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  1. #1
    a.k.a. MTBMaven
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    Mavic CrossMAX SL vs. Chris King ISO Mavic X3.1

    I am considering purchasing a new wheel set for my Enduro S-Works. If I had to categorize my riding style I would say aggressive trail riding. I don't do drop larger than 3' and that is rare. I like rocky, narrow, technical trails. I weight 175-180. I am looking to shave some weight but don't want something that is going to needed to be trued frequently or require excessive regular maintenance.

    I am considering either a Chris King ISO hub matched with Mavic x3.1 Disk rims, or Mavic CrossMAX SL. Both to be run tubeless.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnfiend
    ...either a Chris King ISO hub matched with Mavic x3.1 Disk rims, or Mavic CrossMAX SL...
    Go with King's. The ability to replace spokes and rims at a fraction of the cost, and the fact that I've yet to see any true benefit from the prebuilts has kept me loyal to conventional hand-built wheelsets. And what more can be said about Kings? They are the benchmark of hubs. If taken care of those things will out last most any frame. Just make sure that you buy from a very repuitable wheel builder such as Dave Thomas of http://www.speeddream.com/.

  3. #3
    Do It Yourself
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    I really don't see any advantage to Crossmax...

    I really don't understand why they cost so much. When you have the choice between some cookie cutter one size fits all whiz bang cool looking wheels versus hand built by a wheel building guru just for you with all the best components selected based on your needs, it really doesn't make much sense. The Kings are much better hubs with better seals, faster engagement, longer warranty and your choice of components for the same or less money.

  4. #4
    Big M, Little organ.
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    King

    I agree with the others, I can't see the advantage of the CrossMax...maybe Im missing something though. Either way, I don't think anyone can argue that King hubs are second to none.

  5. #5
    a.k.a. MTBMaven
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    Let me change the situation a bit

    Thanks for the good advice. I would like to change the situation a bit to see if people opinions change.

    I recently purchased a used set of Mavic CrossMAX SL rims for $400.00. When installing my rotors on the front wheel I broke a flange off the hub because the bolts were too long. I couldn't see this while installing and now am paying the consequences. Mavic is replacing the front hub and rebuilding the wheel for $100.00. That puts me at $500.00. For that price I could have purchased a nice King wheelset.

    Do you think I should sell the Mavic set for ~$500.00 and purchase a King wheelset?

    I have always wanted a King wheelset but when I saw the CrossMax for $400 I thought I could save a little money on a used $700 wheelset.

    Thanks for the advice. If anyone wants to purchase my Mavic wheelset please let me know.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnfiend
    Do you think I should sell the Mavic set for ~$500.00 and purchase a King wheelset?
    You'll be $600+ for a custom hand built Chris King wheelset. So if you have the coin and don't mind parting with it I'd do it in a heartbeat. Again, just make sure it is from a reputable wheel builder not the high school part timer at the LBS, unless hesum, well reputable.

  7. #7
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    $600....unless you build them yourself....

  8. #8
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    $600.....where? There are many shops that will do it for less

    Heck I had a King ISO wheelset built with Mavic 3.1 rims and Sapim CX-Ray spokes ($2.50 per spoke) built for much less than that.
    I'm guessing here but I bet you could get his wheelset built for about $500.

    KMan


    Quote Originally Posted by CrashTheDOG
    You'll be $600+ for a custom hand built Chris King wheelset. So if you have the coin and don't mind parting with it I'd do it in a heartbeat. Again, just make sure it is from a reputable wheel builder not the high school part timer at the LBS, unless hesum, well reputable.

  9. #9
    a.k.a. MTBMaven
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    Who built the rim?

    KMan,

    Do you remember who built the rim?

    MtnFiend

  10. #10
    get up n jump
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    oddsandendos

    I would give Mike a call at www.oddsandendos.com. I just purchased my wheelset from him. King ISO with DT Swiss rims. $500 with shipping and 2 qr skewers and 1 bolt on. He is awesome and loves to talk wheels. I would sell the crossmax and get the Kings. But that is just me. I know that I have zero riding time on the Kings, but from all the comments about the King hubs I could not resist. Good luck.

