Results 1 to 48 of 48
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sfer1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    751

    No good Looking to buy custom cut spokes? Avoid eBay seller childhood_dreams like the plague

    childhood_dreams is NOT a reliable source for custom cut spokes. His good feedback is deceiving. His listing says: "I prepare my high quality spokes on Phil Wood and Morizumi spoke machines. The Phil Wood machines will cut to precise lengths, and then will cold forge roll threads."

    I ordered 31x 293mm and 31x 292mm long Sapim CX-Ray from him. Instead of 293mm spokes, he sent me regular stock 294mm ones. If I wanted 294mm spokes, I would have ordered them from r2-bike or some other German store, where they cost $1 less each. I paid extra because I wanted the precise length that I need. The 292mm spokes that he sent me look like he took 294mm spokes, cut them and then extended the thread 2mm. The extended threads look cut (weaker), instead of rolled.

    So ended paying over $200 for 31 spokes that aren't the length that I need and 31 spokes that have been weakened by him. I'm very disappointed with my purchase.

    I contacted him with no response. If this was a honest mistake, he would have replied offering to make things right. He's a crook.

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    4,618
    That sucks.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
    Riding slowly since 1977.

  3. #3
    turtles make me hot
    Reputation: NYrr496's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    9,007
    That's unbelievable. I've been buying spokes from him for quite some time now and every order has been perfect.
    I wonder what gives.

    Also, if you buy something on Ebay and have a problem and the seller doesn't reply, you can open a case and I think they can't sell anything until it's resolved. I had that happen once and the seller contacted me ASAP.
    I like turtles

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Schulze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    705
    Pics of threads?

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: targnik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    4,307
    I ordered some double butted spokes for a new rear wheel build off ebay...

    650b, needed two lengths.

    Got like 4 - 5 variant lengths of spoke.

    Seller was good & refunded me...

    Didn't realise they couldn't sell anything until a case is closed ^^

    50% of my last 6 months of purchases have turned into cases & I ended up getting refunded.

    NB, 80% of those failed transactions were from China. One seller said he resent same item to just get case closed, I'm guessing. Suffice to say neither of the items arrived.

    US purchases have gone done w/o a hitch. Bought 2x X-Fusion forks from US. Ones on my AM HT 29er, other I sold to a mate who has it on his 650b AM HT.

    Just go in with your eyes open. If buying from China - hope for the best & plan for the worst.

    Europe, should be ok.

    US = no issues... So I've found.

    I'm starting to look more locally for deals comparable to what I usually find outside of my country.

    Just recently purchased an Urge Veggie Enduro helmet going @50% off from my own land. Shipping's a lot quicker too ;-)

    'We'll all make it to the top... Some of us, might not make it to the bottom'
    "Mountain biking: the under-rated and drug-free antidepressant"

  6. #6
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    27,964
    I've used YoJimbo's Garage on Ebay several times. Always perfect.

    https://www.ebay.com/usr/yojimbos_ga...p2047675.l2559

    There are maybe two of these vendors on ebay that I'd spend my money on, this is one of them.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    365
    From the listing: "all payments will be run through Pay-pal."

    Just open a case with either eBay or PayPal and pick item not as described. You may as well take pictures that show the length disparity and poor threads.

    The seller also has 0 neutral and 0 negative feedback in the last year and 5400+ transactions. You won't get therapy like on MTBR for your eBay buy gone wrong, but leave the feedback there if the seller deserves it.

    Based on no negative feedback, no comments about a case, and no pictures ... well I'll just say I hope you get this straightened out. Sorry you can't build your wheels.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sfer1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    751
    I live in Argentina. I had the spokes shipped to an American friend of mine. I was going to travel to the US early December, but I ended up doing it late January. When I finally got the spokes and inspected them, it was already too late to open a case with eBay or PayPal. What bothers me the most is that I can't even leave well-deserved negative feedback for the guy.

    This is one of the "293mm" spokes. As you can see, it's 294mm long and uncut. Sapim makes CX-Ray spokes only in even lengths. There's no such thing as an uncut 293mm CX-Ray, so this couldn't have been a honest mistake. I paid for custom cut spokes, childhood_dreams sent me regular stock 294mm ones, knowing that he was screwing me.

    Looking to buy custom cut spokes? Avoid eBay seller childhood_dreams like the plague-294mm-cx-ray-.jpg
    Looking to buy custom cut spokes? Avoid eBay seller childhood_dreams like the plague-294mm-cx-ray-b.jpg
    Looking to buy custom cut spokes? Avoid eBay seller childhood_dreams like the plague-294mm-cx-ray-c.jpg

    I can't seem to capture the extended threads of the 292mm spokes well with my cellphone camera, but the 2mm where the threads were extended are silver, instead of black, like material has been removed.

