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Thread: NOX Composites?

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by progolferv1 View Post
    Wheels look very interesting. Trying to decide between these the Enve xc or the Easton ec 90. Any thoughts on those wheels? how the compare on ride and stiffness?
    I have never rode the Enve or the Eastons but when I was researching I like the width of the Nox over both of the others and the price over the Enve. Also I like the freedom of hub choices with the Nox or the Enve.
    And I love beer!!

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    ...Also I like the freedom of hub choices with the Nox or the Enve.
    +1 Easton makes great carbon parts, but their hubs have had issues. Would be nice if they sold just rims.

    DT Swiss has some new carbon rims coming out soon too, but I'm not sure on pricing on those yet.

  3. #53
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    Keen to read the comparison between the Enve`s and Nox rims.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisF View Post
    Nox, what is your opinion on linear-pull spokes? TIA.
    No strong opinions either way. Given the choice, we'll go with the stiffest option, which usually means J-bend spokes since you get a higher bracing angle than with most linear-pull setups, but this may vary from hub to hub. They look nice, that seems to be the primary benefit.
    Nox Composites
    Carbon Fiber Mountain Rims and Wheels

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    I have never rode the Enve or the Eastons but when I was researching I like the width of the Nox over both of the others and the price over the Enve. Also I like the freedom of hub choices with the Nox or the Enve.
    There are some excellent choices these days. All brands mentioned make great stuff.

    We've gone wider across the line (23mm XC and 27mm+ AM internal width) while trying to keep weight in check, and of course the primary difference is that our rims are asymmetrical. This point often gets overlooked, but it's an important feature. For a typical hub like a King or I9, our rims will build into wheels ~8% more stiff laterally (net) than an equivalent symmetric rimmed wheel by shifting the DS and NDS bracing angles.

    The rim offset also equalizes spoke tension between the drive and non-drive side which will give you a more durable wheel that's less likely to come de-tensioned and out of true over time.
    Nox Composites
    Carbon Fiber Mountain Rims and Wheels

  6. #56
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    Don't straight pull hubs & spokes already compensate a little of the advantage asymmetrical rims offer ? Straight pull spokes also have the advantage you don't need to take off the cassette / disc when you need to replace a spoke.

    Why don't all big manufacturers (Enve, Roval, Reynolds, etc) offer asymetrical rims if this is the holy grail? Different manufacturers, different opinions? Just wondering

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by madskatingcow View Post
    Don't straight pull hubs & spokes already compensate a little of the advantage asymmetrical rims offer ?
    I can't think of a reason why. What's your thinking?
    Quote Originally Posted by madskatingcow View Post
    Straight pull spokes also have the advantage you don't need to take off the cassette / disc when you need to replace a spoke.
    This is true, but hopefully not much of a factor.

    Quote Originally Posted by madskatingcow View Post
    Why don't all big manufacturers (Enve, Roval, Reynolds, etc) offer asymetrical rims if this is the holy grail? Different manufacturers, different opinions? Just wondering
    In general I think asym rims have a solid theoretical basis, unlike much cycling gadgetry. Holy grail is a stretch that I don't think NOX is claiming. In general I think symmetrical rims are working fine, so there's not a lot of motivation for many manufacturers.
    I posted up a comparative figure that showed the tension balancing result of my Bontrager Dusters once upon a time.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
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  8. #58
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    Yep, no claims of holy grails being found here. meltingfeather is of course correct that symmetric rims are working out just fine, this is a small (but measurable) effect.

    Front and rear disc wheels are dished towards opposite sides of each other, so I think many manufacturers have tried to avoid two different rims (front and rear specific) in order to address this. We have too, which is why our offset is on the mild side - that way you can use the same rim front or rear by flipping it around. We didn't invent this idea and we aren't the only ones doing this, it's just something that (currently) makes us different from many other carbon mountain rims. It's all about small changes and optimizations that add up to a better wheel and ultimately a faster/stronger bike.
    Nox Composites
    Carbon Fiber Mountain Rims and Wheels

  9. #59
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    thinking about pulling the trigger on a set of these. What are the thoughts on the I9 hubs vs the American Classic

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by progolferv1 View Post
    thinking about pulling the trigger on a set of these. What are the thoughts on the I9 hubs vs the American Classic
    I was wrestling with the same question. I also considered Hope Pro II. I am going with the I9. My reasoning was the engagement of the I9. Time will tell if I get annoyed by the sound of them (although I have Hope hubs on my fat bike, and they don't bother me.)

    Also, I have had American Classic hubs in the past. I found them to be reliable and quiet. Engagement was just a little slow.

  11. #61
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    I've always enjoyed the sound and actually once you get tires on them they get a lot quieter, just a nice buzzing sound. And if you get them and you don't like the sound just don't stop peddling

    And I love beer!!

