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  1. #1
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    ENVE wheel nipple corrosion.

    Anyone had any problems with UST ENVE wheels regarding nipple corrosion ?

    My wheels are just over 18months old and have never been ridden in water, i live in the driest state on the driest continent on earth (actually a fact) so its not even moisture and rain is not an issue either.

    So approx at the 12-14 month mark i start hearing this rattling noise inside the "nipple chamber" on both wheels and think to myself its only some dirt thats got in there.

    But its taped tubeless so nothing can escape into the wheels or stans escape out. The nipples seal the hole from the inside so no dirt can get in.

    So then during a ride (November) i notice my front wheel is way out of true, when i get home i see that a spoke is loose but undamaged, i untape the wheel to see that all the nipples have a dusty white appearance (corroded), and 3 of them are nearly disintegrated but theres so little left of them i cant even get them off without cutting a perfectly good spoke.

    The rattling noise was shards of alu from the sides of the nipples and obviously the disintegrated one from the loose spoke that is nowhere to be seen. The shards looked to be stuck together in little balls as if they had picked up some of the sticky glue from the Gorilla tape that is sticky side down on the underside of the spoke access hole.

    Has some stans fluid possibly escaped into the "nipple chamber" and done this ?

    Gorilla tape IMO is crap so wont be using it again.

    Back wheel i stripped tonight has also 4 nipples in advanced state of corrosion. Cant do much about it as i dont have replacement Sapim CX ray spokes to replace the ones i would have to cut. I have replacement nipples but cant get a nipple driver to grab a corroded nipple

    So ive rinsed the chamber out on both wheels and will retape them with Stans tape tomorrow.

    Is there any fluid i could put in there to help reduce corrosion that WOULDNT damage the carbon fibre.

    I have no idea if this is an ENVE wheel design problem, nipple issue or what.
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  2. #2
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    I've never heard of this happening on a set of ENVEs but then again they are still a young company. If possible please take a pic of the white corrosion. From the sounds of it might be the aluminum it self corroding.

    With carbon composite layups I've seen where it will start to corrode an aluminum BB or head tube from the old school carbon frames. Wonder if this is the same reaction you are seeing.

    Very curious as I just finished building up a set of ENVEs myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crux View Post
    If possible please take a pic of the white corrosion. From the sounds of it might be the aluminum it self corroding.
    Ive cleaned both wheels so no pics. Its definately is the alu corroding but its what has caused the reaction thats beyond me.... i'd see though it if i rode on a beach or through salt water.

    I have not taped them up yet but will be next to impossible to take a pic of a nipple down inside the "nipple chamber".

    The other strange thing is that theres only 3-4 nipples in each wheel that are badly corroded, the rest have the fluffy white corrosion look but it rinsed off with cold water and they look relitively undamaged whereas the others are completely fu%*ed including the one that let go without any trace.
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  4. #4
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    The white is AL Oxide. The AL is reacting to the dissimilar SS and possibly the carbon.

    There's no reliable way to stop it that I know of, you can slow it down by using some sort of lube or something to create a barrier; but that likely will create other issues.

    I also have a new set of Enve wheels my plan when I bought them is to check the nipples at least every 6-9 months and have them replaced at the first sight of any corrosion.

    You might give Enve a call (assuming you got them built from Enve) and see of they'll help you out with a rebuild under warranty; but I doubt they will as this is probably considered normal wear and tear. Does seem like it happened pretty quickly though.

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    I live in Kamloops BC and the climate is similar what you described. The dust seems to kill Alum nips all of the time. Most bike shops will not build wheels with Alum nips unless specified by the customer and event then they will warn people that the disentigrate over a season or 2.

    I had the nipples on my nomad do the same as you have described over 2 seasons. The rims were DT 500.s

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    I've been dealing with Enve for about 5 years now, built a bunch of their rims, and I've seen this a couple of times. However the only times I've seen this is on bikes that spent a lot of time in coastal areas. I would imagine in your case that the stans has massively accelerated the oxidation process and made a mess of your wheels. Might try something other than stans. I know some of the other formulas are supposed to be less caustic.

    Enve is a pretty stand up company, I'd give them a call and see what they can do for you.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    Anyone had any problems with UST ENVE wheels regarding nipple corrosion ?

    My wheels are just over 18months old and have never been ridden in water, i live in the driest state on the driest continent on earth (actually a fact) so its not even moisture and rain is not an issue either.

    So approx at the 12-14 month mark i start hearing this rattling noise inside the "nipple chamber" on both wheels and think to myself its only some dirt thats got in there.

    But its taped tubeless so nothing can escape into the wheels or stans escape out. The nipples seal the hole from the inside so no dirt can get in.

    So then during a ride (November) i notice my front wheel is way out of true, when i get home i see that a spoke is loose but undamaged, i untape the wheel to see that all the nipples have a dusty white appearance (corroded), and 3 of them are nearly disintegrated but theres so little left of them i cant even get them off without cutting a perfectly good spoke.

    The rattling noise was shards of alu from the sides of the nipples and obviously the disintegrated one from the loose spoke that is nowhere to be seen. The shards looked to be stuck together in little balls as if they had picked up some of the sticky glue from the Gorilla tape that is sticky side down on the underside of the spoke access hole.

    Has some stans fluid possibly escaped into the "nipple chamber" and done this ?

    Gorilla tape IMO is crap so wont be using it again.

    Back wheel i stripped tonight has also 4 nipples in advanced state of corrosion. Cant do much about it as i dont have replacement Sapim CX ray spokes to replace the ones i would have to cut. I have replacement nipples but cant get a nipple driver to grab a corroded nipple

    So ive rinsed the chamber out on both wheels and will retape them with Stans tape tomorrow.

    Is there any fluid i could put in there to help reduce corrosion that WOULDNT damage the carbon fibre.

    I have no idea if this is an ENVE wheel design problem, nipple issue or what.
    Haven't read a single ****ing comment of this thread byt GALVANIC corrosion is something that you might wanna look into. Carbon fiber is a helluva conductor of electricity and you are riding on rubber tires isolating you from earth, and all isolated element build up static electricity by just being isolated, and its no joke e3ither..