    This is the best I could do:

    Looking to buy custom cut spokes? Avoid eBay seller childhood_dreams like the plague-292mm-cx-rays.jpg

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sfer1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    751
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    I've used YoJimbo's Garage on Ebay several times. Always perfect.

    https://www.ebay.com/usr/yojimbos_ga...p2047675.l2559

    There are maybe two of these vendors on ebay that I'd spend my money on, this is one of them.
    I almost ordered the spokes from this seller, but I went with childhood_dreams because his price was a little better at the time. I regret it now.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    365
    Looking at solutions. Does the 1mm really matter? I'm not a pro wheel builder, but +-1mm has never been a problem for me. As long as the nipple doesn't bottom, use them. At least they aren't too short.

    As far as the threading, I can't really see from the pictures. I'll take your word that it is bad, but every spoke I've seen that is threaded after the fact has a different appearance than the original threads. Plus it looks to be only the last 4 or 5 threads. I'd use them. That part will be hidden, and I've never seen a spoke fail 4 or 5 threads from the end unless only 4 or 5 threads were used (wrong spoke).

    I realize that part (all?) of this post is about not getting the product you paid a high price for, and that is fine. My cheap spoke source states a +-1 mm tolerance anyway, so I always round up to the next even size. I have had a few spokes with threads that stuck past the nipple into the wheel by a thread or two. I can't say in my case it was the tolerances, but likely my bad use of ERD and hub dimensions, So for it has always worked out without nipple bottoming. I hope it works out for you, sorry you got screwed and its to late to do anything about it.

  11. #11
    West Chester, PA
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,277
    I'm just stunned you'd pay extra to get spokes 1mm different from a stock size. There's a reason they make them in 2mm increments... Cause it doesn't matter.

    If the guy really cut 294s down to 292, then yeah, that's BS. Lot of work for no reason.

  12. #12
    turtles make me hot
    Reputation: NYrr496's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    9,007
    I would really like to know what happened here. Spokes are usually the last thing to show up when I build wheels. I get the rims first and measure the ERD. The hubs get to me in two days and by the time the spokes come, I need to be applying spoke prep asap.
    I got no time for incorrect length spokes.
    I like turtles

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Rngspnr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    554
    I've used Yojimbo's garage a few times he's a reputable seller. My buddy just used Childhood dreams for a build. The spokes where fine and proper length. Only thing is he didn't get the extra spokes he ordered. They were Sapim spokes though. I've also used Thor USA for Sapim spokes and he was excellent to deal with.
    2016 Evil Following V1
    2016 Dartmoor Primal+

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sfer1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    751
    Quote Originally Posted by adaycj View Post
    Looking at solutions. Does the 1mm really matter? I'm not a pro wheel builder, but +-1mm has never been a problem for me. As long as the nipple doesn't bottom, use them. At least they aren't too short.

    As far as the threading, I can't really see from the pictures. I'll take your word that it is bad, but every spoke I've seen that is threaded after the fact has a different appearance than the original threads. Plus it looks to be only the last 4 or 5 threads. I'd use them. That part will be hidden, and I've never seen a spoke fail 4 or 5 threads from the end unless only 4 or 5 threads were used (wrong spoke).

    I realize that part (all?) of this post is about not getting the product you paid a high price for, and that is fine. My cheap spoke source states a +-1 mm tolerance anyway, so I always round up to the next even size. I have had a few spokes with threads that stuck past the nipple into the wheel by a thread or two. I can't say in my case it was the tolerances, but likely my bad use of ERD and hub dimensions, So for it has always worked out without nipple bottoming. I hope it works out for you, sorry you got screwed and its to late to do anything about it.
    +1mm doesn't matter when you build the wheels, but it could matter over time.

    Perfect spoke length
    Looking to buy custom cut spokes? Avoid eBay seller childhood_dreams like the plague-correct-spoke-length.jpg

    Bottomed out thread
    Looking to buy custom cut spokes? Avoid eBay seller childhood_dreams like the plague-bottomed-out-spoke.jpg

    There're about 2mm between them. Spokes, particularly light ones, tend to stretch over time. If you build your wheels with light spokes that are already 1mm too long from the start, you may not be able to tighten the spokes in the future.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sfer1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    751
    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    I would really like to know what happened here. Spokes are usually the last thing to show up when I build wheels. I get the rims first and measure the ERD. The hubs get to me in two days and by the time the spokes come, I need to be applying spoke prep asap.
    I got no time for incorrect length spokes.
    What happened here? He knew that someone who orders 293mm spokes, a length that Sapim doesn't make, wants spokes precisely custom cut to that length, but he sent me regular 294mm ones probably thinking that I wouldn't notice the difference.

