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  1. #1
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    Not happy with no tubes system

    Followed all the directions, but here is the issue, unless you have access to a good quality air compressor system, there is no way to get tires to seal. I don't care what he shows in the videos, it just doesn't happen.

    So I have to run tubes until I can get access to a decent air system. Now wondering if I can just get tubes and full them with stans, as opposed to this hugely frustrating endeavor I'm on now.

    Sorry, venting, I know many of you have had great success. Me not so much.

    Bill

  2. #2
    mtbpete
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    Do you mean you are having trouble seating the tire into the bead of the rim? What rim and tire combination are you using? If you are using a Stan's Alpha rim all of the cross tires except the Vittoria CX TNT will be loose on the rim and difficult to inflate. Call Stan's and ask for an Alpha cross rim strip, which will help. The same tires should seat with a floor pump on the Iron Cross or other Stan's mtb rims. Some tires are very loose and need a compressor regardless. For sealing air-tight it is very important to watch the tubeless kit video, which shows the steps necessary and how to check for leaks.

  3. #3
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    I've mounted WTB nanos and Ardents with just a floor pump, and Ikons with a compressor.

    If you are having trouble, there are two tricks you can try. Try mounting a tire with a tube first, and then remove just one side of the tire from the rim and remove the tube. That way you are half way there!

    You can also try the rachet strap method--squeeze the tire with the strap, inflate until all or most of the bead is seated, then remove the strap.

    Or consider getting a little compressor. You'd have it for years and probably find other uses for it.

  4. #4
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    First thought- make sure you remove the valve core or you'll never be able to push enough air in there.

    Most often I can set up a new set of tires on Stan's rims with my old junker floor pump. Setting up used tires is more difficult and I recently invested in a Nashbar L'Orange high capacity floor pump that does an excellent job with less furious pumping axxion

    Another option is an electric auto tire air pump. They generally have a Schrader/Presta reversible rubber insert that works. I've had to resort to it once in years of setting up tubeless tires. Inflating used Racing Ralph tires on Bontrager Duster rims wasn't happening with a floor pump.

  5. #5
    dwt
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    Not happy with no tubes system

    Welcome to the wonderful world of tubeless. If you are doing anything but UST tires on UST rims, bad language and occasional failures are inevitable.

    Regular tires on ZTR rims CAN be a beeotch to seat, though not always depending on tire. Also, in the famous words of Shiggy, a crap shoot whether they will stay on the rims riding. Check the No- tubes website for tires that won't work.

    My personal choice is TLR, TNT, or TCS tire on ZTR , WTB or UST rim. These tires generally have the reinforced UST bead which will seat and hold onto the rim, but lack beefy UST casing and sidewall. Therefore lighter, but require sealant and susceptible to sidewall cuts. The "650b" or tweener of the tubeless tire world, if you will. Not too risky, not too heavy, but just right.

    Rule of thumb. The harder to mount the tire, the easier to seat using just floor pump. If the tire just pops on the rim and fits loosely, you could be in for frustration getting it to seat. Trade off is easier trail side repair.

    Tricks of the trade. Add extra layer of Stan's or Gorilla tape to rim which will tighten tire rim interface. Once mounted and sealant injected through valve, if it won't seat, squirt a bead of sealant around outside of bead and let dry (24 hours). Idea is to make an airtight seal. When pumping, sponge very soapy suds around rim, which will help prevent air loss and get the sucker to seat. Investing in compressor will save much frustration and arm pain as well.

    Good luck.
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by crossracer View Post
    Followed all the directions, but here is the issue, unless you have access to a good quality air compressor system, there is no way to get tires to seal. I don't care what he shows in the videos, it just doesn't happen.

    So I have to run tubes until I can get access to a decent air system. Now wondering if I can just get tubes and full them with stans, as opposed to this hugely frustrating endeavor I'm on now.

    Sorry, venting, I know many of you have had great success. Me not so much.

    Bill
    It is not a "system." Use UST spec tires on UST rims, which is a tubeless system designed to work together. No need for weird techniques and holding your mouth just right.

    Or stick with tubes, which are are part of a designed to work from the start system.
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  7. #7
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    I've used non-UST tires for 8+ years on Stan's and now DT Swiss rims without any problems other than getting some tires to initially inflate. Some tires, such as any Continental RaceSport model, just can't be used effectively tubeless. The weight penalty often is minor enough to go the UST route, I just haven't gotten around to it yet.

  8. #8
    mtbpete
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    Do not use a TCS (WTB TCS) tire on a Stan's ZTR 29er rim. Way too tight! It has a UST bead and will work fine on UST rims or others, but not Stan's 29 rim. They will fit on the 26in ZTR rims though. The rest of the tubeless ready tires are great on ZTR 29er rims.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by crossracer View Post
    Followed all the directions, but here is the issue, unless you have access to a good quality air compressor system, there is no way to get tires to seal. I don't care what he shows in the videos, it just doesn't happen.

