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Thread: Hub Flanges

  1. #1
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    Hub Flanges

    In some hubs the flanges are not the same size in both sides............

    They are asymmetrical............and always the disc side has a larger diameter flange......................

    first i want to ask why is it so ????

    Hub  Flanges-p4pb13546705.jpg

    Shorter spokes = better force transfer from rotor to the rim ????

    and secondly i want to lace one of these the previous hub had a symmetrical flanges..............

    Hub  Flanges-p4pb14671564.jpg


    do i need to swap the disc side spokes ???? with shorter ones???

    or simply screw them more than the other side ??? to be aligned with the non disc side with smaller diameter flange ???

    thank you...............

  2. #2
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    You need to measure the hubs and run it through a spoke calculator.

    Check out Freespoke.com
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    you......... need to use mo.......re random series of............. periods.

    if you are measuring spoke lenghts, you need the dimensions of the hub within 1mm to get the right spoke lengths for a given wheel build. spokes don't have enough threads to just "screw them in more" and make them work.

    I suspect that the wider flanges on the disc side are partially so you can get the spokes through the holes. otherwise, the rotor mounting holes would be in the way and it would be impossible to build the wheel. there are more interesting reasons but I can't explain them.
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    also, I would think that you would know, since your screen name and your signature are the same as the brand name that makes the hubs in the photo. what's up with that?
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    also, I would think that you would know, since your screen name and your signature are the same as the brand name that makes the hubs in the photo. what's up with that?
    Oh man. Did I get shucked and jived?
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  6. #6
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    You sell lots of fat bikes over there?
    I like turtles

  7. #7
    oh my TVC 15
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    I have a fake question that I'm asking so I can market my hubs for free on your forum. Oh really? I have some neg rep just waiting for you. BTW, if you don't know the answer you're probably selling the wrong stuff.
    Signed - Chris King (not really, just jacking with you).
    The most expensive bike in the world is still cheaper than the cheapest open heart surgery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    also, I would think that you would know, since your screen name and your signature are the same as the brand name that makes the hubs in the photo. what's up with that?
    Koozer's...straight out of Tehran???
    He's a retailer in Iran that sells several different brands of hubs (and other MTB components and bikes), none of which are his own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forster View Post
    I have a fake question that I'm asking so I can market my hubs for free on your forum. Oh really? I have some neg rep just waiting for you. BTW, if you don't know the answer you're probably selling the wrong stuff.
    Signed - Chris King (not really, just jacking with you).
    The clownsmanship around here never disappoints.

    Why not step away from the reputation circle jerk long enough to click a few links and actually figure out what this guy's game is. I doubt he's stocking shop with a QBP or Euro-Asia catalog, and getting actual technical info is probably just as challenging. Answer his questions and maybe pass some knowledge on to some fellow bikers who may not have the same free access to information and commerce as we have here.

  9. #9
    oh my TVC 15
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    Oh, so it's well intended spam by a retailer who doen't understand his product but can manage to get his website address into 4 places in a single post? Well then, never mind.
    The most expensive bike in the world is still cheaper than the cheapest open heart surgery.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    you......... need to use mo.......re random series of............. periods.

    if you are measuring spoke lenghts, you need the dimensions of the hub within 1mm to get the right spoke lengths for a given wheel build. spokes don't have enough threads to just "screw them in more" and make them work.

    I suspect that the wider flanges on the disc side are partially so you can get the spokes through the holes. otherwise, the rotor mounting holes would be in the way and it would be impossible to build the wheel. there are more interesting reasons but I can't explain them.


    For the periods................its my habbit cant quit...............

    But about that tha flange has a larger diameter to let the spokes go through with out hitting the opposite side flange..............

    there are many many many brands with.............same size flanges on both sides and i dont have any problem when lacing them............


    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    also, I would think that you would know, since your screen name and your signature are the same as the brand name that makes the hubs in the photo. what's up with that?
    Its not the brand of the hubs...................you dont know the / koozer / brand ??? or the other one the golden ones are / Rival / ...................

    the brand is my shops brand..................

    Quote Originally Posted by Forster View Post
    I have a fake question that I'm asking so I can market my hubs for free on your forum. Oh really? I have some neg rep just waiting for you. BTW, if you don't know the answer you're probably selling the wrong stuff.
    Signed - Chris King (not really, just jacking with you).
    No i cant do so as a large portion of MTBR members are living in the US and canada ..................and im just on the opposite side of the planet..............from here where we ride to the Rocky mountains where you ride..................its someting like 12K Km's distance..........................


