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Thread: NOX Composites?

  1. #1
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    NOX Composites?

    Greetings--

    I've been looking around at a wheelset upgrade for my XC ride. I came across an ad this morning (on MTBR) for Nox Composites. Looking around on their website, their rims looked like they could be a nice new options for carbon wheels/rims. (disclaimer-- I am not a wheel expert in the slightest!)

    They look to be a very new company, so I wasn't shocked when google just came up with their own website, and nothing else. I sent them an email this afternoon, and hope to hear back from them soon.

    Anybody have thoughts on their rim designs?

    NOX Composites?-mainpic4_0.jpg

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    Hey padrefan1982,

    Hope we answered your recent questions, let me know if you have any more!

    We are a pretty new company - we released our first carbon rim about a month ago, the XCR-29. This rim has been in development for a year and we've been prototyping and testing for about 8 months. The XCR-29 is unique in that it is very wide for an XC rim (23mm internal) and is asymmetric (2.4mm offset flip/flop design so the same rim can be used front or rear). We're big believers in asymmetrical rims and we have some stuff on our website explaining why they build into better wheels. Production rim weights are right around 385g.

    Our rims are built with a unique mixture of 3K weave and unidirectional Toray prepreg fiber. We are wrapping the 3K weave around the bead lip to reinforce this area to rim strikes and also using the 3K weave to support drill holes. We also designed our rims specifically to be run tubeless with normal or "tubeless-ready" tires. No thick/heavy tape or rubber rim strips required.

    We're stoked about the rims and just trying to get the word out. All of our employees are engineers or geeky wheel builders, so marketing isn't our forte but we're trying! If anyone is near Knoxville, TN give us a call/email and we'll get you on some demo wheels! We're also looking to sponsor more Elite athletes (Cat 1/Pro), so check out our Grassroots Race Team.

    Thanks
    Brad
    Nox Composites
    Last edited by NoxComposites; 08-07-2013 at 07:20 PM.

  3. #3
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    Brad-- You answered all of them! I came up with one today that I'll be emailing you about later.

    I'll answer my own question a bit, for others who are curious about NOX. I emailed NOX the same day I posted this topic with a bunch of questions about their rims and company. The same day, Brad offered to call me and discuss everything over the phone. When that didn't work due time issues, he answered all of my questions-- even some tough ones about the newness of their company, and gave me honest (even positive at times) feedback about competitors carbon wheels. Those things convinced me to pick up a wheelset with King hubs from them.

    I won't claim to be any sort of expert on wheels, rims, spokes or hubs, but I was impressed by the amount of information to be found on their website, which I feel is a good thing for a new company to have out there. It was detailed and clear enough for me to understand, and has helped me feel pretty great about the wheels I've ordered. When I get some time on them, I'll be sure post my impressions for others.

    Just to be clear-- I have no relationship with NOX whatsoever. Just a guy who's been pretty impressed by what I've seen so far.

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    Good to see more carbon rim options popping up. Especially US-built rims.

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    Hi Brad:

    I also saw your ad here and visited your web site and was also quite impressed by what I saw -- not a wheel expert either, and your site did a good job explaining the whys behind your design. I am also glad to see that CF rims are becoming more affordable and commonplace.

    I have some questions:

    I eventually want to get a good wheelset for my Trek Superfly AL Elite. I have been looking at Bontrager's Race X Lite. I have never actually ridden them, but I did ride Race Lite, and they are awesome. Your design is similar in that it has an offset spoke bed and bladed spokes. The stock wheels on my bike have the offset spoke bed -- it makes a lot of sense to me. I hardly ever have to true them.

    Ok, my questions :

    1. Has any study been done on aerodynamic benefits of bladed spokes on mountain bikes. I am a pilot and understand that air drag is only 1/4th of what it would be if you were 15mpg as opposed to 30, but can't believe that it wouldn't shave a few seconds off a race. (Thanks for your web site for pointing out that bladed spokes are stronger. I didn't know that).

    2. My stock wheelset has 28 spokes front/32 rear. I weigh let's say 180 lbs to be conservative. Would this be a good configuration for your wheels?

    3. Do the hubs you carry use Centerlock rotors?

    4. By bike currently has regular old Quick Release. Do you have thru-bolt options that would work with my bike? Can the hubs be converted to Thru-axle if I change stanchions or frame?

    Thanks!

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    Hi Dennis,

    1. I'm not aware of an aerodynamic study specifically for mountain bikes, but obviously it has an impact to some degree, especially when it's common for average speeds at XC races to be 16-19mph for pro riders and typically there are some extended fast sections (road starts, fireroad descents, etc.). So is it an aero advantage, yes.. is it something you could actually feel, I don't know.. but we don't default to bladed spokes because of aerodynamics, we do it for other reasons, primary weight while keep the wheel strong (like you said, they are stronger than an equivalent weight round butted spoke). They also contribute a small amount to increased tangential stiffness which is a cool side-effect.

    2. I'd push you towards 32/32. We've done a LOT of testing and research about this. The wheel is a system. Just because you have stiff rims does NOT mean you can "save some weight" with less spokes. In fact, stiff rims will make flexy spokes more obvious to you when it comes to noticing deflection opposite of wheel loading. If you're on a 29er, you need all the lateral stiffness you can get, period. I promise you you'll be faster with a extremely solid feeling front wheel (a good carbon rim with 32 spokes) than you would be by saving ~20g to go with 28 holes. Even at 32 spokes we still have wheelsets under 1450g. And these are not noodle race day only wheels, these are extremely stiff wheels. Making stiff rims and wheels is really the primary reason we got into this.

    3. No, but we will build with any hub you want. DT or Shimano are both good options if you want centerlock. You can even send in your existing hubs. Or of course you can buy our rims and have your local wheel builder handle it too. Our rims use standard spokes and standard nipples, so experienced wheel builders won't have any problems building with them. We're flexible (except for our rims.. which are stiff!) :-)

    4. Yes, American classic has a 9mm thru-axle hub option. It's not a configuration we keep in stock but we can order it for you in just a few days. King does not offer a 9mm thru option. And again, we are happy to customize a build for you using whatever hubs you want. We like AC hubs because they are very light and have been reliable for us, and for those less concerned with weight, we feel like Kings are the best you can buy from a durability and engagement point of view.

    And just for full transparency - our rims are not made in the US as someone noted above. We do final finishing, decals, QC and wheel building by hand in Tennessee. Unfortunately we wouldn't be able to sell rims of this quality at this price point if they were made in the US. It's something we looked into very hard, and it's a sad fact, but as many of you know, making carbon rims is a very labor intensive process.