    So I have to run tubes until I can get access to a decent air system. Now wondering if I can just get tubes and full them with stans, as opposed to this hugely frustrating endeavor I'm on now.

    Sorry, venting, I know many of you have had great success. Me not so much.

    Bill
    I was about to start a thread on whether I would be nuts to inject two ounces of Stan's with a hypodermic into a 29" tube - can't find a Slime Tube in 29" - and just patch the hole in the tube and install. You could also inject a tube and carry it as a spare, to get you home through cactus country without attempting to remove every tiny spine.

    I know, why not just go tubeless. Because I don't really want to have to know that much and don't care about the weight. The only time I worry about rotating mass is when the mass is me rotating OTB.

    As to getting a tire to air up without a compressor, there was an old method for car tires way back when using a rope around the circumference of the tread to push the bead out to the rim. Try tying a piece of cord around it and wind it tight with a stick to hold the bead out. As a bush repair system - if it works - you can't beat the weight of ten feet of cord, which has many uses.

  10. #10
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    Not happy with no tubes system

    Thanks everyone . I went and used a large compressor and got it set.
    But I didn't hear the pop, so I tried again no pop. But tire is holding air and I'll ride it tonight and see what happens.

    And I can allways go back to tubes. That's true. Just heard great things about stans and wanted to try it myself.

    They are ust tires, but not ust rims.

    I'll see how things go

    Bill

  11. #11
    dwt
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    Not happy with no tubes system

    Quote Originally Posted by changingleaf View Post
    Do you mean you are having trouble seating the tire into the bead of the rim? What rim and tire combination are you using? If you are using a Stan's Alpha rim all of the cross tires except the Vittoria CX TNT will be loose on the rim and difficult to inflate. Call Stan's and ask for an Alpha cross rim strip, which will help. The same tires should seat with a floor pump on the Iron Cross or other Stan's mtb rims. Some tires are very loose and need a compressor regardless. For sealing air-tight it is very important to watch the tubeless kit video, which shows the steps necessary and how to check for leaks.
    Just mounted today Hutchinson Secteur 28x700c tubeless on ZTR Alpha's (Version 1) no rim strip, sealant used, floor pumped to 90 psi, Rode 30 miles. No problems, comfy grippy tires, ideal for hard cornering and descending.
    Last edited by dwt; 06-13-2013 at 12:23 PM.
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bulerias View Post
    I was about to start a thread on whether I would be nuts to inject two ounces of Stan's with a hypodermic into a 29" tube - can't find a Slime Tube in 29" - and just patch the hole in the tube and install.
    Nuts? Not particularly, in this group...a bit odd? Perhaps.

  13. #13
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    If you want sealant in a tube, get one with a removable valve core, and just put it in that way. No patching needed.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    Just mounted today Hutchinson Secteur 28x700c tubeless on ZTR Alpha's (Version 1) no rim strip, sealant used, floor pumped to 190 psi, Rode 30 miles. No problems, comfy grippy tires, ideal for hard cornering and descending.
    dwt - I assume you meant 90psi. I just mounted a set of these on some converted kinlin rims (that are way too narrow to appreciate the Secteurs) but I couldn't agree w/ you more. Some of the best tires I have ever ridden. Around 90psi and they were comfy and handled great!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by crossracer View Post
    Thanks everyone . I went and used a large compressor and got it set.
    But I didn't hear the pop, so I tried again no pop. But tire is holding air and I'll ride it tonight and see what happens.

    And I can allways go back to tubes. That's true. Just heard great things about stans and wanted to try it myself.

    They are ust tires, but not ust rims.

    I'll see how things go

    Bill
    Walmart will sell you a decent compressor for like $60 and as others have said, they're useful for all kinds of other stuff besides blowing up tires. Another trick is to use a CO2 for your initial (sealant-free) inflation; that gets the bead set in the the rim and if you do it with the valve core removed it's easy to let the air out, add the sealant then use a hi-flow floor pump to re-inflate. I'm told that sealant doesn't react well to CO2 but that may be BS...

    Hopefully your test rides work out OK, if not then please post your exact tire and rim combo and maybe someone around here can offer a tip. You didn't mention if you were using tape or a rubber rim strip or what...

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by bulerias View Post
    I was about to start a thread on whether I would be nuts to inject two ounces of Stan's with a hypodermic into a 29" tube - can't find a Slime Tube in 29" - and just patch the hole in the tube and install. You could also inject a tube and carry it as a spare, to get you home through cactus country without attempting to remove every tiny spine.

    I know, why not just go tubeless. Because I don't really want to have to know that much and don't care about the weight. The only time I worry about rotating mass is when the mass is me rotating OTB.