    Quote Originally Posted by mtnfiend
    Thanks for the good advice. I would like to change the situation a bit to see if people opinions change.

    I recently purchased a used set of Mavic CrossMAX SL rims for $400.00. When installing my rotors on the front wheel I broke a flange off the hub because the bolts were too long. I couldn't see this while installing and now am paying the consequences. Mavic is replacing the front hub and rebuilding the wheel for $100.00. That puts me at $500.00. For that price I could have purchased a nice King wheelset.

    Do you think I should sell the Mavic set for ~$500.00 and purchase a King wheelset?

    I have always wanted a King wheelset but when I saw the CrossMax for $400 I thought I could save a little money on a used $700 wheelset.

    Thanks for the advice. If anyone wants to purchase my Mavic wheelset please let me know.
    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
    -Albert Einstein

  11. #11
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    Larry Mettler built the set

    Did an excellent with the build.
    Contact Larry http://www.mtnhighcyclery.com/ or Mike Garcia from http://www.oddsandendos.com

    Both are excellent builders with excellent pricing.

    KMan


    Quote Originally Posted by mtnfiend
    KMan,

    Do you remember who built the rim?

    MtnFiend

  12. #12
    trail "cleaner"
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    Mavic vs. king and 819's

    Agree with everyone above. I have both and prefer the King/819's over the Mavic wheelset. The proprietary parts of the Mavic in addition to the lame freewheel mechanism (two pawls)! makes my choice even easier.
    No dabs allowed!

  13. #13
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    I'll chime in for the Crossmax SL disc...

    I went the xmax (got them for 650 from my lbs) because other than the xtr 965 hoops, there is really no other UST wheelset that comes close to the xmax. Thought the ck hubs certainly are worth every penny, I could not find a rim that was ust that came close the mavic strength and weight. I did not want to be farting around with extra strips (pain the a##, extra weight, thinner rim walls). I talked to a lot of people including some wheel builders mentioned above (which btw are great people to talk to!), who actually think the xmax is a great wheelset, just a bit too costly at its original price! If you doubt this is true just go review the xmax ratings on this site. Also, look at what the pros are ridding! Sure they are expensive, but they come with the best rim out there, they roll real fast, they are a light weight wheel (significantly lighter than cks with 819s), and they look sooo sharp! Most people here probably don't like the mavics cause they just hate the French! (just kidding).


    [size=2]I also got the mp3 warranty with my wheels: mavic will warranty the wheel for anything that happens to them for the next two years! I think the only thing the warranty does not cover is if you give them away, or intentionally damage them. I think the only real concerns with xmax is too make sure your lbs stocks the parts so that they don't have to send for them, which would leave you waiting...[/size]
    Last edited by bellullabob; 03-11-2004 at 08:59 PM.

  14. #14
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    yeah! crossmax kick ass! expensive and flexy but who cares? all the pros are riding and they looks soo cool....

    sorry dude, i just cant let it pass...
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  15. #15
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    I still don't get it?

    If your main concern was with using the Mavic ust rim, why didn't you just get a cusom build using Mavic UST rims (3.1, not sure of the current #), and use a better quality hub than the Mavic.......King, XTR, etc. Much better wheelset, less expensive, etc, ect....that is the whole point of this thread.

    KMan


    Quote Originally Posted by bellullabob
    I went the xmax (got them for 650 from my lbs) because other than the xtr 965 hoops, there is really no other UST wheelset that comes close to the xmax. Thought the ck hubs certainly are worth every penny, I could not find a rim that was ust that came close the mavic strength and weight. I did not want to be farting around with extra strips (pain the a##, extra weight, thinner rim walls). I talked to a lot of people including some wheel builders mentioned above (which btw are great people to talk to!), who actually think the xmax is a great wheelset, just a bit too costly at its original price! If you doubt this is true just go review the xmax ratings on this site. Also, look at what the pros are ridding! Sure they are expensive, but they come with the best rim out there, they roll real fast, they are a light weight wheel (significantly lighter than cks with 819s), and they look sooo sharp! Most people here probably don't like the mavics cause they just hate the French! (just kidding).


