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  1. #1
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    New Wheel Advice

    I own a 2017 Santa Cruz 5010c R build and I'm looking to replace the stock 27.5" Novatec, WTB I23, 14gauge spoke, brass nipple wheels. I'm 58 years old, keep the wheels on the ground for the most part, not a basher, and weigh 180lbs. Tires are Maxxis Minion 2.3 DHR and 2.3 DHF. Colorado Cyclist will build the wheels.

    I'm going with Hope Pro 4 boost hubs, 32 3 cross DT Competition spokes and alloy nipples. If I decide on carbon rims I plan on Nox Teocalli rims as the SC Reserve's are out of my price range. If I go with aluminium rims I'm considering Stan's Arch or Raceface ARC 27's. The internal width of the rims listed is in the 26-27mm range and recommended for the tire width I'm running.

    Any input regarding the potential builds and rim width would be appreciated. My goal is a dependable rear hub (don't want to walk home when the Novatec falls apart) and a resonable weight savings. I sure would like the carbon build but it's more than twice the cost.

  2. #2
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    What's your price range?
    What will CC charge to build a set?
    Which DT Comp spoke (I believe there's the 1.8 and the 2.0 in the J bend).
    How important is durability?
    Alloy nipples will weigh a little less, but it's hard to beat the durability of brass.

  3. #3
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    I'd go DT350s and Nox Teos if you can swing it. DTs are super easy to serivice and engagement upgrades are readily available. I think the weight is comparable with the Hope Pro 4s. In my experience, having run I9, Project 321, American Classic, Kore,DT240/350,Hope pro 2/4 and Mavics. DTs are hard to beat. I have the original Nox AM275 rims, now called the Farlow. I have had this rim on the front my bike for over 6,000 miles running 20 PSI and I am 205 loaded. Still going strong and I tend to kill things. J

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSU Alum View Post
    What's your price range?
    What will CC charge to build a set?
    Which DT Comp spoke (I believe there's the 1.8 and the 2.0 in the J bend).
    How important is durability?
    Alloy nipples will weigh a little less, but it's hard to beat the durability of brass.
    CC has the build included in their pricing, DT J-bend Comps. 2.0-1.8, Want durability but as mentiond I'm not a masher, price isn't an issue as I can swing a carbon build if I can justify the extras expense.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogiKudo View Post
    I'd go DT350s and Nox Teos if you can swing it. DTs are super easy to serivice and engagement upgrades are readily available. I think the weight is comparable with the Hope Pro 4s. In my experience, having run I9, Project 321, American Classic, Kore,DT240/350,Hope pro 2/4 and Mavics. DTs are hard to beat. I have the original Nox AM275 rims, now called the Farlow. I have had this rim on the front my bike for over 6,000 miles running 20 PSI and I am 205 loaded. Still going strong and I tend to kill things. J
    I'm considering DT 350's as an option. It's a $73.00 upcharge over the hope hubs and then I would most likely upgrade the ratchet ring, so it does bring the cost up.

  6. #6
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    I like everything you're doing as is but I like 30mm (at least) on rim width.

    I like Raceface Arcs. Also have a look at Light Bicycle's carbon rims. I've built quite a few wheelsets with them. Nice rims.
    I like turtles

  7. #7
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    You're build is solid OP. I have a set of Hope's that I've built into two different sets of wheels. I think they are 7+ years old at the moment. My current 27.5 wheelset is Hope Pro 2 hubs, DT Comp spokes, brass ProLock nips, and Stan's Flow - the older ones that have a 27mm internal width. That wheelset has been nothing but reliable.

    If you're after a stiffer wheel, more precise steering, and a snappier feel, then go for the carbon. If you're after a little more comfort, want to save some cash, then go aluminum. I'm biased, but I would tip my hat to the Arch.
    The cake is a lie.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiboy View Post
    CC has the build included in their pricing, DT J-bend Comps. 2.0-1.8, Want durability but as mentiond I'm not a masher, price isn't an issue as I can swing a carbon build if I can justify the extras expense.
    I'd go with brass nipples. You'll have a much stronger build with very little weight penalty. Alloy nipples are the weak link.
    But have you looked at something like an Ibis 735? I don't know how it prices out compared to your build or if it's in your price range, but it's a nice set (loud hubs, though). My wife has them, I'm on the 742 and love those as well, for 2.6" tires.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSU Alum View Post
    I'd go with brass nipples. You'll have a much stronger build with very little weight penalty. Alloy nipples are the weak link.
    Much stronger? I've used alloy nipples for dozens of my own wheels over the years and have yet to have a single problem with any of them.

    I don't mean to be argumentative but IME they're not a weak link unless corrosion is an issue. Brass is fine too.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Much stronger? I've used alloy nipples for dozens of my own wheels over the years and have yet to have a single problem with any of them.

