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New Project 321 rear hub leaking oil. Now sounds much louder.

33K views 246 replies 41 participants last post by  ShooterMcDally 
#1 ·
I received my new hub a few weeks ago and noticed oil all over the hub. It's the "quiet" version and it did sound quiet at the time. I had the wheel built around it and now the hub is much louder. I'm assuming it's because most of the remaining oil leaked out as the hub still shows signs of oil leakage. I contacted Project 321 about it, but they basically told me not to worry about it and ride it.
What's the point of adding more oil if it's going to leak out?
I'd like to open it up and investigate, but P321 doesn't have a manual for the new hub. Tips?
 
#46 ·
I have the exact same issue. I have been in contact with Jake at P321. Have to say that their contact has been piss poor. Granted I emailed them during the move. Their phone didn't work. Got an email back about 10 days ago asking some questions. I responded with answers and followed up with another email. Haven't heard anything back. It's a safety issue for sure.

Jake said they were redesigning the pawls and they would be available in a few weeks.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 
#49 ·
Well I think we need to stay on him. It's unacceptable that he hasn't taken a stronger approach to at least communicate. He admitted to the issue. If he doesn't have an answer next week, I will likely pull the hub, ask for a refund and go a different route.

My first email to him was Oct 31. It took 14 days for a reply and no reply since.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 
#53 ·
I intentionally got the 144 POE hub with quiet pawls because I was worried about the slippage issue. It has been flawless all season. No oil leaks either.

Not to rub salt in the wound, but my 321 hubs are one of the few bike related purchases that have actually worked well for me this year.
 
#72 ·
Now you guys got me worried there's something wrong with my hub. I get loud chain pops any time I ratchet the cranks and get back on the power. I thought it was the chain walking up the chainring or something as I never closely checked my chainline (yet), but I'm starting to think it may be coming from the hub?

Is anyone else experiencing the popping sound with the 144 POE quiet option? Is the engagement issue only happening with the two pawl engagement option?
 
#73 ·
Now you guys got me worried there's something wrong with my hub. I get loud chain pops any time I ratchet the cranks and get back on the power. I thought it was the chain walking up the chainring or something as I never closely checked my chainline (yet), but I'm starting to think it may be coming from the hub?

Is anyone else experiencing the popping sound with the 144 POE quiet option? Is the engagement issue only happening with the two pawl engagement option?
Is your ring round or oval? Definitely not the chain because my drivetrains are brand new.
 
#81 ·
P321 said they were redesigning the pawls and it would be a few weeks until available. I also think the grease or oil in the hub plays a roll too. Cold weather has worsened the issue of non engagement. Logically means pawls are sticking open sometimes.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 
#84 ·
Confirmed I got the popping sound. I rode a trail today that had a number of Punchy climbs and I had a couple low-level pops and then on one tough climb I had a pretty loud POP no loss of traction or engagement but a bit unnerving nonetheless. BTW Its 70 degs in SoCal and I am riding a normal Wolftooth chain ring, drive train is in good condition.

I'm curious to see what comes of this.
 
#91 ·
Hi all,
First let me apologize for the very poor response from our company over the last couple months. As somebody mentioned we have been in the middle of a company move and we ran into some unexpected technical difficulties during this time. One being a phone connection issue and the other being an email break down as we changed the way our emails where routed. We also lost a few employees who could not move with us so our technical responses got narrowed down to only two people. I wont bore you with details about all this but I can confirm these issues are fixed and we are starting to catch up on emails and respond to our customers.

In regards to the popping sounds we have identified the issue as incorrectly produced product from our EDM vendor. This would include pawls and / or drive ring. These are the only parts we have made outside our facility. Unfortunately these parts appear to have been mixed into regular shipments for an unknown period of time so we can not track them to a date range.

We will of course replace and warranty any drivers and parts that are problematic.
If you sent an email and did not get a response please call or send another email. It may have gotten lost in our email debacle.
Someone will get back to you asap.

While Im here typing Id like to take this time to clarify a few things.

1. This is not a design issue. Our new driver has functioned flawlessly since
its release in January and has only recently shown any signs of popping as a result of
improperly manufactured pawls that slipped passed our QC process.

2. This is not wide spread. To this date we have been informed of 15-20 hubs that are popping and only a few that have skipped.
In relation to our sales this is a warranty number far below industry standards.

3. We are not redesigning the pawls. BUT we are now producing the pawls and drive rings 100% in house. With our move we purchased our own
EDM machine that will allow us to better control this process and avoid having issues like this again.
The in house production is around 2 weeks away from shipping. The new EDM is making parts but there is still heat treating, magnet bonding, etc.
Ideally we replace any problematic drivers with new, in house produced parts. If your hub is just making a pop now and then I would
recommend waiting for the new production. If your hub has skipped please call us and well get you something shipped right away.

