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  1. #1
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    New question here. Ground Control vs. Captain vs Purgatory

    I have ran specialized tires for years. Tried many different brands and have gone back to specialized for their great grip, durability, and large casings. My riding area is southern Wyoming and Northern Colorado.

    So far my favorite combo is the purg up front & captain in the back. Purg works great for loose over hardpack while the captain rolls fast and has great braking control while going down steep rocky, loose, switchbacks.

    Any opinions on the new ground control 2.3? Looks like it would be a good back tire. Mostly concerned with braking control down loose steep stuff. Also how about the new 2.3 purg? Im currently running the old 2.2 purg. Is it best in the front, back, or both?

    So far im leaning towards, 2.3 purg upfront and gc 2.3 out back.

  2. #2
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    Seems like quite an aggressive setup. Seems like it could work quite well.

    You could try other brand combos, like Mich Wild Rock'r front and Wild Grip'r back, but overall your pick looks very good too.

  3. #3
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    The Ground Control is only OK when in comes to rear "braking" control. It tends to fishtail a little bit. But that was in more wet conditions. Maybe in the dry it is ok.

  4. #4
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    My take on the ground control is that it is pretty much as aggressive as the captain with better rolling. Also far better mud clearance.

    Cannot comment on the new purg, as I am still using my 2.4. The 2.3 is meant to roll better again.

    My take would be purg front and go back. Or butcher front and purg back for a more aggressive combination.

  5. #5
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    I like the ground control better than the captain as a rear tire, I hated the center row of knobs on the captain, having more space between the "paddles" on the ground control seems to grip both pedaling and braking for me

    not sure how this applies to your situation but I'm 250# and running 2.3 purg front and 2.1 gc rear
    Today I will do what others won't, so tomorrow I can do what others can't

  6. #6
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    Well I picked up the new 2.3 purg and mounted it up front tubeless. Was super easy even with a floor pump. I ended up moving my 2.2 purg to the back. Shop had to order the ground control. Should be here next week. When comparing the 2 purgs, they are exactly the same width just eyeballing them. And the nobs have slightly different sipping and some of the center nobs are slightly different.

    Will post results soon for the purg combo.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumpynerd View Post
    Well I picked up the new 2.3 purg and mounted it up front tubeless. Was super easy even with a floor pump. I ended up moving my 2.2 purg to the back. Shop had to order the ground control. Should be here next week. When comparing the 2 purgs, they are exactly the same width just eyeballing them. And the nobs have slightly different sipping and some of the center nobs are slightly different.

    Will post results soon for the purg combo.
    I ended up with the same 2.3/2.2 combo as well; about five rides into sussing them out. So far, I like it. I'm thinking that rotating the front 2.3 to the rear would be pretty economical and keep the rear rolling resistance down a bit. Why buy a low knob tire when you can just use a half worn front?

    I measured the 2.2 as 2mm narrower in both casing and tread, but so what. I've gotten over the volume thing and find that about 55mm feels fine. I really liked the 2.1 GC as it was so nimble and quick, but I have to accept that it's all mountainsides around here and having a tire capable of handling the unexpected 'deviation from plan' is a good idea. I blew a corner a few days ago and the Purg just dug itself a trench up the bank and back to the trail; I was expecting a face plant.

    They spaced out the blocks more on the 2.3. The little hex block grew up into being capable of doing more than keep the casing off the dirt. The edge knobs are longer and so on, but it's all just tweaks. New one's better.

    I guess if I cared more about weight and roll I'd go GC rear but I'm just thinking of running 2.3 Purg F&R and just giving up the search for tire perfection. One tire to stock. Simple. A little more tire than I need rather than just enough or 'better be careful'.

  8. #8
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    Fast Trak FTW!

  9. #9
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    Ground Control vs. Captain vs Purgatory

    Recently put GC 2.3s front and rear on my hardtail. I like everything about them except they feel sketchy on loose over hardpack. They haven't washed out, but I felt more confident on my WTB Wolverine 2.2s. I think the Purgatory front/GC rear might be the magic combo.
    Riding slowly since 1977.

  10. #10
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    Love the Purg on the front, GC not so much but it is a fine rear on loose over hardpack.

  11. #11
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    Well I picked up another 2.3 purg for the back and setup tubeless. Will be testing the full purg 2.3 combo sunday & monday. For all you bike nerds I will include terrain pics, along with a detailed review. Stay tuned.

    It will be another week before I get to test the GC.

  12. #12
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    Ground Control vs. Captain vs Purgatory-dscn0069.jpgGround Control vs. Captain vs Purgatory-dscn0072.jpgGround Control vs. Captain vs Purgatory-dscn0050.jpgGround Control vs. Captain vs Purgatory-dscn0078.jpg

    I tested purg 2.3 front and rear this weekend. Great combo, rolls faster than the old purg on hardpack and works excellent on loose conditions. Braking control is far better than the captain, and I can drift the backend if I want while maintaining control. Not sure I want to test the GC out back, this works so great.

