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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by krelldog View Post
    You noticed more drag on the noisy pawls vs the quiet ones?
    I guess not. Didn't even think about that until you asked.

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  2. #102
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    I'm running P321's magnetic engagement with the loud free hub. These have been bullet proof and hands down my favorite hubs. My bearings have out lasted my buddy's i9's and they engage quicker.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by pumpkinbiter View Post

    With our move we purchased our own EDM machine that will allow us to better control this process and avoid having issues like this again.

    The new EDM is making parts but there is still heat treating, magnet bonding, etc.
    Not every one here is into machining jargon. My assumption is that you're referring to electrical discharge machining.

    Perhaps pumpkinbiter can share what this fine piece of equipment does?
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  4. #104
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    Has anyone got replacement pawls yet or heard back from P321? I email a couple weeks ago and haven't had any response. I'm having the same occasional popping under load from the rear hub. I'll try calling this week.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottW View Post
    Has anyone got replacement pawls yet or heard back from P321? I email a couple weeks ago and haven't had any response. I'm having the same occasional popping under load from the rear hub. I'll try calling this week.
    I emailed Jake on Friday but no response yet.

  6. #106
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    Yeah I went through the folks that built my wheels, he said they were waiting and I could tell by his voice he was a bit irritated that it was taking so long. I asked for a set of the loud pawls in the mean time.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by bvader View Post
    Yeah I went through the folks that built my wheels, he said they were waiting and I could tell by his voice he was a bit irritated that it was taking so long. I asked for a set of the loud pawls in the mean time.
    I'm ok with waiting if I can at least get a response. I sent another email through the website today.

  8. #108
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    Iím in the same boat, built a new SS in late July with G2 216 POE Quite pawl hubs. I noticed an occasional pop immediately. I finished my season with a 100 mile and a 12 hour on these wheels and plenty of long rides until winter hit. The poping progressively got worse as mileage went up. I thought it was a chain alignment issue too, measured my chain line 3X it was spot on. I changed from a 9 speed to an 11 speed chain for better retention, no luck. New Wolf Tooth chain ring & cog (so much less $ than a new 11 or 12 speed cassette, besides I donít mind having even more gear options). Not a drive train problem. I disassembled the hub during the process & found very small slivers that had come off the square edge of the pawls where they engage the drive ring. A few pawls showed a slightly rounded or chamfered edge as opposed to a crisp square edge. No visible drive ring damage. My hub had grease from the factory. I clean 80% of it out and lubed it like my I9 hubs (a drop on each pawl & 1 drop every 120 degrees on the drive ring). Reassemble and beat the hell out of it. Still popping & getting worse. I almost bought a new frame thinking it was frame flex causing a chain alignment problem, because I couldnít identify a visible problem with the free hub. But deep down I knew it was in the hub. I finally decided to call P321 & spoke with a very nice lady who seemed to be genuinely concerned. I sent in some pictures of the slivers I found in the hub & some details. A while later I had a message from Jake. I returned his call and was apologized to for the delay b/c they had just moved to Bend. Jake was very helpful and truly interested and concerned about my situation. He took a lot of time talking to me explaining about the QC problem with the pawls and that they have just moved production internal.

    I have been on I9 wheels for many years on all my bikes and am a true believer in their products and I9 as a company & will always be. But with that said I was tired of listening to that loud free hub over the course of a 12, 24 hour or 100 mile ride. Being a single speed rider a high POE is a must so is a very low drag hub! P321 seemed like the answer, & if they can resolve this pawl issue it will be. Based on the little experience I have with the few people representing P321 I have the upmost confidence that it will be resolved. I do my best to support small American companies like I9 & P321. I also understand that all companies have growing pains especially when bringing a totally new design to market. I donít mind being patient and willing to help them out with testing or trying new products. If anything it helps me become more knowledgeable so I can help my friends make educated decisions.

    I am not affiliated with P321, or I9 in any way. Just an average consumer who really has to work OT & save up to afford boutique products, I am by no means well off. But I think if we all are patient, and try to put ourselves in P321ís shoes for a moment to realize how time consuming it is to develop a trouble free product it will pay off with an excellent product that is quite unique.

    Or maybe they will drop the ball and Iíll be eating my words... But I hope not - HA!

