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ENVE wheel nipple corrosion.

70K views 294 replies 77 participants last post by  eduluke 
#1 ·
Anyone had any problems with UST ENVE wheels regarding nipple corrosion ?

My wheels are just over 18months old and have never been ridden in water, i live in the driest state on the driest continent on earth :p (actually a fact) so its not even moisture and rain is not an issue either.

So approx at the 12-14 month mark i start hearing this rattling noise inside the "nipple chamber" on both wheels and think to myself its only some dirt thats got in there.

But its taped tubeless so nothing can escape into the wheels or stans escape out. The nipples seal the hole from the inside so no dirt can get in.

So then during a ride (November) i notice my front wheel is way out of true, when i get home i see that a spoke is loose but undamaged, i untape the wheel to see that all the nipples have a dusty white appearance (corroded), and 3 of them are nearly disintegrated but theres so little left of them i cant even get them off without cutting a perfectly good spoke.

The rattling noise was shards of alu from the sides of the nipples and obviously the disintegrated one from the loose spoke that is nowhere to be seen. The shards looked to be stuck together in little balls as if they had picked up some of the sticky glue from the Gorilla tape that is sticky side down on the underside of the spoke access hole.

Has some stans fluid possibly escaped into the "nipple chamber" and done this ?

Gorilla tape IMO is crap so wont be using it again.

Back wheel i stripped tonight has also 4 nipples in advanced state of corrosion. Cant do much about it as i dont have replacement Sapim CX ray spokes to replace the ones i would have to cut. I have replacement nipples but cant get a nipple driver to grab a corroded nipple :confused:

So ive rinsed the chamber out on both wheels and will retape them with Stans tape tomorrow.

Is there any fluid i could put in there to help reduce corrosion that WOULDNT damage the carbon fibre.

I have no idea if this is an ENVE wheel design problem, nipple issue or what.
 

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#2 ·
I've never heard of this happening on a set of ENVEs but then again they are still a young company. If possible please take a pic of the white corrosion. From the sounds of it might be the aluminum it self corroding.

With carbon composite layups I've seen where it will start to corrode an aluminum BB or head tube from the old school carbon frames. Wonder if this is the same reaction you are seeing.

Very curious as I just finished building up a set of ENVEs myself.
 
#3 ·
If possible please take a pic of the white corrosion. From the sounds of it might be the aluminum it self corroding.
Ive cleaned both wheels so no pics. Its definately is the alu corroding but its what has caused the reaction thats beyond me.... i'd see though it if i rode on a beach or through salt water.

I have not taped them up yet but will be next to impossible to take a pic of a nipple down inside the "nipple chamber".

The other strange thing is that theres only 3-4 nipples in each wheel that are badly corroded, the rest have the fluffy white corrosion look but it rinsed off with cold water and they look relitively undamaged whereas the others are completely fu%*ed including the one that let go without any trace.
 
#4 ·
The white is AL Oxide. The AL is reacting to the dissimilar SS and possibly the carbon.

There's no reliable way to stop it that I know of, you can slow it down by using some sort of lube or something to create a barrier; but that likely will create other issues.

I also have a new set of Enve wheels my plan when I bought them is to check the nipples at least every 6-9 months and have them replaced at the first sight of any corrosion.

You might give Enve a call (assuming you got them built from Enve) and see of they'll help you out with a rebuild under warranty; but I doubt they will as this is probably considered normal wear and tear. Does seem like it happened pretty quickly though.
 
#5 ·
I live in Kamloops BC and the climate is similar what you described. The dust seems to kill Alum nips all of the time. Most bike shops will not build wheels with Alum nips unless specified by the customer and event then they will warn people that the disentigrate over a season or 2.

I had the nipples on my nomad do the same as you have described over 2 seasons. The rims were DT 500.s
 
#6 ·
I've been dealing with Enve for about 5 years now, built a bunch of their rims, and I've seen this a couple of times. However the only times I've seen this is on bikes that spent a lot of time in coastal areas. I would imagine in your case that the stans has massively accelerated the oxidation process and made a mess of your wheels. Might try something other than stans. I know some of the other formulas are supposed to be less caustic.

Enve is a pretty stand up company, I'd give them a call and see what they can do for you.
 
#7 ·
Anyone had any problems with UST ENVE wheels regarding nipple corrosion ?

My wheels are just over 18months old and have never been ridden in water, i live in the driest state on the driest continent on earth :p (actually a fact) so its not even moisture and rain is not an issue either.

So approx at the 12-14 month mark i start hearing this rattling noise inside the "nipple chamber" on both wheels and think to myself its only some dirt thats got in there.