  16. #16
    All fat, all the time.
    Reputation: Shark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    7,412
    Does he have a phone#?

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sfer1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    751
    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli View Post
    I'm just stunned you'd pay extra to get spokes 1mm different from a stock size. There's a reason they make them in 2mm increments... Cause it doesn't matter.

    If the guy really cut 294s down to 292, then yeah, that's BS. Lot of work for no reason.
    They make them in 2mm increments to reduce manufacturing costs. DT Swiss makes some models in 1mm increments though.

    I assume he cut down 294s to 292, because didn't have 292 in stock.

  18. #18
    turtles make me hot
    Reputation: NYrr496's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    9,007
    Quote Originally Posted by sfer1 View Post
    What happened here? He knew that someone who orders 293mm spokes, a length that Sapim doesn't make, wants spokes precisely custom cut to that length, but he sent me regular 294mm ones probably thinking that I wouldn't notice the difference.
    I'd bet it had everything to do with the fact that you ordered X Rays. 99% of the time, I just buy Race. Simple double butted spokes that he probably has thousands of. Maybe the X Rays don't cut as nice? Just guessing.
    I'm not taking his side, if it were me, I'd want him to contact me and let me know what he's going to do.
    I like turtles

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Lombard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    131
    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli View Post
    I'm just stunned you'd pay extra to get spokes 1mm different from a stock size. There's a reason they make them in 2mm increments... Cause it doesn't matter.
    ^This.^

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Lombard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    131
    Quote Originally Posted by sfer1 View Post
    +1mm doesn't matter when you build the wheels, but it could matter over time.

    Perfect spoke length
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Correct spoke length.jpg 
Views:	34 
Size:	35.0 KB 
ID:	1183006

    Bottomed out thread
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Bottomed out spoke.jpg 
Views:	31 
Size:	38.3 KB 
ID:	1183007

    There're about 2mm between them. Spokes, particularly light ones, tend to stretch over time. If you build your wheels with light spokes that are already 1mm too long from the start, you may not be able to tighten the spokes in the future.
    Spokes do not stretch more than 1mm over the life of a wheel. If they do, it's not actual spoke stretching, but rather that you didn't do proper stress relieving when you built the wheel. So they are effectively being relieved (bedding into your hubs and rims as well as straightening) as you ride.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: One Pivot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    6,728
    It think about 80% of the spokes I got from Dan's comp were up to 1mm off. Their machine cut spokes at an angle too. I used thousands of them!

    No one cuts threads. It would take forever and you'd need a custom die. Maybe their Phil wood machine was rolling deeper or something weird. Either way, nothing wrong with cutting and rolling threads. I don't know about cx Ray's, but races are made that way from the factory.

    ... Honestly those are fine and you should use them.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Schulze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    705

    Idea!

    Here are five randomly selected DT Aerolite spokes from a group of 68 that were cut using a Phil Wood machine. There is even one with a black section, just like yours. To my eye they look identical to your picture.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Looking to buy custom cut spokes? Avoid eBay seller childhood_dreams like the plague-dt-aerolite.jpg  


  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ATXZJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    797
    Bought 72 sapim race spokes from childhood dreams for $56 delivered. Spokes were spot on, and they were great to deal with.

    Dunno what to tell you.
    16 Process 111DL
    15 Process 134DL
    16 Process 153DL
    16 Honzo DL
    16 Private Jake
    17 Hei Hei DLc

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation: One Pivot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    6,728
    I don't think there's actually a problem. That's just what the spoke machine does, but its what its designed to do.

    Dans comp is over. $56 delivered sounds pretty good to me.

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    651
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    I've used YoJimbo's Garage on Ebay several times. Always perfect.

    https://www.ebay.com/usr/yojimbos_ga...p2047675.l2559

    There are maybe two of these vendors on ebay that I'd spend my money on, this is one of them.
    I've had perfectly happy experience with Yojimbo, too. And stickers for the toolbox!

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sfer1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    751
    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    I don't think there's actually a problem. That's just what the spoke machine does, but its what its designed to do.

    Dans comp is over. $56 delivered sounds pretty good to me.
    There may not be a problem with the 292mm spokes, but the main issue here is that I paid ~$100 for 31x CX-Rays custom cut to 293mm, but childhood_dreams sent me regular stock 294mm ones instead.

    He's perfectly aware that someone who orders spokes in 293mm, a length that Sapim doesn't make, wants 293mm, not 294mm.

    childhood_dreams is charging $3.60 per CX-Ray. If I wanted 294mm, I would have ordered them from r2-bike, where they cost 1.89 euros (2.34 US dollars) each.

