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  1. #1
    beater
    Reputation: evasive's Avatar
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    My Hope Pro 2 EVO is killing me

    Actually, that's the other way around. I'm killing my Pro 2 EVO. Repeatedly. What gives?

    It's a 150x12, ridden on a Banshee Prime. The wheels were new last March. By last July I had cracked the freehub body and half the bearings were shot. Hope warrantied the body with a stainless one. Bearings and freehub body were replaced. Good to go - with the stainless upgrade, no worries.

    Until April, when half my bearings explode: loose balls and shredded cartridges. All the bearings were replaced.

    A couple weeks ago, the bearings blew up again, every one of them.

    This is getting really, really old. The guys at my shop are flummoxed. They ride with me and service my bikes, so they're familiar with the use and care that my bikes see. I'm a big guy: 6'3" and 230 in current configuration, but I don't think I'm abusive. I'd say my use would be rated "light all-mountain" - I generally don't hit drops bigger than maybe 4 feet. The only thing that occurs to me is that I do a lot of granny-gear climbing.

    At this point I'm thinking that the few $100 I saved by choosing Hope hubs for my wheelbuild wasn't worth it. I've never had a problem with DT Swiss hubs, and I'm thinking about shopping around for a 440 or a 350 for a wheel rebuild this winter. I don't have any personal experience with Hadley, King or I9, but the vain part of me admits that I would like to keep a blue hub in the rear, and obviously that's not an option with DT Swiss.

    Does anyone have any thoughts about my experience with Hope, or how the durability/reliability of the blue bling hubs is likely to compare to the trusty DT Swiss hubs? FWIW, I really don't care about POE.

    Thanks-
    "Back off, man. I'm a scientist." - Dr. Peter Venkman

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  2. #2
    undercover brother
    Reputation: tangaroo's Avatar
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    My hope hubs have been amazing. No issues whatsoever under aggressive riding in mud and dusty conditions. I pull them apart, clean, and grease everything once a month though.

  3. #3
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    Don't hear many stories like yours with Hope hubs. That totally sucks. I'm 230 like you and have been running Pro 2 Evo's for almost two years now without any problems at all. I also utilize the small ring a lot.

  4. #4
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    No idea why your hub is doing that, pretty much never hear stories like that.

    At a vague guess maybe the axle or hub shell is somehow bent/out of tolerance/faulty? I've had couple of Pro 2s come in with dead bearings where they've been repeatedly submerged in water (river crossing) then left without maintenance, but that's something people do once and never repeat. Your case is weird.

    It might be worth asking Hope directly and seeing if they have any idea (or if you can wangle a new hub out of it).

    re: King hubs, they are the business. I have a 2007 rear and a 2011 front/rear, in that time I've only changed the grease and one axle pre-load collar (which I snapped with some ham fisted spannering). The 2007 must have several thousand miles on it by now.

  5. #5
    beater
    Reputation: evasive's Avatar
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    Thanks. I realize that my experience is an outlier, but obviously it doesn't make me any happier. The shop owner wondered about the hub shell, too. He's following up with Hope. At the moment, everything except for the hub shell and ratchet teeth.
    "Back off, man. I'm a scientist." - Dr. Peter Venkman

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  6. #6
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    There was a big thread on this over in the DH forum a couple years ago. The problem was with using a tapered rear Maxle. The Hope doesn't use a one piece internal axle so you end up pressuring the shell and getting the failure's you describe over ad over again. SO if your rear 12mm thru-axle is tapered, then there is your problem. If not, there still may not be enough support for it given your weight and riding style. My personal opinion is that I'll never own a Hope rear hub but wouldn't hesitate to use their front hubs.

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  7. #7
    beater
    Reputation: evasive's Avatar
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    Hmm. Interesting. I'll have to look for that thread. The Hope axle isn't one-piece? I thought it is, but I didn't look closely at the ridges, etc. on it. In my case, I'm not using a Maxle. I did for a while, but the pre-production Primes had 150mm dropouts that are threaded on the non-drive side. That's why you do trial runs, I guess. So I dumped the Maxle for Banshee's titanium thru-axle, which is straight.