    As to getting a tire to air up without a compressor, there was an old method for car tires way back when using a rope around the circumference of the tread to push the bead out to the rim. Try tying a piece of cord around it and wind it tight with a stick to hold the bead out. As a bush repair system - if it works - you can't beat the weight of ten feet of cord, which has many uses.
    If you have a presta valve w/out a removable core, you can take the knob off the needle with plyers. the valve will fall into the tire, but you can then add sealant with a tube. You usually have to find the valve push it back in after you've added sealant.
    All shraders have a removable core.

  17. #17
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    Not happy with no tubes system

    Quote Originally Posted by ElwoodT View Post
    If you have a presta valve w/out a removable core, you can take the knob off the needle with plyers. the valve will fall into the tire, but you can then add sealant with a tube. You usually have to find the valve push it back in after you've added sealant.
    All shraders have a removable core.
    Good luck with that!

    I have done it with inner tubes. Do not want to even think about doing it with a mounted tire.
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  18. #18
    B.Ike
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    ^^this is in response to a dude ready to inject sealant with a hypodermic needle into a tube.

  19. #19
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    Not happy with no tubes system

    Quote Originally Posted by ElwoodT View Post
    ^^this is in response to a dude ready to inject sealant with a hypodermic needle into a tube.
    Then make yourself clear:
    Quote Originally Posted by ElwoodT View Post
    the valve will fall into the tire...
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  20. #20
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    Not happy with no tubes system

    Ok, got a ride in and both tires holding air. That part is nice.

    Bad tire choice, that's my fault. Lol lol

    So I'm going to remount old tires back on rim and see how that goes. At least I know rims hold air now.

    But I definetly need to change out the tires.

    Bill

  21. #21
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    For the record, you have to use a big enough needle so the Stan's won't clog the needle; about a 22 ga seems to work. Unfortunately, the Stans won't heal that sort of tear very well, so you have to patch it. But the test pinhole I put in the tube before installing it sealed in a few seconds and held air overnight.

    Unscrewing the valve end seems like a really good option. I'd get a removable valve Presta except I have enough trouble just getting 29 tubes around here let alone removable valve ones. Thanks for that tip, Elwood T.

    Slime road tubes in 700c 23 presta are unavailable around here - ?? - so making your own is the other option.

    The problem around here is cactus and when you get that in the casing, putting another tube in is not going to work unless you spend ages getting every spine out. So carrying a spare tube with slime in it already makes sense to me. Even if you go tubeless, if you need to do a bush repair with a tube on a tubeless setup, having slime in there will deal with existing casing spines and such.

    I'd go tubeless, but I change tires frequently depending upon where I'm riding and tubes make that so quick and mindless.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSU Alum View Post
    Some tires, such as any Continental RaceSport model, just can't be used effectively tubeless.
    Compared to the Supersonics, My Racesports set-up pretty easy...

  23. #23
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    If you do any kind of tubeless yourself, it is very much worth it to spend 200.00 or so on a compressor. Plus.....it makes your home garage "shop" seem super pro! The other uses are really nice too.

  24. #24
    dwt
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    Not happy with no tubes system

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy13 View Post
    dwt - I assume you meant 90psi.
    !
    Heh. Even I'm not fat enough for more than 90. Even if 190 was achievable on my compressor or floor pump, tire would blow off rim and launch into outer space.

    Further hijacking this thread into road territory:

    I would highly recommend these tires to mtb'ers crossing over to road. They sort of feel motorcyclish. Glued to the pavement on corners; soft & vibrationless on descents. Best way to feel mtb'ish on road bike, fat tubeless tires.

    Only drawback maybe for big time climbers: lesser rolling resistance offset by greater weight.

    See Lennard Zinn;

    http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/...rethren_209268

    One final caveat to roadies. These tires are tall. The rear would not fit through my rear brake caliper, a no name Chinese carbon thingie from eBay. I found an old pair of Ultegras in my brake drawer and they fit. Front no problem
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by bulerias View Post

    Unscrewing the valve end seems like a really good option. I'd get a removable valve Presta except I have enough trouble just getting 29 tubes around here let alone removable valve ones. Thanks for that tip, Elwood T.

    Slime road tubes in 700c 23 presta are unavailable around here - ?? - so making your own is the other option.

    The problem around here is cactus and when you get that in the casing, putting another tube in is not going to work unless you spend ages getting every spine out. So carrying a spare tube with slime in it already makes sense to me. Even if you go tubeless, if you need to do a bush repair with a tube on a tubeless setup, having slime in there will deal with existing casing spines and such.

    I'd go tubeless, but I change tires frequently depending upon where I'm riding and tubes make that so quick and mindless.
    For your 29 tires use a more readily available 26x2.1-2.5 tube. They s-t-r-e-t-c-h easily enough to work. Just inflate a little to get one on the rim. Cheaper, lighter and seem to be less prone to pinch flats.

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