    [size=2]I also got the mp3 warranty with my wheels: mavic will warranty the wheel for anything that happens to them for the next two years! I think the only thing the warranty does not cover is if you give them away, or intentionally damage them. I think the only real concerns with xmax is too make sure your lbs stocks the parts so that they don't have to send for them, which would leave you waiting...[/size]
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  16. #16
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    xmax not soo bad...

    Quote Originally Posted by KMan
    If your main concern was with using the Mavic ust rim, why didn't you just get a cusom build using Mavic UST rims (3.1, not sure of the current #), and use a better quality hub than the Mavic.......King, XTR, etc. Much better wheelset, less expensive, etc, ect....that is the whole point of this thread.

    KMan
    My original plan was to build kings on 3.1's (819 I think they are now), but those rims weight a ton; real weight is over 500 grams (then you have the whole rotational weight thing!). Since I really wanted UST, and the price was right, I went with the xmax. As for the xmax being flexy, I've heard just the opposite. One of the complaints with the xmax sl spokes is that they are too stiff, and don't have enough give, requiring some lower air pressure in the tires to counter act it...

    I am certainly not arguing mavic has a better hub than ck (and I love the company). I am just saying ust wise (and I would have never paid 8 bills for them) the xmax sl disc is a pretty good wheelset. Btw, I was not saying in the above statement to buy these wheels cause the pros ride them, but rather, that since the pros do ride them, and they have a lot riding on their ride (!), the fact they are riding on xmax sl shows it is not a bad wheelset!

    All and all, my point being intended to mtnfiend: I would not loose money over trying to replace your xmax sl - they ain't that bad!

  17. #17
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    Still lost....help me out here.....

    Quote:
    "My original plan was to build kings on 3.1's (819 I think they are now), but those rims weight a ton; real weight is over 500 grams (then you have the whole rotational weight thing!). Since I really wanted UST, and the price was right, I went with the xmax."

    If the Xmax are ust, they are probably using the EXACT same rim as the 3.1/819's ust that you claim weigh a ton. Same rim, better spokes, better hub, less expensive, I still don't see any benefit to the Xmax wheelset? Am I missing something here? Don't get me wrong I'm not saying they are a bad wheelset, heck I have Mavic Ksy SL's on my road bike. I "had" all the intention of selling that wheelset and putting on a custom wheelset because of all the reasons I have been mentioning in my post. New baby in the family is forcing me to change some of my priorities around and I just decided to keep the wheelset after all.

    KMan

  18. #18
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    XMAX SL rims are not the same as the 819s or any other UST rim that Mavic sells seperately. MAN!

    First of all they are 18/20/24 holed rims.

    But, more importantly if they sold those rims in sizes that a person could accompany to a King hub etc, then the sells of XMAXs would drop considerably.

    They wouldn't do that from a business stand point.

    For us it would be nice, but not for them.

  19. #19
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    Here's a pic.

    www
    Quote Originally Posted by KMan
    Quote:
    If the Xmax are ust, they are probably using the EXACT same rim as the 3.1/819's ust that you claim weigh a ton.

    KMan
    This is the best pic I have of the rim itself. Donkeykus is right. Mavic purposefully stays away from making a light weights UST aftermarket rim. The front xmax sl disc is 770 grams, a king with a mavic 819 with good spokes would run you upwards of 830 grams... Etc... for the rear...
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  20. #20
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    Thanks for the clarification on the rim.

    Have you actually weighed the wheelset?
    I know Mavic always under estimates their wheelset weights. I have the 2004 Road Ksy SL's and the weight was probably a good 45-50 grams over their posted weights.
    Mavic "List" the SL (disc) @ 1685 grams, My 3.1ust's w/ King ISO hubs weight an "actual" 1796 grams which is 111 grams difference. Take into account Mavic weight fudge factor and we are looking at probably about a 75 gram difference between the two. Mavic still being lighter. The Mavic set looks reaaly nice and I love the way they have thinned down the rim for added weight savings.
    How I would LOVE to get a set of the ligher Mavic rims in a 24 or 28 spoke count. I am trying to build up a real light ust racing wheelset but waiting for someone to come out with a ust rim around 450grams w/ hardware.