  13. #13
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    When hitting soft berms, the front end stays planted, no washouts, and I hardly had to pressure the front end to maintain traction through the turns. Works great on rocks, roots, and the slightly fatter casing is great for bumbs, rocks, when compared to the old 2.2. Mud shedding is excellent as well.

  14. #14
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    QQ, which exact model of perg did you go with? S-Works? Control? Grid?

  15. #15
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    I tried the 2.3 ground control as rear. Great tire..... EXCEPT the tread does NOT wrap around the casing far enough. If you are an aggressive rider do not use this tire. You can only lean it over so far until it breaks completely loose.

  16. #16
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    That ground control does that to me all the time. So what would be best on a rear in lose rocky area with a little hard pack?

  17. #17
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    Im running 26" 2.3 Purgatory Control front & back. I never had good luck with the SWORKS cus its too thin, never tried the grid. Im running conti revo sealant.

  18. #18
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    28psi front 30 rear. Im about 195 or 200lbs geared up.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr highball View Post
    That ground control does that to me all the time. So what would be best on a rear in lose rocky area with a little hard pack?
    Dr. I would try the full purg combo. During my ride this weekend I encountered lots of loose shale & granite along the trail. Tire worked great, and held up pretty good on loose rocks while braking. After the ride, I didn't have one chunked nob in the rear and the nob edges were still crisp. The purg tires rolled quite fast when I had to get onto a forest service road.

  20. #20
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    Thank you for the info . Will try them out .Who makes these tires also.

  21. #21
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    Specialized.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr highball View Post
    That ground control does that to me all the time. So what would be best on a rear in lose rocky area with a little hard pack?
    Hard to beat a shwably nobby nick for loose over hardpack, yet still a fast tire. Also like the maxxis ardent. The purgatory & captains I prefer for front tires.

  23. #23
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    Whalenerd, I saw a pair of nobby nicks at local shop. $84 bucks for a one tire! Thats outrageous. Never tried schwably however the nobby nick tread pattern looked very similar to the ground control. I wonder how they would hold up to rocks, and if there are issues with chunking cus the nobs seemed quite soft when I fondled them.

  24. #24
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    Stumpynerd, did you weigh your 2.3s before you put them on? Site says 755 and mine weighed 800. Not that it matters as it will be 755 soon enough, but just curious.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by bulerias View Post
    Stumpynerd, did you weigh your 2.3s before you put them on? Site says 755 and mine weighed 800. Not that it matters as it will be 755 soon enough, but just curious.
    Nope I didn't weigh them. I'm running the 26" purgs.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumpynerd View Post
    Whalenerd, I saw a pair of nobby nicks at local shop. $84 bucks for a one tire! Thats outrageous. Never tried schwably however the nobby nick tread pattern looked very similar to the ground control. I wonder how they would hold up to rocks, and if there are issues with chunking cus the nobs seemed quite soft when I fondled them.
    Yeah, NN looks similar to GC, but IMO the NN has way better grip, especially in loose conditions when leaned over.

    You can get them at a decent price from Germany.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumpynerd View Post
    Whalenerd, I saw a pair of nobby nicks at local shop. $84 bucks for a one tire! Thats outrageous. Never tried schwably however the nobby nick tread pattern looked very similar to the ground control. I wonder how they would hold up to rocks, and if there are issues with chunking cus the nobs seemed quite soft when I fondled them.
    Yep they are spendy & do have a similar tread pattern to a couple other tires. However what sets them apart, and why they are one of the fattest rolling tires out there has to do with the casing. I suspect the casing materiel is also reflected in the price, but you can find them in the $60 range if you check around. Durability wise is a mixed bag. I'm heavy, ride hard (destroy tires) and they have been good to me, but other people may claim otherwise. Personally if your rides are < 10 miles I wouldn't worry about how well a tire rolls. Lots of good tires on the market these days bra.

  28. #28
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    I like the "new" Ground Control (it was out early 2012 ) as an all-around tire except for cornering transition on loose-over-hardpack. At least one other person already mentioned that.

    I have switched to a Geax Saguaro and find it superior to the Ground Control overall, for my riding conditions. Comparison info below...

    durability - TNT sidewall is tougher than the GC Control model.
    treadlife - Saguaro wears like iron, GC is average.
    weight - GC is far lighter, almost half pound for the set. I notice this only when I lift the bike to put it on the roof rack or stand.
    rolling resistance - Saguaro is definitely faster.
    hardpack traction - very similar.
    loose over hardpack - Saguaro has more cornering and braking grip.
    wet traction - GC is acceptable, Saguaro is scary. fortunately, I almost never ride in muddy conditions. morning dew on roots will make the Saguaro squirm though.
    price - same, ~$50 a tire.
    other - if you hate the GC take it back to your Spesh dealer and get a different tire. can't do that with a Geax.

