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  1. #1
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    Non-UST tire on UST rim tubeless?

    can i run a normally beaded (non ust, non tlr, non 2bliss, etc) on a ust rim with sealant and expect it to hold?
    something about the west coast...it makes me wanna ride

  2. #2
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    Maybe...

  3. #3
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    I am running non TLR or non UST versions of Conti and Geax tires on UST rims (Enve and Easton) tubeless w/sealant without issue.

  4. #4
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    With stans rims you can. Any other rim is going to be an experement though.

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  5. #5
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    Mavic UST rims are fine for ghetto tubeless if you use the right tire. I have found that the WTB Mutano or Bronson Race tires work well with about 2 ounces of Stans. No burps or torn sidewalls in rocky conditions on a full suspension bike with a 155lb rider. I didn't have good luck with Kendas or Panaracers. Lots of burping and torn sidewalls.

  6. #6
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    I've run Mavic C29SSMAX UST rims with Stans fluid successfully with regular (non-UST or UST ready) tires, including Geax Saguero, Kenda Nevegal, Maxxis Crossmark and Ignitor. But not recommended by either the tire or wheel manufacturers, so you take your chances. I ride XC, don't do big drops and try not to bash into rocks. But I do weigh 200 lbs and never burped a tire.

  7. #7
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    If you can't get a non UST tire to work on a UST rim, use a lap or 2 of gorrilla tape as a rim strip. This will take up space in the rim to make the tire fit tighter. Works great for loose fitting tires.
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  8. #8
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    Has anyone tried this with Schwalbe tires (Rocket Rons) on Mavic UST rims? These are the older non-TL ready ones.

    Thanks,
    Bob

  9. #9
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    ive been running minions (DHF & DHR) on mavic 823s with stans for over a year with zero issues other than some seeping through the sidewall which lasts for a month or so after i refill the stans. no burps, blowoffs, sidewall tears, etc. after the initial install i can unseat the bead to clean out alien babies before i refill and get it to seat again with a shitty floor pump.

    im 215-220# w/o gear and ride on tons of rocks and often times dont hold lines very well. in fact, blew straight through a prickly pear in sedona on sunday... was committed and sure as hell wasnt gonna stop on top of it. i checked both tires last night and had negligible air-loss.

    i guess that is really more props for the minions than anything but i havent had issues with that non-recommended set-up (non-ust tire/ust rim).

    that said i want to try something else in the front that is a true 2.5 as we all know the minions are more like 2.3s.

    thinking about the specialized butcher 2.5 or conti der kaiser 2.5.

    has anyone tried either of those tires on ust rims (specifically, mavic 823s)???

  10. #10
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    Maxxis Ignitor with a Mavic SLR wheel work great...

  11. #11
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    Im going to bump this thread because I've got a set of Shimano XT UST wheels coming that I'd like to use with non-UST Kenda Nevegals. I'd like to run thee tubeless, ideally with simply Stan's. Anyone have experience with this tire/wheels combo?
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  12. #12
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    I'd say pour in some Stan's and give it a shot. Bear in mind that every tire has different porosity.

    I tried the non-UST mated to UST rim trick myself:

    Rear Mountain King and front X King on Crossmax SLR. The rear Mountain King held air okay but the front X King was impossible and kept seeping air and Stans bubbles out the sidewall, even after 5-6 attempts and adding more Stan's.

    I eventually changed it for a UST X King. Although much heavier, I haven't added air to the thing since and ride with confidence. -I suppose it was designed to work with the UST wheel.

    I personally won't mix and match from here out.

  13. #13
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    i run non ust- kenda nevegals on mavic crossmax st and stans with no issues...seals right up with floor pump!!!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeti575inCA View Post
    i run non ust- kenda nevegals on mavic crossmax st and stans with no issues...seals right up with floor pump!!!
    Would you mind elaborating a bit? I planned on pouring the Stan's in, seating the bead with a floor pump or compressor, then rotating the wheel to spread out the Stan's, then putting more air in.

    Kinds curious how you did it because it sounds like you did it correctly. Thanks a ton.
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  15. #15
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    I seat a non-UST tire with a tube first. Take out the tube by opening one side of the tire only. Pull the loose bead as far to the outside of the rim sidewall as possible once the tube has been removed. Pour in some Stan's. Use a floor pump without the valve core to seat the second bead. If your floor pump is too weak, use a compressor. Once the second bead has popped into place. Put in the core, pump it up, and spin the wheel to get the Stan's to move around. Sometimes you need to add a little extra Stan's if the tire doesn't seal completely after the first or second ride. This works for me.