    Thanks!
    Brad
    Nox Composites

  7. #7
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    Cool. Im interested in sponsorship... Maybe my whole team too.

    I represent well, just winning the Us Cup East/SERC series as a cat 1 this season.

    Ill shoot you an email!
    John
    Raised in a Chicken-Coop by Chickens

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    Just to add a bit to this thread, I recently set up a dealer account with NOX and received a set of rims to build and review for Singletracks (On Test blog post coming soon). The rims arrived early this week, it'll be next week before I get them built and on the trail.

    The fit and finish is very nice. Consistent ERD measurements (tho my #s were different than their published number, as with ANY rim - always measure before buying spokes!). Mine were both right on target with weight - 383g and 385g. Schweeeet. They are VERY stiff, I'm looking forward to hitting the trails on 'em.




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    I recently received a demo XCR-29 wheelset to try out. I haven't had a chance to ride them yet, but I'm VERY impressed with the design and the quality. I'll post up a review soon.
    Tire Design & Development Engineer. The opinions expressed in this forum are solely my own.

  10. #10
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    To add on some initial impressions. I got my wheels this week, but due to school starting back up (teacher) I haven't been abel to get much time on them... should get some trail time tomorrow, but what I've noticed already:

    • Rim quality is great from what I can tell. Look beautiful, and if you care about these kind of things, their decals should lift off easy (I like 'em though)
    • Tubeless tape was preinstalled, and the Nox rims were the fastest tubeless install I've done. What I didn't expect was that one of my tires would not hold a seal with the old Roval rim, but on a whim, I tried the tire on the Nox, and bam; sealed up first time. Rim width seemed to help with the install as well, as the tire beads didn't have to 'fight' for space with the valve stem.
    • They're stiff. I don't have a lot (read: no) of experience with other carbon rims, but these far exceed other nice aluminum rims I've run (ACs, Stans, etc) They kill the stock wheels they replaced-as they should!
    • Weight was right on. I picked up a complete wheels from them and the weight was with-in the range given on the website.
    • What I've noticed in 5 -7 miles I have on them is that I'm spinning faster gears, which is awesome. I was a full 1 mph faster on the short Strava trail section I have been able to ride so far. Only change has been the wheels.


    None of this should be a surprise, I feel like, since these aren't cheap. But so far, I feel like they're worth every penny. I'll have more info on them when I get some real trail time during the labor day weekend.

    Just my 2 cents.

  11. #11
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    I have been looking at Carbon wheels for my Carbon Superfly for over a year. There are certainly many good offerings and in the last 6 mos or so price points of many wheels have become more reasonable. I had almost decided on Enve but was hesitant due to price and width of their XC wheel (24mm out/18mm in). The AM wheel is a good width (30mm out/ 24mm in) and is still a few grams lighter with Chris King Hubs than Nox Composites.

    I have had Chris King hubs on all my bikes for over 12 years now and that availability is an important consideration for me with carbon wheels. Due to cost of carbon with the availability of building with CK I have also been considering going back with a Stan's rim. But now seeing Nox composites, their building philosophy, price and location ( I am in the south) I am going to put in my order for a set. When I receive the wheels I will provide an update and eventual review.

  12. #12
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    Got mine laced up finally. Hope Pro 2 Evo hubs, 32H, Revolution spokes all around. 1,582g. I'll have some miles on 'em by the end of the week.




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    That's some serious bling Dustin. Nice work!

  14. #14
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    You know,
    There are some of us the still run our 26ers out there. Maybe not for XC, but I could be interested in a carbon rim.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ziscwg View Post
    You know,
    There are some of us the still run our 26ers out there. Maybe not for XC, but I could be interested in a carbon rim.
    Deflexion Racing

    ^^they're on Instagram too, username deflexionracing

  16. #16
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    When are the 650B rims available?

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    We are finalizing the 650B prototypes this week! Currently our AM-275 is running 27mm internal width and will run about 415 grams. We will have them available in about 2 months once they pass all our testing.

    Other near-term plans include an AM-29 rim ~27mm internal width and bit beefier build and an XCR-275 rim at 23mm internal width and ~350ish gram weight. All rims will be asymmetrical.

    We aren't anti-26 or anything, just starting with what has the highest market demand.

    Brad
    Nox Composites

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    ok!! are you gonna make this am 29 rim big enough for chunky boys????

  19. #19
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    Boy this has me thinking about a set!!

    Would also be interested in saving some green by going with Revs or Supercomps.

  20. #20
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    The rims look really nice and I'm stoked to see some more carbon rim options popping up. Nice going.
    I do have to make a couple of corrections to your claims about bladed spokes:
    Quote Originally Posted by NoxComposites View Post
    1. I'm not aware of an aerodynamic study specifically for mountain bikes, but obviously it has an impact to some degree, especially when it's common for average speeds at XC races to be 16-19mph for pro riders and typically there are some extended fast sections (road starts, fireroad descents, etc.). So is it an aero advantage, yes.. is it something you could actually feel, I don't know.. but we don't default to bladed spokes because of aerodynamics,
    From an aerodynamic perspective, you would be much better served by wearing an aero helmet than going for bladed vs. round spokes when they're running behind a 2.0(+) knobby mountain bike tire that is tearing up the air.
    Quote Originally Posted by HillDancer
    (like you said, they are stronger than an equivalent weight round butted spoke).
    While the extra step of turning a round spoke into a bladed one does add some amount of yield strength to the spokes, spokes do not fail by exceeding yield strength... not even close, and this "added strength" is not something that translates into wheels, so this claim is somewhat misleading.
    The bottom line is that bladed spokes do not build a wheel any stronger or stiffer than equivalent round spokes.
    I will add that the additional surface area of bladed spokes makes them much more likely to encounter rock or stick strikes and the process that made them "stronger" also made them more brittle.