    I don't mean to be argumentative but IME they're not a weak link unless corrosion is an issue. Brass is fine too.
    I must agree with JB here. I one took a 24 hole road wheel, built with aluminum nipples, and destroyed it by slamming it repeatedly into a concrete slab. The rim disintegrated, some of the spokes snapped, and some nipples pulled through the rim, but not a single nipple was broken and I used them on a wheelset for my 26er mud bike that never goes far from home.

  11. #11
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    To the OP, be sure to factor in noise -- when coasting -- of Hope hubs vs. DT. Huge difference.


    Quote Originally Posted by kubikeman View Post
    If you're after a stiffer wheel, more precise steering, and a snappier feel, then go for the carbon. If you're after a little more comfort, want to save some cash, then go aluminum.

    Many/most people would disagree with this ^ overall statement. I think carbon rims end up giving a wheelset a more damp, comfortable feel, while aluminum tends to feel more harsh yet more precise.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Much stronger? I've used alloy nipples for dozens of my own wheels over the years and have yet to have a single problem with any of them.

    I don't mean to be argumentative but IME they're not a weak link unless corrosion is an issue. Brass is fine too.
    I and my son have broken alloy nips 6 or 7 times over the years. Never broken a brass one, never broken a spoke. Corrosion has never been the cause.
    I can only comment on my experiences, not anyone else's.

  13. #13
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    Hope is a good hub choice so is DT Swiss 350 for reliability.

    If you're frame can fit wider tires you may want to go to a 30mm width rim in case you decide to go bigger in the future. The wider contact patch from wider tires and wider rims can really help handling and confidence by not getting stuck between roots and rocks.

  14. #14
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    Hey, Thanks for all the replies! I know this is not an exact science and there are tons of options/configurations. In a nutshell, my goals are a to ditch the Novatec rear hub and have something dependable, while saving some weight with the build. My WTB I23's weigh 538 grams while the Stans Arch are 425 grams. I would also save by going with DT Comp 2.0-1.8 spokes vs the stock 14 gauge spokes. As far as alloy vs brass nipples, I'm stilll on the fence. No matter how I spec a new wheelset, it will be WAY nicer than my stock wheels. I know the Hope Pro 4 hubs are loud but they seem to be a decent value. As mentioned, the build with the DT 350 are $73.00 more plus approx $100.00 to upgrade the star ratchet. At that point I'm in I9 hub pricing territory.

  15. #15
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    You could mix up your hubs. Go hope up front and something nicer in the back.

  16. #16
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    Finally have the cash to order a wheelset! Going with Hope Pro 4 hubs DT Comp butted spokes, alloy nipples, need to decide on the alloy rims to go with my 2.3" Maxxis DHF/DHR.

    I'm considering;

    Stans Arch MK3 26mm internal width 420 grams
    DT EX 471 25mm internal width 500 grams
    Raceface ARC 27mm internal width 475 grams.

    Any sugesstions would be appreciated!

  17. #17
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    I still think you're too narrow on the rim choices. Of those three, I'd go with the Arcs.
    Have you looked at Stan's Flows?
    I like turtles

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    I still think you're too narrow on the rim choices. Of those three, I'd go with the Arcs.
    Have you looked at Stan's Flows?
    Thanks for the input! Yes, I have looked at the Flows (nice option)and also Stan's wide right concept. I don't plan on running tires any wider than my current 2.3's. I have my FB if Ii need to go wide.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    I still think you're too narrow on the rim choices. Of those three, I'd go with the Arcs.
    Have you looked at Stan's Flows?
    Agreed. Based on your tire choice I'd go with the Stan's Flows. You'll have a bombproof set of wheels.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

  20. #20
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    Coming from the road I just cannot stand the loud hubs MTB have. Fast downhills where pedaling is not needed becomes a noise bomb blasting down the mountain. So absolutely no offense but I found Hopes to be one of the loudest out there. I found only two acceptable hubs. The Onyx is too heavy now but will be lighter soon and Projest 321 quiet. It seems many like em brash and fine but....when I cannot speak to my partner while freewheeling, then it is time for something different. Bikes imho should be as quiet as they are eco friendly. I went 321on latest build. Onyx next time?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiboy View Post
    Finally have the cash to order a wheelset! Going with Hope Pro 4 hubs DT Comp butted spokes, alloy nipples, need to decide on the alloy rims to go with my 2.3" Maxxis DHF/DHR.

    I'm considering;

    Stans Arch MK3 26mm internal width 420 grams
    DT EX 471 25mm internal width 500 grams
    Raceface ARC 27mm internal width 475 grams.