  29. #29
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    captains brake like crap, The purgatory is a ok back tire but it allways felt like I could not trust it on the front. I have not tried the ground control yet.

  30. #30
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    I just used a 29er Purgatory 2.3 on the back this past Saturday. I felt it did a great job with traction and braking but slower than I'd like for a SS. I'm running a Nobby Nic 2.35 SS up front and than stayed planted except for one washout on a pine needle cover trail when I hit a hidden root.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post
    captains brake like crap, The purgatory is a ok back tire but it allways felt like I could not trust it on the front. I have not tried the ground control yet.
    Whats your trail conditions like and what do you prefer? Hopefully its not conti, I had a bad luck with those tires. First ride on X-Kings and several nobs were chunked out, very little braking control, and they were flat out scary down switchbacks.

  32. #32
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    I've had the GC 29x2.1 on back for a few months and it worked fine on dry hardpack. However, we took a trip to Levis this weekend and the lack of volume was quite noticeable on my hardtail. The last time I rode Levis I had a Captain 2.2 @ 25psi on the back. The Captain 2.2 is quite voluminous and holds up with lower pressure very well. I had to run the GC @ 30psi. The trails at Levis consist of sand (think beach sand) and roots with the odd rock thrown in here and there. The GC was not up to the task especially in the loose sand pits where it sank and spun and over the root gardens where the back end was bouncing around all over the place. The GC does roll very well where it's smooth though. The rolling resistance is significantly lower than the Captain.

    I wonder if the GC 2.3 would be any improvement. I've seen it mounted up on a bike at the LBS but it doesn't seem to have the volume of the Captain 2.2. I wish they made a Fast Trak with the volume of the Captain 2.2...
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  33. #33
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    The Ground Control 2.3 is undersized. It's smaller than most 2.2s I've used.

  34. #34
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    Ground Control vs. Captain vs Purgatory

    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    The Ground Control 2.3 is undersized. It's smaller than most 2.2s I've used.
    I wouldn't say that. The 2.3 casing measures 55 mm on a 19mm internal width rim. Put it on something like a wtb i23 and it would be spot on its stated size.
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDMC View Post
    I wouldn't say that. The 2.3 casing measures 55 mm on a 19mm internal width rim. Put it on something like a wtb i23 and it would be spot on its stated size.
    Cardinal sin for me to not specify my rim. However, I have the same 19mm rim width. (Mine's a 2012 Crossmax ST.)

    My previous front tire was a 26x2.3 Ground Control (Control). 55mm is what mine was as well which is 2.165". To me that's a small 2.3" but yes, I would be curious what it measures on a wider rim since my skinny XC rim has a stated max tire size of 2.3".

    My current tire is a Geax Saguaro TNT 26x2.2. It measures 56.4mm-- just double checked it-- and that's 2.220".

    Thus the reason for my prior post. The GC 2.3 and 2.1 are both undersized from what I have experienced.

  36. #36
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    I like the 2.3 GC as a rear tire. It has good braking traction and is reasonable on hard over loose. I haven't cut the sidewall yet and am generally happy with it.
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  37. #37
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    Thinking about testing a butcher 2.3 out for next season. Any rider insight on the new butcher 2.3? Also considering a maxis high roller 2.

  38. #38
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    Guys I am reactivating this thread. I plan on testing out the new butcher this season. Any thoughts on the butcher? I got to test the maxis high rollers and wasnt too fond last part of the season. Seemed squirrly in my ridding conditions.

  39. #39
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    I'm using a Purgatory front, Ground Control rear, both 29x2.3, and I like this combo pretty well. The Purgatory is probably overkill for the trails I usually ride, but the extra grip is welcome during the fall/winter season.

    I like the GC a lot. It has good grip in pretty much all conditions, rolls pretty well, isn't too heavy, is durable enough, is easy to set up tubeless, and isn't Schwalbe-expensive.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumpynerd View Post
    Guys I am reactivating this thread. I plan on testing out the new butcher this season. Any thoughts on the butcher? I got to test the maxis high rollers and wasnt too fond last part of the season. Seemed squirrly in my ridding conditions.
    I personally find all S-Works tyres to be rather squirrelly under lower tyre pressures - something about the casing being so light.

    Anyway, the Butcher is a good tyre. If you want more, you will have to tell us what your riding conditions are.