    Quote Originally Posted by HillDancer
    They also contribute a small amount to increased tangential stiffness which is a cool side-effect.
    I'll say that this is just wrong. Making a bladed spoke out of a round one does not change the elasticity of the steel, which is what would be required to produce the effect you claim. That said, since you seem fairly well versed, I'd entertain whatever it is that led you to this conclusion, even though it is incorrect.
    I'm not at all trying to be combative, just helpful in getting what is already a pretty solid looking pitch to more factual accuracy, and I do recognize that there are many people in the bike industry that have mistakenly prescribed to these beliefs about bladed spokes.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoxComposites

    They also contribute a small amount to increased tangential stiffness which is a cool side-effect.
    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather
    I'll say that this is just wrong. Making a bladed spoke out of a round one does not change the elasticity of the steel,...
    I think you two are talking about different things. Nox is referring to the ability of the spoke to resist bending, you are referring to stretchy-ness. The spoke flat spoke would indeed resist bending in the plane of the wheel more than a round spoke. But I suppose a flat spoke would bend laterally easier, so it may not be buying you anything.

    If you don't care about aerodynamics, mount the blades sideways, or alternate

    Nox -- what is your philosophy on linear-pull spokes (or whatever you call it -- hubs that do not require the spoke to be bent)?

    Wheel Building Philosophy | Nox Composites

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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisF View Post
    The spoke flat spoke would indeed resist bending in the plane of the wheel more than a round spoke. But I suppose a flat spoke would bend laterally easier, so it may not be buying you anything.
    That doesn't matter, for two reasons. One, the spoke can pivot in the hub flange, it's not a hard/fixed joint. But mostly, it doesn't matter because the spokes work in tension, not bending, so the elasticity is what matters. If you take a round spoke and flatten it, it still has the same cross section area (it's just a different shape) and therefore the same "stretch" for a given load.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisF View Post
    I think you two are talking about different things. Nox is referring to the ability of the spoke to resist bending, you are referring to stretchy-ness. The spoke flat spoke would indeed resist bending in the plane of the wheel more than a round spoke. But I suppose a flat spoke would bend laterally easier, so it may not be buying you anything.
    I'm glad you mentioned this, because it is another misconception about bladed spokes, and really spokes in general; that spoke bending plays any role in a wheel's response to load (it does not).
    dgaddis1 is right on.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

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    Quote Originally Posted by dgaddis1 View Post
    That doesn't matter, for two reasons. One, the spoke can pivot in the hub flange, it's not a hard/fixed joint. But mostly, it doesn't matter because the spokes work in tension, not bending, so the elasticity is what matters. If you take a round spoke and flatten it, it still has the same cross section area (it's just a different shape) and therefore the same "stretch" for a given load.

    I disagree with you. This bladed spoke is the fastest and strongest

    NOX Composites?-dtswiss.jpg

    Because it's RED
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  25. #25
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    All spoke opinions aside I'm very anxious to hear and see more about these rims!

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    Ya, I don't want this thread to turn into a spoke debate. In the end, we make rims, not spokes so that's where we focus most of our attention. Who knows why people latch on to these small details with religious zeal, but I'll give the poor little cx-ray a bit of defense.

    First, we are spoke agnostic. If you read our website and came away thinking we will ONLY build with cx-rays or other bladed spokes then you are taking it the wrong way. We frequently recommend other spokes based on the unique requirements of the rider/terrain. For racers, or riders wanting to save weight, we frequently do recommend the cx-ray for 2 reasons:

    1. Sapim claims ~3x improved fatigue life for the CX-Ray versus the laser. Based on our own anecdotal evidence when compared to a laser (same weight butted spoke), we see less cx-rays break than lasers. Now before you all attack your keyboards with "but spokes don't break because they reach the end of their fatigue life!!!" ya ya, we know that, but the fact remains we've seen more lasers break than cx-ray. Not really sure why.. well, we do have some theories but let's save that for a different thread.
    2. The additional cost is small compared to the overall cost of the wheelset, so we recommend the cx-ray over the laser if you are looking for a lightweight spoke (which almost all our customers are) because we feel it's more durable. Simple as that.

    One more point is that it's much easier to build with a light bladed spoke versus a 1.5mm round spoke because you can hold the bladed spoke as you tighten the nipple. You don't have to deal with windup. Making the wheel builder's life easier usually results in a happy wheel builder, which results is a better build.

    I know I dodged the claim of torsional stiffness... that claim is based on discussions with a DT swiss engineer. While we do respect this engineer, we also agree the math predicts the stiffness should be unchanged if a cx-ray is just a reshaped laser. So ya, we need to shake this out - we have an inquiry in now with DT and we'll reference the claim or at least substantiate it if DT has data to back this up. Keep in mind that a small change in torsional stiffness is not something you can "feel" on the bike. This is why we normally build 2X on 29ers - because while it sacrifices torsional stiffness it improves lateral stiffness.

    Thanks guys,
    Brad

  27. #27
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    NOX Composites?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoxComposites View Post
    Who knows why people latch on to these small details with religious zeal, but I'll give the poor little cx-ray a bit of defense.
    The zealotry seems always to be on the side of people who lack facts and/or knowledge. It's all pretty simple stuff from a structural and materials standpoint, though I recognize that materials and structural analysis are understood by a small percentage of the general population.
    The allusion to religion is funny, because religion is based on faith, which is what you need to believe in something you don't understand or can't explain.
    I assume these comments are aimed at me, since I'm the one that challenged your incorrect claims about bladed spokes.
    Rather than offer any kind of explanation or justification, you've come back by suggesting fanatical obsession with details. Weak ass sauce, but whatevs. It seemed for a minute like you might know what you're talking about and I was hoping to maybe learn something... another day.

    Quote Originally Posted by NoxComposites View Post
    First, we are spoke agnostic. If you read our website and came away thinking we will ONLY build with cx-rays or other bladed spokes then you are taking it the wrong way.
    Bladed spokes are all you mention, and you sort of carry on a out the merits of them, so it doesn't seem like a crazy conclusion to arrive at, even though I hadn't read your website until just now and didn't mention it.
    You also in this thread have touted bladed spokes as the best of the best.
    "Spoke agnostic" vs. the "religious zealots" is funny, even if you got the roles reversed.
    Quote Originally Posted by NoxComposites View Post
    The additional cost is small compared to the overall cost of the wheelset, so we recommend the cx-ray over the laser if you are looking for a lightweight spoke (which almost all our customers are) because we feel it's more durable. Simple as that.
    Lasers are $1 a piece. CX Rays are typically $3.50, which is $160 difference for 64 spokes. Small is subjective, but if you're doing it for the new reason of "easier to build" that seems like a hard sell on a wheel customer.
    "Hey, spend 3x on spokes so I can have an easier time building with them."
    I don't find Lasers/Revos to be that difficult to build with.
    Quote Originally Posted by NoxComposites View Post
    I know I dodged the claim of torsional stiffness... that claim is based on discussions with a DT swiss engineer. While we do respect this engineer, we also agree the math predicts the stiffness should be unchanged if a cx-ray is just a reshaped laser. So ya, we need to shake this out - we have an inquiry in now with DT and we'll reference the claim or at least substantiate it if DT has data to back this up. Keep in mind that a small change in torsional stiffness is not something you can "feel" on the bike. This is why we normally build 2X on 29ers - because while it sacrifices torsional stiffness it improves lateral stiffness.