    Any sugesstions would be appreciated!
    I was ordering the MK3 from my wheel builder but he strongly recommended I try the DT Swiss XR 391. Better finish and build so I went for it.New Wheel Advice-a7b053cc-b3a8-4760-b32b-15408ea1dea8.jpg

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiboy View Post
    Finally have the cash to order a wheelset! Going with Hope Pro 4 hubs DT Comp butted spokes, alloy nipples, need to decide on the alloy rims to go with my 2.3" Maxxis DHF/DHR.

    I'm considering;

    Stans Arch MK3 26mm internal width 420 grams
    DT EX 471 25mm internal width 500 grams
    Raceface ARC 27mm internal width 475 grams.

    Any sugesstions would be appreciated!
    Given your goals, for the DT Swiss, you should be looking at the is the XM421 or 481. The EX 471 is a very robust rim that many use for downhilling.

    You should also consider adding the WTB KOM i29 to your list at 465 grams.

    I know you are reluctant to go on the wider end, but keep in mind that new tires are being designed around wider rims and rim sizing for trail and enduro bikes seems to be stabilizing at mostly 30mm.
    Riding slowly since 1977.

  23. #23
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    I've got Raceface aEffect 30 (30mm internal width) aluminums, with Minion DHF 2.3s and love the way they feel. and aEffects are one of the lightest aluminums.

  24. #24
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    Theres probably more good tires out there that work with ~25mm rims than there are that work with ~30mm rims.

    I just built up a set of spank oozy trail 295's for a buddy. 24.5mm wide, so they're narrow by todays standard. These are amazing wheels and all the tires we're planning to run work excellent on these rims. They're plenty wide to be supportive.

    I put arc27's on my own bike. It replaced a KOM23, and honestly 27mm feels a lot like 23mm 95% of the time. Sometimes I think I can feel a little more support in corners, but its probably that im excited about my new wheels

    Theres so many good rims out there. If you're buying something 25-30mm wide, you're in the sweet spot and you're good to go.

    Heres an unpopular suggestion... mavic 827's! They're back, and they dont weigh 700 pounds anymore.

  25. #25
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    Thanks for all the input, got me thinking about going wider! The Dt XM 481's looks like a nice option in addition to the Stan's Flow if I go wider. Unfortunately, the heavier rim weight is a downside of a wider rim.

  26. #26
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    If cost is not an issue, I feel like you could get a way nicer build than Hope hubs with Stans rims. Those are both good options but in the realm of really nice wheel builds, I would put those at the low budget end. If money were no object I would look at Onyx, I9, or Profile Elite hubs and lace them into a carbon rim. If you didn't want to splurge for the carbon rims, I have had awesome luck with the Easton Arc rims, which they make from 27mmID all the way up to 45mmID. I have ran both the 27s and the 45s and have been extremely impressed with how easily they build up and how much abuse they will take.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiboy View Post
    Thanks for all the input, got me thinking about going wider! The Dt XM 481's looks like a nice option in addition to the Stan's Flow if I go wider. Unfortunately, the heavier rim weight is a downside of a wider rim.
    I have two 29er bikes (SC Hightower & Yeti SB5.5c). On one (SC), I have a set of Stans Arch MK3 with Hope Pro4 hubs (run DHR2's on F/B) as well as a set of Carbonfan 29mm internal with DT Swiss 350 (54t upgrade) that run DHF 2.5 on the front and Aggressor 2.3's on the back (Yeti). In terms of comparison, I can't tell the difference on the front wheels -- both feel plenty stiff and run true. I can tell a subtle difference on the back. I can feel a subtle flex on the alloy rims in the turns compared to the carbon wheel. That said, the performance and my confidence is identical for both. I weigh 180 lbs..

    I like the wider rim in front since I can run 2.5's and the shape of the wheel is perfect. If I were to redo my carbon choice, I'd give a 26mm internal rim a longer look. It didn't cross my mind when purchasing to run different internal widths but since I run 2.3's on the rear, the narrower rim might run a little better. Also, the wider rim (29mm) with 2.3's allows for more scuffing on sides (I just returned from Moab and Sedona with lots of rocks).

    BTW - the Carbonfan wheels were only $100.00 more than the Stans ...

  28. #28
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    I ended up going with a build by Colorado Cyclist using their 10% off promotion. CC did a nice job on the build and the price was $550.00 + shipping. Hope Pro 4 hubs, DT Competition butted spokes, brass nipples, Stans Arch rims. I don't plan to ride any tires wider than 2.3'so I decided to go with the Arch rims over the Flows for weight savings and more rim protection in the rocks. Personally, I don't think 3 mm's makes much of a difference. I plan on buying a 27.5+ bike soon so I will have plenty of wide tire options later.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New Wheel Advice-img_20180413_184052486.jpg  

    New Wheel Advice-img_20180413_184106885.jpg  


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