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  1. #1
    A wheelist
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    New BWW Scandium wheelset. (Sob/Cry)

    A new Bicycle Wheel Warehouse wheelset arrived this morning and I'm quite upset. (sob/sniff) Why? you ask. These wheels are not for me; they're for The Woman I Mechanic For. I'll never (bawl) get to (sob) ride them.

    Andrea's a vet women racer, as light as a bird and she wins most of her races. She really needed a super light set of wheels to do her light body and bike weight justice. Her current wheels - Mavic 819/DT 240/DT Comp - weighed a whopping 2030 grams.

    BWW's Chris suggested this build -

    • BWW Pure XCR hubs - blue.
    • Alex Scandium rims (a feathery 315g each )
    • Sapim CX-Ray spokes - black.
    • Aluminum nipples - blue


    I weighed them -
    Wheelset - 1391g
    BWW skewers - 118g
    BWW rim tapes - 28g

    So the difference between Andrea's old wheels and the new ones is -
    Old 2030g
    New 1391g
    Difference - 639g or 22.5oz or 1lb 6.5oz.
    That is a whopping difference and she will feel this.

    Here's the linky to BWW's Scandium rim wheelsets with a plethora of custom options. This set prices out at $703.50.

    What can I say about the BWW wheels that hasn't been said many times? They are well built, high tension, tensions equal (ping = ping), spoke heads seated and threads lubed. This is the fifth set of their wheels that has passed through my hands and they're all well built and standing up fine to their intended use.

    Now I have the task of e-mailing her to tell her that her wheels are in. I wonder if I could sneak a ride on them? Naww, knowing my luck I'd dent a rim. I'll just have to ride vicariously through her. That way I'll get to win a race too.

    Many thanks to Chris & Pat at BWW.
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    Last edited by Mike T.; 05-26-2009 at 03:18 PM.
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  2. #2
    ol' dusty lungs
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    Nice wheels! She is going to love those. That is the same set that I wanted to build but eventually decided that the scandium rims might not hold up over the long term for everyday riding.

  3. #3
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    Dee-Ang!

    Nice. Have you picked the tires yet?
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  4. #4
    Former Bike Wrench
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    Interesting that the rear wheel is laced the "King" way and not the "Shimano" way. I don't think it makes much difference, but I wonder if that is by chance or they specifically lace that way for a reason (other than its easier to lace up symmetrically IME).

  5. #5
    A wheelist
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    Nice. Have you picked the tires yet?
    I'd forgotten she had some Continental Twisters at 425g each. So they will be going on.
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  6. #6
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    They're done the way I like to do 'em - heads-out pullers that leave the drive side puller spoke on the outside of the final cross - which of course pulls the final cross away from the derailer cage. Plus the non-pullers are heads-in which places the elbow on the outside of the flange and IF** the chain derails over the top of the cassette the less stressed non-pullers would take the trauma. I like that BWW spokes them that way.

    **I mechanic the bike so the chances of the chain going over the top of the cassette are like NIL!
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  7. #7
    Nouveau Retrogrouch SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T.
    They're done the way I like to do 'em - heads-out pullers that leave the drive side puller spoke on the outside of the final cross - which of course pulls the final cross away from the derailer cage. Plus the non-pullers are heads-in which places the elbow on the outside of the flange and IF** the chain derails over the top of the cassette the less stressed non-pullers would take the trauma. I like that BWW spokes them that way.

    **I mechanic the bike so the chances of the chain going over the top of the cassette are like NIL!
    I use to insist on lacing my driveside spokes the other way. Now I do not care as long as the valve hole in the right place.
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  8. #8
    Former Bike Wrench
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    They're laced the way I have always built wheels but I've seen others built the Shimano way...I was just currious if BWW laces them that way for a reason besides it being easier.

    I did build up one set the Shimano way and it was a PIA...probably because I wasn't used to it

  9. #9
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    That's an awesome Electric Blue!!! Should make a very nice blur when whizzing by

  10. #10
    A wheelist
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    Quote Originally Posted by two-one
    That's an awesome Electric Blue!!! Should make a very nice blur when whizzing by
    They have a new color - turquoise - that's really close to availability. We were offered those if we wanted a short wait. I see they're offering turquoise nipples already.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T.
    A new Bicycle Wheel Warehouse wheelset arrived this morning and I'm quite upset. (sob/sniff) Why? you ask. These wheels are not for me; they're for The Woman I Mechanic For. I'll never (bawl) get to (sob) ride them.
    [/url]
    I know your pain, holding them and knowing they are not for you is a lot like seeing a big box full of puppies and being allergic to dander, just not fair.
    Last edited by Patsaysjack; 05-27-2009 at 11:11 AM.