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    365
    Quote Originally Posted by sfer1 View Post
    +1mm doesn't matter when you build the wheels, but it could matter over time.

    Perfect spoke length
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Correct spoke length.jpg 
Views:	34 
Size:	35.0 KB 
ID:	1183006

    Bottomed out thread
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Bottomed out spoke.jpg 
Views:	31 
Size:	38.3 KB 
ID:	1183007

    There're about 2mm between them. Spokes, particularly light ones, tend to stretch over time. If you build your wheels with light spokes that are already 1mm too long from the start, you may not be able to tighten the spokes in the future.
    I disagree that the first spoke is ideal. The spoke is aready too long by 1mm if that is to be the tensioned position. I didn't post that stuff to challenge you decisions about spoke length, only to highlight potential solutions that correlated with my non-professional experience.

    I agree with your first post in general. The product, some or all of it, was not as described. If the seller didn't want to sell spokes at the length decribed, he shouldn't take the order, or offer a prompt refund. One thing that is wrong with eBay and online phurchaes in general is the loss of the idea that the product should be right, and sometimes it can take more than 30 days or whatever to find out.

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sfer1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    751
    Quote Originally Posted by adaycj View Post
    I disagree that the first spoke is ideal. The spoke is aready too long by 1mm if that is to be the tensioned position. I didn't post that stuff to challenge you decisions about spoke length, only to highlight potential solutions that correlated with my non-professional experience.

    I agree with your first post in general. The product, some or all of it, was not as described. If the seller didn't want to sell spokes at the length decribed, he shouldn't take the order, or offer a prompt refund. One thing that is wrong with eBay and online phurchaes in general is the loss of the idea that the product should be right, and sometimes it can take more than 30 days or whatever to find out.
    The first spoke is less than 0.5mm past the slot in nipple head. 0.5mm past the slot is the correct position according to some sources. Others say "perfect" is even with the slot. I calculate the spoke length so my spokes end as close as even with the slot as possible. I took the picture that way, because even with the slot wouldn't have shown where the spoke was ending.

    Looking to buy custom cut spokes? Avoid eBay seller childhood_dreams like the plague-nipple-thread.jpg

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Lombard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    131
    Quote Originally Posted by sfer1 View Post
    I contacted him with no response. If this was a honest mistake, he would have replied offering to make things right. He's a crook.
    I will agree that regardless of whether or not it is silly to order spokes in custom lengths, if you contacted the vendor and they never responded, that is grounds for filing a complaint with eBay. I hope you have done that.

    You ordered custom lengths and got standard lengths at custom length prices.

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Schulze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    705
    Quote Originally Posted by sfer1 View Post
    childhood_dreams is charging $3.60 per CX-Ray. If I wanted 294mm, I would have ordered them from r2-bike, where they cost 1.89 euros (2.34 US dollars) each.
    And then shipping cost from Germany, plus the wait. Invalid argument.

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ATXZJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    797
    Quote Originally Posted by sfer1 View Post
    The first spoke is less than 0.5mm past the slot in nipple head. 0.5mm past the slot is the correct position according to some sources. Others say "perfect" is even with the slot. I calculate the spoke length so my spokes end as close as even with the slot as possible. I took the picture that way, because even with the slot wouldn't have shown where the spoke was ending.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	nipple-thread.jpg 
Views:	11 
Size:	44.4 KB 
ID:	1183533
    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    I will agree that regardless of whether or not it is silly to order spokes in custom lengths, if you contacted the vendor and they never responded, that is grounds for filing a complaint with eBay. I hope you have done that.

    You ordered custom lengths and got standard lengths at custom length prices.
    I paid for 72 spokes and received 64 from childhood. Emailed him and received a response the next day and the spokes followed 3-4 days later.

    You might be doing it wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    And then shipping cost from Germany, plus the wait. Invalid argument.
    Having gone back and forth with starbike & bike-discount on missing parts and orders, i can concur that the savings is not that high.
    16 Process 111DL
    15 Process 134DL
    16 Process 153DL
    16 Honzo DL
    16 Private Jake
    17 Hei Hei DLc

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    261
    I've ordered spokes from childhood dreams multiple times and always received proper lengths. Just finished another build last night using his spokes and length was perfect, right up to the nipple slot the way I like it.

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sfer1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    751
    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    And then shipping cost from Germany, plus the wait. Invalid argument.
    Most German bicycle stores charge 20-25 euro flat rate shipping, no matter if you order spokes or 8 tires. I order bike parts from Germany all the time, because many brands are much cheaper there than in the US. I could have just added the spokes to one of my orders. Shipping would have been "free." The wait is around 10 days.