    Quote Originally Posted by VegasSingleSpeed View Post
    Koozer's...straight out of Tehran???
    He's a retailer in Iran that sells several different brands of hubs (and other MTB components and bikes), none of which are his own.



    The clownsmanship around here never disappoints.

    Why not step away from the reputation circle jerk long enough to click a few links and actually figure out what this guy's game is. I doubt he's stocking shop with a QBP or Euro-Asia catalog, and getting actual technical info is probably just as challenging. Answer his questions and maybe pass some knowledge on to some fellow bikers who may not have the same free access to information and commerce as we have here.

    Ten years ago when i was more active here in MTBR the users had much much more respect for others .....................

    i dont know if the generation has changed or the time and era has changed the peoples humanity.......................

  11. #11
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    I legit answered him and then I asked him if he sells lots of fat bikes and he completely ignored me.

    He's on my S**t list.
    I like turtles

  12. #12
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    Actually no...................as fat bikes are for snow and sand....................

    in winter we have a lot of snow on the high altitudes.....also we have a lot of sandy deserts over here....................


    But the main parts our riders ride are trails near cities..........with mostly dry loose soil.............

    So the only people who but the fat bikes are those who wana show off with them......................and wana pick chiks..................

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    I legit answered him and then I asked him if he sells lots of fat bikes and he completely ignored me.

    He's on my S**t list.

    If you guys have a little amount of patience.......dont think the situations would get this shitty..............


    im truly believing poeple are really getting offended by every thing these days...................

    i just asked a simple technical question and just look at the amount of unrellated arguments....................

    By the way NYrr496 thanx for the link..................

  14. #14
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    I am seriously curious if you sell fat bikes in Iraq. If I was in that part of the world, I would think they'd be perfect.

    I don't really have a sh*t list.
    I like turtles

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    I am seriously curious if you sell fat bikes in Iraq. If I was in that part of the world, I would think they'd be perfect.

    I don't really have a sh*t list.
    Its not Iraq...............its Iran......................has a way way ot of difference in betweeen the two countries.................

    we have Specialized / Giant I-ride / And GT fat bikes over here..............

    Hub  Flanges-p4pb13666247.jpg


    by the way really dont blame me ..........for ignoring your first technical help..............

    i was shocked by the amount of unnecessary irrelevant thing some people posted up here..................

    they were just telling me i was guilty for posting my logo on the photos.............

    I just took the photos from my website..........i dont think i needed to photoshop the logo out...........

    they even dont bother themselves typing the site mentioned in the logo in their address bars they could find for themsleves.........im not even close to bargaining or advertising my stuff here..............

    they just started to type every thing it came to their minds against me...................

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by SABER_MTB
    Shorter spokes = better force transfer from rotor to the rim ????
    I guess that's the reasoning for the larger flange on the rotor side, though I couldn't say how much difference this makes. As a bonus it'll certainly make the wheel lacing easier, but I don't believe that would be the reason for the larger flange.

    There's an old carpenters' saying: "Measure twice, cut once". For wheelbuilding this translates to "Measure four times, buy spokes once". It's generally safe to take the hub manufacturer's pitch circle diameter (PCD) specification as accurate, but not so with the effective rim diameter (ERD) of the rim - this needs to be measured accurately as there really isn't much margin on spoke length and manufacturing variations mean that actual ERD figures will vary between one rim and the next for the same model.

    Roger Musson's wheelbuilding ebook will pay for itself after the first wheel. It tells you everything you need to know (while not particularly hard, measuring ERD isn't easy either).
    ...and midgemagnet.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grassington View Post
    I guess that's the reasoning for the larger flange on the rotor side, though I couldn't say how much difference this makes. As a bonus it'll certainly make the wheel lacing easier, but I don't believe that would be the reason for the larger flange.

    There's an old carpenters' saying: "Measure twice, cut once". For wheelbuilding this translates to "Measure four times, buy spokes once". It's generally safe to take the hub manufacturer's pitch circle diameter (PCD) specification as accurate, but not so with the effective rim diameter (ERD) of the rim - this needs to be measured accurately as there really isn't much margin on spoke length and manufacturing variations mean that actual ERD figures will vary between one rim and the next for the same model.

    Roger Musson's wheelbuilding ebook will pay for itself after the first wheel. It tells you everything you need to know (while not particularly hard, measuring ERD isn't easy either).

    Tanx........ but you know what the problem here is ???

    We dont have access to all sizes of spokes.................