  12. #12
    A wheelist
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patsaysjack
    I know your pain, holding them and knowing they are not for you is a lot like seeing a big box full of puppies and being allergic to dander, just not fairl.
    For me it's like seeing a 1/2 gallon of double chocolate ice cream and knowing there is no-way I wanna put back any of the 25lbs I've just lost.

    BTW Pat - have the turquoise hubs arrived yet?
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  13. #13
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    Those are VERY sweet Mike! Make sure to get some pics with them mounted on her bike!
    adam • michigan • karate monkey

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T.
    For me it's like seeing a 1/2 gallon of double chocolate ice cream and knowing there is no-way I wanna put back any of the 25lbs I've just lost.
    Don't worry 1/2 gallon of ice cream will never make 25lbs. Go ahead and dig in

    Good job on loosing 25lbs, though.

    apaju

  15. #15
    A wheelist
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    Quote Originally Posted by apaju
    Don't worry 1/2 gallon of ice cream will never make 25lbs. Go ahead and dig in
    Apaju, a tiny bowl of the &^%$# stuff will put 25lbs on. That's how it works.

    Actually my post was carefully worded - "put back any.......". I can't let it get even a toe-hold.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T.
    Actually my post was carefully worded - "put back any.......". I can't let it get even a toe-hold.
    I have to admit, I missed that eloquence. Good luck with keeping your weight!

    apaju

  17. #17
    himom!
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    Why didn't she just use her existing 240s hubs for the build?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T.
    They have a new color - turquoise - that's really close to availability. We were offered those if we wanted a short wait. I see they're offering turquoise nipples already.
    My girlfriend is going to want a set of these. The rim will be the tough choice.
    i ride bikes

  19. #19
    A wheelist
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmcgoy
    Why didn't she just use her existing 240s hubs for the build?
    I think it's a very good idea that she has a spare set of wheels and possibly use the heavy ones for everyday training.
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  20. #20
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    that blue is awesome, wish i had a somewhat blue bike
    Honk your horn if im paying for your mortgage!

  21. #21
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    that blue is awesome, wish i had a somewhat blue bike.

    how long was the wait. i ordered a set from this last friday the 22nd. should i expect them this week even with memorial day?
    Honk your horn if im paying for your mortgage!

  22. #22
    A wheelist
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    Quote Originally Posted by russelr
    how long was the wait. i ordered a set from this last friday the 22nd. should i expect them this week even with memorial day?
    These were on order for quite a while. We were waiting for the turquoise to arrive at BWW. Then they found the blue had been shipped from their supplier and not the turquoise. So, rather than wait, Andrea decided to go with the blue. Then shipping up to Canada takes longer. Plus BWW is busier than a one-armed wallpaperer right now. And so it goes. They took a while but it wasn't a problem at this end.
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  23. #23
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    I'm interested in having a new wheelset built, but they don't carry any really lightweight hubs that are 6 bolt disc specific and they don't accept customer supplied parts. Getting the very expensive DT 190 CL hubs to use them with 30g adapters would make no sense. Tune hubs are hard to get in the US. They could offer American Classic 130 and 225 disc hubs though.

  24. #24
    A wheelist
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfer1
    I'm interested in having a new wheelset built, but they don't carry any really lightweight hubs that are 6 bolt disc specific
    What about DT-Swiss 240? I had a weight for their BWW Pure hubs and it wasn't a great deal more than the 240 but I now forget what it was. For the difference in cost between the Pure and the 240 it didn't seem worth it for a few grams. Their web page weights are very accurate so maybe it can be figured from their site.
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  25. #25
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    The DT 240 hubs are 72g heavier and considerably more expensive than the AC hubs.

    Plus I like the AC rear hub better, because the freehub body is equipped with 3 steel faced splines so the cassette will not damage the aluminum (the cassette eating into the aluminium freehub body is a common problem with other hubs).



    American Classic
    Disc 130 Front Hub: 130g, $140
    Disc 225 Rear Hub: 225g, $240
    Total: 355g, $380

    DT 240 6-bolt Disc
    Front Hub: 154g, $205
    Rear Hub: 273g, $305
    Total: 427g, $510

    DT 190 Centerlock
    Front Hub: 105g + 30g (adapter), $385
    Rear Hub: 210g + 30g (adapter), $575
    Total: 375g, $960

    BWW Pure XCR
    Front Hub: ???, $140-150
    Rear Hub: ???, $185-195
    Total: 462g (*), $325-345

    (*) According to the BWW website, the Pure XCR hubs are 35g heavier than the DT 240's.
    Last edited by sfer1; 05-27-2009 at 04:57 PM.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T.
    Plus BWW is busier than a one-armed wallpaperer right now.
    I didnt realize there would be such demand for a one-armed wallpaperer...........