Thank you all for your support and purchasing Project321 products. We will stand behind our products and make
sure you are happy with your purchase.

Again, Id like to apologize for the poor correspondence recently from out team. We really appreciate every body's patience.
This has been a huge move for our small company and we are super excited to get back up and running here in Bend Oregon.
 
#92 ·
Hi all,
First let me apologize for the very poor response from our company over the last couple months. As somebody mentioned we have been in the middle of a company move and we ran into some unexpected technical difficulties during this time. One being a phone connection issue and the other being an email break down as we changed the way our emails where routed. We also lost a few employees who could not move with us so our technical responses got narrowed down to only two people. I wont bore you with details about all this but I can confirm these issues are fixed and we are starting to catch up on emails and respond to our customers.

In regards to the popping sounds we have identified the issue as incorrectly produced product from our EDM vendor. This would include pawls and / or drive ring. These are the only parts we have made outside our facility. Unfortunately these parts appear to have been mixed into regular shipments for an unknown period of time so we can not track them to a date range.

We will of course replace and warranty any drivers and parts that are problematic.
If you sent an email and did not get a response please call or send another email. It may have gotten lost in our email debacle.
Someone will get back to you asap.

While Im here typing Id like to take this time to clarify a few things.

1. This is not a design issue. Our new driver has functioned flawlessly since
its release in January and has only recently shown any signs of popping as a result of
improperly manufactured pawls that slipped passed our QC process.

2. This is not wide spread. To this date we have been informed of 15-20 hubs that are popping and only a few that have skipped.
In relation to our sales this is a warranty number far below industry standards.

3. We are not redesigning the pawls. BUT we are now producing the pawls and drive rings 100% in house. With our move we purchased our own
EDM machine that will allow us to better control this process and avoid having issues like this again.
The in house production is around 2 weeks away from shipping. The new EDM is making parts but there is still heat treating, magnet bonding, etc.
Ideally we replace any problematic drivers with new, in house produced parts. If your hub is just making a pop now and then I would
recommend waiting for the new production. If your hub has skipped please call us and well get you something shipped right away.

Thank you all for your support and purchasing Project321 products. We will stand behind our products and make
sure you are happy with your purchase.

Again, Id like to apologize for the poor correspondence recently from out team. We really appreciate every body's patience.
This has been a huge move for our small company and we are super excited to get back up and running here in Bend Oregon.
Hello Jake,
I hope the move to the facility in OR went well for your company. My P321 with 216 POE and quiet pawls has both popping sound and slippage. So should I wait for the new production then? Do I need to send the wheel back to Fanatik or can I replace the part myself?

Thank you
 
#95 ·
Same popping/slipping issue here. Mine are unridable after about 6 or 8 rides. I replaced my entire drivetrain chasing the issue... cassette, chain, drive ring, and rear derailleur. Not cheap, and I'm not happy.

I called and spoke to them in early November. They told me about the issue, and said call back in 3 weeks and parts would be ready to ship.

I gave them some extra time and called back today. Spoke to Sam and was told I would get a call back in an hour or two, but never did.

I will be requesting a complete refund if this issue has not been resolved for me in very early January.
 
#96 ·
Same popping/slipping issue here. Mine are unridable after about 6 or 8 rides. I replaced my entire drivetrain chasing the issue... cassette, chain, drive ring, and rear derailleur. Not cheap, and I'm not happy.

I called and spoke to them in early November. They told me about the issue, and said call back in 3 weeks and parts would be ready to ship.

I gave them some extra time and called back today. Spoke to Sam and was told I would get a call back in an hour or two, but never did.

I will be requesting a complete refund if this issue has not been resolved for me in very early January.
I have the exact same problem as yours. But I'm willing to wait for the new parts because it's winter here in MN. Hopefully they won't take forever for the parts to arrive though.
 