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    I can't think of a reason why. What's your thinking
    I was thinking that with J-bend spokes, the spoke slightly bends against the hub-flange when mounted, causing stress at the flange, as well as at the nipples / rim because the spoke isn't 100% optimal aligned (reason they do asymetrical drilling). With straight pull spokes, there is no bending of the spoke against the hub flange, and the spoke can follow more it's optimal course. Just thinking

  13. #63
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    The I9 torch hubs are surprisingly quiet once on the bike. If you want silent hubs and super light weight, hard to beat American Classic.

    madskatingcow, as I've said before we look at wheels/rims from the standpoint of maximizing lateral stiffness. We figure why would someone pay more for a carbon rim when you can get an aluminum rim of the same weight much cheaper? The answer is because they want a stiffer wheel! Durability comes into play too, but we see that as icing on the cake.

    There is only so much flange width you can work with, and to make the wheels as stiff laterally as possible you want your spokes to be as far toward the outside of the wheel as possible. J-bend spokes do create more stress on the J-bend and hub flange, but all modern hubs are designed to handle this stress. As far as stress at the nipple with bracing angles increase, that's true too - but this is something good wheelbuilders address already (they file the holes slightly as necessary to improve the nipple exit angle). What it boils down to is that the problems being "solved" by straight pull aren't really problems. That is, hubs aren't cracking, and modern j-bend spokes/nipples have been proven reliable. So why would you give up lateral stiffness to go that route? That's the logic we used when selecting hubs to offer our customers. We also like the fact that you can walk into any LBS and pick up a replacement J-bend spoke if needed.

    Remember we are splitting hairs here and while it's fun to talk about this stuff, the differences will be relatively small either way. If you prefer straight pull then go with it!
    Nox Composites
    Carbon Fiber Mountain Rims and Wheels

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoxComposites View Post
    The I9 torch hubs are surprisingly quiet once on the bike. If you want silent hubs and super light weight, hard to beat American Classic.
    I agree on the bike I can hardly hear them.
    And I love beer!!

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoxComposites View Post
    Remember we are splitting hairs here and while it's fun to talk about this stuff, the differences will be relatively small either way. If you prefer straight pull then go with it!
    I agree 100%.
    A sort of irony in my posts is that, while I do discuss the minutia of the technical aspects of wheels out of interest and because there's so much misinformation out there, I'm of the general opinion (and my posts bear this out) that very little of this matters at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  16. #66
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    No strong opinions either way. Given the choice, we'll go with the stiffest option, which usually means J-bend spokes since you get a higher bracing angle than with most linear-pull setups, but this may vary from hub to hub. They look nice, that seems to be the primary benefit.
    Thanks.

    I read in an old wheelbuilding book that the spoke holes in a hub will wear to a larger diameter over time. They apparently make little brass bushings to fix that problem when respoking wheels. Is that still a problem? If so, it seems that linear-pull would solve that.

    Longevity is a big factor to me.

    Who'da thought a "simple" wheel can be so complicated?

  17. #67
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    Ordered up some NOX composites myself to try. Having Dave at Speeddream build them.

    Hadley hubs, XX1, Daves choice on spokes (he typically uses a heavier gauge on the disc and drive side and lighter on the non-drive and non-disc).

    Probably a good two weeks out however...
    "The thing is, Bob, it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care."

  18. #68
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    Have a few questions for NOX

    1) Why no DT 240's on the hub selection drop down box?
    2) Why do you have a weight limit on your wheels when Enve does not?
    3) What kind of testing do your rims go through compared to Enve's test videos?

    Thanks

  19. #69
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    Quick Review of my Nox/Kings

    As the OP for this thread, now that I have a couple of months on my set, I figured I should share my impressions:
    I'm no expert on wheels, and my impressions are of the standard King build that Nox is selling. I won't be able to talk about rims alone. With that said:

    These are the stiffest wheels I've ever ridden. (I have ridden AmClassic All-Mountain, i9s with Arches... no Enves though) My Epic's rear wheel always seemed to have some "give" in it, but that feeling was gone the moment I installed the Nox wheels. I will say that I am running the front hub on just a 9mm QR, so when I find the cash I will be upgrading that-- but they are stiffer (in my mind) then other wheels I've run with 15mm thrus.

    Along with being stiff, they are snappy. The limited power I put to the pedals makes the bike jump forward. I've also noticed I'm faster climbing up long forest road climbs-- one being around 10 miles, 3,000 feet. I'm sure thats a combination of the snap in the wheels and the lightness of them as well.

    Tubeless has been stupid easy, and rock solid. I've had to use a compressor, but that's been my MO for all my tubeless installs.