    Edit: Found the thread. OK; I see what you're saying. I don't think that accounts for my problem. All my failures have happened since I replaced the Maxle (which was the regular, not Lite), and I haven't broken an axle. In the end, I think we're on the same page as far as use: front only.
    "Back off, man. I'm a scientist." - Dr. Peter Venkman

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  8. #8
    transmitter~receiver
    Reputation: meltingfeather's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  9. #9
    beater
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    Sorry; I'm missing what you're pointing out. I do have that PDF - I keep them for every component on my bikes.
    "Back off, man. I'm a scientist." - Dr. Peter Venkman

    Riding in Helena? Everything you need to know, right here.

  10. #10
    mtbpete
    Reputation: changingleaf's Avatar
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    Is it the small bearing in the freehub that has failed? That is the only one I've ever seen fail. My guess is that you are tightening the axle excessively and/or the spacer between the freehub bearings is too short. Something is putting excess side load on the bearings. All of the other bearings in the hub are as big as I've seen anywhere and they're not low quality.

  11. #11
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    On the most recent occasion, all the bearings failed. But I had to ride out, and I'm not sure what was the original failure and what was cascading. I'd have to ask my friend to remind me which 3 bearings failed in April, as I can't remember now.
    "Back off, man. I'm a scientist." - Dr. Peter Venkman

    Riding in Helena? Everything you need to know, right here.

  12. #12
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    My Hope Pro 2 EVO is killing me

    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    Sorry; I'm missing what you're pointing out. I do have that PDF - I keep them for every component on my bikes.
    Nothing in particular, just adding the exploded view to the discussion. You are correct that the axle is not "one piece" in that the spacers actually contact the dropouts, so the possibility for side loading is there.
    Just thinking through this one... have never heard of such repeated and drastic failures of Hopes before, even the notorious 142s.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  13. #13
    beater
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    My Hope Pro 2 EVO is killing me

    So how would I know if I'm over tightening my axle?
    "Back off, man. I'm a scientist." - Dr. Peter Venkman

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  14. #14
    MTB B'dos
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    OK, I'll chime in on this first...in my experience with the SS/Trials version of the earlier version the normal Pro2, the inner crush/spacer washer can be crushed if you over tighten and you'll know if you can't pedal backwards, simple as that.
    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    So how would I know if I'm over tightening my axle?
    As to longevity, I'm with the rest on mine Pro2s being the **** and lasting forever it would seem, only bearings I've blown were the ones in the freehub and that was the normal ball bearings before Hope changed to one needle bearing instead of those 2 small ball bearings. I've had my set for now over 4 years and yes I did replace the bearings in the entire rear hub (front is due as well), but that's because of all the mileage they have on. I've no hesitation buying them again, actually bought a new front hub late last year and planning on a new rear soon too, like you for the colour (switch to blue for my Primes accent colour).

    My guess is that maybe it has something to do with the fact that you're running the 150mm version as opposed to most who use the 135/142 version. If I was looking for a 150mm hub it would be the Hope since they don't extend the flanges out to take advantage of the extra width to improve the spoke bracing, I'd be looking at another brand who does do this, one of the reasons I use the SS/Trials version, flanges are 10mm wider than the standard 135mm version so builds a dishless wheel.
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  15. #15
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    My Hope Pro 2 EVO is killing me

    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    If I was looking for a 150mm hub it would be the Hope since they don't extend the flanges out to take advantage of the extra width to improve the spoke bracing.
    They do take advantage of it on the DS.
    It's a design trade-off, since the more bracing angle you take advantage of on the NDS (DS limited by cassette), the lower your tension on that side.
    Hope 150s are dishless.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  16. #16
    West Chester, PA
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    Get a King.

    The armchair engineer in me thinks their angular contact bearings won't suffer those failures. Anybody who really knows what they're talking about care to back me up on that?

    Plus I'm infatuated with their drive system and it seems like every big guy I've ridden with swears by them.