    I've heard the same thing from a DT rep and agree that it is bogus.
    If you don't agree and you do other things that compromise it (the 2x vs. 3x thing is correct), then it's kind of hard to understand why you would throw it out there, unless you're in the habit of blowing smoke, in which case it would also be difficult to take the anecdotal evidence of CX Rays lasting longer seriously.
    Both Sapim and DT have the challenge of selling bladed products for the mountain bike market at a HUGE premium. They have to come up with some justification, and this is where this misinformation originates. I'd be skeptical of what they have to say unless it is backed up by something unbiased.

    I still like your rims.
    Good luck with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  28. #28
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    Man melting feather you should release some of that anger by going for a bike ride

  29. #29
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    NOX Composites?

    Quote Originally Posted by JIMSLICK View Post
    Man melting feather you should release some of that anger by going for a bike ride
    lol
    What a tired ass comment... and as comments like that so often are, way off the mark.
    Why even waste the time?
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  30. #30
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    Well this thread went south! Might as well go over to the cheap Chinese rim thread at least I get to see a bunch of broken rims.

  31. #31
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    Received my wheels

    I received my wheels on Friday. I had them built by Nox Composites with Chris King hubs. The quality of the rim and the build is very nice. I have 2 rides on them consisting of 1 longish climb and a bunch of short punchy climbs with a lot of rocks and roots. Also some fast smooth single track with some good cornering. My observations thus far:

    1. The wheels are very, very stiff. In corners, monster trucking down rocky steeps, and climbing.

    2. They make my full squishy climb more like a hard tail.

    3. They seem lighter than their advertised weight of ~1594g. I don't know if that is from the stiffness or what but they just seem light.

    4. The wheels spin up to speed really quickly and hold speed well.

    I am going on a 3 day mtb trip later this week and will put many more miles on this wheel set. I expect to be even more impressed with the quality, ride and price with this wheel set.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails NOX Composites?-nox_1.jpg  


  32. #32
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    Greg, what is your opinion on linear-pull hubs/spokes?

    TIA

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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisF View Post
    Greg, what is your opinion on linear-pull hubs/spokes?

    TIA
    I am certainly not a wheel expert but will provide my opinion as you asked. J-bend spokes are easier to repair or adjust on the trail or at home and typically do not require proprietary tools and proprietary parts. From an engineering perspective (I am not an engineer) linear pull spokes seem to be a great option and seemingly would be under less stress at the hub. I have actually never broken a spoke at the J-bend, it has always been somewhere along the length of the spoke or at the nipple. I have had wheels with both linear pull spokes and J-bend spokes. All the hand built wheels with J-bend spokes have held up very well in comparison to some other wheels I have had in the last 15 years.

  34. #34
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    Well Done!!

    Received my Nox wheelset today and oh my these turned out sweet!! Very excited to get them out and pound the crap out of em!!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails NOX Composites?-544552_722276941131161_566095461_n.jpg  

    NOX Composites?-1240548_722276907797831_1313462213_n.jpg  

    Last edited by bdundee; 09-18-2013 at 08:19 PM.

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    This is why OEMs mostly refrain from posting on MTBR. Nice job.

  36. #36
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    Great looking wheels bdundee! I have put ~90 miles mile on my Nox Composites wheels since receiving a couple weeks ago. I have ridden just about every type of terrain, smooth, fast and flowy, slow, rocky, rooty and technical and everything in between. I am really pleased with the overall performance. They are the stiffest xc wheels I have ridden to date, including 26ers. Tubeless setup with Ardent (f) and Ikon (r) was a breeze. Have fun putting them to the test!

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogiKudo View Post
    This is why OEMs mostly refrain from posting on MTBR. Nice job.
    Heh. Yes, sometimes it can be tempting to get into technical minutia that has little relevance.

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    Shipping this set out to a customer today. Polished silver White Industries hubs, silver Revolution spokes, black alloy nipples. Looks way better in person than my iPhone camera can capture. Going on a titanium Form Prevail, should look sweeeeet!






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    Those will look great on a Ti bike! You don't see those hubs very often but they are quite nice.
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    I would love to see some 26 all mountain love from you guy's!

  41. #41
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    These things are friggen fast
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails NOX Composites?-1235194_727037400655115_1626107085_n.jpg  

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  42. #42
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    bdundee: what are your initial thoughts on the hubs? Also, thoughts on the Panaracers set up tubeless?

    Bike and wheels look great!

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    The bike now feels like a 26 inch in the fast twisty stuff
    NOX Composites?-p9260174-001.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by dgaddis1 View Post
    Shipping this set out to a customer today. Polished silver White Industries hubs, silver Revolution spokes, black alloy nipples. Looks way better in person than my iPhone camera can capture. Going on a titanium Form Prevail, should look sweeeeet!






  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnyquist View Post
    bdundee: what are your initial thoughts on the hubs? Also, thoughts on the Panaracers set up tubeless?

    Bike and wheels look great!
    Thanks! The Panaracers set up beautiful tubeless, very very tight fit and have been holding air great almost got them to seat with a floor pump but I didn't feel like working that hard. I know they are actually going to switch the line to tubeless ready soon but these had no sidewall leaks and really with some rims going hookless what does the bead really have to do with anything anyways. Maybe someone could explain that knows more.

    As far as the hubs, I have been on I9's for a few years and love em. I know the Torch hubs have been giving a few fits but so was the last model when they first came out but I never had a problem plus they are very easy to take apart and service.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowandlow View Post
    The bike now feels like a 26 inch in the fast twisty stuff
    Sweet ride!!

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    Thanx!

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    Have a set of 29er rims coming to Belgium, can't wait !!!

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    Wheels look very interesting. Trying to decide between these the Enve xc or the Easton ec 90. Any thoughts on those wheels? how the compare on ride and stiffness?

  49. #49
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    I just sold a set of Enve XC 29er wheels. I am building a new bike with the Nox rims and I9 hubs. I will report back as soon as the build is done. The Enve rims are great, no question, but I am interested to see how the Nox compare.