    KMan


    Quote Originally Posted by bellullabob
    www
    This is the best pic I have of the rim itself. Donkeykus is right. Mavic purposefully stays away from making a light weights UST aftermarket rim. The front xmax sl disc is 770 grams, a king with a mavic 819 with good spokes would run you upwards of 830 grams... Etc... for the rear...

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by KMan
    Have you actually weighed the wheelset?
    I know Mavic always under estimates their wheelset weights. I have the 2004 Road Ksy SL's and the weight was probably a good 45-50 grams over their posted weights.
    Mavic "List" the SL (disc) @ 1685 grams, My 3.1ust's w/ King ISO hubs weight an "actual" 1796 grams which is 111 grams difference. Take into account Mavic weight fudge factor and we are looking at probably about a 75 gram difference between the two.
    KMan
    I have not actually weighted them. I know on weightweenies.com, they had them listed as only slightly over claimed weight. I agree with you though, I would love to have ck hubs with the xmax sl disc rim on them....
    Last edited by bellullabob; 03-12-2004 at 01:39 PM. Reason: crapy english!

  22. #22
    a legend in his own mind
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    Flexy?

    Quote Originally Posted by carlos
    yeah! crossmax kick ass! expensive and flexy but who cares? all the pros are riding and they looks soo cool....

    sorry dude, i just cant let it pass...
    Have tried a pair of CrossMax? Cuz day ain't flexy. Expensive, cool looking, yes. Flexy, no.
    "I think this is the worst thing you've ever done Homer."
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  23. #23
    Shut Up, Legs!
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    Oh, they flex...

    Quote Originally Posted by mtnpedaler.com
    Have tried a pair of CrossMax? Cuz day ain't flexy. Expensive, cool looking, yes. Flexy, no.
    I've owned the V-brake ceramic sidewall version for 2 years, ride year-round and true my own. They flex, alot!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldFartYearRound
    I've owned the V-brake ceramic sidewall version for 2 years, ride year-round and true my own. They flex, alot!
    Really? Are those the UST versions or the older non USTs? I'm going on my forth pair and I thought the first X-Max flexed alot. But my newest are the SL discs seem pretty stiff. Now the first pair of the v-brake UST versions (the black ones) came a little loose from the factory. I had to true those a couple of times. Never had much problem with the silver v-braked USTs.

    Also owned 3 or 4 pairs of the King ISO discs with X3.1s and XM819s and 2 or 3 pairs of King Classics with X517s and X3.1s with various spoke combinations. Stiffness was close to any of those wheels.

    I'm going to have to give the X-Max the tree test see how they hold up.
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  25. #25
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    Cool-blue Rhythm

    Quote Originally Posted by mtnpedaler.com
    Have tried a pair of CrossMax? Cuz day ain't flexy. Expensive, cool looking, yes. Flexy, no.
    well, back in 2000 i got my first and last set of crossmax ust wheels. i only got them because i was sponsored and had to use the wheels. not bad wheels at all but after one season of racing use only, in dry conditions, the ceramic sidewalls were gone, the rear rim had lots of cracks near the spoke holes and the crappy hubs needed to be serviced every month, just cant stop the play in the rear hub.

    next year i changed sponsor and had the opportunity to race with hand build wheels, build by me (not a pro builder at all) using king/valiant ceramic/dt revo/comp and alloy niples.... all i can say is that i still race these wheels, almost 3 years later, never had to true them, only serviced the hubs twice a year and the rims looks like new. just cant compare it with "costmax" wheels because my custom wheels seems to be in another class.much more stiffer, as light,stronger and better quality hubs. and cheaper too. im not going to talk about the crappy mavic skewers anyway.....

    if i can build a better wheelset than "costmax" wheels, imagine what a PRO builder can do.
    hey
    ho
    lets go!

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