  17. #17
    Oh, the huge-meh-nity
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    I'm a similar height/weight, and riding style, although I probably don't drop or rail rock gardens as hard as you since I'm often on a rigid. I climb a lot in the granny gear, and they have performed flawlessly--only issues I've had besides a couple bearings with no grease have been maintenance issues, and IMHO very easy to fix.
    Although... the situation you got out of--needing two chainwhips for the crappy Al freehub body--is lame.

    All that said, I'd have to see a much cheaper King/DT hub, or a much more expensive Hope to change brands.

    I hope they get it sorted out for you.

  18. #18
    beater
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    Well, I found a solution:

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    My shop set me up with donor guts to get me rolling again, and was going to handle contacting Hope for me. I suspect that slipped down the priorities a bit, because I never heard anything from them. I needed a new axle and freehub body, since they got a bit worked over when I had to finish the ride with failing bearings. The stainless freehub body was just slightly out of round, enough that the new bearings wouldn't slip in.

    This weekend, I broke the (aluminum) donor freehub body after 11 rides and got to do my first chainless downhill. Woo hoo! Maybe there's something up with the hub shell, but whatever the issue, I'm done messing around with Hope. I realize that my experiences are unusual (and I've tried to allay my buddy's growing concern about his Hope Hoops), but no more Hope rear hubs for me.

    I saved my Stan's FR wheels when I sold off my Yelli Screamy this spring, intending to replace the 135mm hub with a 150mm and have a 2nd wheelset. I've been stalling on doing that, but this week I'll have the rear laced to a DT Swiss 340 that I found on CRC closeout. I'll mothball my 36h MTX-33 wheels until winter, when hopefully I can find a deal on a King or DT Swiss. Hadley hubs are pretty attractive in terms of reputation and price, but I think I've convinced myself that I want the more continuous interface of the ring drive or star ratchet.

    Not really satisfactory, but moving forward.
    "Back off, man. I'm a scientist." - Dr. Peter Venkman

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  19. #19
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    Reading this worries me. My wheelset with Pro 2 Evos is less than a year old. I just had some upgrades done to my bike and the tech told me the rear bearings on on their way out. I haven't had much chance to ride over the last year, so I maybe put 100 miles on the bike. I chose the hopes because they are supposed to be durable. I hope this isn't a regular issue or I will have to get another hub for the rear.

  20. #20
    West Chester, PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkKnight369 View Post
    Reading this worries me. My wheelset with Pro 2 Evos is less than a year old. I just had some upgrades done to my bike and the tech told me the rear bearings on on their way out. I haven't had much chance to ride over the last year, so I maybe put 100 miles on the bike. I chose the hopes because they are supposed to be durable. I hope this isn't a regular issue or I will have to get another hub for the rear.
    1 - Exactly what does the tech mean by "on their way out" ? Sounds like he's looking for more work to charge you for.

    2 - If the bearings are a little gritty, pulling the dust seals, cleaning them out and re-greasing them can do wonders.

    3 - If you ride a ton of miles then replacing bearings every few years is not unreasonable. Especially if you ride in wet, muddy conditions or hose down your bike all the time.

  21. #21
    Oh, the huge-meh-nity
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    Wouldn't be surprised if it's not even the bearings--a dry non-drive side seal makes the axle pretty tough to turn. I thought the same thing a couple months after I got my first hubset... until I started reading the instructions.

  22. #22
    West Chester, PA
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    That too. That's a common issue with kings that aren't lubed often enough.

  23. #23
    I Tried Them ALL... Moderator
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    Go King, i9 or Hadley...way more burlier, than the light-ish Hopes. You only live once....get the BEST.
    "The mind will quit....well before the body does"

  24. #24
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    Tech said the bearings sounded crunchy. This tech recommended hope to me before independently of my own research and decisions. I know he has serviced them and built other wheels with them before.

    Its possible they could use a lubing...but I seriously have less than 100 miles on them.

  25. #25
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    I find that surprising. One of the frequently cited benefits of Hope hubs are the seals, since their core market rides in UK wet/mud. I also think Zowie's suggestion is worth looking into, btw.
    "Back off, man. I'm a scientist." - Dr. Peter Venkman

    Riding in Helena? Everything you need to know, right here.

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