    Only 26 " 27.7 " & 29" they dont mention exactly what the length is..............

    all people here just ffor example if you say i need an exact size of 285 mm spokes nobody understands you...............!!!!!!!!!!!


    they only understand 3 sizes.................26/275 / 29 thats it................

  18. #18
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    Sorry, but the only way to build a wheel is with the exact correct spoke length. You have about 1.5mm margin of error. There are no spokes for 29" wheels, just spokes of a specific length for a wheel, calculated with the number of spokes, crossings, hub dimensions, and rim effective diameter. If you can't calculate those, you will never get the correct spoke length and building wheels will be impossible.
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  19. #19
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    What if you purchase spokes on Ebay?
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  20. #20
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    While I half way want to avoid this thread like the plague..........

    Another reason for the larger flange is more even spoke angles. Many times youll see close to the same diameter on the rear hub since both flanges are set inward. but on the front, youll see a larger flange on the rotor side. This puts the spoke at a greater angle than could be achieved with a smaller flange diameter. But this is likely just an added benefit. Clearance is probably the primary reason.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    Sorry, but the only way to build a wheel is with the exact correct spoke length. You have about 1.5mm margin of error. There are no spokes for 29" wheels, just spokes of a specific length for a wheel, calculated with the number of spokes, crossings, hub dimensions, and rim effective diameter. If you can't calculate those, you will never get the correct spoke length and building wheels will be impossible.
    I know that bro...............my problem is that i cant access ebay o r online stores...........

    also we have another problem here also the costoms...................they charge us a lot.............for every thing we import..................just like when the US needs budget for was in Syria our government needs too......................and they rob it from our people...............via various systems.......

    one of them are the costoms............i can import the spokes i need for this hub but i have to wait till i want to import some thing big like some groupsets or components or a bike.................importing just one set of spokes................is not a good bargain for its value..............

    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    What if you purchase spokes on Ebay?
    ebay doents post it to Iran and if it does..............i mentioned above.........it would cost me too much............

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    While I half way want to avoid this thread like the plague..........

    Another reason for the larger flange is more even spoke angles. Many times youll see close to the same diameter on the rear hub since both flanges are set inward. but on the front, youll see a larger flange on the rotor side. This puts the spoke at a greater angle than could be achieved with a smaller flange diameter. But this is likely just an added benefit. Clearance is probably the primary reason.

  22. #22
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    Good to hear from ya again Saber - nice to see you are still riding!

    As others have said, you will need to do a spoke calculator to see what size spokes you need. With a little (a lot actually) luck you can re-use the spokes. Of the dozen times I have re-used a hub with a different rim I have had once where I could re-use the spokes. Sucks, and its wasteful, but whatcha gonna do?




    Quote Originally Posted by SABER_MTB View Post
    I know that bro...............my problem is that i cant access ebay o r online stores...........

    also we have another problem here also the costoms...................they charge us a lot.............for every thing we import..................just like when the US needs budget for was in Syria our government needs too......................and they rob it from our people...............via various systems.......

    one of them are the costoms............i can import the spokes i need for this hub but i have to wait till i want to import some thing big like some groupsets or components or a bike.................importing just one set of spokes................is not a good bargain for its value..............



    ebay doents post it to Iran and if it does..............i mentioned above.........it would cost me too much............




  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 006_007 View Post
    Good to hear from ya again Saber - nice to see you are still riding!

    As others have said, you will need to do a spoke calculator to see what size spokes you need. With a little (a lot actually) luck you can re-use the spokes. Of the dozen times I have re-used a hub with a different rim I have had once where I could re-use the spokes. Sucks, and its wasteful, but whatcha gonna do?
    hi Man..................thanx a lot...................

    the old ones were damaged............and useless..........rubbed against a pannier racks legs..................

    you remember me ???? 006-007 ??? from the good old days...........

  24. #24
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    While this will not help you now, if you plan to stay in the game in the long run, you may want to try to find a spoke threading machine. The Phil Wood and Morizumi machines are very expensive (several thousand dollars), but Hozan makes a fixture that allows you to roll threads on 2.0mm spokes and only costs about $200 USD. The Hozan spoke threader is time intensive, but reusing existing 2.0mm spokes and cutting/threading them to the length you need might help you get around your issues importing spokes.

    I'll be building up 5 wheels later this month and I'll admit that I take for granted that I can place my spoke order online and receive my spokes in less than a week. Trivial for us, but a logistical and economical challenge for you

  25. #25
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    Another reason for the difference in the flanges, is so that you can use the same spoke length on both sides.
    As a rule, the rear drive side and the front disc side have shorter spoke lengths, by increasing the perimeter of the flange spoke holes circle you are effectively shortening the length of the spokes, so that way you can just use one size of spokes on both sides.