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    Nox, what is your opinion on linear-pull spokes?

    TIA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by progolferv1 View Post
    Wheels look very interesting. Trying to decide between these the Enve xc or the Easton ec 90. Any thoughts on those wheels? how the compare on ride and stiffness?
    I have never rode the Enve or the Eastons but when I was researching I like the width of the Nox over both of the others and the price over the Enve. Also I like the freedom of hub choices with the Nox or the Enve.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    ...Also I like the freedom of hub choices with the Nox or the Enve.
    +1 Easton makes great carbon parts, but their hubs have had issues. Would be nice if they sold just rims.

    DT Swiss has some new carbon rims coming out soon too, but I'm not sure on pricing on those yet.

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    Keen to read the comparison between the Enve`s and Nox rims.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisF View Post
    Nox, what is your opinion on linear-pull spokes? TIA.
    No strong opinions either way. Given the choice, we'll go with the stiffest option, which usually means J-bend spokes since you get a higher bracing angle than with most linear-pull setups, but this may vary from hub to hub. They look nice, that seems to be the primary benefit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    I have never rode the Enve or the Eastons but when I was researching I like the width of the Nox over both of the others and the price over the Enve. Also I like the freedom of hub choices with the Nox or the Enve.
    There are some excellent choices these days. All brands mentioned make great stuff.

    We've gone wider across the line (23mm XC and 27mm+ AM internal width) while trying to keep weight in check, and of course the primary difference is that our rims are asymmetrical. This point often gets overlooked, but it's an important feature. For a typical hub like a King or I9, our rims will build into wheels ~8% more stiff laterally (net) than an equivalent symmetric rimmed wheel by shifting the DS and NDS bracing angles.

    The rim offset also equalizes spoke tension between the drive and non-drive side which will give you a more durable wheel that's less likely to come de-tensioned and out of true over time.
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  56. #56
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    Don't straight pull hubs & spokes already compensate a little of the advantage asymmetrical rims offer ? Straight pull spokes also have the advantage you don't need to take off the cassette / disc when you need to replace a spoke.

    Why don't all big manufacturers (Enve, Roval, Reynolds, etc) offer asymetrical rims if this is the holy grail? Different manufacturers, different opinions? Just wondering

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by madskatingcow View Post
    Don't straight pull hubs & spokes already compensate a little of the advantage asymmetrical rims offer ?
    I can't think of a reason why. What's your thinking?
    Quote Originally Posted by madskatingcow View Post
    Straight pull spokes also have the advantage you don't need to take off the cassette / disc when you need to replace a spoke.
    This is true, but hopefully not much of a factor.

    Quote Originally Posted by madskatingcow View Post
    Why don't all big manufacturers (Enve, Roval, Reynolds, etc) offer asymetrical rims if this is the holy grail? Different manufacturers, different opinions? Just wondering
    In general I think asym rims have a solid theoretical basis, unlike much cycling gadgetry. Holy grail is a stretch that I don't think NOX is claiming. In general I think symmetrical rims are working fine, so there's not a lot of motivation for many manufacturers.
    I posted up a comparative figure that showed the tension balancing result of my Bontrager Dusters once upon a time.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
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    Yep, no claims of holy grails being found here. meltingfeather is of course correct that symmetric rims are working out just fine, this is a small (but measurable) effect.

    Front and rear disc wheels are dished towards opposite sides of each other, so I think many manufacturers have tried to avoid two different rims (front and rear specific) in order to address this. We have too, which is why our offset is on the mild side - that way you can use the same rim front or rear by flipping it around. We didn't invent this idea and we aren't the only ones doing this, it's just something that (currently) makes us different from many other carbon mountain rims. It's all about small changes and optimizations that add up to a better wheel and ultimately a faster/stronger bike.
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    thinking about pulling the trigger on a set of these. What are the thoughts on the I9 hubs vs the American Classic

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    Quote Originally Posted by progolferv1 View Post
    thinking about pulling the trigger on a set of these. What are the thoughts on the I9 hubs vs the American Classic
    I was wrestling with the same question. I also considered Hope Pro II. I am going with the I9. My reasoning was the engagement of the I9. Time will tell if I get annoyed by the sound of them (although I have Hope hubs on my fat bike, and they don't bother me.)

    Also, I have had American Classic hubs in the past. I found them to be reliable and quiet. Engagement was just a little slow.

  61. #61
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    I've always enjoyed the sound and actually once you get tires on them they get a lot quieter, just a nice buzzing sound. And if you get them and you don't like the sound just don't stop peddling

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/K_-e5rYwqyw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    I can't think of a reason why. What's your thinking
    I was thinking that with J-bend spokes, the spoke slightly bends against the hub-flange when mounted, causing stress at the flange, as well as at the nipples / rim because the spoke isn't 100% optimal aligned (reason they do asymetrical drilling). With straight pull spokes, there is no bending of the spoke against the hub flange, and the spoke can follow more it's optimal course. Just thinking

  63. #63
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    The I9 torch hubs are surprisingly quiet once on the bike. If you want silent hubs and super light weight, hard to beat American Classic.

    madskatingcow, as I've said before we look at wheels/rims from the standpoint of maximizing lateral stiffness. We figure why would someone pay more for a carbon rim when you can get an aluminum rim of the same weight much cheaper? The answer is because they want a stiffer wheel! Durability comes into play too, but we see that as icing on the cake.

    There is only so much flange width you can work with, and to make the wheels as stiff laterally as possible you want your spokes to be as far toward the outside of the wheel as possible. J-bend spokes do create more stress on the J-bend and hub flange, but all modern hubs are designed to handle this stress. As far as stress at the nipple with bracing angles increase, that's true too - but this is something good wheelbuilders address already (they file the holes slightly as necessary to improve the nipple exit angle). What it boils down to is that the problems being "solved" by straight pull aren't really problems. That is, hubs aren't cracking, and modern j-bend spokes/nipples have been proven reliable. So why would you give up lateral stiffness to go that route? That's the logic we used when selecting hubs to offer our customers. We also like the fact that you can walk into any LBS and pick up a replacement J-bend spoke if needed.