    I'm loving the King hubs. These are my first set, and I've only adjusted them once--the day they went on the bike. I'm a huge fan of the engagement (super helpful on my Epic with its lowish BB) and the famous "Angry Bee" sound.

    I haven't needed to get in contact with the boys at Nox since my wheels arrived, but its worth noting again that every contact I've had with them was nothing short of outstanding. That alone, is worth the upcharge from the "cheap Chinese rims."

    I was looking at Rovals or these, and now with a bunch of miles on the Noxs, I'm very confident I made the right choice for me.

    Thanks for reading!

    NOX Composites?-img_1989.jpg
    Last edited by padrefan1982; 10-06-2013 at 04:36 PM. Reason: Photo uploader being stupid (or me)

  20. #70
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    Thanks for the review padre!

    Quote Originally Posted by Blk02 View Post
    Have a few questions for NOX

    1) Why no DT 240's on the hub selection drop down box?
    2) Why do you have a weight limit on your wheels when Enve does not?
    3) What kind of testing do your rims go through compared to Enve's test videos?

    Thanks
    1) Because we don't currently offer DT 240s. :-) Possibly in the future.

    2) I can't really answer that question completely as I don't know Enve's rationale for not having a weight limit. We think it makes sense to let riders know what kind of rider we had in mind when we designed the rim. So for example, the XCR-29 rim is recommended for XC riding for riders < 240lb. Does that mean it is going to break if someone 241lb rides it? No, but there is more to it than maintaining a large safety margin. We're also considering if the rim will build into a wheel that meets our high stiffness standards for the specified application. We don't want someone 300lbs riding one of our XCR rims because it won't give them the best riding experience - they should be on a beefier AM rim. And we are working on AM rims in all sizes now! The task of matching the rider with the right wheel components is something that good wheelbuilders are excellent at. Our weight limit helps those builders decide which of our rims to recommend for a given application.

    3) A lot. Which is why it took us 8 months to release the XCR-29 and as of today we've been developing the AM-275 for 6 months and just now entering production phases. Static compression loading, static spoke pull-though, bead forces from tire, dynamic rim impact (built wheel, no tire) and dynamic wheel impact (built wheel with a 2.2 tire tubeless at various pressures). Destructive testing is done during development and periodically with samples pulled from production runs. Nondestructive testing is done with production samples with higher frequency. We also use our sponsored pro athletes to give final production candidates a good thrashing!

    Thanks guys,
    Brad
    Nox Composites
    Carbon Fiber Mountain Rims and Wheels

  21. #71
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    NOX Composites?

    I got my Nox wheels with I9 hubs yesterday. I am using Rocket Ron SS front and rear. Front seated with a floor pump . I had to replace the tape on the rear, as it was cut and air was leaking.

    I am going to ride this weekend. They look great!


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    I've got about 150 miles on my White Industries, NOX setup.
    An endo, a fast corner washout and several rim strikes and still solid as new.

    NOX Composites makes a solid rim
    Dustin at Southern Wheelworks builds a solid wheel

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowandlow View Post
    I've got about 150 miles on my White Industries, NOX setup.
    An endo, a fast corner washout and several rim strikes and still solid as new.

    NOX Composites makes a solid rim
    Dustin at Southern Wheelworks builds a solid wheel
    Glad you're still enjoying them!

  24. #74
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    Ok kids, mine showed up finally.

    Finally got my hoops today. Had Dave at Speeddream lace these up. Always have felt he builds the best hoops out there and glad to have him lace these up.

    Last year I tried the Enve AM's, this year had the Roval Trail SL 29ers. I like wider rims.

    Wanted to like the Rovals, but kept snapping rear spokes off down at the head. Specialized and my local shop was GREAT about warranty.

    Not doing the full review as of yet. But basics on these. Nox Composites 29ers, Dave's blend of spokes for my 190-205lb carcass. (2.0/1.8 drive side rear and front disc, 2.0/1.5 non drive and front non disc.

    Hadley Hubs, XX1 driver body. Blue alloy nipples.

    Weight - 900 rear (with tape and valve) 760 front (with valve and tape).

    Initial impressions. Stiffer than the rovals. Definitely deeper than the rovals. I think they are a bit wider internally though both are listed 23.

    Tubeless set-up - easiest I've ever had. Loved the definitive POP when inflating. Specialized were also pretty easy to set-up. The Enve were a bit harder.

    Will do a more complete review after more miles.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails NOX Composites?-img_2622.jpg  

    NOX Composites?-img_2623.jpg  

    "The thing is, Bob, it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care."

  25. #75
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    Cool!
    Will be interesting to see a first hand comparison against the other carbon offerings.

    Nox XCR 29
    2.0/1.5 Dt swiss
    White Industries Hubs
    Tape and valves.
    912g Rear
    743g Front

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