued innovation in rim design, it gives more choices which is a good thing. I understand that Pacenti will be offering additional rim models in June.
    If you are referring to the 650b, I already saw them at my local dealer, they had built up a wheelset at their shop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by madskatingcow View Post
    If you are referring to the 650b, I already saw them at my local dealer, they had built up a wheelset at their shop.
    I think he is refferring to the CL25 and DL31 rims that are due out at the end of June.

    I just laced up a set of the 650b TL28's, but I have no rides on them yet to report on.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by WrecklessREX View Post
    Just received these to replace the 355s on my Industry 9 Ultralites. Ordered them on Thursday and they were on my porch the following Tuesday. I should have them laced up and get a ride in on them this weekend.
    =
    Thanks for this great thread Wreckless!

    I've got mine on order and should be built by next week if all things come together... I will provide some direct feedback in comparison to the Arch EX that I've been riding the beginning of this year.

    Cant wait
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  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace5high View Post
    Thanks for this great thread Wreckless!

    I've got mine on order and should be built by next week if all things come together... I will provide some direct feedback in comparison to the Arch EX that I've been riding the beginning of this year.

    Cant wait
    It will be great to hear your feedback comparing the 2. Of course 355s never stood a chance against the TL28 but the Arch EX should be a closer match.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WrecklessREX View Post
    It will be great to hear your feedback comparing the 2. Of course 355s never stood a chance against the TL28 but the Arch EX should be a closer match.
    Yep, just got off the phone with Chad today to finish up the build details. Pacenti TL28's on a I9 rear compared to my Arch EX on Dt-swiss 240... Should be interesting comparison indeed
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    Back in stock at the Bikeman!

    For those who got some of the first production run and built them yourself, did the nominal 604 ERD yield good length spokes? Any feedback whether it's preferable to round the length up or down? Asking because sometimes when I've built wheels in the past I've wishes the spokes were just a bit longer or shorter than what the spoke calculator said.

    FYI, was going to use this spoke length calculator: Spoke length calculator for calculating spokelengths and build with Hope Pro 2 Evo hubs, 3x.

  97. #97
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    i built pacenti TL-28 29er Rims/AC hubs/Sapim 2.0/1.8 spokes/brass nips. i am 215lbs geared up. been running the pacentis since march.

    my take is the TL-28s built up easier for me than the 4-5 sets of stans wheels i have done. i am coming from an arch 29er build and still run arches on another bike and i don't know that i can honestly say i can tell the difference in stiffness. i typically run the lowest pressure i can get away with without feeling rocks and roots on the rim and thats probably 3-4psi lower with the TL-28s than it was with the arches which is a plus. the lower pressure and tire profile from the extra width seem to make cornering noticeably better with the TL-28s.

    i did my first touch up truing on them just last night and they needed almost no adjustment. so far no dents or major dings but i probably dont ride the rocky terrain that some do here. heading out to PA next week for 10 days might change that.

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    I'm 150 lbs, you guys think I can get away w/ a 2.0-1.5-2.0 32H build?

    XC only, no jumps.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by rice rocket View Post
    I'm 150 lbs, you guys think I can get away w/ a 2.0-1.5-2.0 32H build?

    XC only, no jumps.
    Definitely.

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by rice rocket View Post
    I'm 150 lbs, you guys think I can get away w/ a 2.0-1.5-2.0 32H build?

    XC only, no jumps.
    see above. i am over 200lbs. no problems so far.

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