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    1
    First an foremost, "Thank you" to those of you who have forwarded me a link to this negative thread against my business. I have been helping those who choose to build their own wheel for over 20 years and I appreciated everyone one of you. I typically stay off the chat boards due to having to keep up with a 8-5 job, spokes on the side, and raising a family, but in this case, I got a log-on so I could at-least tell my side of the story to explain a few details of what was done and why. This will be my only response to this thread. Sorry for any typos.

    Lesson to all…. If you every have a situation where you think something is wrong with what you received, send a message outlining what you feel is wrong so a seller can reach out with a helpful response. Don't send a negative laced paragraph. It sets the wrong tone for a fruitful response.

    Cost at the time of purchase (2 1/2 months prior) was $3.00 per spoke with a 12mm Black Brass spoke nipple included with each spoke. Cost has gone up since then due to Sapim starting a MAP policy for their items. (True not all are following this policy but I want to play by the rules and continue offering great spokes to the community that chooses to build wheels for themselves.)

    Correct that the 293 spokes were sent from 294 stock spokes. Sapim spokes "historically" measure short. I sent the 294's as uncut due to the spokes measuring just above 293 with my Phil wood ruler. Very tough to resize spokes down under .5 mm so I choose to send them as they were. By the tone of your message that you sent, had I sent the stock 294's resized down you would have probably sent the same negative toned message of your disapproval that the spokes were cut not rolled. Yes, 292mm spokes were resized from 294mm spokes. Had I sent the stock 292 spokes, you would have accused me of sending spokes that were to short due to Sapim being a bit short. The spokes were prepared on a Phil wood spoke machine so yes, they were "rolled" as a Phil wood machine does and not cut that you so admittedly claim.

    Being that you stated you were "completely dissatisfied" with your purchase over the details you outlined, there is no way to satisfy you. I see others have responded in this thread of how the difference is so minuscule and that the spokes are perfectly fine to build with. I understand anal, but at the same time, I also understand when someone is being so picky that no matter what a supplier does, the buyer is never happy due to being hung up on details that do not effect the end result of a bad wheel build.

    Being that your negative laced message did not ask for any resolution, Yes, I choose not to respond due to reasons outlined above.

    Fernando, I will throw this offer out to you. You return the spokes and nipples back to my address, and you will receive a 100% refund if the spokes have not been laced up or spoke prepped. (I need to be able to ship them to someone else) You have my email address from your pay-pal payment, so please feel free to reach out.

    I will not keep going back and forth with this topic beyond this point in public.

    To my current customers that purchase from me, Thank you for the support throughout the years. I look forward to your continued support. To those who don't know me, please don't let this bit of negative scare you away from the services that I offer. If anyone needs any spokes and nipples for builds coming up, please reach out. I can help with any spoke, nipple, washer, or tool needs. I have a passion for the business and plan to continue in the business for years to come. I keep an extensive stock of spokes and nipples in stock. Let me know if I can help.
    Regards,
    Lee - lkspoke@yahoo.com

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sfer1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    751
    Quote Originally Posted by ATXZJ View Post
    I paid for 72 spokes and received 64 from childhood. Emailed him and received a response the next day and the spokes followed 3-4 days later.

    You might be doing it wrong.

    Having gone back and forth with starbike & bike-discount on missing parts and orders, i can concur that the savings is not that high.
    How could I be doing it wrong? I sent him a message through the proper channel: eBay.

    Looking to buy custom cut spokes? Avoid eBay seller childhood_dreams like the plague-chilhood_dreams-no-response.jpg

    I got no response.

    Mine is a completely different case than yours because A) he knows that I can no longer leave negative feedback for him nor open a case with eBay/PayPal, and B) replacing the 31 CX-Rays would cost him a lot more than sending you the 8 spokes he forgot to include in your order.

    A honest seller would have made things right even knowing there would be no consequences if he didn't. Clearly not the case with this guy.

    I've ordered from Starbike 4 or 5 times and from bike-discount at least twice as many. I've never had to claim a loss. I'm not going to tell you that you might be doing it wrong though, because I never jump to the defense of a seller/store that didn't offer a good after-sale service, like some people seem to feel the need to here.

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Schulze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    705
    Lesson to all…. If you every have a situation where you think something is wrong with what you received, send a message outlining what you feel is wrong so a seller can reach out with a helpful response. Don't send a negative laced paragraph. It sets the wrong tone for a fruitful response.
    Illogical. Irrespective of the "tone", a seller should seek to find the source of the consternation and offer a correction or explanation. Your explanation of the shortness of stock Sapim spokes was educational. However, you could have grabbed 296mm spokes and shortened them to 293mm. Did you consider this?