    I'm guessing this is the first sign of the galvanic potential of carbon in practical use. You did good man. just get brass nipples from now on, preferably nickel or chromed ones.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by car bone View Post
    Haven't read a single ****ing comment of this thread byt GALVANIC corrosion is something that you might wanna look into. Carbon fiber is a helluva conductor of electricity and you are riding on rubber tires isolating you from earth, and all isolated element build up static electricity by just being isolated, and its no joke e3ither..

    I'm guessing this is the first sign of the galvanic potential of carbon in practical use. You did good man. just get brass nipples from now on, preferably nickel or chromed ones.
    If the wheels were built using a synthetic grease the galvanic corrosion is largely mitigated. If a petro based grease was used it will certainly make it worse.

    Can't use brass nips on Enve wheels, they use a semi-proprietary internal nipple.

  9. #9
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    I didn't know that.
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  10. #10
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    Some interesting points... cheers !

    The wheels were ordered direct from ENVE so what ever lubricants they use to build wheels - if any, is the only stuff put on them. I taped them up with gorilla tape and started riding them with stans added.

    It has to be corrosion from the inside as the nipples are not exposed to the outside air/dust/moisture. Something has gone on inside the "nipple chamber" and the only things i can put it down to is a reaction from Stans fluid, Gorilla glue or now Galvanic corrosion..... though i have never had this happen with any other wheels before AND i build all my own wheel sets so i take good notice of what they are doing as far as nipples, spokes, tension and trueing.

    BTW there was no tell-tale signs that i was losing stans fluid inside the wheel, both wheels had 2 wraps of tightly wrapped gorilla tape on them and apart from sticking to tyres and leaving a mess when removed it had stuck quite well. Even through the tape at the valve hole was stans free.

    I got replacement nipples from my LBS through the Aussie agent, that took 6 weeks and people wonder why we buy everything online.

    Will contact ENVE and see what they think, i actually sent them an email on the 29/11/12 about sourcing new nipples and telling them i had one disentigrate but got no answer. I send a link to this thread too.

    Cheers for the help
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  11. #11
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    It's one of the disappointments of Enve rims, I have an Enve rim that I would like to change to brass nipples . Can any point me in the right direction? I'm almost tempted to buy standard nipples & grind out the slot.

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    Fwiw, I've got a set of 29 er wheels that's almost 5 years old with no corrossion. I've never even tried to run them tubeless though and I also live in the high dessert.

    Pillar makes enves so called proprietary nipples, if anybody does a brass version, its them. Whatever you do, don't drill out the holes.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by customfab View Post
    If the wheels were built using a synthetic grease the galvanic corrosion is largely mitigated. If a petro based grease was used it will certainly make it worse.

    Can't use brass nips on Enve wheels, they use a semi-proprietary internal nipple.
    ENVE nipple holes are laid up as well (not drilled) which means that the nipple is not in contact with the fibers.

    Why would petro grease make it worse?

    Internal nipples are available in brass too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    ENVE nipple holes are laid up as well (not drilled) which means that the nipple is not in contact with the fibers.

    Why would petro grease make it worse?

    Internal nipples are available in brass too.
    While it may not be in contact with the fibers it is in contact with the composite. There isn't anything isolating it from contact, like a brass washer. I don't think think the fact they net mold the spoke holes makes a difference when it comes to galvanic corrosion. Could be wrong though as this is pushing my knowledge.

    Synthetic grease is supposed to be low conductivity. I was told by a composites engineer long ago, if you need to grease carbon structures, use a synthetic grease. I've built 70 Enve wheels with it, and I've never had one with nipple corrosion problems, must be something to it.

    Pillar, who makes the Enve nips does not list that nipple as available in brass. Other internal nipples might be available in brass, but these are a little different. They're 7075 in case anybody was wondering.

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    Quote Originally Posted by customfab View Post
    While it may not be in contact with the fibers it is in contact with the composite. There isn't anything isolating it from contact, like a brass washer. I don't think think the fact they net mold the spoke holes makes a difference when it comes to galvanic corrosion. Could be wrong though as this is pushing my knowledge.
    The resin, which doesn't conduct electricity, isolates the fibers from the nipple. Testament to this are the aluminum:carbon interfaces all over modern bikes. I was just adding to your point that galvanic corrosion is suspect as an explanation.

    Quote Originally Posted by customfab View Post
    Synthetic grease is supposed to be low conductivity. I was told by a composites engineer long ago, if you need to grease carbon structures, use a synthetic grease. I've built 70 Enve wheels with it, and I've never had one with nipple corrosion problems, must be something to it.
    Worth a look anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by customfab View Post
    Pillar, who makes the Enve nips does not list that nipple as available in brass. Other internal nipples might be available in brass, but these are a little different. They're 7075 in case anybody was wondering.
    I think Sapim makes 'em.
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    Thanks for the replies, ive sent ENVE an email and link to this thread. Hopefully they might have a solution to stop this corrosion going any further.

    I dont want to tape them up and start riding them again if the nipples are going to continue to corrode effectively turning the wheels into a time bomb with the nipples disintegrating and spokes popping out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post

    I think Sapim makes 'em.

    They're Pillars, I've ordered them to build other wheels with directly.


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    Quote Originally Posted by car bone View Post
    haven't read a single ****ing comment of this thread byt galvanic corrosion is something that you might wanna look into..
    +one

  19. #19
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    Ive just had a look on the sapim website, they make inverted nipples in brass but not pillars. These would need a special tool where as the pillars just need a long series socket.

    EDIT: Just found a website that sells internal brass and the 3.2mm square tool. Will wait and see what enve says then i might rebuild both wheels with brass internals.
    Last edited by ozzybmx; 01-27-2013 at 11:26 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    Ive just had a look on the sapim website, they make inverted nipples in brass but not pillars. These would need a special tool where as the pillars just need a long series socket.

    EDIT: Just found a website that sells internal brass and the 3.2mm square tool. Will wait and see what enve says then i might rebuild both wheels with brass internals.
    Can you post a link to that website?
    I found the Sapim brass inverteds (Inverted | Sapim),
    but would like to see what you found.

