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  1. #1
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    First wheel build: spoke issues.

    Used the online calculator from prowheel builder. And with there preset hope hub infor and the erd from my inferno 25s its calling for 293mm disc side and 293.6 drive side.

    Measured my formula hub and even though the one flange is much larger the the hope I come out with 293 disc and 292.5 drive.

    After trying once I was haveing a problem with some being tight and sime super loose. I am assuming I messed up on the lacing so i tore it all down again and noticed the spokes were the same size left and right. (Made sure not mix them up)

    The spokes measure out to 293. As I said some spokes come through the nipple alot and otheres I cant bury the threads. This to me seems like a me issue. I am just following a youtube video from "bike tube". Seemed easy enough but i may have got my first spoke off. It looked right as per the video but im still new.

    Any thoughts on my screw up. I really want to get this going hut worst case I will drop it off at the lbs

  2. #2
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    A difference of size such as that isn't ideal, but it should still work. I should think that some of that information may be incorrect, be it the ERD, or the hub dimensions. What are you using to measure the hub?

  3. #3
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    The hope measurments were a preset. Although i did verify the flange diameter but not the flange offset. They appear diferent from the formula hub.

    I am using a caliper to measure the formula hub.

  4. #4
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    The sapim calc is calling for 295 both sides. But that is if i have the rim thickness correct
    With the forumla hub input it calls for 295disc and 296 drive.

    Farely consistant difference.

  5. #5
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    Use measurements provided by others at your risk. Measure everything yourself.
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  6. #6
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    When lacing wheels there have been many times when the spokes seemed all wrong and uneven until the whole wheel was laced and everything had settled into place. My experience anyway.

  7. #7
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    I wondered if it would fix it self but the ones that were long , were super long. The spoke came through the nipple and it was still loose.

    This is the video I have been using. Lacing a Rear 32 Spoke Wheel, 3 Cross | How to Build a Bicycle Wheel - YouTube

    My thought is im getting the first spoke on the disc side wrong. Pretty sure the drive side was correct. If that video is correct, it looks hard to mess up
    Last edited by machine4321; 11-07-2012 at 08:40 AM.

  8. #8
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    I would try reversing your first spoke on the disc side from in to out, or out to in (opposite of the way you have it now) and then filling in the rest accordingly. I'm pretty sure I've run into this problem myself and that fixed it.

  9. #9
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    Just out of curiosity, are you lacing the whole wheel before you screw the nipples all the way down? Are you making sure that you are lacing correctly? With 3 cross, the first of the three crosses is not very obvious at all, and occurs underneath the hub flange.

  10. #10
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    The first go I wasnt keeping track of how far the nipples were screwed on. As for the 3x, following the video it seemed pretty straight forward. It also looked like my front wheel.

    Even with both sides done it "looked" right, but i was worried that the last spokes I crossed (video said under under over) they seemed way to long. Spokes were several mm past the nipples and still floppig around.

    I dont recall if the drive side was doing the same. But some of the spokes were getting tight and still showin threads out the bottom of the nipple.

    If I remeber the parrellel spokes were really tight and the cross spokes were loose. Cant be 100% untill I get home to try again.

    Is the video I posted correct? There was a post from 2010 that had the same issue with the vid I posted.
    Building my first wheel. Every other two spokes super loose.

    Thanks again for the help.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by machine4321 View Post
    The first go I wasnt keeping track of how far the nipples were screwed on. As for the 3x, following the video it seemed pretty straight forward. It also looked like my front wheel.

    Even with both sides done it "looked" right, but i was worried that the last spokes I crossed (video said under under over) they seemed way to long. Spokes were several mm past the nipples and still floppig around.

    I dont recall if the drive side was doing the same. But some of the spokes were getting tight and still showin threads out the bottom of the nipple.

    If I remeber the parrellel spokes were really tight and the cross spokes were loose. Cant be 100% untill I get home to try again.

    Is the video I posted correct? There was a post from 2010 that had the same issue with the vid I posted.
    Building my first wheel. Every other two spokes super loose.

    Thanks again for the help.
    Will bet you dropped the first spoke on the second flange to the wrong side. Common mistake.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    Will bet you dropped the first spoke on the second flange to the wrong side. Common mistake.
    My money's on this as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
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  13. #13
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    Cool. I like solutions .

    The video said to follow the spoke that runs parallel to the valve hole. Then take the one to the opposit side.

    Should that e an innie or outtie that I should start with. I thought I followed the 2nd video properly.

    Thanks again.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by machine4321 View Post
    Cool. I like solutions .

    The video said to follow the spoke that runs parallel to the valve hole. Then take the one to the opposit side.

    Should that e an innie or outtie that I should start with. I thought I followed the 2nd video properly.