    Specialized Butcher Control mountain bike tyre review - BikeRadar

  41. #41
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    My full conditions are listed, along with pictures of terrain and detailed review. Look under first page of this thread. I found the maxis high rollers to be squirly.

  42. #42
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    Apologies - this is an old thread I must have been subscribed too. I did not bother looking upwards.

  43. #43
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    No problem. ride on!

  44. #44
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    I have used the Ground Controll front and back, works well up to when the soil is loose and deep. I then switch to the Purg. running the new grid casing, I have also used the Butcher which has excellent grip but is a bit heavier. It all depends on how aggressive you want the tires to be. The new Purgatory with the thicker casing looks very good so far. I find the Ground Controll on the back is enough grip for me.

  45. #45
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    Thanks for info. I plan on doing a full review this spring. Butcher front purg back combo. I also plan on testing the butcher on both sides to see if it works better than the purg for my conditions.

  46. #46
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    Just throwing this out there… Colorado rider here. Was riding on a Nevegal up front (2.1). Had too much washout on the loose gravel stuff and I just didn't feel that confident with it. Looked at Specialized and was swayed to the Butcher Control (2.3). Can't say enough great things about this tire as a front. Rolls faster than the Nevegal, lighter, and grips corners like a dream. I think you'll like this tire as a front. Probably a bit much for a rear tire. I know Specialized has used the Butch/Purg combo as a stock setup with their Evo bikes. I'm running a Slant 6 on the rear of my bike… might seem weird as the Butcher is a DH tire and the S6 is a fast rolling XC tire but I like this combo. Fast rolling in the rear with predictable washout and a front tire that goes where you point it. Good stuff.

  47. #47
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    I really like'd the Purg except the casing/sidewalls were not durable at all.

    The new Grid casing sounds awesome. The CG is also a nice tire and with the Grid might just be the perfect rear all purpose tire in the 2.3".

  48. #48
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    Well I picked up a butcher 2.3 control and purg 2.3 control for my stumpy. When eyeballing the two the butcher is slightly narrower than the purg after mounting them to my I9s. Wont be till spring before I can test them, winter still looming in Wyoming

  49. #49
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    I have used all 3 tires and at first I liked the Purgatory on the front more than the GC, but I had a few sudden wash outs with it. I switched to the Butcher on the front and clearly a better front for me. The butcher seems to have softer compound, less bouncy, over rocks.The grid casing looks good at only 40g added weight.

  50. #50
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    I just put a Purg2.3 GRID up front and LOVEiT...
    The Butcher has the most aggressive nobys out of the bunch..my LBS guy runs them front & rear and was talking them up alot..he likes. GRID is a bit heavier but the added sidewal strenght is worth it for me...
    For the back I want the THUNDER BURT cuz it has my name one it..I know lame right..still :-P
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  51. #51
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    My friend who races DH said he has seen alot people run the butchers. Even some that black out the sidewalls that arent sponsored by specialized.

  52. #52
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    MTB rookie here.

    Will be needing to replace my stock Bonti tires this season & have been looking at Geax Saguaro for their do-it-all reputation as well as price. However, I would like to support the guy I purchased my bike from b/c he is family-of-family. Therefore I am considering the GC 29x2.3 & now also the Purgatory.

    The trails I ride are a mix of roots, rocks, hard & loose. I avoid riding in the mud & wet when possible. Unfortunately, I'm not able to ride trails as much as I would like so I'm often putting in as many miles on pavement. How will either the GC or Purg hold up when used for dual purposes?

    Saguaro reviews often make mention of its longevity on all surfaces. Not terribly concerned about rolling resistance on pavement b/c those miles are for a workout, not speed/distance. I am also in the planning stages of a trip to Colorado, so I would err on the side of aggressive rather than fast. Never ran mismatched tires before but perhaps Purg. front & GC rear would work for my purposes.

    How much are you paying for either of these Spec. tires? They both list for $55. Thank you for all the other details.
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  53. #53
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    Ding, ding, ding!!!! We have a winner....

    Spec has come out with a 275 Purg in 2.3 Grid. I've got 2 on the way.

    I got the 2.3 GC in a Grid for my 29er.

  54. #54
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    Greetings, I have only just bought a Ground Control today. Hope to get out tomorrow for a test ride. I got a 2.1 GC for the front and 2.0 fast trak for the rear. I ride a Cannondale Rize 140 and do mostly cross country trail riding. I have measured the tyres and they seem smaller than stated size. Whats peoples opinions on the 2.1.

  55. #55
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    My stock enduro came with the butcher up front and the 2.3 purgatory rear, set up tubeless on the stock roval wheels. Works great. I'm 235lbs and ride rocky, root filled trails. Great grip and traction front and rear. My riding style has been described as a drunken elephant crashing though the woods. Not gentle, not light on my wheels. Would recommend this set up again.