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    Quote Originally Posted by geo025 View Post
    Can you post a link to that website?
    I found the Sapim brass inverteds (Inverted | Sapim),
    but would like to see what you found.
    Here's the site

    $35 for 56 brass nipples and $9 for the 3.2mm tool.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    Here's the site

    $35 for 56 brass nipples and $9 for the 3.2mm tool.
    Thanks

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    I'm not sure of the root cause of failure, but just to throw this out there- Stan's has been known to corrode the inside of certain Shimano road rims, which apparently have little to no anodizing. I believe there's a lengthy thread on forums.roadbikereview.com.

    I wouldn't discount sealant corrosion, as I've seen multiple leaks through gorilla tape.
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    Same problem

    Hi ozzybmx, Just so as you donít feel alone in this issue. Iím in Qld and Iíve experienced this problem a lot. First of all was 3 or 4 years ago when I bought a set of DT carbon wheels.

    I found out one time when I banged the rear into a bank and the back wheel broke a bunch of spokes (bike stopped, I kept going and checked out the track more closely). Back at the LBS they pulled it down, the nipples were corroded and this had weakened the wheel (normally a rough roost wouldnít do that Ė the DT Cs were amazing in the rough and tumble).

    Refitted, special attention to taping etc, rode for a few months and the front broke a spoke. Should have pulled that down back then to, it was corroded. Replaced all nipples now, and then I had 3 more broken spoke incidents on 3 more occasions Ė all from corrosion. The downtime was frustrating. Special attention was given to cleaning and fresh tape each rebuild.

    I had a trip to NZ planned, which meant speed, berms, and berms (did I say that already, well there's so many of them....), drops, bumps and jumps. So I was a little worried breaking another spoke/s a month out or during the trip. I stripped both wheels (darn, had to put fresh rubber on Ė gotta love fresh rubber before a big trip), new spokes and new brass nipples. Rode this on the trip and for a good 9 months without a further issue, just the cracks in the rims were growing too big for me to keep running them and besides, I had another trip to NZ planned, more berms and jumps (did I mention that).

    I bought some Enves, and on inspection the same issue occurred a few months in Ė corrosion. Then I bought a 29er as well, and some more Enves, and I have corrosion in those nipples. And, yesterday I heard a rattle in the back tyre. Your thread is a timely reminder and has solved my rattle issue, bloody corrosion has struck again. Iíll be chasing some brass to shut down this corrosion issue.

    From my DT carbon experience, the Enveís have taken a lot longer to corrode the nipples. (The DT were great wheels, off the charts performance, just complaining about corrosion). I am saying this to indicate that I donít think it is a particular Enve specific issue and actually, they are better than another Carbon wheel experience I have had in terms of what I believe is sealant induced corrosion.

    And about the only solution is to go brass nipples. I firmly believe it is the sealant, not saying it is just Stans either as I did run another brand of sealant as well, it is the cost of running AL nipples. AL is hopeless with corrosion. Itís annoying as you want to keep the rotational weight on the outer edge down as much as possible and running brass nipples just feels a little counterproductive with carbon wheels, but, if it works and keeps the wheels together and keeps them rolling, then that will pay in the long run I guess. Besides carbon wheels isn't necessarily about the weight, it's the overal performance of them that is so impressive.

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    Cheers WilliamK, just got a reply back from ENVE and the Pillar (brand) nipples that they use are not a hard anodized alu so thats the reason for the rapid corrosion as they are soft alu.

    ENVE think its my climate caused it but im with you on the Stans theory coupled with the crap Gorilla tape that shouldnt be used on wheels at all... its dry and hot here with little rain and the corrosion happened on the inside where it was dry apart from the sticky balls of alu shards.

    Seems im on my own with the issue so i'll buy the brass nipples + the tool and rebuild them myself.

    Also i wouldnt worry about the weigh penalty of brass as the 1 wrap of gorilla tape weights more than the 20g extra per wheel running brass (30g) over alu (10g).

    Thanks for sharing
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    Done ! just bought the nipples and tool, hopefully they wont be too long as ive been off this bike because of the wheels since late November.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    Cheers WilliamK, just got a reply back from ENVE and the Pillar (brand) nipples that they use are not a hard anodized alu so thats the reason for the rapid corrosion as they are soft alu.

    ENVE think its my climate caused it but im with you on the Stans theory coupled with the crap Gorilla tape that shouldnt be used on wheels at all... its dry and hot here with little rain and the corrosion happened on the inside where it was dry apart from the sticky balls of alu shards.
    I am struggling to understand why ENVE would use a nipple that has not been hard anodized. Could anyone speculate for me?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    Done ! just bought the nipples and tool, hopefully they wont be too long as ive been off this bike because of the wheels since late November.
    The inside of the rim is shaped specificaly for the pillar nipples. Using something else might give reason to void your warranty. If thats a concern to you, you could have a set of nipples anodized and that shouod cure your corrosion woes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by customfab View Post
    Using something else might give reason to void your warranty. If thats a concern to you, you could have a set of nipples anodized and that shouod cure your corrosion woes.
    Im kind of over a barrel anyway as i wont ride the wheels in the current state. ENVE have stated they are quite aware of the problem in some enviroments with the pillar nipples and said "its likely has something to do with the Stanís as well" and have advised me to rebuild the wheels with "Sapim internal nipples or something similar" so i should be good to go.

    They are also "developing a lightweight brass nipple to address the solution"

    Quoted"" above are exact words from the email.

    The new nipples are on the way Fedex Priority, i'll have the wheels rebuilt in a couple of days after recieving the new parts. I waited 5 weeks to get the Alu nipples ordering here in Oz so its probably the best solution for me to do it myself anyway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adroit Rider View Post
    I am struggling to understand why ENVE would use a nipple that has not been hard anodized. Could anyone speculate for me?
    Because they don't make them and they don't want to have them made.

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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    The resin, which doesn't conduct electricity, isolates the fibers from the nipple. Testament to this are the aluminum:carbon interfaces all over modern bikes. I was just adding to your point that galvanic corrosion is suspect as an explanation.
    As far as I know, and I know quite a lot about composites, it would take a lot of extra work to just get resin in the interface, its most likely as the rest of the composite, 50/50 fibers/resin at the contact area.