  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sfer1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    751
    Quote Originally Posted by Spoke Source View Post
    First an foremost, "Thank you" to those of you who have forwarded me a link to this negative thread against my business. I have been helping those who choose to build their own wheel for over 20 years and I appreciated everyone one of you. I typically stay off the chat boards due to having to keep up with a 8-5 job, spokes on the side, and raising a family, but in this case, I got a log-on so I could at-least tell my side of the story to explain a few details of what was done and why. This will be my only response to this thread. Sorry for any typos.

    Lesson to all…. If you every have a situation where you think something is wrong with what you received, send a message outlining what you feel is wrong so a seller can reach out with a helpful response. Don't send a negative laced paragraph. It sets the wrong tone for a fruitful response.

    Cost at the time of purchase (2 1/2 months prior) was $3.00 per spoke with a 12mm Black Brass spoke nipple included with each spoke. Cost has gone up since then due to Sapim starting a MAP policy for their items. (True not all are following this policy but I want to play by the rules and continue offering great spokes to the community that chooses to build wheels for themselves.)

    Correct that the 293 spokes were sent from 294 stock spokes. Sapim spokes "historically" measure short. I sent the 294's as uncut due to the spokes measuring just above 293 with my Phil wood ruler. Very tough to resize spokes down under .5 mm so I choose to send them as they were. By the tone of your message that you sent, had I sent the stock 294's resized down you would have probably sent the same negative toned message of your disapproval that the spokes were cut not rolled. Yes, 292mm spokes were resized from 294mm spokes. Had I sent the stock 292 spokes, you would have accused me of sending spokes that were to short due to Sapim being a bit short. The spokes were prepared on a Phil wood spoke machine so yes, they were "rolled" as a Phil wood machine does and not cut that you so admittedly claim.

    Being that you stated you were "completely dissatisfied" with your purchase over the details you outlined, there is no way to satisfy you. I see others have responded in this thread of how the difference is so minuscule and that the spokes are perfectly fine to build with. I understand anal, but at the same time, I also understand when someone is being so picky that no matter what a supplier does, the buyer is never happy due to being hung up on details that do not effect the end result of a bad wheel build.

    Being that your negative laced message did not ask for any resolution, Yes, I choose not to respond due to reasons outlined above.

    Fernando, I will throw this offer out to you. You return the spokes and nipples back to my address, and you will receive a 100% refund if the spokes have not been laced up or spoke prepped. (I need to be able to ship them to someone else) You have my email address from your pay-pal payment, so please feel free to reach out.

    I will not keep going back and forth with this topic beyond this point in public.

    To my current customers that purchase from me, Thank you for the support throughout the years. I look forward to your continued support. To those who don't know me, please don't let this bit of negative scare you away from the services that I offer. If anyone needs any spokes and nipples for builds coming up, please reach out. I can help with any spoke, nipple, washer, or tool needs. I have a passion for the business and plan to continue in the business for years to come. I keep an extensive stock of spokes and nipples in stock. Let me know if I can help.
    Regards,
    Lee - lkspoke@yahoo.com
    First, while it's true that Sapim spokes "historically" measured a bit short, that seems to be no longer the case, considering that the 294mm spokes that you sent me measure 294mm. If they had measured 293mm, instead of 294mm, I wouldn't have complained.

    It doesn't really matter if stock Sapim spokes measure short or long though. I ordered spokes custom cut to length. The spokes I received should have measured the precise lengths that I ordered.

    Second, you said that it's very though to resize spokes down under .5 mm. From 294mm to 293mm is actually 1mm, not 0.5mm, but that's not even the point. You wouldn't have had to resize 294mm to 293mm if you had had lengths other than 294mm in stock. The problem here seems to be that you only had 294mm in stock.

    Considering that you didn't reply to my message and only offered a solution after someone told you about this thread, what guarantee do I have that if I return the spokes and nipples to you, I won't end up without the goods and my money?

  38. #38
    All fat, all the time.
    Reputation: Shark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    7,412
    Just use the freaking spokes already! Lol 1mm geez.

  39. #39
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sfer1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    751
    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    Just use the freaking spokes already! Lol 1mm geez.
    I'm building a high-end XC wheelset with 2018 Carbon-Ti hubs and 315g carbon rims. I ordered custom lengths do it exactly like it should be done, not sort of OKish, and got standard lengths at custom length prices.

  40. #40
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Lombard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    131
    Lots of blame to go around here. As the saying goes, there are three sides to every story - your side, my side and the truth.

    It sounds like the buyer could have used more decorum in his complaint to the vendor.

    Regardless of the above or who is correct, the vendor should have responded to the buyer even if it is just to tell the buyer that this type of email behavior is unacceptable. Unreasonable buyers do exist and there is only a certain amount of abuse one can take in a given week. Heck, the vendor took the time to write a long explanation here, why couldn't he have responded to the buyer with a short note? No response is the worst type of response short of a threatening response.