#108 ·
I’m in the same boat, built a new SS in late July with G2 216 POE Quite pawl hubs. I noticed an occasional pop immediately. I finished my season with a 100 mile and a 12 hour on these wheels and plenty of long rides until winter hit. The poping progressively got worse as mileage went up. I thought it was a chain alignment issue too, measured my chain line 3X it was spot on. I changed from a 9 speed to an 11 speed chain for better retention, no luck. New Wolf Tooth chain ring & cog (so much less $ than a new 11 or 12 speed cassette, besides I don’t mind having even more gear options). Not a drive train problem. I disassembled the hub during the process & found very small slivers that had come off the square edge of the pawls where they engage the drive ring. A few pawls showed a slightly rounded or chamfered edge as opposed to a crisp square edge. No visible drive ring damage. My hub had grease from the factory. I clean 80% of it out and lubed it like my I9 hubs (a drop on each pawl & 1 drop every 120 degrees on the drive ring). Reassemble and beat the hell out of it. Still popping & getting worse. I almost bought a new frame thinking it was frame flex causing a chain alignment problem, because I couldn’t identify a visible problem with the free hub. But deep down I knew it was in the hub. I finally decided to call P321 & spoke with a very nice lady who seemed to be genuinely concerned. I sent in some pictures of the slivers I found in the hub & some details. A while later I had a message from Jake. I returned his call and was apologized to for the delay b/c they had just moved to Bend. Jake was very helpful and truly interested and concerned about my situation. He took a lot of time talking to me explaining about the QC problem with the pawls and that they have just moved production internal.

I have been on I9 wheels for many years on all my bikes and am a true believer in their products and I9 as a company & will always be. But with that said I was tired of listening to that loud free hub over the course of a 12, 24 hour or 100 mile ride. Being a single speed rider a high POE is a must so is a very low drag hub! P321 seemed like the answer, & if they can resolve this pawl issue it will be. Based on the little experience I have with the few people representing P321 I have the upmost confidence that it will be resolved. I do my best to support small American companies like I9 & P321. I also understand that all companies have growing pains especially when bringing a totally new design to market. I don’t mind being patient and willing to help them out with testing or trying new products. If anything it helps me become more knowledgeable so I can help my friends make educated decisions.

I am not affiliated with P321, or I9 in any way. Just an average consumer who really has to work OT & save up to afford boutique products, I am by no means well off. But I think if we all are patient, and try to put ourselves in P321’s shoes for a moment to realize how time consuming it is to develop a trouble free product it will pay off with an excellent product that is quite unique.

Or maybe they will drop the ball and I’ll be eating my words... But I hope not - HA!
 
#109 ·
I'm in the same boat, built a new SS in late July with G2 216 POE Quite pawl hubs. I noticed an occasional pop immediately. I finished my season with a 100 mile and a 12 hour on these wheels and plenty of long rides until winter hit. The poping progressively got worse as mileage went up. I thought it was a chain alignment issue too, measured my chain line 3X it was spot on. I changed from a 9 speed to an 11 speed chain for better retention, no luck. New Wolf Tooth chain ring & cog (so much less $ than a new 11 or 12 speed cassette, besides I don't mind having even more gear options). Not a drive train problem. I disassembled the hub during the process & found very small slivers that had come off the square edge of the pawls where they engage the drive ring. A few pawls showed a slightly rounded or chamfered edge as opposed to a crisp square edge. No visible drive ring damage. My hub had grease from the factory. I clean 80% of it out and lubed it like my I9 hubs (a drop on each pawl & 1 drop every 120 degrees on the drive ring). Reassemble and beat the hell out of it. Still popping & getting worse. I almost bought a new frame thinking it was frame flex causing a chain alignment problem, because I couldn't identify a visible problem with the free hub. But deep down I knew it was in the hub. I finally decided to call P321 & spoke with a very nice lady who seemed to be genuinely concerned. I sent in some pictures of the slivers I found in the hub & some details. A while later I had a message from Jake. I returned his call and was apologized to for the delay b/c they had just moved to Bend. Jake was very helpful and truly interested and concerned about my situation. He took a lot of time talking to me explaining about the QC problem with the pawls and that they have just moved production internal.

I have been on I9 wheels for many years on all my bikes and am a true believer in their products and I9 as a company & will always be. But with that said I was tired of listening to that loud free hub over the course of a 12, 24 hour or 100 mile ride. Being a single speed rider a high POE is a must so is a very low drag hub! P321 seemed like the answer, & if they can resolve this pawl issue it will be. Based on the little experience I have with the few people representing P321 I have the upmost confidence that it will be resolved. I do my best to support small American companies like I9 & P321. I also understand that all companies have growing pains especially when bringing a totally new design to market. I don't mind being patient and willing to help them out with testing or trying new products. If anything it helps me become more knowledgeable so I can help my friends make educated decisions.

I am not affiliated with P321, or I9 in any way. Just an average consumer who really has to work OT & save up to afford boutique products, I am by no means well off. But I think if we all are patient, and try to put ourselves in P321's shoes for a moment to realize how time consuming it is to develop a trouble free product it will pay off with an excellent product that is quite unique.

Or maybe they will drop the ball and I'll be eating my words... But I hope not - HA!
I believe in P321 as well. Hopefully they will have a resolution by April as it's now winter here in MN. May i ask what kind of grease did you use on the P321 hub?
 
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