    Another thing that may help you, changing the lacing cross type on one or both sides of a wheel will give you more options, ex:
    One side is laced with 3X, and you need to replace your rim, but the new rim has a bigger IRD value, say 590mm instead of 580mm, changing the original 3X lacing to 2X, may allow you to reuse the same spokes , as lower crossing patterns use shorter spokes. The other way around is also possible.
    Hope my explanation wasn't too confusing.
    BUT, and this is a BIG BUT, never go from 4X, or 3X, or 2X, or 1X lacing pattern to Radial lacing pattern on a hub that's not design to be laced as Radial, because you will damage your hub. But using a hub design to be laced with a Radial pattern with X cross patterns is possible and safe.

    EDIT: I shouldn't use my phone to write long replies, so many errors :/.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by VegasSingleSpeed View Post
    While this will not help you now, if you plan to stay in the game in the long run, you may want to try to find a spoke threading machine. The Phil Wood and Morizumi machines are very expensive (several thousand dollars), but Hozan makes a fixture that allows you to roll threads on 2.0mm spokes and only costs about $200 USD. The Hozan spoke threader is time intensive, but reusing existing 2.0mm spokes and cutting/threading them to the length you need might help you get around your issues importing spokes.

    I'll be building up 5 wheels later this month and I'll admit that I take for granted that I can place my spoke order online and receive my spokes in less than a week. Trivial for us, but a logistical and economical challenge for you
    hmmmm i have a friend here who has the Hozan thread machine ...............

    but you know there is a secret i havnt spoke of................

    I hate lacing..............i really do hate it a lot............i prefer not going through a lacing process if it requires a lot of effort and calculations............

    instead put my time on somehing else like forks and brakes..................my loved subjects.............

    Quote Originally Posted by Aglo View Post
    Another reason for the difference in the flanges, is so that you can use the same spoke length on both sides.
    As a rule, the rear drive side and the front disc side have shorter spoke lengths, by increasing the perimeter of the flange spoke holes circle you are effectively shortening the length of the spokes, so that way you can just use one size of spokes on both sides.

    Another thing that may help you, changing the lacing cross type on one or both sides of a wheel will give you more options, ex:
    One side is laced with 3X, and you need to replace your rim, but the new rim has a bigger IRD value, say 590mm instead of 580mm, changing the original 3X lacing to 2X, may allow you to reuse the same spokes , as lower crossing patterns use shorter spokes. The other way around is also possible.
    Hope my explanation wasn't too confusing.
    BUT, and this is a BIG BUT, never go from 4X, or 3X, or 2X, or 1X lacing pattern to Radial lacing pattern on a hub that's not design to be laced as Radial, because you will damage your hub. But using a hub design to be laced with a Radial pattern with X cross patterns is possible and safe.

    EDIT: I shouldn't use my phone to write long replies, so many errors :/.
    tanx a lot..................the only lacing type i have mastered now is the 3X .......and also the rig is a all mountain rig that the rider also puts a lot pressure on the bike and abuses it a lot...........so i thin k going to 2X from 3x whould weaken the wheel................

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SABER_MTB View Post
    hi Man..................thanx a lot...................

    the old ones were damaged............and useless..........rubbed against a pannier racks legs..................

    you remember me ???? 006-007 ??? from the good old days...........
    I recall back then you were on some sort of an azonic single pivot?? What ya riding now?

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by 006_007 View Post
    I recall back then you were on some sort of an azonic single pivot?? What ya riding now?
    Azonic Single pivot ?????

    There had never been Azonic bikes in Iran............In fact i had a Stinky.................the first Kona in Iran.......

    In 2012 i had a foot injury unrelated to biking.....................and till then i havnt ridden that much.....................had an unsuccessful surgery and everytjing spolied

    But thanx god after half a decade im getting better.................

    I ride xc every now and then..............
    have a 2008 Giant Allias Frame with some parts i have built myself

    Hub  Flanges-img_8865.jpg

    * the balck rig is mine but im behind the lens my self

    and for gravity ridding i have Trek Session with custom parts that the last time i rode it was Feb/2015...........!!!!!!!!!!


    God bless me..................on the good old days t didt even cross my mind that one day i could tolarate not ridding bikes................

    Acually im not tolerating it now either i have gone mad.................

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