  56. #56
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    How is the butcher on loose over hardpack?

  57. #57
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    Loose over hard pack? I have heard of such stuff, but we got none in New England. We have big and small rocks, logs, dirt, pine needle dirt and leaves. Gravel and dirt roads as well. Oh, smooth granite and chunky granite. Plus rocks. Did I mention rocks. Occasional mud too. Maybe some else could chime in here.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumpynerd View Post
    How is the butcher on loose over hardpack?
    It is a solid front tire for loose over hardpack. I'd say those conditions exist for 95% of my rides in CO. I ran DHFs for the past three seasons, but left the Butcher control upon purchasing my Enduro 29er in September - it's obviously softer than the 60a DHF and maybe softer than the 3c DHF. It wears similarly or maybe quicker than the 3c in my opinion. . .

  59. #59
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    It sounds like none of you like the Captain as a front tire? I would get to agree but wanted to get your thoughts. I have a Purg up front with a captain in the back. My Purg will be due for replacement sometime this year and I have an extra Captain laying around. I didn't care much for it on the front of another bike, but it wasn't tubeless so maybe setting it up tubeless will help. Otherwise, I'll probably go with a Purg again up front.

  60. #60
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    I wouldn't say that. One our fastest local riders runs a Captain front, however there are more agg. front tires. I run a WTB Vigelanti front on one bike and a Purgatory on the other. If you want max. control up front go to the Spec. Butcher. It depends on how extreme your trails are and how much traction you need.

  61. #61
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    I have about 10 rides on the purgatory 26 x 2.3 front and rear. I am getting shocked every day about how well this tire works on the front. I have been riding a butcher for a while and liked it unless things were really loose winter time riding. I keep getting shocked at how much traction in corners the 2.3 has over the 2.2 I ran before. Maybe its the compound but something is working.

  62. #62
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    Ground Control vs. Captain vs Purgatory

    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post
    I have about 10 rides on the purgatory 26 x 2.3 front and rear. I am getting shocked every day about how well this tire works on the front. I have been riding a butcher for a while and liked it unless things were really loose winter time riding. I keep getting shocked at how much traction in corners the 2.3 has over the 2.2 I ran before. Maybe its the compound but something is working.
    Probably the siping on the edge knobs.
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  63. #63
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    For me, it's not Purgatory vs. Ground Control, it's Purgatory(2.3" on the front) AND Ground Control (2.1" on the back). One of my 'go-to' tire combos for SoCal trail riding. The side knobs are at a height that works for me.

    I don't care for tall side knobs as they seem to squirm too much on our loose over hardpack trails. They're great when we have hero dirt, but that isn't often enough to keep such a tire on the rest of the time.

    The Captain is OK as a rear tire, but not great for me. Not enough braking grip when I have to haul the speed down quickly, or in loose and steep terrain.

  64. #64
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    Well I tested the butcher up front last Sunday. Initial thoughts were rolls faster than purg but for some reason it didnt seem as grippy as the purg riding on granite rocks and hard pack. I will post back more results as the season fires up. We just got snowed on again

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumpynerd View Post
    Well I tested the butcher up front last Sunday. Initial thoughts were rolls faster than purg but for some reason it didnt seem as grippy as the purg riding on granite rocks and hard pack. I will post back more results as the season fires up. We just got snowed on again
    That's too bad. What area do you ride? In Colorado, the Butcher is doing wonders for me. So far I've tested it on loose rock, loose over hard pack, and tacky. It just hasn't let up yet. I did get a tip from the guy who helped me pick the tire. He said not to let off of applying force on the front when going into turns. This little tip included with the performance of the Butcher has really improved my speed and confidence into turns. For the times I "forget" or don't apply the front force, the Butcher still hasn't let me down. Hopefully you'll have a better experience the next time around.

  66. #66
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    I ride in Wyoming and northern colorado. I forgot to mention I havent converted to tubeless yet so my thoughts could change on grip for hardpack and granite. I didnt want the stans fluid setting in the tires over winter.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumpynerd View Post
    I ride in Wyoming and northern colorado. I forgot to mention I havent converted to tubeless yet so my thoughts could change on grip for hardpack and granite. I didnt want the stans fluid setting in the tires over winter.
    Ahhh… I am running tubeless at about 29-30 psi. Maybe that's the difference here? Again, riding styles vary so much! I hear you on letting the stand settle over the winter. I rode plenty this winter but with my bike in the garage, I hear little beads rolling around in the tire every now and then. Doh! Not a big deal as I'm sure there's plenty of wet stuff in there but it does mean I'll have to re-stans at some point.