    Thanks again.
    The holes on each side of the hub are offset. You can see it if you look through the holes on one side. The opposite-flange spoke needs to be on the same side of the first spoke at both the rim and hub. What's likely is that you crossed it.
    The spoke we're talking about should be head out (running on the inside of the flange)... not sure what you mean by "innie or outtie." The reason is that if you do it head in, you will have to push the next set through towards the hub, and the more spokes you have in, the harder it will be due to interference (you'll see what I mean very quickly if you do it that way). Whichever way you want to lace (makes no difference), you should do all the heads out spokes first.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
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  15. #15
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    All back together. But every 2 spokes are past the nipples.

    Goes 2 sticking out and 2 are under(tight to get threads not to show but not crazy). That patter is all the way around.






  16. #16
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    Im dropping it off at the lbs to have it trued as I dont have the tools. Its tightened up a bit but still pretty wobbley.

  17. #17
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    Try this and do it exactly -

    Have one end of the hub facing you.
    Pick a heads-out spoke that radiates to the right in the flange closest to you. That's Spoke 1.
    Sight right across the hub.
    Pick the spoke across and just to the left of Spoke 1 and that also radiates to the right.
    It should enter the rim just one hole to the left of Spoke 1.

    If it doesn't, you screwed up.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by machine4321 View Post
    All back together. But every 2 spokes are past the nipples.

    Goes 2 sticking out and 2 are under(tight to get threads not to show but not crazy). That patter is all the way around.
    shiggy was right.
    it's laced wrong.
    if my post didn't make sense to you, I'll post a photo in a bit (wife wants to go eat).
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
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  19. #19
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    son of a.......

    I followed that dam video to a tee. Started from scratch after work. The drive side goes to gether really well.

    Has anyone looked at the vid I posted? It is in 2 parts, first is drive then non drive. just curious if its me or the video

    Thanks again for all the help. Lbs will only charge 25 bucks to build it but I really want to figure this out. I dont like being defeated.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    shiggy was right.
    it's laced wrong.
    if my post didn't make sense to you, I'll post a photo in a bit (wife wants to go eat).
    I would love a pic. Still learning the lingo so it doesnt always make sence when I read.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T. View Post
    Try this and do it exactly -

    Have one end of the hub facing you.
    Pick a heads-out spoke that radiates to the right in the flange closest to you. That's Spoke 1.
    Sight right across the hub.
    Pick the spoke across and just to the left of Spoke 1 and that also radiates to the right.
    It should enter the rim just one hole to the left of Spoke 1.

    If it doesn't, you screwed up.
    Is this starting from the start or just non drive side ?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by machine4321 View Post
    I would love a pic. Still learning the lingo so it doesnt always make sence when I read.
    Quick and dirty diagram.
    Let's call the red line the key spoke and is in the "bottom" hub flange.

    The blue line (spoke #1 in Mike T.'s explaination) is in the top flange, in the hole just to the right of the "key" and the rim hole just to the right. This is the correct position.

    The purple line (spoke) was dropped to the left (wrong) side of the "key" and crosses the "key" on the way to the correct rim hole, making it "longer".
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  23. #23
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    You can buy Roger Musson's e-book on wheelpro.co.uk. It has step by step instructions and is pretty much fool proof
    I followed the instructions and built up my first set of wheels no problems

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by machine4321 View Post
    Is this starting from the start or just non drive side ?
    Any side. Any place. Just pick a heads-out spoke radiating right. I can see one in your pic.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by machine4321 View Post
    I would love a pic. Still learning the lingo so it doesnt always make sence when I read.
    shiggy's diagram is pretty good. i marked up your photo so you could see it on your actual wheel.
    spoke 2 has to be on the same side of spoke 1 at the rim and hub. looking at your wheel here, it's counterclockwise from spoke 1 at the rim. that means it has to be counterclockwise at the hub, but as you can see, it's not.
    the fix is to move spoke 2 from the hole it's in at the hub to the one that is counterclockwise from spoke 1, as the arrow indicates.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails First wheel build: spoke issues.-lacing-fix.jpg  

    Last edited by meltingfeather; 11-07-2012 at 10:39 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by machine4321 View Post
    Has anyone looked at the vid I posted? It is in 2 parts, first is drive then non drive. just curious if its me or the video
    That dood is a dingbat.
    Notice that he does all the spokes on one side of the hub first. That makes doing the other side about 10x harder. Notice in the non-drive-side video (this one) how hard it is for him to get the spokes in, because he has spokes going both ways on the drive side already. The whole bit around 1:00 where he explains how he has to put the spokes in perfectly right could be avoided if he did the "innies" on both sides of the hub first. Poor form.
    He doesn't even address the issue you have... even though it's a critical step... as you found out. He did not explain why he picked the holes he put the "innies" in and not the others (he could have put them one over from where he did... like you did).
    I'd avoid those vids in the future. You're not the first to be confused by them. I'm sure he meant well and it probably speaks to some people, but the execution is sorely lacking and if you don't understand the issue you ran into (you probably wouldn't have a reason to watch the video if you did), you have a 50/50 shot of ending up with a wheel like yours.
    Last edited by meltingfeather; 11-07-2012 at 10:42 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by machine4321 View Post
    son of a.......

    I followed that dam video to a tee. Started from scratch after work. The drive side goes to gether really well.