  27. #27
    A wheelist
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    Quote Originally Posted by 006_007
    I didnt realize there would be such demand for a one-armed wallpaperer...........
    Even with very little work they're VERY busy people.
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  28. #28
    No. Just No.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfer1
    The DT 240 hubs are 72g heavier and considerably more expensive than the AC hubs.

    Plus I like the AC rear hub better, because the freehub body is equipped with 3 steel faced splines so the cassette will not damage the aluminum (the cassette eating into the aluminium freehub body is a common problem with other hubs).
    Given that AC hubs are lighter than all but a couple of super-boutique options and also cheaper than many mid to high end hubs, maybe there's a reason why many people still choose to go other directions? I suppose it all depends on your riding conditions and requirements for reliability though.

    Gouges in freehub splines don't bother me, but an engagement mech that craps out on me during a race or when I'm way the heck out there is a major detractor IMHO.

  29. #29
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    From what I read, AC hubs are reliable. One of the reasons many people choose to go other directions may be that they aren't available in different colors. Other hubs do look cooler.

    Anyway, it's shame BWW don't carry them. A wheelset built with AC hubs, XCR Pro Scandium rims, Sapim CX-Ray spokes and alloy nipples would weigh 1290g. It's a great weight for a reliable and reasonably priced wheelset.

  30. #30
    himom!
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfer1
    From what I read, AC hubs are reliable. One of the reasons many people choose to go other directions may be that they aren't available in different colors. Other hubs do look cooler.
    I owned a set (2006). Terrible seals. If you ride in wet conditions, they aren't a viable option. The 240s hubs are heavier probably because they actually keep water away from the bearings.

  31. #31
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    I understand old AC hubs weren't so good, but the newer ones are much better. At least that's what I've been told.

    The 2009 freehub body is equipped with 3 steel faced splines so the cassette will not damage the aluminum. The 2008 model wasn't. This shows they improve their hubs.

  32. #32
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    Hi All,

    I'm trying to find out what the warranty is on these hubs. It's a new entity but it'd be nice to know we're covered for a year or two from manufacturer's defects (that's pretty common for any purchase, I think). I got a response from BWW but I only got a generic response about how most purchases from BWW are final (it's exactly what they have in their "returns" page on the website). I did read in a thread a couple months ago someone mentioned a 2 year warranty on these hubs. I just can't find any written confirmation on the website or anywhere.

    If any of you has this info, let me know! I do have another email out to BWW to confirm... (by the way, no phone number for these guys?)


    Regards,
    Yosuke

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T.
    They're done the way I like to do 'em - heads-out pullers that leave the drive side puller spoke on the outside of the final cross - which of course pulls the final cross away from the derailer cage. Plus the non-pullers are heads-in which places the elbow on the outside of the flange and IF** the chain derails over the top of the cassette the less stressed non-pullers would take the trauma. I like that BWW spokes them that way.

    **I mechanic the bike so the chances of the chain going over the top of the cassette are like NIL!
    I agree 100%.
    I'm at a loss for any specific reason to do it the other way.
    Shiggy- since you used to insist on it, what was your reasoning?

    Nice wheels! If only she'd used Revos, she could have the same performance and weight for ~$610...
    Not trying to start that discussion again, just sayin'...

  34. #34
    A wheelist
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather
    Nice wheels! If only she'd used Revos, she could have the same performance and weight for ~$610...
    Not trying to start that discussion again, just sayin'...
    At almost double her weight (me - 190>>200>>175lbs since I've been using 'Rays) I've used 'Rays on my own wheels for the past 9 years and have had no issues. I hate to tempt fate. I know the gauge similarity (the original gauge of the CX-Ray prior to forging) and the weight similarity to the Revs. But it's just me - those ultra-skinny Revs just scare the crap outta me. For me, CX-Rays are a proven performer.
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T.
    At almost double her weight (me - 190>>200>>175lbs since I've been using 'Rays) I've used 'Rays on my own wheels for the past 9 years and have had no issues. I hate to tempt fate. I know the gauge similarity (the original gauge of the CX-Ray prior to forging) and the weight similarity to the Revs. But it's just me - those ultra-skinny Revs just scare the crap outta me. For me, CX-Rays are a proven performer.
    No doubt Rays are good spokes... I wouldn't say otherwise. I'm not a fate tempter myself... and in my case it's the Revos that are the proven performer under very strenuous testing. Different strokes... though I do tend to rebut peeps who say Revos are too 'flexy' or weak... as you probably already know.