    Somehow the mold this right, and they stick some pin or something in there and just lay up the fibers as usual or in some type of special pattern around the holes, maybe a different fiber orientation but I'm guessing you would still have contact between the actual fibers and the nipple when done. I just can't see this happening with the actual fibers isolated from what they put in there when making the hole. Sure it could be done. But I'm kinda sceptical to that since the resin itself is not at all strong/hard/creep resistant (its plastic, epoxy plastic), the strength in the composite comes from the ablity of the resin/matrix/binder or whatever you wanna call it having good adhesion to the fibers and their molecular bond.

    could be wrong though.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    Im kind of over a barrel anyway as i wont ride the wheels in the current state. ENVE have stated they are quite aware of the problem in some enviroments with the pillar nipples and said "its likely has something to do with the Stanís as well" and have advised me to rebuild the wheels with "Sapim internal nipples or something similar" so i should be good to go.

    They are also "developing a lightweight brass nipple to address the solution"

    Quoted"" above are exact words from the email.

    The new nipples are on the way Fedex Priority, i'll have the wheels rebuilt in a couple of days after recieving the new parts. I waited 5 weeks to get the Alu nipples ordering here in Oz so its probably the best solution for me to do it myself anyway.
    If you could find brass nipples you can have one sacrificial alu nipple in there and you only change that one since it will attract all the corrosion just like sacrificial anodes on boats.

    Anodized alu have a coating of alu oxide, thats a ceramic, and its nonconductive, and unless the oxide is removed while assembling, the nipples would be somewhat isolated galvanically, which the goo inside I don't know. Test the resistance of the goo with a multimeter and find out if its a good conductor.

    If you can o0nly find alu nipples I suggest stocking up on them! AND using synthetic grease just as customfab recommended, and lots of it too., preferably some waterproof grease. Marine grease. OR anodizing the nipples yourself or have someone do it properly. Black Type 3 hard coat or something.
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    I have 64 brass internal nipples (only needed 56 but got a few spares) currently in the local Fedex depot to be delivered to me on Monday morning. Not taking a chance on alu again, they are absolute nightmare, i still dont know how im getting a few of them off without cutting spokes... im hoping the remaining few will come out when the tension is off and the "dish" of the wheel is relaxed.

    Will then set them up tubeless with stans rather than gorilla tape.
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    Quote Originally Posted by car bone View Post
    As far as I know, and I know quite a lot about composites, it would take a lot of extra work to just get resin in the interface, its most likely as the rest of the composite, 50/50 fibers/resin at the contact area.

    Somehow the mold this right, and they stick some pin or something in there and just lay up the fibers as usual or in some type of special pattern around the holes, maybe a different fiber orientation but I'm guessing you would still have contact between the actual fibers and the nipple when done. I just can't see this happening with the actual fibers isolated from what they put in there when making the hole. Sure it could be done. But I'm kinda sceptical to that since the resin itself is not at all strong/hard/creep resistant (its plastic, epoxy plastic), the strength in the composite comes from the ablity of the resin/matrix/binder or whatever you wanna call it having good adhesion to the fibers and their molecular bond.

    could be wrong though.
    I'll defer to you if you have direct experience. My understanding is that the structural stuff is covered with cosmetic layers and typically some kind of protective coating.
    I didn't mean to imply that when it's laid up they somehow keep the fibers from the surface.
    In any case, why hasn't my carbon bar destroyed my Thomson stem or my carbon post destroyed the aluminum frame of my FS? There has to be some isolation. It seems to me that it's likely on the carbon rather than aluminum side.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    Cheers WilliamK, just got a reply back from ENVE and the Pillar (brand) nipples that they use are not a hard anodized alu so thats the reason for the rapid corrosion as they are soft alu.

    ENVE think its my climate caused it but im with you on the Stans theory coupled with the crap Gorilla tape that shouldnt be used on wheels at all... its dry and hot here with little rain and the corrosion happened on the inside where it was dry apart from the sticky balls of alu shards.

    Seems im on my own with the issue so i'll buy the brass nipples + the tool and rebuild them myself.

    Also i wouldnt worry about the weigh penalty of brass as the 1 wrap of gorilla tape weights more than the 20g extra per wheel running brass (30g) over alu (10g).

    Thanks for sharing
    so envy is hands off on your problem??? kinda $h!tty considering they are $800+ a rim and they use proprietary nipples. they warrantied them for someone else with the issue

    Quote Originally Posted by 29or6to4 View Post
    My original Edge rims had a problem with the old Pillar nipples they use to use. They were all corroded and falling apart within the rim. So wheelset went back to them and the UST just were made available. I might have got one of the first sets, any way for a small amount extra I could have the hubs built with new UST's and keep my Edges. Sold the Edges to pay for the new Enves. Worked out pretty good. I like not having to use the Stans rubber strip to keep tubeless.
    Enve Rims Anyone? from that thread

    lol, they have obviously figured out a way around it

    LIMITATIONS OF WARRANTY:

    Warranty does not cover parts that have been incorrectly installed, serviced, or otherwise adjusted respective to the ENVE installation manual.
    Warranty does not cover damage sustained to parts used for applications beyond the scope of their intended design (ex. Using All Mountain rims for Downhill).
    ENVE Grey brake pads are provided with ENVE rims and complete wheelsets. Failure to use the ENVE Grey brake pads will void the warranty.
    Warranty does not apply to damage related to a crash, impact, unauthorized alteration, abuse of product, and normal wear and tear. See ENVEís Lifetime Crash Replacement. Normal wear and tear refers to:
    Worn out braking surface
    Worn or damaged brake pads
    Damaged spokes from crashing or poor shifting adjustment
    Nipple corrosion
    Superficial chips and scratches on rim or components
    Warranty does not apply to parts manufactured by other manufacturer (ex. hubs, spokes, nipples). Consult the individual manufactures for issues related to these parts.
    Warranty for ENVE tubing and other molded frame parts such as seat stays, chain stays and head tubes covered under standard two year warranty.

    kinda sucks for the end user when they currently have only one real option for nipples and they obviously do have corrosion issues. would make me feel pretty sick dropping that kind of cash on a product where one of the main components can corrode and it's on you.
    Last edited by qbert2000; 02-02-2013 at 01:57 PM.