    Remember we are splitting hairs here and while it's fun to talk about this stuff, the differences will be relatively small either way. If you prefer straight pull then go with it!
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoxComposites View Post
    The I9 torch hubs are surprisingly quiet once on the bike. If you want silent hubs and super light weight, hard to beat American Classic.
    I agree on the bike I can hardly hear them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoxComposites View Post
    Remember we are splitting hairs here and while it's fun to talk about this stuff, the differences will be relatively small either way. If you prefer straight pull then go with it!
    I agree 100%.
    A sort of irony in my posts is that, while I do discuss the minutia of the technical aspects of wheels out of interest and because there's so much misinformation out there, I'm of the general opinion (and my posts bear this out) that very little of this matters at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
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  66. #66
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    No strong opinions either way. Given the choice, we'll go with the stiffest option, which usually means J-bend spokes since you get a higher bracing angle than with most linear-pull setups, but this may vary from hub to hub. They look nice, that seems to be the primary benefit.
    Thanks.

    I read in an old wheelbuilding book that the spoke holes in a hub will wear to a larger diameter over time. They apparently make little brass bushings to fix that problem when respoking wheels. Is that still a problem? If so, it seems that linear-pull would solve that.

    Longevity is a big factor to me.

    Who'da thought a "simple" wheel can be so complicated?

  67. #67
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    Ordered up some NOX composites myself to try. Having Dave at Speeddream build them.

    Hadley hubs, XX1, Daves choice on spokes (he typically uses a heavier gauge on the disc and drive side and lighter on the non-drive and non-disc).

    Probably a good two weeks out however...
    "The thing is, Bob, it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care."

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    Have a few questions for NOX

    1) Why no DT 240's on the hub selection drop down box?
    2) Why do you have a weight limit on your wheels when Enve does not?
    3) What kind of testing do your rims go through compared to Enve's test videos?

    Thanks

  69. #69
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    Quick Review of my Nox/Kings

    As the OP for this thread, now that I have a couple of months on my set, I figured I should share my impressions:
    I'm no expert on wheels, and my impressions are of the standard King build that Nox is selling. I won't be able to talk about rims alone. With that said:

    These are the stiffest wheels I've ever ridden. (I have ridden AmClassic All-Mountain, i9s with Arches... no Enves though) My Epic's rear wheel always seemed to have some "give" in it, but that feeling was gone the moment I installed the Nox wheels. I will say that I am running the front hub on just a 9mm QR, so when I find the cash I will be upgrading that-- but they are stiffer (in my mind) then other wheels I've run with 15mm thrus.

    Along with being stiff, they are snappy. The limited power I put to the pedals makes the bike jump forward. I've also noticed I'm faster climbing up long forest road climbs-- one being around 10 miles, 3,000 feet. I'm sure thats a combination of the snap in the wheels and the lightness of them as well.

    Tubeless has been stupid easy, and rock solid. I've had to use a compressor, but that's been my MO for all my tubeless installs.

    I'm loving the King hubs. These are my first set, and I've only adjusted them once--the day they went on the bike. I'm a huge fan of the engagement (super helpful on my Epic with its lowish BB) and the famous "Angry Bee" sound.

    I haven't needed to get in contact with the boys at Nox since my wheels arrived, but its worth noting again that every contact I've had with them was nothing short of outstanding. That alone, is worth the upcharge from the "cheap Chinese rims."

    I was looking at Rovals or these, and now with a bunch of miles on the Noxs, I'm very confident I made the right choice for me.

    Thanks for reading!

    NOX Composites?-img_1989.jpg
    Last edited by padrefan1982; 10-06-2013 at 04:36 PM. Reason: Photo uploader being stupid (or me)

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    Thanks for the review padre!

    Quote Originally Posted by Blk02 View Post
    Have a few questions for NOX

    1) Why no DT 240's on the hub selection drop down box?
    2) Why do you have a weight limit on your wheels when Enve does not?
    3) What kind of testing do your rims go through compared to Enve's test videos?

    Thanks
    1) Because we don't currently offer DT 240s. :-) Possibly in the future.

    2) I can't really answer that question completely as I don't know Enve's rationale for not having a weight limit. We think it makes sense to let riders know what kind of rider we had in mind when we designed the rim. So for example, the XCR-29 rim is recommended for XC riding for riders < 240lb. Does that mean it is going to break if someone 241lb rides it? No, but there is more to it than maintaining a large safety margin. We're also considering if the rim will build into a wheel that meets our high stiffness standards for the specified application. We don't want someone 300lbs riding one of our XCR rims because it won't give them the best riding experience - they should be on a beefier AM rim. And we are working on AM rims in all sizes now! The task of matching the rider with the right wheel components is something that good wheelbuilders are excellent at. Our weight limit helps those builders decide which of our rims to recommend for a given application.

    3) A lot. Which is why it took us 8 months to release the XCR-29 and as of today we've been developing the AM-275 for 6 months and just now entering production phases. Static compression loading, static spoke pull-though, bead forces from tire, dynamic rim impact (built wheel, no tire) and dynamic wheel impact (built wheel with a 2.2 tire tubeless at various pressures). Destructive testing is done during development and periodically with samples pulled from production runs. Nondestructive testing is done with production samples with higher frequency. We also use our sponsored pro athletes to give final production candidates a good thrashing!

    Thanks guys,
    Brad
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  71. #71
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    NOX Composites?

    I got my Nox wheels with I9 hubs yesterday. I am using Rocket Ron SS front and rear. Front seated with a floor pump . I had to replace the tape on the rear, as it was cut and air was leaking.

    I am going to ride this weekend. They look great!


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    I've got about 150 miles on my White Industries, NOX setup.
    An endo, a fast corner washout and several rim strikes and still solid as new.

    NOX Composites makes a solid rim
    Dustin at Southern Wheelworks builds a solid wheel

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowandlow View Post
    I've got about 150 miles on my White Industries, NOX setup.
    An endo, a fast corner washout and several rim strikes and still solid as new.

    NOX Composites makes a solid rim
    Dustin at Southern Wheelworks builds a solid wheel
    Glad you're still enjoying them!

  74. #74
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    Ok kids, mine showed up finally.

    Finally got my hoops today. Had Dave at Speeddream lace these up. Always have felt he builds the best hoops out there and glad to have him lace these up.

    Last year I tried the Enve AM's, this year had the Roval Trail SL 29ers. I like wider rims.

    Wanted to like the Rovals, but kept snapping rear spokes off down at the head. Specialized and my local shop was GREAT about warranty.

    Not doing the full review as of yet. But basics on these. Nox Composites 29ers, Dave's blend of spokes for my 190-205lb carcass. (2.0/1.8 drive side rear and front disc, 2.0/1.5 non drive and front non disc.

    Hadley Hubs, XX1 driver body. Blue alloy nipples.