  68. #68
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    Yep that what psi I run for tubeless. I was running 32 psi with tubes when I rode Sunday. Winters are so long here in Wyoming

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumpynerd View Post
    Yep that what psi I run for tubeless. I was running 32 psi with tubes when I rode Sunday. Winters are so long here in Wyoming
    I'm down in Boulder and though the winter has been decently nice to us down here, we've had one hell of a windy winter. Pedaling while going downhill is not ok.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freewillie View Post
    It sounds like none of you like the Captain as a front tire?
    I do. I was running a captain on the front for about 2 years. Then last year I tried nobby nic and ground control on the front. Haven't been real happy with either.

    I'm going back to captain control 2.2 up front with the new ground control grid 2.3 out back. I tend to cut rear tires but not fronts - that why the grid for the rear. And the 2.3 CG feels the same size as the captain 2.2.

  71. #71
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    Well had my first chance to really get after it going down with the purgatory on the front. I put the butcher back on, I felt wonky at higher speed and felt the tire just was not doing it for me. The purgatory was amazing in slower tech stuff and normal trail speeds, but the butcher feels like it has much more grip in the fast corners. For my XC/trail wheel set I think I will run the Purgatory front and ground control rear. For the go fast days, it butcher up front time.

  72. #72
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    Okay guys I got my butcher mounted up tubeless up front. So far I am still not too fond of it. Seems a tad skidish and not as grippy on loose/over hard pack and granite. I dont feel as confident on it as my full purg setup. I need more time however to give a better review, especially for looser conditions. One plus it rolls a tad faster than the purgs on hardpack.

  73. #73
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    I am getting my 650b Purg Controls this week. Not a big fan of the heavy and mud-attracting High Rollers that came with my Santa Cruz Solo (5010). I ride in SE Wyoming and Northern Colorado (with Stumpynerd occasionally) and I am anxious to see the difference. I suspect the difference will be quite noticeable. Will post my thoughts/pics here after I get them.

  74. #74
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    I just picked up a Purg 2.3 for the rear and a Butcher 2.3 for the front this afternoon. I'll try to get them spooned on tomorrow and try them out, but anything's got to be better than the Kenda SB8's my bike came with.

  75. #75
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    Did some more testing this weekend with gnar. Conditions were mostly hardpack with sand/gravel in some areas of the trail. Butcher worked great on hardpack and rolled quite a bit faster than the purg. However the butcher tended to dive and break away in loose conditions. The purg setup I ran last year had a lot more control on looser conditions. Need more trail time before completely ditching this tire.

  76. #76
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    I'm kinda surprised to hear the butcher rolls faster than the Purg.

    I just went from Purg/GC to butcher/Purg and it rolls slower but I dunno which tire to attribute it to. Gonna try butcher/GC I think.

  77. #77
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    Yep, Rode with Stumpynerd on flowy, hard-packed dirt XC trails yesterday. I recently bought the Purg Control 650b for my Solo and was very impressed. Cornering was vastly improved compared to my High Rollers. I was much more confident on sharp turns. They roll fast too. Have not ridden on loose trails or granite/slickrock like conditions much. Will report back after I do.

  78. #78
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    I gave up on the Purg and similar aggressively knobbed tires for Fast Traks front and rear. I ride mostly hardpack that is like concrete in the summer time and I hate knob squirm. Also I am too slow to make use of huge side knobs where they would dig in.
    The leg bone's connected to the Cash Bone!

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgw2jr View Post
    I gave up on the Purg and similar aggressively knobbed tires for Fast Traks front and rear. I ride mostly hardpack that is like concrete in the summer time and I hate knob squirm. Also I am too slow to make use of huge side knobs where they would dig in.
    If you're essentially road biking on dirt (flat, no rocks, no substantial elevation, etc) I would do the same but fast trak's won't fly around here. Even X-King's, which I'd say are a slight step up in knobs, are downright scary.

  80. #80
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    I just purchased an S-Works Ground Control 2.3 to replace a 2.25 Rocket Ron I was running on the front. I love it...seems to have more grip for the turns than the Rocket Ron and I can't tell any difference in the rolling resistance for paved/dirt road sections.

  81. #81
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    As a back tyre how does the purg control compare to the ground control (control) for rolling resistance?

    Is there a noticeable difference between the two?

    I'm running a purg on the back and butcher front ....I can get to drips with the butcher so thinking of sticking the purg back on the front and going for a ground control on the rear.

    Does the ground control roll a lot better than the purg?

    29er flavour if that matters?

    Thanks

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by J273 View Post
    As a back tyre how does the purg control compare to the ground control (control) for rolling resistance?

    Is there a noticeable difference between the two?

    I'm running a purg on the back and butcher front ....I can get to drips with the butcher so thinking of sticking the purg back on the front and going for a ground control on the rear.

    Does the ground control roll a lot better than the purg?

    29er flavour if that matters?