    Has anyone looked at the vid I posted? It is in 2 parts, first is drive then non drive. just curious if its me or the video

    Thanks again for all the help. Lbs will only charge 25 bucks to build it but I really want to figure this out. I dont like being defeated.
    Here, lemme help ya. If you had read my site you would have seen, in my links, a mention of Roger Musson's fine wheelbuilding e-book. You should have bought & downloaded it and you wouldn't be having this problem now. Or if you had gone to my other link - Sheldon Brown's freebie - same result. But no matter - look at Roger's wordless video -



    And buy Roger's e-book.
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  28. #28
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    Thanks again guys. Mike I did read your page but it was laye and I was already feelig pretty defeated. I ended up skimming and not seeig a clear diagram for me to follow. I was being lazy and went to bed .

    I did read sheldons all the way through and I feel much more comfortable.

    On a side mote I just tore it down again and to my not so suprise the trailing spoke on the non drive were going the opposite to the trailing on the drive side.

    Im goig to try one more tome using the pics you guys made for me and sheldons site.

    If I can clear one thing up, I was starting my key spoke to the left of the valve hole. Sheldon is saying that I should start to the right. If i have a rim that is drilled for left and right I should start the 2nd hole from the valve hole if it matches the proper flange?

    If I ever meet the guy in the vid im going to poke him in the eye with a spoke

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by machine4321 View Post
    the trailing spoke on the non drive were going the opposite to the trailing on the drive side.
    Ahh that might do it.

    If I can clear one thing up, I was starting my key spoke to the left of the valve hole. Sheldon is saying that I should start to the right. If i have a rim that is drilled for left and right I should start the 2nd hole from the valve hole if it matches the proper flange?
    Choose one source and put your trust in it. Follow it to the letter. The best sources we know of are in the Stickie at the top of this forum. I'd truly suggest Roger Musson's e-book but Sheldon's will work.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by machine4321 View Post
    If I can clear one thing up, I was starting my key spoke to the left of the valve hole. Sheldon is saying that I should start to the right. If i have a rim that is drilled for left and right I should start the 2nd hole from the valve hole if it matches the proper flange?
    It doesn't make a difference which way you start, but it might be easier to follow Sheldon's instructions if you do it the same way. You should start at the second hole from the valve hole if it matches that flange. What you do in that case is, when you put in the second set of spokes (parallel spokes on the opposite flange), fill in the gap between the key spoke and the valve hole... and make sure the spoke is on the correct side of the key spoke at the hub as well. in shiggy's diagram, that would mean that the blue spoke is the key spoke and the red spoke is the first spoke in the second set.
    Sheldon explains it both ways.
    Quote Originally Posted by machine4321 View Post
    If I ever meet the guy in the vid im going to poke him in the eye with a spoke
    lol
    I left a comment on his vid. You're not the first person we've helped that watched those videos and ended up with a whack wheel.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
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  31. #31
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    I saw your comment . It was nicer then what I tried to post. There was an error and it would not left me probably good or I would have come across as one of those youtube haterzzzzz!!

    I will update in a bit, drive side trailing is in

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T. View Post
    Choose one source and put your trust in it. Follow it to the letter...
    Agreed, and the same goes for spoke length calculators. Find what works for you and stick with it. Multiple sources just confuses things rather than clarifying.
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by machine4321 View Post
    I saw your comment . It was nicer then what I tried to post. There was an error and it would not left me probably good or I would have come across as one of those youtube haterzzzzz!!

    I will update in a bit, drive side trailing is in
    I rewatched the video and I think he actually does address the issue... just in a bass ackwards way. When he starts putting in the "innies" he says do it at the point that allows you to put them in (not where you end up in a triangle on the other side), which I guess works out, but I'm not sure it always would, and it means you have to do that stupid, all-one-side-first lacing.
    whatevs... different strokes.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
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  34. #34
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    Better?

    Looks like shiggys diagram and sheldons

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by machine4321 View Post
    Better?

    Looks like shiggys diagram and sheldons
    Looks good so far.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
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  36. #36
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    Well no more spoke issues. They appear to be nice and even.

    You guys rock!! I will even go on my desktop pc to rep
    Last edited by machine4321; 11-08-2012 at 06:25 PM.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by machine4321 View Post
    Well no more spoke issues. They appear to be nice and even.
    Nice goin'
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    Nice goin'
    Awe-sum!!
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  39. #39
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    Had the wheel finished off at the lbs. I got it to about 90% by mu standards but there was a vertical dip that I wasnt comfortable messing with any more.

    LBS said it was the best first build/true and dish they have seen. That made me feel pretty good considering I was ready to throw things last few days. They cleaned up a lot of stuff I couldnt. And they only charged me 10 bucks.

    The hub didnt fix my want for more POE but it is so smooth compaired tonthe junk before. And the nosie isnt as loud as I thought it would be.

    It sure does warn people walking up ahead. Gives them about a 30-50foot warning. Much better then having to switch gears so they hear me.

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