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbell View Post
    Iím in the same boat, built a new SS in late July with G2 216 POE Quite pawl hubs. I noticed an occasional pop immediately. I finished my season with a 100 mile and a 12 hour on these wheels and plenty of long rides until winter hit. The poping progressively got worse as mileage went up. I thought it was a chain alignment issue too, measured my chain line 3X it was spot on. I changed from a 9 speed to an 11 speed chain for better retention, no luck. New Wolf Tooth chain ring & cog (so much less $ than a new 11 or 12 speed cassette, besides I donít mind having even more gear options). Not a drive train problem. I disassembled the hub during the process & found very small slivers that had come off the square edge of the pawls where they engage the drive ring. A few pawls showed a slightly rounded or chamfered edge as opposed to a crisp square edge. No visible drive ring damage. My hub had grease from the factory. I clean 80% of it out and lubed it like my I9 hubs (a drop on each pawl & 1 drop every 120 degrees on the drive ring). Reassemble and beat the hell out of it. Still popping & getting worse. I almost bought a new frame thinking it was frame flex causing a chain alignment problem, because I couldnít identify a visible problem with the free hub. But deep down I knew it was in the hub. I finally decided to call P321 & spoke with a very nice lady who seemed to be genuinely concerned. I sent in some pictures of the slivers I found in the hub & some details. A while later I had a message from Jake. I returned his call and was apologized to for the delay b/c they had just moved to Bend. Jake was very helpful and truly interested and concerned about my situation. He took a lot of time talking to me explaining about the QC problem with the pawls and that they have just moved production internal.

    I have been on I9 wheels for many years on all my bikes and am a true believer in their products and I9 as a company & will always be. But with that said I was tired of listening to that loud free hub over the course of a 12, 24 hour or 100 mile ride. Being a single speed rider a high POE is a must so is a very low drag hub! P321 seemed like the answer, & if they can resolve this pawl issue it will be. Based on the little experience I have with the few people representing P321 I have the upmost confidence that it will be resolved. I do my best to support small American companies like I9 & P321. I also understand that all companies have growing pains especially when bringing a totally new design to market. I donít mind being patient and willing to help them out with testing or trying new products. If anything it helps me become more knowledgeable so I can help my friends make educated decisions.

    I am not affiliated with P321, or I9 in any way. Just an average consumer who really has to work OT & save up to afford boutique products, I am by no means well off. But I think if we all are patient, and try to put ourselves in P321ís shoes for a moment to realize how time consuming it is to develop a trouble free product it will pay off with an excellent product that is quite unique.

    Or maybe they will drop the ball and Iíll be eating my words... But I hope not - HA!
    I believe in P321 as well. Hopefully they will have a resolution by April as it's now winter here in MN. May i ask what kind of grease did you use on the P321 hub?

  10. #110
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    Put in the noisey high engagement pawls. Seem to work fine. However their communication sucks in every way.

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  11. #111
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    I sent an e-mail a while back and Jake got back to me within 24 hours. He said the new pawls were in the works and he would send them out as soon as they were ready. No word on when they will be on their way, but I'm waiting patiently.
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  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by krelldog View Post
    I believe in P321 as well. Hopefully they will have a resolution by April as it's now winter here in MN. May i ask what kind of grease did you use on the P321 hub?
    I did not use any grease as I didn't have any Dumonde Tech grease which is what I think they use at the factory now. I cleaned most of the grease out (just left the holes in the hub body full of grease) and used Dumonde Tech free hub oil.

  13. #113
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    My 321 rear hub free wheels with a lot more drag than when new. When I spin it in my garage it comes to a stop after about three turns. It used to spend much longer.

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  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    My 321 rear hub free wheels with a lot more drag than when new. When I spin it in my garage it comes to a stop after about three turns. It used to spend much longer.
    Captain obvious here, are you sure it's not your brake rubbing?
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  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    My 321 rear hub free wheels with a lot more drag than when new. When I spin it in my garage it comes to a stop after about three turns. It used to spend much longer.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
    I highly doubt it's a hub issue unless it's broken.

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  16. #116
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    Thought I'd update that I emailed Project 321 again yesterday (Sunday) and Jake got back to me in a few hours. After supplying him with the information he needed Jake advised that they will get new pawls sent out as soon as they have them. I was very pleased to get such a fast response and on a weekend.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Captain obvious here, are you sure it's not your brake rubbing?
    Yes Sir. But I'll double check.
    Thanks.