    Thanks
    Yes, the ground control rolls noticeably better than the purg. I was running the purg front/ground control rear combo all winter and liked that combo. But a few weeks ago I tore the sidewall of the ground control (Control casing) so I wonder about their durability.

  83. #83
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    At least for me the Purg bogged unbearably in the rear. I didn't keep it back there very long. The ground control was much better but offered less braking.

  84. #84
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    OK here's my tire saga...

    In the beginning, as in early last season, I bought a Ground Control (Control) 2.3 for up front and a Fast Trak 2.1 for the rear. Right away, I did not care for the Fast Trak...it would tend to spin out on anything other than dry rock or hardpack. Replaced it with a Velociraptor Rear 2.1, which was great until a month ago when it warped severely enough to hit the seat stays, casing failure I suppose, and I am not aware of any event severe enough to have justifiably caused this. It was fine on one ride and bad right at the start of the next...weird. So, I am not inclined to get another VR.

    The GC has been great...no complaints as to on-trail performance. However, it, too has a moderate warp, but it can be attributed to a significant (ie. rim-bending) event. And the last time I tried to mount it tubeless it didn't want to seat properly--in fact, it blew off the rim while trying.

    Having heard great things here about Purgatory as a front tire, I picked up one of those (Control 2.3), and moved the GC to the rear.

    I'm not too happy with the the combo. I find the GC closer to the Fast Trak than the VR in damp traction, and the Purg has slipped-then-caught a few times it situations where I am pretty sure the GC would have just held solid.

    So, I am inclined to move the Purg to the back and try something else up front. What has caught my eye at the moment is a Panaracer Swoop 2.4--but maybe I'll end up with a GC in front again, we'll see.

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by m3rb View Post
    OK here's my tire saga...

    In the beginning, as in early last season, I bought a Ground Control (Control) 2.3 for up front and a Fast Trak 2.1 for the rear. Right away, I did not care for the Fast Trak...it would tend to spin out on anything other than dry rock or hardpack. Replaced it with a Velociraptor Rear 2.1, which was great until a month ago when it warped severely enough to hit the seat stays, casing failure I suppose, and I am not aware of any event severe enough to have justifiably caused this. It was fine on one ride and bad right at the start of the next...weird. So, I am not inclined to get another VR.

    The GC has been great...no complaints as to on-trail performance. However, it, too has a moderate warp, but it can be attributed to a significant (ie. rim-bending) event. And the last time I tried to mount it tubeless it didn't want to seat properly--in fact, it blew off the rim while trying.

    Having heard great things here about Purgatory as a front tire, I picked up one of those (Control 2.3), and moved the GC to the rear.

    I'm not too happy with the the combo. I find the GC closer to the Fast Trak than the VR in damp traction, and the Purg has slipped-then-caught a few times it situations where I am pretty sure the GC would have just held solid.

    So, I am inclined to move the Purg to the back and try something else up front. What has caught my eye at the moment is a Panaracer Swoop 2.4--but maybe I'll end up with a GC in front again, we'll see.
    If you need more cornering bite than the Purgatory, give the Butcher, Hans Dampf, High Roller 2, or Minion DHF a shot.

    A lot of people run Butcher front/Ground Control rear. Personally, I prefer the Minion to the Butcher but it's all preference.

  86. #86
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    Ground Control vs. Captain vs Purgatory

    Quote Originally Posted by Alias530 View Post
    If you need more cornering bite than the Purgatory, give the Butcher, Hans Dampf, High Roller 2, or Minion DHF a shot.

    A lot of people run Butcher front/Ground Control rear. Personally, I prefer the Minion to the Butcher but it's all preference.
    I was going to recommend this setup as that's what I currently run (Butcher up front/Ground in back). The only "slipping" I have encountered is on really loose gravel/dirt in corners. However, it catches and never washes out. Good combo and you can really get slanted with this setup. Quite fun.


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  87. #87
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    My summer and/or XC setup is Captain 2.2 F, Fast Trak R. The combo is very fast and grippy enough for most situations I encounter, but there are conditions where the Captain is unpredictable. Wet roots or off-camber rock surfaces are a good example. There are some technical rockgarden-ish sections on my fav. trail that I can make it through in the wet if I'm going fast enough (but not too fast) but a tad slower and the front is slipping sideways.

    I'm between a Purg 2.3 or Butcher Control as a front for the winter, perhaps with the captain as a rear, what do you guys think? How do the above compare size wise with the Captain?