    Sfer1, it sounds like a resolution has been reached. Send back the damn spokes and if the vendor doesn't refund you, file a complaint with eBay and they will cover it. Done. Buy your spokes elsewhere, build your wheels, ride your bike and don't look back.

  41. #41
    transmitter~receiver
    Reputation: meltingfeather's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    9,224
    Quote Originally Posted by sfer1 View Post
    Considering that you didn't reply to my message and only offered a solution after someone told you about this thread, what guarantee do I have that if I return the spokes and nipples to you, I won't end up without the goods and my money?
    Open a dispute with eBay and if he doesn't respond you'll get your money back and keep the spokes.
    Let the bad blood go and just get to a solution. Trashing this guy, who has a long history of good business practices and satisfied customers, is not doing you any good.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  42. #42
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Schulze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    705
    Quote Originally Posted by sfer1 View Post
    I'm building a high-end XC wheelset with 2018 Carbon-Ti hubs and 315g carbon rims. I ordered custom lengths do it exactly like it should be done, not sort of OKish, and got standard lengths at custom length prices.
    Man, liberate yourself and get some of these with your R2 bike order. I do all my wheelsets with ONE spoke length.


  43. #43
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ATXZJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    797
    Quote Originally Posted by Spoke Source View Post



    Fernando, I will throw this offer out to you. You return the spokes and nipples back to my address, and you will receive a 100% refund if the spokes have not been laced up or spoke prepped. (I need to be able to ship them to someone else) You have my email address from your pay-pal payment, so please feel free to reach out.

    I will not keep going back and forth with this topic beyond this point in public.

    Lee - lkspoke@yahoo.com
    Quote Originally Posted by sfer1 View Post
    Considering that you didn't reply to my message and only offered a solution after someone told you about this thread, what guarantee do I have that if I return the spokes and nipples to you, I won't end up without the goods and my money?

    The vendor contacted you

    You have paypal protection

    Stop whining like a little girl and settle this offline
    16 Process 111DL
    15 Process 134DL
    16 Process 153DL
    16 Honzo DL
    16 Private Jake
    17 Hei Hei DLc

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sfer1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    751
    Quote Originally Posted by ATXZJ View Post
    The vendor contacted you

    You have paypal protection

    Stop whining like a little girl and settle this offline
    No, I don't have PayPal protection. Your boyfriend only posted here. He didn't reply to my message on eBay. Besides, as I've mentioned several times before, I can no longer open a case with eBay/PayPal. The time to file a complaint has expired. If I returned the spokes and nipples to him and he decided not to refund me, I would end up with nothing. Excuse me for not trusting a seller who was deliberately ignoring my complaint until he learned about this thread and only posted here to try to save face. Not to mention that now that I'm back in Argentina, returning the spokes would cost about $27. Why should I lose $27 because HE didn't send the length that I ordered?

  45. #45
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ATXZJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    797
    Quote Originally Posted by Spoke Source View Post
    First an foremost, "Thank you" to those of you who have forwarded me a link to this negative thread against my business. I have been helping those who choose to build their own wheel for over 20 years and I appreciated everyone one of you. I typically stay off the chat boards due to having to keep up with a 8-5 job, spokes on the side, and raising a family, but in this case, I got a log-on so I could at-least tell my side of the story to explain a few details of what was done and why. This will be my only response to this thread. Sorry for any typos.

    Lesson to all…. If you every have a situation where you think something is wrong with what you received, send a message outlining what you feel is wrong so a seller can reach out with a helpful response. Don't send a negative laced paragraph. It sets the wrong tone for a fruitful response.

    Cost at the time of purchase (2 1/2 months prior) was $3.00 per spoke with a 12mm Black Brass spoke nipple included with each spoke. Cost has gone up since then due to Sapim starting a MAP policy for their items. (True not all are following this policy but I want to play by the rules and continue offering great spokes to the community that chooses to build wheels for themselves.)

    Correct that the 293 spokes were sent from 294 stock spokes. Sapim spokes "historically" measure short. I sent the 294's as uncut due to the spokes measuring just above 293 with my Phil wood ruler. Very tough to resize spokes down under .5 mm so I choose to send them as they were. By the tone of your message that you sent, had I sent the stock 294's resized down you would have probably sent the same negative toned message of your disapproval that the spokes were cut not rolled. Yes, 292mm spokes were resized from 294mm spokes. Had I sent the stock 292 spokes, you would have accused me of sending spokes that were to short due to Sapim being a bit short. The spokes were prepared on a Phil wood spoke machine so yes, they were "rolled" as a Phil wood machine does and not cut that you so admittedly claim.