    Weight - 900 rear (with tape and valve) 760 front (with valve and tape).

    Initial impressions. Stiffer than the rovals. Definitely deeper than the rovals. I think they are a bit wider internally though both are listed 23.

    Tubeless set-up - easiest I've ever had. Loved the definitive POP when inflating. Specialized were also pretty easy to set-up. The Enve were a bit harder.

    Will do a more complete review after more miles.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails NOX Composites?-img_2622.jpg  

    NOX Composites?-img_2623.jpg  

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  75. #75
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    Cool!
    Will be interesting to see a first hand comparison against the other carbon offerings.

    Nox XCR 29
    2.0/1.5 Dt swiss
    White Industries Hubs
    Tape and valves.
    912g Rear
    743g Front

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Giant View Post
    Finally got my hoops today. Had Dave at Speeddream lace these up. Always have felt he builds the best hoops out there and glad to have him lace these up.
    Not doing the full review as of yet. But basics on these. Nox Composites 29ers, Dave's blend of spokes for my 190-205lb carcass. (2.0/1.8 drive side rear and front disc, 2.0/1.5 non drive and front non disc.
    Hadley Hubs, XX1 driver body. Blue alloy nipples.
    Weight - 900 rear (with tape and valve) 760 front (with valve and tape).
    Initial impressions. Stiffer than the rovals. Definitely deeper than the rovals. I think they are a bit wider internally though both are listed 23.
    Tubeless set-up - easiest I've ever had. Loved the definitive POP when inflating. Specialized were also pretty easy to set-up. The Enve were a bit harder.
    Will do a more complete review after more miles.
    Nice!! You got the best wheel builder in the world, well, IMHO.
    Dave's wheels rock.

  77. #77
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    Yeah, put 20 miles on yesterday but playing hookey this AM to go out and hammer them some more before the snow flies here.

    Dave is the best, or at least no one out there is better...
    "The thing is, Bob, it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care."

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    Hopefully NoxComposites will see this: any further information on an AM29 rim?

    I might be really interested in an AM29!

    Thanks

  79. #79
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    Ok,

    Will you guys consider 5 hours of ride time enough for an initial review and comparison to the Enve's and Roval Trail SL 29ers?

    First a review. Last year I rode the Enve AM/DT 240/Sapim X-Ray spokes combo.

    They were stiff, pretty light, and nice and wide. They were a pain to set-up tubeless with a few combos, and truing them (I knocked the rear out) was a royal pain in the ass as you had to pull the tire, tubeless tape, true them up, and re-install. I also don't love bladed spokes, but can go either way.

    Ride wise - stiff as could be (which I like on a dually at 195 lbs) and the width was great.

    Cost - astronomical, BUT U.S.A. built rims which is nice.

    Roval Trail Carbon SL 29er - Back in May after a couple months I loved them. 80% as stiff as the Enves, still a decent width, nice weight, same 240 style hubs and a good value. Cost no object I would steer enve over these, but considering cost, I felt the rovals are the better value. They are china built rims. In june... I started breaking rear spokes. EASY to replace with the straight spokes. Trued back up easily, but then I found the rear wheel to keep losing tension. Then the spoke breaking carosel started up. I broke at least 8 spokes this year. Mounting tubeless was easier than Enve, but not as easy as the NOX so far.

    Specialized eventually warranted the entire wheelset which was AWESOME. My local shop was GREAT about it. But, I did sell them and move on... I wanted a faster engaging hub again.

    I still think the Roval's are a nice value and the warranty is great. They were stiffer than most alloy wheels I've ridden but not quite the Enve's. Lighter.

    That brings me to the NOX/Hadley/Speeddream build.

    I can't tell you a darn thing about long-term durability at this point. I jumped them today and pounded them pretty good but only have 5 hours on them. So far, so good.

    Ride wise, I know they claim 23mm internal and in my rush to ride them I didn't bother to measure but they sure seem wider than the rovals which are also a claimed 23. I would need to measure them, but I'm 90% sure they are wider and deeper.

    Tubeless set-up - best I've ever experienced. Specialized Ground Control 29 x 2.3 (a great tire) a bit tight to get on the rim, but the center channel helped on these. A bit of soapy water on the rim to help them bead up and they SNAPPED into place. Dead center also. No sagging bead etc.

    Weight - lighter than the enve, and while I'm going from memory they are as stiff, or very, very close to it. I felt the same about the Rovals early on, but having just come off of those the NOX are stiffer, no question. Could also be Dave at speeddreams build.

    Cost wise - these are a bargain and I was able to go with Hadley hubs (nothing wrong with DT swiss and the DT's are easy to work on and more easily switched between formats) but the faster engagement I do like. The little piece they use to make sure the valve stem is level is also a nice touch. I had no leaks through the spoke holes, and lost no pressure overnight.

    Small new company, which is a bit of a concern but I think these guys will be around for a while if they manage the business right. Assuming these are durable long term, they are a bargain.

    If US built is important (and I prefer it myself) then the Enve's are very nice, but honestly I couldn't tell anyone to get the Enve's over the Nox at this point, cost considered. You could get a couple back-up rims almost for the same price. I also think internal nipples are a pain in the ass, but hopefully you won't need to true any of these up too much.

    So, hopefully they hold up. Early on I was enamored with the bargain of the rovals. I've seen a few threads of spokes breaking on others, so I'm not isolated. No clue if it's the hub (could an angle be drilled wrong?) the spokes (bad batches do happen), or something else like the build. Can't rip specialized as they stood behind them.

    Digging the Nox so far.
    "The thing is, Bob, it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care."

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  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    The label at the valve hole says ISO 622 X 23.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
    The label at the valve hole says ISO 622 X 23.
    Yup mine do to but take this up with bike rumor

    Claimed widths are 30mm outside/23mm inside/25mm depth. Ours measured in at just over 31mm wide and 24mm inside. That made the already monstrous Honey Badger look positively menacing. It didnít care.

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    I'm trying to put on a pair of Nobby Nics and can't get the bead to seat. How did you do it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicyclemark View Post
    I'm trying to put on a pair of Nobby Nics and can't get the bead to seat. How did you do it?
    Try removing the valve core first, this lets a air flow in much faster. If it works, pump it up to about 30psi then take the pump head off the valve, stop the air with your finger, and put the valve core back in. You can get it back in without losing much air surprisingly.