  36. #36
    A wheelist
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather
    .......in my case it's the Revos that are the proven performer under very strenuous testing. Different strokes... though I do tend to rebut peeps who say Revos are too 'flexy' or weak... as you probably already know.
    Yeah I've seen you rebut them and I try to keep my mouth shut as I've never used Revs so I have no first-hand knowledge. And we all know what opinions are like don't we?
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T.
    And we all know what opinions are like don't we?
    Yes we do. That's why I try to stick to things that are objective (material properties, physics, geometry, etc.) in both developing my own understanding and discussing wheels with others. I fail sometimes.
    I have said that bladed spokes are a questionable recommendation for mtb applications, and I'll rescind that right now. It's too much of a blanket statement and doesn't consider the most important piece of the puzzle, which is the wheelbuilder's experience. I've personally seen solid, durable wheelsets built with Rays, and that's the ultimate test (value aside). I said that in the context of being heatedly challenged on my position on Revos and while being told that Rays build stiffer wheels than Revos, which I don't agree with.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather
    I have said that bladed spokes are a questionable recommendation for mtb applications, and I'll rescind that right now. It's too much of a blanket statement and doesn't consider the most important piece of the puzzle, which is the wheelbuilder's experience. I've personally seen solid, durable wheelsets built with Rays, and that's the ultimate test (value aside). I said that in the context of being heatedly challenged on my position on Revos and while being told that Rays build stiffer wheels than Revos, which I don't agree with.
    I'm not crazy enough to say that Rays build a stiffer wheel that Revs as I know Rays are banged from Sapim Lazer spokes (same gauge as Revs of course) and I would have no way of measuring such a claim. Of course any aero advantage for MTB applications amount to very close to zero (that one I'll claim without a measurement). What I do know is this - multi DH world champion Vouilloz rode CX-Rays to his victories so they must be good enough for DH'ing or he wouldn't be stupid enough to risk his livelihood on them if they weren't. Of course sponsorship and an endless supply of necessary parts might have something to do with that.

    With me it boils down to this - I'm comfortable with Rays for at least anyone up to 200lbs (I proved they worked for years) and I'm not comfortable with Revs (as I've never used them). But no measurements exist for any of that.
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T.
    I'm not crazy enough to say that Rays build a stiffer wheel that Revs as I know Rays are banged from Sapim Lazer spokes (same gauge as Revs of course) and I would have no way of measuring such a claim. Of course any aero advantage for MTB applications amount to very close to zero (that one I'll claim without a measurement). What I do know is this - multi DH world champion Vouilloz rode CX-Rays to his victories so they must be good enough for DH'ing or he wouldn't be stupid enough to risk his livelihood on them if they weren't. Of course sponsorship and an endless supply of necessary parts might have something to do with that.

    With me it boils down to this - I'm comfortable with Rays for at least anyone up to 200lbs (I proved they worked for years) and I'm not comfortable with Revs (as I've never used them). But no measurements exist for any of that.
    That's what your customers (and mine) pay for, your experience and expertise in recommending equipment to suit their needs. As long as the wheels perform and they're happy, that's what matters.

  40. #40
    A wheelist
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather
    That's what your customers (and mine) pay for, your experience and expertise in recommending equipment to suit their needs. As long as the wheels perform and they're happy, that's what matters.
    Customers? I've assembled many wheels for others but have yet to charge a dime for them. I rather just be an opinionated sum***** and tell those willing to listen what I think they should buy Then if the wheels ^%$# up I can pass the buck.
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  41. #41
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    Nice looking wheels!

    How come you didn't go with Notube's ZTR Race 7000? 1210g and under... If she is a super light rider the ZTR race wheels should last a long time.

  42. #42
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    Bike Pixx

    As promised, even thought they've been a long time coming, here are the pics of the bike with the wheels. I didn't realize it until I was editing these pics, the BWW guys matched the Fox fork blue perfectly. Those guys think of everything!
    I'll bet this is the only mtb you've ever seen with Campagnolo track pedals. Actually they're my "test ride" pedals so I don't have to worry about incompatible pedals/cleats when I work on others' bikes. I think I bashed my chin on my knees a couple of times. I hope no-one saw me riding this tiny bike.
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  43. #43
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    An update.

    Ive got 2 years of hard xc riding on my BWW / Alex Scandium Wheelset.
    These babies are solid, they have survived some serious rocky terrain and root drops.

    No regrets here!
    Titus X Carbon
    Schwinn Prologue
    Rocky Mountain Element
    Orbea Lobular CX

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