  88. #88
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    My gut says the Purg runs slightly wider in overall profile than the Butcher, but up front I find that the Butcher is a more decisive, point and shoot tire. I'm really digging my new adventures with the Butcher on the front. I think some would argue with me, but I think it nearly rolls as well, if not faster than the purg.
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  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuch View Post
    My gut says the Purg runs slightly wider in overall profile than the Butcher, but up front I find that the Butcher is a more decisive, point and shoot tire. I'm really digging my new adventures with the Butcher on the front. I think some would argue with me, but I think it nearly rolls as well, if not faster than the purg.
    If I remember right, the control model purg/butcher/GC are exactly the same. Knobs may be different width though.

    I experienced the same thing with the butcher, corners better AND rolls better.

  90. #90
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    If they roll as fast I' ll go with the Butcher. I used to run a Minion 2.35 that I loved for its grip and predictability, just needed more volume. It was the old, narrow carcass that was more like 2.1.

    I thought the revised Purg was supposed to be faster?

  91. #91
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    I rode the nevegal for the last few months and have put a purgatory back on the back again and it feels faster to me. That and I took 2 lbs off my bike with wheels and tires.

  92. #92
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    I have all these tires but got rid of them all for a set of Maxxis Adents 2.4 F / 2.25 R non exo models to save weight.
    The compounds grip and speed are miles ahead of my specialized tires.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trail_Blazer View Post
    I have all these tires but got rid of them all for a set of Maxxis Adents 2.4 F / 2.25 R non exo models to save weight.
    The compounds grip and speed are miles ahead of my specialized tires.
    What are your trail conditions?

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trail_Blazer View Post
    I have all these tires but got rid of them all for a set of Maxxis Adents 2.4 F / 2.25 R non exo models to save weight.
    The compounds grip and speed are miles ahead of my specialized tires.
    Funny, I just moved off of that set up in the EXO version and I am happier on the Specialized stuff. Little differences might matter I expect. I will say that the volume of the 2.4 was nice but that Ardent on the front just didn't blow my mind.
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  95. #95
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    Re: Ground Control vs. Captain vs Purgatory

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuch View Post
    Funny, I just moved off of that set up in the EXO version and I am happier on the Specialized stuff. Little differences might matter I expect. I will say that the volume of the 2.4 was nice but that Ardent on the front just didn't blow my mind.
    The EXO model doesn't directly compare to the specialized tires imho. The 2.25" TR non EXO is the better Ardent imho for most trails that have less than 4 foot drops.

    I also use a 2.25 ardent on the front sometimes and it is really fast and light and cornering is good too even on loose rocks.
    Wet rocks and deep mud are no go though.

    The 2.4 EXO ardent is not so easy to push on a 29er, as the 2.25 is.

    But I use the 2.4 more often on front because I like big drops and like more rubber on landings.

  96. #96
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    I have now done quite a few rides on the Swoop 2.4 front / Purg 2.3 back combo, and find it be the best setup I have tried. Both tubeless. Traction in a variety of conditions, rolling resistance, smoothness all good.

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by justwan naride View Post
    I'm between a Purg 2.3 or Butcher Control as a front for the winter, perhaps with the captain as a rear, what do you guys think? How do the above compare size wise with the Captain?
    I think I have a similar situation. What did you decide to go with? What's your winter like?

    I was thinking of taking off the 2.2 Fast Trak, moving the front 2.3 Ground Control to the back and trying a 2.3 Purgatory or Butcher in the front. Playing in light snow and slick stuff wasn't working so well with the Fast Trak rear.

  98. #98
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    I run a Ground Control rear and a Butcher front, works great. I tried the Purgatory front and not as sticky.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by fruitafrank View Post
    I run a Ground Control rear and a Butcher front, works great. I tried the Purgatory front and not as sticky.
    Yeah, if the Purgatory was available in full soft compound, it would be a good option for slippy conditions, since it has the extra transition knobs, which can be good for wet roots/rocks.

  100. #100
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    Απ: Ground Control vs. Captain vs Purgatory

    Quote Originally Posted by pgm83 View Post
    I think I have a similar situation. What did you decide to go with? What's your winter like?

    I was thinking of taking off the 2.2 Fast Trak, moving the front 2.3 Ground Control to the back and trying a 2.3 Purgatory or Butcher in the front. Playing in light snow and slick stuff wasn't working so well with the Fast Trak rear.
    I haven't settled on winter tyres yet. I've been away from home since mid October but going back soon.

    Winter can be very wet, but the terrain is mostly rocky. Gloopy mud is rare,and when you find some,it's just small patches of trail. Snow can be fiund but on higher altitude so it's totally possible to avoid it.

    We do have a lot of off camber turns though,which combined with the wet rock element can produce sketchy moments.

    That's why I' m thinking so hard about a front tyre. Searching for feedback on the butcher control, I found a guy who used to ran a captain and said that the butcher was actually smaller, so maybe B. front/Cpt. rear is not a good idea after all.
    Even thinking about giving continental black chilly rubber a go (trail king or mountain king).

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