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  18. #118
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    It's good to hear that you've had a fast response in the communication arena, but let's see how long it takes to get the new pawls.
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  19. #119
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    I have a buddy thatís getting a new Niner with a custom built P321 hub Wheelset. He gets stuff direct since heís hooked up as the Pres. Of CORBA an IMBA chapter. Anyway he said that the 216 POE only comes in loud version. Iím just wondering because Iím interested in the silent version for a new SS hubset and definitely want the higher 216 POE.
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  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardmtnbiker View Post
    Iím just wondering because Iím interested in the silent version for a new SS hubset and definitely want the higher 216 POE.
    I don't think they offer this as a 'Silent' version, just the quieter version with 2.5⁰ 144 POE.
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  21. #121
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    You can order your hub in either configuration as far as I'm aware. If you go to the website it allows you to choose either option.

    https://project321.com/product/boost-rear-hub/
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  22. #122
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    Mine is a 216 POE quiet hub, ordered it in late July.

  23. #123
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    So the leaky hub was just a one hub issues? People are still waiting for the new pawls?

    I really liked my I9 but it was just to loud, sounded awesome but couldnt have conversations unless I was pedaling. The 321 opting for quiet might be just what I am after. Pending these issues get fixed.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by machine4321 View Post
    The 321 opting for quiet might be just what I am after. Pending these issues get fixed.
    I'm pretty sure they are fixed, it's just a few of the early hubs that had non-terminal problems. One was the seal (resolved a while ago) and one was the pawls. The way it was explained to me was that they had one bad shipment of pawls that got mixed in with good pawls so no way to track the bad ones.

    I have complete confidence that Jake will make it right. It's still an excellent product.
    Rigid SS 29er
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  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    I'm pretty sure they are fixed, it's just a few of the early hubs that had non-terminal problems. One was the seal (resolved a while ago) and one was the pawls. The way it was explained to me was that they had one bad shipment of pawls that got mixed in with good pawls so no way to track the bad ones.

    I have complete confidence that Jake will make it right. It's still an excellent product.
    New pawls are not out yet.

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  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by bogeydog View Post
    New pawls are not out yet.
    I'm aware, I'm one of the guys waiting for them. What I was saying is that new hubs are not shipping with bad pawls.
    Rigid SS 29er
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  27. #127
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    I sent an e-mail this morning after being reminded by this thread, Jake got back to me this afternoon. The customer service continues to be excellent, my new parts should be on their way next week.
    Rigid SS 29er
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    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  28. #128
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    Good to hear!

  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    I sent an e-mail this morning after being reminded by this thread, Jake got back to me this afternoon. The customer service continues to be excellent, my new parts should be on their way next week.

    New parts as in new quiet pawls? I feel like there hasn't been a clear or even fuzzy expected date communicated yet for new/replacement pawls.

  30. #130
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    Poor customer service continues.... I was one of the first that had issues with the pawls. Took 4 weeks to get any response by email or phone. They were to send me temporary pawls until new ones were done. 2 weeks later nothing. Called and they dropped the ball and sent out temp balls. Nothing since. Sent new email and no response. I have had sets of their old version hubs and was a great proponent. Now they suck and I wish I had gone another direction.



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  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    I'm pretty sure they are fixed, it's just a few of the early hubs that had non-terminal problems. One was the seal (resolved a while ago) and one was the pawls. The way it was explained to me was that they had one bad shipment of pawls that got mixed in with good pawls so no way to track the bad ones.

    I have complete confidence that Jake will make it right. It's still an excellent product.
    I would say this is wrong. Mine isn't an early hub at all. Bought in Oct. If ones without the issue are in existence, then why not pull the good pawls from these hubs and send to customers with issues?

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  32. #132
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    Not intending a thread hijack, but for the fellas running the loud hubs, any skipping/popping issues?

  33. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottW View Post
    Has anyone got replacement pawls yet or heard back from P321? I email a couple weeks ago and haven't had any response. I'm having the same occasional popping under load from the rear hub. I'll try calling this week.

    Just got the replacement parts from P321 yesterday but I have changed the parts yet. I have the quiet pawls version, btw. Does anyone know any difference between Dumonde Tech Pro X Freehub oil grease and Dumonde Tech Freehub oil grease? Which one should be used on the P321 hub?

  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottW View Post
    Has anyone got replacement pawls yet or heard back from P321? I email a couple weeks ago and haven't had any response. I'm having the same occasional popping under load from the rear hub. I'll try calling this week.
    <br>

    Just got the replacement parts from P321 yesterday but I have not swapped out the parts yet. I have the quiet pawls version, btw. Does anyone know any difference between Dumonde Tech Pro X Freehub oil grease and Dumonde Tech Freehub oil grease? Which one should be used on the P321 hub?

  35. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by krelldog View Post
    <br>

    Just got the replacement parts from P321 yesterday but I have not swapped out the parts yet. I have the quiet pawls version, btw. Does anyone know any difference between Dumonde Tech Pro X Freehub oil grease and Dumonde Tech Freehub oil grease? Which one should be used on the P321 hub?
    Please clarify, you received *new* quiet pawls or new loud pawls?

  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by bvader View Post
    Please clarify, you received *new* quiet pawls or new loud pawls?

    The invoice says "quiet pawls".

  37. #137
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    @krelldog Thanks that is good to hear

  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by bvader View Post
    @krelldog Thanks that is good to hear
    No problem sir but unfortunately I can't test the wheel until mid April as it's winter here in MN.

  39. #139
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    I should have mine installed next week.

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  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by krelldog View Post
    Does anyone know any difference between Dumonde Tech Pro X Freehub oil grease and Dumonde Tech Freehub oil grease?

    Which one should be used on the P321 hub?
    One is a light grease on the viscosity level of Lubriplate #105.

    The oil is an oil, not a grease. It's a relatively light oil.

    As far as what Project 321 outlines for service, I have no idea. Their technical documents department is fundamentally nonexistent from what I've been able to determine.

    However, aside from the magnets, these freehubs function much like any other pawled freehub and I would make my selection of freehub lubricant based on your riding environment. Either grease or oil should work just fine, but I prolly wouldn't use grease in the winter though.
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  41. #141
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    Good to hear they are shipping out. Hopefully Ill see mine before the snow melts! Are you guys planning on using the grease or Dumonde Tech oil? All I have is oil and feel like that should be fine. Just wanted to get a feel for what everyone is going to do. When I asked Jake @ P321 he didn't make it seem like it really mattered all that much. FWIW I have the quite pawls but I'm not too concerned if they are a little louder with oil as opposed to grease.

  42. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbell View Post
    Good to hear they are shipping out. Hopefully Ill see mine before the snow melts! Are you guys planning on using the grease or Dumonde Tech oil? All I have is oil and feel like that should be fine. Just wanted to get a feel for what everyone is going to do. When I asked Jake @ P321 he didn't make it seem like it really mattered all that much. FWIW I have the quite pawls but I'm not too concerned if they are a little louder with oil as opposed to grease.
    They are sending out oil with the new parts I believe. I spoke to them today and really expressed my disappointment with their handling of this situation plus there constant poor communication. I will spare you the story, but they haven't been the quality company they have been in the past. I think their expansion has caused some real growing pains.

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  43. #143
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    The more that I think about the magnets and their function, I would prefer to be using a light, less restrictive lubricant like oil over the thicker grease to begin with. This thought would be reinforced by winter temps and use of a light lubricant.
    A bad day of cycling is better than a good day at work

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  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbell View Post
    Good to hear they are shipping out. Hopefully Ill see mine before the snow melts! Are you guys planning on using the grease or Dumonde Tech oil? All I have is oil and feel like that should be fine. Just wanted to get a feel for what everyone is going to do. When I asked Jake @ P321 he didn't make it seem like it really mattered all that much. FWIW I have the quite pawls but I'm not too concerned if they are a little louder with oil as opposed to grease.
    The replacement parts include a bottle of oil.

  45. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleared2land View Post
    The more that I think about the magnets and their function, I would prefer to be using a light, less restrictive lubricant like oil over the thicker grease to begin with. This thought would be reinforced by winter temps and use of a light lubricant.
    My thoughts exactly. #1 is free moving pawls, #2 is everything else IMO any kind of grease is going to add unnecessary drag or "stiction" to the pawls. Ill take a properly operating hub over a slightly quieter one any day!

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