  16. #16
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    Just setup non UST Specialized Captain and Purgatory they were both the control level. Mounted them on Shimano XTR Trail WH-M988 UST wheels. Getting them on the rim wasn't that bad but a little tough as I didn't use any soapy water. Was able to inflate with just a floor pump very little effort needed. I didn't put any Stan's in them and let them sit over night inflated. In the morning they were both flat. Tossed in a little Stan's and the next day they had held their air perfectly. I have put two days on them now and no issues.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryansod View Post
    Just setup non UST Specialized Captain and Purgatory they were both the control level. Mounted them on Shimano XTR Trail WH-M988 UST wheels. Getting them on the rim wasn't that bad but a little tough as I didn't use any soapy water. Was able to inflate with just a floor pump very little effort needed. I didn't put any Stan's in them and let them sit over night inflated. In the morning they were both flat. Tossed in a little Stan's and the next day they had held their air perfectly. I have put two days on them now and no issues.
    Any Purgatory that isn't the Grid model (full UST) is still their 2Bliss casing which uses a UST spec bead. Same for the Captain (with the exception of the wire bead "sport" model) so they would mount up with ease on a UST wheel.

  18. #18
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    I have had fairly good success running tube tires on UST rims (819 and 823). Some tires even "pop" like a UST tire will (or should), but it is always an experiment.

    A couple of tube tires that "pop" when installed have been a Panaracer Fire FR (2.4) on an 823 and the Kenda Blue Groove (2.35) on an 819. Both those tires even hold air well (with sealant). But there have been failures with other tires. And I still believe that a UST or Tubeless Ready tire on a UST rim is still more reliable in all ways than using a tube tire (I will not use a tube tire on the big bike that I jump off things with).

    Also, I have used some UST and tubeless ready tires that didn't seat that well. Still have to add air to a Cont Mountain King and a WTB Prowler. Both have sealant.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeti575inCA View Post
    i run non ust- kenda nevegals on mavic crossmax st and stans with no issues...seals right up with floor pump!!!
    just seated one side by hand..then seated by hand bead facing me leaving the bottom open to pour the stanz in and then seated by hand..pumped it up with my floor pump. Shook it to spread the liquid and done. I used 1 3/4 to 2 caps of stanz per tire...

  20. #20
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    ^^^^^^Thanks! Sounds pretty straight forward. I guess I'll know on Friday when my new wheels show up and I give this tubeless thing a try.
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  21. #21
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    I'm using a Panaracer Rampage and a Tioga Psycho Genius - both in 29" - on my Shimano MT-75 UST wheels without any issue.

    The Rampage did require initial setup with a tube to get a bead to seat, but no problems after that. The Psycho Genius require no additional work. Mounted up like a tubeless ready tire.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by happy_ending View Post
    that said i want to try something else in the front that is a true 2.5 as we all know the minions are more like 2.3s.

    thinking about the specialized butcher 2.5 or conti der kaiser 2.5.

    has anyone tried either of those tires on ust rims (specifically, mavic 823s)???
    With the 823 rims, I have been able to mount just about any non UST tire as long as it was not too loose (meaning, you can easily put it on without effort). I really liked the der Kaiser in terms of how grippy they are but they are really soft and wear out quickly (and at $80 a pop that sucks). Because they are soft, it makes for a noticeably slow rolling tire. I think it'd make a great front tire if you were looking to improve traction but on the rear, it is slow.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by TTTURNER View Post
    I seat a non-UST tire with a tube first. Take out the tube by opening one side of the tire only. Pull the loose bead as far to the outside of the rim sidewall as possible once the tube has been removed. Pour in some Stan's. Use a floor pump without the valve core to seat the second bead. If your floor pump is too weak, use a compressor. Once the second bead has popped into place. Put in the core, pump it up, and spin the wheel to get the Stan's to move around. Sometimes you need to add a little extra Stan's if the tire doesn't seal completely after the first or second ride. This works for me.
    I use this method for the Larsen TT tires. They are very stubborn to seat but this method works like a charm. Sometimes, I have to resort to using soapy water to make it work. Using a soft car wheel brush, I brush on soapy water around the rim and tire in the bead area (more sudsy the better); then pull the sidewalls of the tire so that it gets as close to the rim as possible, make sure the wheel is elevated off the ground so you're not undoing your work. Should air up with a little patience and practice.

    Also, some people use CO2 cartridges to blow up a tire but I've found the cold air will freeze the stan's sealant inside and you end up with those crazy rubber dingle balls inside your tire.

  24. #24
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    I've only used Non-UST on Stan's rims, tubeless. Never saw a need to use a UST. I've run 5 or 6 different tires successfully this way.

  25. #25
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    @VTSession,
    I have used the Nevegal's 235, and 210 for quite some time, have my reservations about going tubeless with them. I have never worn one out, everyone I have changed over the years has been to a worn/torn/ruptured sidewall. Don't know what you are riding where, but as mentioned, the Nevegals have IMO a compromised sidewall in order to get the weight down. They work well everywhere and although everyone bashes the rolling resistance (I don't know any better) I think they are a good all arounder, just not that great of a option to go tubeless with. I recently mounted up a trail bear to my Cross Max ST. Was a bit-ch to get seated, I use the do it hanging off of the bike stand with a compressor, and no stans first, once it seats the beads, just break one side on the bottom, and pour in a couple ounces of stans, air it up then hold the tire/rim pancake flat and rock it back and forth, side to side, flip it and do the same thing. This seems to be most effective as any seepage that you will have will be at the bead/sidewalls. Hope they work out well!

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