  36. #36
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    Until they sort this out I wouldn't consider using ENVE rims

  37. #37
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    $800 rim, the wheels were built by Enve and shipped to me direct... $2700.

    Yeah it sucks a bit that I got no help to rectify the issue apart from Enve saying it happens and they are aware of the problem and I should rebuild them with brass internal nipples.
    But hey, it's a $50 fix I can do myself and I hadn't even looked at the warranty limitations.... I just wanted a solution or help to fix the problem.
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    $800 rim, the wheels were built by Enve and shipped to me direct... $2700.

    Yeah it sucks a bit that I got no help to rectify the issue apart from Enve saying it happens and they are aware of the problem and I should rebuild them with brass internal nipples.
    But hey, it's a $50 fix I can do myself and I hadn't even looked at the warranty limitations.... I just wanted a solution or help to fix the problem.
    what happens to your warranty when you rebuild with a brass nipple then? it is voided? if they know of the issue you'd think at $800 per they'd be working on a solution

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    what happens to your warranty when you rebuild with a brass nipple then? it is voided? if they know of the issue you'd think at $800 per they'd be working on a solution
    The warranty specifically exempts them from nipple corrosion, so I'd say that they have a solution already, just not a very nice one.

    It seems odd that on a $2000+ wheel set the manufacturer is too cheap to pay for anodised or brass nipples. Guess they've been talking to Fox about customer service...

  40. #40
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    Heres the extracts from the email i posted above.

    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    Im kind of over a barrel anyway as i wont ride the wheels in the current state. ENVE have stated they are quite aware of the problem in some enviroments with the pillar nipples and said "its likely has something to do with the Stanís as well" and have advised me to rebuild the wheels with "Sapim internal nipples or something similar" so i should be good to go.

    They are also "developing a lightweight brass nipple to address the solution"

    Quoted"" above are exact words from the email.

    The new nipples are on the way Fedex Priority, i'll have the wheels rebuilt in a couple of days after recieving the new parts. I waited 5 weeks to get the Alu nipples ordering here in Oz so its probably the best solution for me to do it myself anyway.
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    Props to you, you are an incredibly understanding and patient man. I hope the rebuild goes well

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    Maybe ozzybmx's wheel set was exposed to tropical salty air conditions during shipping to Australia? This could explain such rapid corrosion too. Salty film on the nipples never washed away would continue to attract any moisture, and oxidize quickly.

    I've always used alloy nipples, DT brand, building my own wheels for 15 years. One wheelset did fail after 3 or 4 years from nipple corrosion, using Mavic's first UST aluminum rims, the special nipple adapters failed. But I can't recall a DT nipple fail from corrosion. I do frequently wash my bike after most rides, because I don't have a garage and must keep my bike in my house, and when the bike is sitting in the sun I have often seen a little water drip out of the rim at a low spoke hole. For me 3 to 4 years is satisfactory life for an aluminum wheelset, the rims are pretty beat by then. I hope my carbon fiber rims hold up much longer, like cf frames usually do... time will tell.

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    Heres the box.... the proud day it arrived, wheels were perfect and completely sealed. Absolutely no signs of anything either contaminating the box or anything getting inside.

    This is something that has happened since i got them, some reaction with tape, stans or whatever.... its beyond me and ENVE are not exactly clued up on what caused it yet either BUT they have acknowledged its happened before, they have an idea whats causing it, and they have gave me a solution which i cant see any reason why it wont fix the problem.

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    Wow I can't believe this is still a problem with Enve/Edge wheels. I would have hoped they had changed the nipples by now. Time to peak in my wheel and see how they look.
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    Heres the nipples from the rear wheel, its now finished and fitted with brass internal nipples.

    I'll get the front wheel done tomorrow hopefully, it was the one that spoke came loose and the nipple disintigrated.... now its became clear why.

    9 of the nipples on the rear were too corroded and couldnt be undone by the socket. It took a bit of time but the only other alternative is cut the spokes

    Also in the pic is the alu pillar nipple, what the rest of them should look like and the other one is the new brass internal nipples im fitting to the wheels now. Pictured at the bottom was the worst nipple on the rear wheel, looks like it was ready to let go at anytime.



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    Begs a serious question, why don't/didn't Enve put any fibreglass round the rim bed?
    Fifty grams of E Glass, problem never happens.

    Another question, what tool are you using for the new nipples?

  47. #47
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    Click here, scroll down the page to spoke tools, its the 3.2mm square one that i got.

    The nipples came from there too, pretty good as he sent it fedex priority and were here in 5 days for $6 shipping.
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  48. #48
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    Just a look at your pic. The brass nipple does not seem to be the same OD as the pillar. Can you confirm that the brass sets squarely in the molded carbon nipple slots?
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  49. #49
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    car bone feels your pain ozzy. what a bunch of f***ing jokers they are. did they really think this through? they thought this was going to work? when building something; if you spend less than 95% of time thinking about how it should be done, all possible ins and outs, then you're doing it ****ing wrong and thats it. this is proof.
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  50. #50
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    Enve
    Last edited by RiverSurfer; 02-07-2013 at 02:20 PM.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    Heres the nipples from the rear wheel...

    Wow. That is a horror show.

    I know Enve doesn't make the nipples, but this has put a real dent in my attitude toward their gear.

  52. #52
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    I bought a pair of used Enve's "in awesome condition" ha, ha....

    exactly the same issue on front, am yet to look at the rear.

    Seller claimed wheels are a year old which seems about right from above posts.

    I bought a full set of new nipples and then snapped 2 spokes getting them off....
    Not sure if i should just go straight for the brass nips...

    I have a set of crests rims with bladed spokes and alu nipples which are almost 3 yrs old and have never had a spoke spanner on them.

    Enve have not answered my email from 2 weeks ago yet. I will try the direct contact Ozzy pmed me....

    I bought the wheels for 2 main reasons (over other options)
    1 Enve's reputation of bullet proof wheels.
    2 Enve's reputation for awesome customer service.

  53. #53
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    well any thought of purchasing a set of these wheels just went out the window....

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by mad dog26 View Post
    I bought the wheels for 2 main reasons (over other options)
    1 Enve's reputation of bullet proof wheels.
    2 Enve's reputation for awesome customer service.
    I brought in a set of ENVEs here recently and like the way they built up and have been riding them for a little over 2 months. After seeing this thread I wanted to check the nipples. I did not find fluid in the rim which is a plus but they are already showing signs of corrosion. ENVE may not cover nipple corrosion but if that is the case they will soon have significant issues asking nearly $3K for a wheelset.

    For a company taking a small financial hit offering replacement nipples with a brass option it would provide a significant return on the investment. If they deny replacements then the company will be short lived. Will follow up after I speak with them.

  55. #55
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    I have been battling this same issue on albeit different (and much much cheaper) wheelset. Been riding since 1990 and have never had to deal with this before. Very discouraging.
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    I know this is an Enve thread, but has anyone had any issues w/ Reynolds rims/nipples and corrosion?

  57. #57
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    I feel the need to stick up for Enve. I've built ~100 of their wheels and I've owned 3 different sets and have several customers with them. Only one of them has had problems with nipple corrosion. On top of that their customer service is top notch. I've seen them warranty things they shouldn't have, just to keep a customer happy. So even though this thread makes it look like everybody is having this problem my sample size is a little bigger and I'm inclined to say that it is a relatively small number of wheels that are suffering from this.
    Last edited by customfab; 02-07-2013 at 04:21 PM.

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    I hope your are right customfab, as I just bought a set of ENVE AM 29er wheels over other carbon options due to their "known" reliability. Fingers crossed!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    I know this is an Enve thread, but has anyone had any issues w/ Reynolds rims/nipples and corrosion?
    Just built up a set a week ago of Reynolds but used Brass nipples. Even with Alloy nipples I would expect that on the Reynolds would not have the issue as bad as you would see the corrosion (If it started).

    On the Enve the nipples are hidden from view. If you don't check them then they "could" fail while riding. After talking with Enve it sounds like they are aware of and in process of a solution. From the sounds of it Enve cares about their product and customers. Hopefully a solution is on the horizon with it being available to customers seeing corrosion.

  60. #60
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    The decision to use non anodized nipples still baffles me. ENVE employs some of the best engineers to design a rim but then go with a nipple that compromises longevity and rider safety? Where were the engineers when this business decision was made? Classic example of the left hand not talking to the right and a business person making an engineers decision.

    To all the engineers out there - don't back down when an accountant, product manager, or supply chain inserts their misguided opinion on your product.

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    I don't know why a product like Tef-Gel is not used. I use it on boats and have had no problems.
    TEFF GEL TEFGEL Corrosion Eliminator at West Marine

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlennard View Post
    I don't know why a product like Tef-Gel is not used. I use it on boats and have had no problems.
    TEFF GEL TEFGEL Corrosion Eliminator at West Marine
    That stuff sounds cool. Description says it's for nickle based alloys, does it work on aluminum?

  63. #63
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    What size are the nipples that Enve uses? would like to get a wrench to have on hand.

    Would dripping some oil on the nipples keep them from corroding?

  64. #64
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    I'm a member of NSMBA and IMBA Canada

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tree View Post
    What size are the nipples that Enve uses? would like to get a wrench to have on hand.
    3/16". I used Park Tool SW-16.3 to build mine.


    As for corrosion protection, I'd try to get them anodized. It's a real shame that 7075 alloy is used bare.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adroit Rider View Post
    To all the engineers out there - don't back down when an accountant, product manager, or supply chain inserts their misguided opinion on your product.
    That's when you make them sign-off on your design spec/drawings...cite names, company(s), and your objections, and have it locked into the project documentation...from experience in the EPC(L) industry. It's Engineering, Procurement, and Construction...what they don't tell you in the private sector is the "Litigation" part New grads, beware!

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    Quote Originally Posted by customfab View Post
    I feel the need to stick up for Enve. I've built ~100 of their wheels and I've owned 3 different sets and have several customers with them. Only one of them has had problems with nipple corrosion. On top of that their customer service is top notch. I've seen them warranty things they shouldn't have, just to keep a customer happy. So even though this thread makes it look like everybody is having this problem my sample size is a little bigger and I'm inclined to say that it is a relatively small number of wheels that are suffering from this.
    I am with you on this. I have seen Enve warranty some things that no way would I ever think they should have replaced. I have built hundreds of Enve rims and have not seen a single case of nipple corrosion. I do coat the nipples in heavy marine grease on the outside and inside on the threads. I started doing that from the beginning because of the problems I have seen with galvanic corrosion between carbon and aluminum parts.

    I have actually seen many different parts on bikes have corrosion issues, it is not an alloy nipple problem. There are so many dissimilar metals touching each other on bikes that corrosion can be a big problem depending on your environment.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ligero View Post
    I am with you on this. I have seen Enve warranty some things that no way would I ever think they should have replaced. I have built hundreds of Enve rims and have not seen a single case of nipple corrosion. I do coat the nipples in heavy marine grease on the outside and inside on the threads. I started doing that from the beginning because of the problems I have seen with galvanic corrosion between carbon and aluminum parts.

    I have actually seen many different parts on bikes have corrosion issues, it is not an alloy nipple problem. There are so many dissimilar metals touching each other on bikes that corrosion can be a big problem depending on your environment.

    Well Ligero. I hear what your saying about YOU building Enve wheels without nipple corrosion. But you obviously know something Enve doesn't. Because the wheels I bought from Enve and they built does not have a lube on them and there in lies the problem. WHY NOT?

    I brought this issue to people's attention awhile ago with my Edges and they were very quick to rebuild at no charge. Enve rocks but why has a simple solution like lubing the nipples at build time not been adopted?

    Food for thought.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 29or6to4 View Post
    Well Ligero. I hear what your saying about YOU building Enve wheels without nipple corrosion. But you obviously know something Enve doesn't. Because the wheels I bought from Enve and they built does not have a lube on them and there in lies the problem. WHY NOT?

    I brought this issue to people's attention awhile ago with my Edges and they were very quick to rebuild at no charge. Enve rocks but why has a simple solution like lubing the nipples at build time not been adopted?

    Food for thought.
    Not really a good reason but time has a lot to do with it. When you have a huge backlog of orders and then you have to factor in another two steps (greasing and the cleanup after the build) to the build those steps may get skipped because of lack of time.

    Not saying that is the reason or even a good excuse but something to consider.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ligero View Post
    Not really a good reason but time has a lot to do with it. When you have a huge backlog of orders and then you have to factor in another two steps (greasing and the cleanup after the build) to the build those steps may get skipped because of lack of time.

    Not saying that is the reason or even a good excuse but something to consider.

    Defiantly something to consider. But they are losing quite a profit margin when you take in the time to warranty a wheel set. Tear down,new spokes, new bad nipples, build and ship...with a beautiful wheel box.
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  71. #71
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    ENVE wheel nipple corrosion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ligero View Post
    Not really a good reason but time has a lot to do with it. When you have a huge backlog of orders and then you have to factor in another two steps (greasing and the cleanup after the build) to the build those steps may get skipped because of lack of time.

    Not saying that is the reason or even a good excuse but something to consider.
    I wouldn't blame the builder as I bet they assumed an anodized nipple. The blame lies solely on the guy who put the nipples on the work bench.

    Eliminate the root cause of the problem.

  72. #72
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    A short update from my issue. I cant say too much but im being looked after very well by ENVE on this issue now and can 100% say my faith in their Customer Service Dept is restored and they have surpassed what level of duty/care i would have even expected.
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  73. #73
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    Hey Ozzy, sorry about those issues you are having. That stinks, but at least they are taking care of you. I do have a question, why not ti nipples? Is this not an option? I am also looking into Reynolds wheels with AL nipples from I9. I will ask if they have seen these issues as well.

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    Yo Maz, the non-anodized nipple issue is a first.... an soft alloy internal nipple in a tubeless wheel, sealed from the inside apart from a possible leakage of Stans through gorilla tape in a dry and dusty enviroment.... who would have guessed the reaction.

    I was 100% alright about fixing the issue myself but now ENVE have got on the case and its all good.
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  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    Yo Maz, the non-anodized nipple issue is a first.... an soft alloy internal nipple in a tubeless wheel, sealed from the inside apart from a possible leakage of Stans through gorilla tape in a dry and dusty enviroment.... who would have guessed the reaction.

    I was 100% alright about fixing the issue myself but now ENVE have got on the case and its all good.
    That's great to hear.

  76. #76
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    ENVE wheel nipple corrosion.

    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    possible leakage of Stans through gorilla tape
    Gorilla tape seems to me to have a bunch of holes in the backing layer that are only covered by the adhesive...
    Last edited by meltingfeather; 02-14-2013 at 07:52 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
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    I'll never use it again. 3M tensalized packing tape is the go.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    I'll never use it again. 3M tensalized packing tape is the go.
    Which variety, exactly? And where do you buy it? Seems hard to find small quantities of stuff like that.

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    ENVE wheel nipple corrosion.

    Quote Originally Posted by spsoon View Post
    Which variety, exactly? And where do you buy it? Seems hard to find small quantities of stuff like that.
    Google 3M 8898
    I was never able to find less than 10 60m rolls, and its not all that much cheaper than Stan's tape, even when bought in quantity, and it is thinner than Stan's tape.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
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    Thanks. Guess it's not worth the hassle if it's not much cheaper.

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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    Google 3M 8898
    I was never able to find less than 10 60m rolls, and its not all that much cheaper than Stan's tape, even when bought in quantity, and it is thinner than Stan's tape.
    Here you go: Welcome to R.S.Hughes

    I've taped and re-taped 4 sets of wheels for almost 3 years one one roll. Definitely cheaper than stans. As a bonus, it comes in two colors

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    ENVE wheel nipple corrosion.

    Quote Originally Posted by compengr View Post
    Here you go: Welcome to R.S.Hughes

    I've taped and re-taped 4 sets of wheels for almost 3 years one one roll. Definitely cheaper than stans. As a bonus, it comes in two colors
    Killer!! Thanks!
    My only question is why do you retape your wheels every year?
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    Killer!! Thanks!
    My only question is why do you retape your wheels every year?
    Broken or damages spokes and rim changes for the most part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    Killer!! Thanks!
    My only question is why do you retape your wheels every year?
    I had a 72mm roll and a 24mm roll bought and paid for from RS Hughes, they emailed me 2 days later and told me the shipping to aus was $120 for 2 rolls of tape via FedEx !

    For anyone my side of the pond go to element14 for it but there is only a couple of sizes.
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    Thanks for all this awesome discussion and info. I'm considering some new 9000 C-24 wheels for my road bike and researched my way here. Where does Enves or any typical composite material rate on anodic index scale compared to brass and aluminum?

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    I mark a door by using a vernier caliper for accurate distance and put small pieces of tape there. then I just line up the tape I want at a certain width with the small ones I already taped to the door. And then I just cut it off at the corner. Whats left on the door is the correct width tape.

    Edit: sorry I was supposed to quote ozzy but somehow I was to incompentent to actually pull it off.
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    After reading Ozzyís account and then hearing a little rattle in my rear wheel, I decided to have a look inside my Enves.

    Now the front wheel was re-strung 3 months ago after a big off and the rear has been on for 12 months. I stripped down both wheels and found corrosion as suspected. ENVE wheel nipple corrosion.-al-nipples-2.jpg

    So I replaced all of the nipples with brass nipples this time, hopefully I will get better wheel life out of them. Some of the nipples were so corroded that it was difficult to get them out or to get the spoke out. 8 spokes were damaged due to the nipple corrosion. I replaced a 9th spoke because I must have chomped a branch or something sometime.

    Some nipples were destroyed, here are some with a little pitting ENVE wheel nipple corrosion.-al-nipples.jpg

    I am showing this for the information of people in dry humid climates, watch your nipples on carbon wheels. As I have said above, I have had the same problem with DT Swiss carbon wheels as well. Iím not here to bash any one manufacturer, it is the materials that we are working with here.

    Kudos to Enve if they work to resolve this, as the problem is only prevalent in particular climates.

    Thanks Ozzy for your story, it helped encourage me to check something I should have checked earlier.

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    ENVE wheel nipple corrosion.

    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamK View Post
    I am showing this for the information of people in dry humid climates, watch your nipples on carbon wheels.
    What's a dry humid climate?
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    What's a dry humid climate?
    Georgia, in a drought. Or damn near most of the southeast in the summer.

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    Good point meltingfeather, seems like a conflicted statement indeed.

    Come on down to Australia and we'll show you some great tracks to ride. Dusty, hot and dry. Yet, very humid, you'll be sweating like you have never done before. It will melt your feathers.
    It is the sweating that eats em, in my opinion. It rains, and it is wet and cool yes, but the electrolysis isn't as bad with out the higher temps that we can get. Then, after the rain, moisture is present and the heat returns to make things sweat some more, because they didn't sweat enough before hand. It's the heat combined with humidity we get here. Saps the life out of you on long climbs. Well, that's what a sumize. Cheers

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    "So I replaced all of the nipples with brass nipples this time"

    What kind/brand brass nipples did you use?

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    Darwin here in Oz.... 35degC hot as fu#k and 95% humidity !

    Not a pleasant place to be nevermind ride a bike, im breaking out in a sweat that isnt mine even thinking about it..... soaked to the skin 24/7.

    In South Oz where i am its up to 45deg and really dry but i dont ride in that, 32deg is my limit and my bikes live in an aircon'd room in my house
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    ENVE wheel nipple corrosion.

    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post

    In South Oz where i am its up to 45deg and really dry but i dont ride in that, 32deg is my limit and my bikes live in an aircon'd room in my house
    I wonder if condensation occurs when going from the AC room to outside? I know I have seen a sheen of condensation on my bike but can't remember when, or how drastic the temp change was.


    I think of an aluminum can coming from the fridge on hot day and all the moisture that emits.

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    Its a dry 22deg. Besides the nipples are completely sealed inside the wheel, they are not subjected to the outside.

    The nipples are sealed inside the rim with gorilla tape on the other side.

    Im just ruling out a constant wet atmosphere for the issue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    Its a dry 22deg. Besides the nipples are completely sealed inside the wheel, they are not subjected to the outside.

    The nipples are sealed inside the rim with gorilla tape on the other side.

    Im just ruling out a constant wet atmosphere for the issue.


    The moisture could be introduced with the air that you inflate your tires with. Add the known corrosive properties of Stan's and the issue is compounded. A "dry" air source might be prudent to help preserve the stock ENVE nipples. Just a thought.

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    Why what a beautiful insight AZ

    The real base issue is the non-ano soft alu nipples, the new brass are just as light.... cant say much more but ENVE have gone beyond their expectations.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    The real base issue is the non-ano soft alu nipples, the new brass are just as light.... cant say much more but ENVE have gone beyond their expectations.
    Agreed, since condensation would be distilled water, or pH neutral, and thus non-conductive...

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    Its a dry 22deg. Besides the nipples are completely sealed inside the wheel, they are not subjected to the outside.

    The nipples are sealed inside the rim with gorilla tape on the other side.

    Im just ruling out a constant wet atmosphere for the issue.
    The Enve spokes are sealed somehow? That is not the case with any other wheel I'm aware of.

    It does seem you had some bad nipples or moist shipping or storage conditions before you got the wheels. Only a few others have reported this problem. Good to hear Enve is taking care of you, finally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adroit Rider View Post
    I wonder if condensation occurs when going from the AC room to outside? I know I have seen a sheen of condensation on my bike but can't remember when, or how drastic the temp change was.


    I think of an aluminum can coming from the fridge on hot day and all the moisture that emits.
    Condensation occurs when going from warm to cold. The can coming from the fridge generates condensation when the warm air contacts the cold can and the moisture condenses out of the air; the can "emits" nothing. So it would be going from his ride into his house that might generate moisture on the bike and parts.

    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    Its a dry 22deg. Besides the nipples are completely sealed inside the wheel, they are not subjected to the outside.

    The nipples are sealed inside the rim with gorilla tape on the other side.

    Im just ruling out a constant wet atmosphere for the issue.
    The inside is - theoretically - sealed from the inside by your tape. However, I had to pull boogers out of the rim cavity of mine a few months ago. Guess the gorilla tape let some sealant through into the cavity where the nipples are mounted. I'm a bit nervous and figure I'm going to have to inspect mine pretty soon. Since I re-taped it, no rattling/boogers in there, though.

    Where the spokes go into the rim, however, isn't water or air tight as far as I can tell. Making that opening sealed would require a specific size and shape of spoke, and would make building the wheel pretty time consuming to set the spoke and then ensure it is, in fact, sealed. So I have to disagree that the nipples are completely sealed and would say they are completely open to the environment and only sealed from the sealant... hopefully.

    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    The moisture could be introduced with the air that you inflate your tires with. Add the known corrosive properties of Stan's and the issue is compounded. A "dry" air source might be prudent to help preserve the stock ENVE nipples. Just a thought.
    So now we're back to nitrogen for inflating our bike tires? Ugh! lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by skiahh View Post
    Condensation occurs when going from warm to cold. The can coming from the fridge generates condensation when the warm air contacts the cold can and the moisture condenses out of the air; the can "emits" nothing. So it would be going from his ride into his house that might generate moisture on the bike and parts.
    Other way around. Cold (relatively) bike into a warm, humid environment will generate condensation on the bike.
    You are right about the moisture condensing on the cold can. Your bike is not going to be cold when coming inside from outside and the air indoors is typically dried by air conditioning.
    Quote Originally Posted by skiahh View Post
    Where the spokes go into the rim, however, isn't water or air tight as far as I can tell.
    I agree. Grease will help somewhat but isn't going to last forever.

    Quote Originally Posted by skiahh View Post
    So now we're back to nitrogen for inflating our bike tires? Ugh! lol
    lol
    I don't think the moisture that enters the tires with the inflation air is significant when compared to the sealant sloshing around in the tire, which contains a signficant quantity of water.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
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