    If that doesn't work, use some soapy water to lubricate the tire bead and rim tape, which will make it easier for the bead to slip into place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dgaddis1 View Post
    Try removing the valve core first, this lets a air flow in much faster. If it works, pump it up to about 30psi then take the pump head off the valve, stop the air with your finger, and put the valve core back in. You can get it back in without losing much air surprisingly.

    If that doesn't work, use some soapy water to lubricate the tire bead and rim tape, which will make it easier for the bead to slip into place.
    A couple other things to try if this doesn't work:

    I've found that new, out of the box Schwalbes sometimes tricky to mount initially if the sidewall isn't straightening out all the way. I had this last weekend with a Rocket Ron when I was trying to get it to pop into place on an Enve AM rim. I ended up putting a tube in and mounting the tire and leaving it like this overnight. In the morning I took the tube out, put a little soapy water on the bead, and then it snapped right into place.

    Using an air compressor helps a lot. The Lezyne Dirt Floor large volume pump is another option but the quick blast from a compressor is hard to beat.

    I usually pop this tires into place first, and then remove the valve core and inject the sealant. Find this the easiest for me. I've used Stan's until recently. Now switched to Orange Sealant which has gotten very good reviews.



    Separately - very intrigued by these Nox rims. Thinking of moving my Enve AM's from my Jet 9 RDO to my Rip 9 RDO and then putting a set of the Nox on the Jet 9 RDO. Would make for a nice comparison. Will post update in the future if I do this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuttermax View Post





    Separately - very intrigued by these Nox rims. Thinking of moving my Enve AM's from my Jet 9 RDO to my Rip 9 RDO and then putting a set of the Nox on the Jet 9 RDO. Would make for a nice comparison. Will post update in the future if I do this.
    My Jet RDO is lovin them!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicyclemark View Post
    I'm trying to put on a pair of Nobby Nics and can't get the bead to seat. How did you do it?
    What Nobby Nics? Do they have Tubeless Ready or Tubeless embossed on the sidewall? There are also Nobby Nic Performance Line tires which are not TLR. I have found that TLR Nobby Nics inflate as easily as UST tires on tubeless rims.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

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    NOX Composites?

    I seated the bead on my rocket Ron snakeskin with a floor pump, didn't even need to use soap....first time I didn't need to use my compressor with the core removed.

    The rear was another story-same tire. Turns out, the tape had a cut in it. Had to put on a new layer of Stan's tape and the seated up easily.

    As a side note, these rims are excellent. Stiff, wide (had Enve XC before) and fast.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    My new wheels: Nox with American Classic hubs. Front 15mm, rear 135x10mm.
    Nox was very convenient in hubs choises. Rims look very solid!
    Weight is 1475gr with rim strip and alloy AC valves.
    Brad from Nox Composites was very helpful on every demand which is very good promise in excellent customer service. Thanks.
    NOX Composites?-img_1823%5B1%5D.jpg

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    Thinking about these as an upgrade for an incoming Yeti SB95c but wondering if I should be waiting for something wider. Also thinking about these rims laced to I9 hubs. Anyone have any experience with this combo? Anyone running these on an SB95?

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    Quote Originally Posted by trumpus View Post
    Thinking about these as an upgrade for an incoming Yeti SB95c but wondering if I should be waiting for something wider. Also thinking about these rims laced to I9 hubs. Anyone have any experience with this combo? Anyone running these on an SB95?
    I just built a set for a local customer using the Torch Classic hubs with Revolution spokes laced 3-cross. 1,565g. Great set of wheels...I didn't want to give them up haha.

    IMO the width on these is about perfect for most folks. Wide enough to spread the sidewalls out a good bit, but not so wide to leave 2.2"ish tire's sidewalls vunerable. The wider NOX rims in the 29" flavor are gonna be a while I believe...

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by trumpus View Post
    Thinking about these as an upgrade for an incoming Yeti SB95c but wondering if I should be waiting for something wider. Also thinking about these rims laced to I9 hubs. Anyone have any experience with this combo? Anyone running these on an SB95?
    I had a pair built with the I9 Torch hubs in August and am very happy with them. I ride a Tallboy Ltc.

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    how do these compare to the new Derby rims

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    I also have a Tallboy Ltc and was wondering which hubs I should go with. Would you recommend on hub over another?

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    There are lots of good hub choices these days, we currently build with I9 (our most popular hub by far), King or Hope for a bike like the Ltc. Other hubs to check out include Hadley, DT and E13.

    We have some info here on the tech behind our rims if you're looking to compare them to other rims on the market: Technology Behind Nox Composites Rims | Nox Composites

    We plan to stay at ~23mm inner for XC rims and ~27-28mm inner for AM rims for the foreseeable future. The only thing that would make us go wider is if tire manufacturers start to design tires specifically for use on wider rims. Besides ideal tire profile, there is also a balance between width and weight. We strive to keep rim weights as low as possible since it's one of the most noticeable upgrades you can make on a bike.

    Development on the AM-29 has already started, but we are still thinking it'll be summer before we get the rim through testing and into production.
    Nox Composites
    Carbon Fiber Mountain Rims and Wheels

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    Thanks for the quick reply. I currently have ZTR Stans Arch Ex rims with Hope Pro 2 hubs on them but want to upgrade to carbon since I have a lot of wear and tear on the rims and spokes are starting to break. I weight 180lbs and primarily ride cross country trails in Northern California (Auburn, Downieville, and Tahoe) so the XC rims is probably my best option. Always wanted to try Chris King hubs and I plan on having Dave build the wheels so I'll wait to see what he recommends.

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    Anyone try the XC rims yet for cyclocross?

    @NoxComposit - have you guys received any feedback yet from racers?

    Thanks

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    Yes, but tire selection is a bit tricky, you have to run a very wide CX tire for it to work. Narrow tires won't pop in the bead because the rim is so wide. Keep in mind typical CX rims are 16-18mm internal.

    We sponsor Brian Rogers, the 2011 and 2012 ultracross champ who is racing on them this season, also the div II XC collegiate champion, Wes Lamberson is racing CX on them.
    Nox Composites
    Carbon Fiber Mountain Rims and Wheels

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    Does anybody have a long term review of these? And what is your intended use?
    I only ride bikes to fill the time when I'm not skiing.

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    I just installed a pair on my Ibis Ripley, with CK hubs, and simply couldn't be happier! Granted this is my first set of carbon hoops, but WOW, the ride quality is unbelievable!
    Spectacular quality, and oh so STIFF! Also, it's always nice to see some competition in bike bling, because it's the consumer who wins! Highly recommended!!!

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