    Being that you stated you were "completely dissatisfied" with your purchase over the details you outlined, there is no way to satisfy you. I see others have responded in this thread of how the difference is so minuscule and that the spokes are perfectly fine to build with. I understand anal, but at the same time, I also understand when someone is being so picky that no matter what a supplier does, the buyer is never happy due to being hung up on details that do not effect the end result of a bad wheel build.

    Being that your negative laced message did not ask for any resolution, Yes, I choose not to respond due to reasons outlined above.

    Fernando, I will throw this offer out to you. You return the spokes and nipples back to my address, and you will receive a 100% refund if the spokes have not been laced up or spoke prepped. (I need to be able to ship them to someone else) You have my email address from your pay-pal payment, so please feel free to reach out.

    I will not keep going back and forth with this topic beyond this point in public.

    To my current customers that purchase from me, Thank you for the support throughout the years. I look forward to your continued support. To those who don't know me, please don't let this bit of negative scare you away from the services that I offer. If anyone needs any spokes and nipples for builds coming up, please reach out. I can help with any spoke, nipple, washer, or tool needs. I have a passion for the business and plan to continue in the business for years to come. I keep an extensive stock of spokes and nipples in stock. Let me know if I can help.
    Regards,
    Lee - lkspoke@yahoo.com
    Quote Originally Posted by sfer1 View Post
    No, I don't have PayPal protection. Your boyfriend only posted here. He didn't reply to my message on eBay. Besides, as I've mentioned several times before, I can no longer open a case with eBay/PayPal. The time to file a complaint has expired. If I returned the spokes and nipples to him and he decided not to refund me, I would end up with nothing. Excuse me for not trusting a seller who was deliberately ignoring my complaint until he learned about this thread and only posted here to try to save face. Not to mention that now that I'm back in Argentina, returning the spokes would cost about $27. Why should I lose $27 because HE didn't send the length that I ordered?
    Let me get this straight.

    You bought custom length spokes, on ebay, from a vendor named "childhood dreams", and didnt use paypal?

    Like i said earlier, youre doing it wrong
    16 Process 111DL
    15 Process 134DL
    16 Process 153DL
    16 Honzo DL
    16 Private Jake
    17 Hei Hei DLc

  46. #46
    mtbr member
    Reputation: 006_007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    9,084
    Quote Originally Posted by sfer1 View Post
    No, I don't have PayPal protection. Your boyfriend only posted here. He didn't reply to my message on eBay. Besides, as I've mentioned several times before, I can no longer open a case with eBay/PayPal. The time to file a complaint has expired. If I returned the spokes and nipples to him and he decided not to refund me, I would end up with nothing. Excuse me for not trusting a seller who was deliberately ignoring my complaint until he learned about this thread and only posted here to try to save face. Not to mention that now that I'm back in Argentina, returning the spokes would cost about $27. Why should I lose $27 because HE didn't send the length that I ordered?
    So maybe he should refund you your money and you can just use the spokes for free.

    FWIW I just ordered some spokes from him on ebay. Gave me a shipping discount to Canada!

  47. #47
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Lombard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    131
    Quote Originally Posted by ATXZJ View Post
    Let me get this straight.

    You bought custom length spokes, on ebay, from a vendor named "childhood dreams", and didnt use paypal?

    Like i said earlier, youre doing it wrong
    Don't you have to use Paypal when buying stuff off eBay? Otherwise, the purchase is "under the table" so to say.

    Some sellers do this to evade eBay's fees and offer buyers a discount. This is obviously against eBay rules.

    If the buyer offered to do this for a discount, who is to blame??

    Somehow, I don't think we're getting the whole story.

  48. #48
    All fat, all the time.
    Reputation: Shark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    7,412
    I ended up ordering 40 spokes and a bag of nipples from this seller, they showed up just as ordered (36 of one length and 4 share for another wheel), everything was perfect and they were shipped fast.
    I'll be ordering from him again.

Similar Threads

  1. Fulcrum Red Metal 3 Spokes - custom cut straight pull?
    By Doug in forum Wheels and Tires
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-16-2016, 08:58 AM
  2. ebay seller september-19
    By TwoTone in forum Where are the Best Deals?
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-11-2012, 07:53 AM
  3. Won a bid on ebay, seller not responding
    By Will Goes Boing in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 10-31-2011, 08:09 AM
  4. Should I avoid like the plague
    By mrspickless in forum Bike and Frame discussion
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09-23-2011, 07:49 AM
  5. So Ebay seller selling your Gary Fisher...
    By MadMacMan in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 03-08-2011, 04:17 PM

Members who have read this thread: 133

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •