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ENVE wheel nipple corrosion.

70K views 294 replies 77 participants last post by  eduluke 
#1 ·
Anyone had any problems with UST ENVE wheels regarding nipple corrosion ?

My wheels are just over 18months old and have never been ridden in water, i live in the driest state on the driest continent on earth :p (actually a fact) so its not even moisture and rain is not an issue either.

So approx at the 12-14 month mark i start hearing this rattling noise inside the "nipple chamber" on both wheels and think to myself its only some dirt thats got in there.

But its taped tubeless so nothing can escape into the wheels or stans escape out. The nipples seal the hole from the inside so no dirt can get in.

So then during a ride (November) i notice my front wheel is way out of true, when i get home i see that a spoke is loose but undamaged, i untape the wheel to see that all the nipples have a dusty white appearance (corroded), and 3 of them are nearly disintegrated but theres so little left of them i cant even get them off without cutting a perfectly good spoke.

The rattling noise was shards of alu from the sides of the nipples and obviously the disintegrated one from the loose spoke that is nowhere to be seen. The shards looked to be stuck together in little balls as if they had picked up some of the sticky glue from the Gorilla tape that is sticky side down on the underside of the spoke access hole.

Has some stans fluid possibly escaped into the "nipple chamber" and done this ?

Gorilla tape IMO is crap so wont be using it again.

Back wheel i stripped tonight has also 4 nipples in advanced state of corrosion. Cant do much about it as i dont have replacement Sapim CX ray spokes to replace the ones i would have to cut. I have replacement nipples but cant get a nipple driver to grab a corroded nipple :confused:

So ive rinsed the chamber out on both wheels and will retape them with Stans tape tomorrow.

Is there any fluid i could put in there to help reduce corrosion that WOULDNT damage the carbon fibre.

I have no idea if this is an ENVE wheel design problem, nipple issue or what.
 

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#96 ·
Why what a beautiful insight AZ :D

The real base issue is the non-ano soft alu nipples, the new brass are just as light.... cant say much more but ENVE have gone beyond their expectations.
 
#102 ·
The face where the nipple touches the rim was the only part not corroded, its also got up to 120kgf holding it in position.

When I inflated my new setup the pressure of the air on the new tubeless tape pushes it down and the air hissed out through the valve stem so if theres antwhere moisture is getting in it will be the valve stem even with the ' O' ring in place.
 
#111 ·
Could the corrosion on nipple faces be ground off against rim to bare metal when you unwound the nipples?

But the valve stem hissing is a strong argument for nipple sealing actually happening on Enve rims (I haven't run mine tubeless, never noticed the hiss).
 
#106 ·
Fuc%ed corrosion, you have just bought 2-3K worth of wheels, any corrosion is not good .... but i can now say, you get what you pay for. ENVE have acknowledged the issue and are dealing with it 100%, they have done really well by me and have sorted my issue.

They are a relitively new company with arguably the best carbon wheels on the market, they have encountered a stumbling block in dry climate/stans/gorilla/galvanic corrosion, no one could have predicted it but they are working through it very professionally.
 
#113 ·
I live inland desert conditions. Wonder if I should do anything with my wheels, even though they've been running for years. I took a look inside and I don't see anything out of the ordinary.

I just figured Enve knew what they were doing and that corrosion shouldn't be a prob. I have first gen rims. If I saw that, I'd be pretty upset too. I thought corrosion was something that coastal and northern climate (salted roads) and maybe heavy sweaters would be more of a problem for. You saying you live in a dry desert like climate and using only water for washing. Time to look up galvanic corrosion to see if it needs some sort of catalyst, like an electrolyte (salt).
 
#116 ·
Two loose spokes led to discovering significant corrosion. ENVE has their own brass nipples in stock. Unfortunately, my LBS broke many spokes during disassembly and the wheels were built by them, so I'm out of a bike to ride for a couple of weeks, and cost Aerolite spokes plus new nipples plus the cost of rebuild. My first gen ENVEs were fine, but I used a split tube or tubes. But....I had to pay to respoke my SS wheels with Alpine IIIs, so there yah go.
 
#117 ·
Wow, talk about timing..... I was wondering if there was any corrosion issues between aluminium nips/carbon wheels and was gonna search this today and just came across this!

I am planning on putting a set of carbon rims using Industry 9 hubs/spokes that I have but am now a bit concerned with the aluminium spokes having issues - I suppose as long as the anodizing on the spoke is intact I shouldnt have an issue......
 
#133 ·
Most anodizing is clear anodizing. Almost all alu parts gets anodized, you just dont see it.

As for the carbon rims and nipples I'd say it would take on the order of like 5 years for a chromed/nickeled brass nipple to get so corroded it fails, its not really a noble metal and it corrodes too, but much much slower especially if used with some synthetic grease.

The way I see it is that the carbon rim itself is such a good conductor and you have goo in there that acts as an electrolyte and not only that, it gets worse actually; :) if the goo is not at ph7 or close too it this corrosive action will definitely be sped up, just dunk some alu foil in the sink, some other piece of metal and then some lye/water solution and see what happens. Actually don't do that.
But its gets worse still, since the liquid is moving all the time all the newly formed corrosion is washed away immediately to expose new fresh metal to corrode.

Also i have a feeling the wheel is acting as a Homopolar generator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Where the rotor is is the wheel and the applied magnetic field is the earths own magnetic field at like 0.5 gauss, and the wheel builds up a charge of some sort (since its isloated) also speeding the corrosion up.

A homopolar generator is a DC electrical generator comprising an electrically conductive disc or cylinder rotating in a plane perpendicular to a uniform static magnetic field. A potential difference is created between the center of the disc and the rim (or ends of the cylinder), the electrical polarity depending on the direction of rotation and the orientation of the field. It is also known as a unipolar generator, acyclic generator, disk dynamo, or Faraday disc. The voltage is typically low, on the order of a few volts in the case of small demonstration models, but large research generators can produce hundreds of volts, and some systems have multiple generators in series to produce an even larger voltage.[1] They are unusual in that they can source tremendous electric current, some more than a million amperes, because the homopolar generator can be made to have very low internal resistance.
Machine Black-and-white Circle Steel Still life photography


Yeah, well I don't know how much this contributes, if it contributes at all, but I have a feeling we are seeing a bit of this effect too, possibly quite a lot.

And we live here, on this spinning magnet.

Yellow Colorfulness Line Orange Art
 
#135 · (Edited)
The way I see it is that the carbon rim itself is such a good conductor and you have goo in there that acts as an electrolyte and not only that, it gets worse actually; :) if the goo is not at ph7 or close too it this corrosive action will definitely be sped up, just dunk some alu foil in the sink, some other piece of metal and then some lye/water solution and see what happens. Actually don't do that.
But its gets worse still, since the liquid is moving all the time all the newly formed corrosion is washed away immediately to expose new fresh metal to corrode.
There's a point at which common sense must factor in.
No latex-based "goo" is at pH 7 or it would be pretty useless.
You must not be aware that the liquid in a bike wheel is not in direct contact with the nipples such that it washes anything... right?

Also i have a feeling the wheel is acting as a Homopolar generator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This is a very interesting thought, though it would take some convincing for me to believe that the quantities involved are even remotely relevant. One of the downsides of homopolar motors/generators is the HUGE discrepancy between current and work, though corrosion doesn't take much current.
Still a good thought... the same principle/forces involved as in a railgun, only in reverse.

:thumbsup:
 
#142 ·
Well, eventual fatigue failure is guaranteed on Aluminum alloy spoke. On steel, it can be avoided; same spokes can be reused over many wheels, if certain use conditions are met. There are no conditions to meet with an Aluminum spoke, except never riding the wheel.

And I also think (not sure though, a material scientist is welcome to shed some light here) that fatigue crack propagation, once initiated from a stress riser, is also faster in Aluminum alloys than in a good steel spoke. And it's easier to mechanically create a stress riser in Aluminum than it is in steel (like when chain is overshifted into spokes).
 
#143 ·
And I also think (not sure though, a material scientist is welcome to shed some light here) that fatigue crack propagation, once initiated from a stress riser, is also faster in Aluminum alloys than in a good steel spoke. And it's easier to mechanically create a stress riser in Aluminum than it is in steel (like when chain is overshifted into spokes).
From a materials science standpoint you are correct on both counts.
 
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