But its taped tubeless so nothing can escape into the wheels or stans escape out. The nipples seal the hole from the inside so no dirt can get in.

So then during a ride (November) i notice my front wheel is way out of true, when i get home i see that a spoke is loose but undamaged, i untape the wheel to see that all the nipples have a dusty white appearance (corroded), and 3 of them are nearly disintegrated but theres so little left of them i cant even get them off without cutting a perfectly good spoke.

The rattling noise was shards of alu from the sides of the nipples and obviously the disintegrated one from the loose spoke that is nowhere to be seen. The shards looked to be stuck together in little balls as if they had picked up some of the sticky glue from the Gorilla tape that is sticky side down on the underside of the spoke access hole.

Has some stans fluid possibly escaped into the "nipple chamber" and done this ?

Gorilla tape IMO is crap so wont be using it again.

Back wheel i stripped tonight has also 4 nipples in advanced state of corrosion. Cant do much about it as i dont have replacement Sapim CX ray spokes to replace the ones i would have to cut. I have replacement nipples but cant get a nipple driver to grab a corroded nipple :confused:

So ive rinsed the chamber out on both wheels and will retape them with Stans tape tomorrow.

Is there any fluid i could put in there to help reduce corrosion that WOULDNT damage the carbon fibre.

I have no idea if this is an ENVE wheel design problem, nipple issue or what.
Haven't read a single ****ing comment of this thread byt GALVANIC corrosion is something that you might wanna look into. Carbon fiber is a helluva conductor of electricity and you are riding on rubber tires isolating you from earth, and all isolated element build up static electricity by just being isolated, and its no joke e3ither..

I'm guessing this is the first sign of the galvanic potential of carbon in practical use. You did good man. just get brass nipples from now on, preferably nickel or chromed ones.
 
#10 ·
Some interesting points... cheers !

The wheels were ordered direct from ENVE so what ever lubricants they use to build wheels - if any, is the only stuff put on them. I taped them up with gorilla tape and started riding them with stans added.

It has to be corrosion from the inside as the nipples are not exposed to the outside air/dust/moisture. Something has gone on inside the "nipple chamber" and the only things i can put it down to is a reaction from Stans fluid, Gorilla glue or now Galvanic corrosion..... though i have never had this happen with any other wheels before AND i build all my own wheel sets so i take good notice of what they are doing as far as nipples, spokes, tension and trueing.

BTW there was no tell-tale signs that i was losing stans fluid inside the wheel, both wheels had 2 wraps of tightly wrapped gorilla tape on them and apart from sticking to tyres and leaving a mess when removed it had stuck quite well. Even through the tape at the valve hole was stans free.

I got replacement nipples from my LBS through the Aussie agent, that took 6 weeks and people wonder why we buy everything online.

Will contact ENVE and see what they think, i actually sent them an email on the 29/11/12 about sourcing new nipples and telling them i had one disentigrate but got no answer. I send a link to this thread too.

Cheers for the help :thumbsup:
 
#12 ·
Fwiw, I've got a set of 29 er wheels that's almost 5 years old with no corrossion. I've never even tried to run them tubeless though and I also live in the high dessert.

Pillar makes enves so called proprietary nipples, if anybody does a brass version, its them. Whatever you do, don't drill out the holes.
 
#16 ·
Thanks for the replies, ive sent ENVE an email and link to this thread. Hopefully they might have a solution to stop this corrosion going any further.

I dont want to tape them up and start riding them again if the nipples are going to continue to corrode effectively turning the wheels into a time bomb with the nipples disintegrating and spokes popping out.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Ive just had a look on the sapim website, they make inverted nipples in brass but not pillars. These would need a special tool where as the pillars just need a long series socket.

EDIT: Just found a website that sells internal brass and the 3.2mm square tool. Will wait and see what enve says then i might rebuild both wheels with brass internals.
 
#23 ·
I'm not sure of the root cause of failure, but just to throw this out there- Stan's has been known to corrode the inside of certain Shimano road rims, which apparently have little to no anodizing. I believe there's a lengthy thread on forums.roadbikereview.com.

I wouldn't discount sealant corrosion, as I've seen multiple leaks through gorilla tape.
 
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#24 ·
Same problem

Hi ozzybmx, Just so as you don't feel alone in this issue. I'm in Qld and I've experienced this problem a lot. First of all was 3 or 4 years ago when I bought a set of DT carbon wheels.

I found out one time when I banged the rear into a bank and the back wheel broke a bunch of spokes (bike stopped, I kept going and checked out the track more closely). Back at the LBS they pulled it down, the nipples were corroded and this had weakened the wheel (normally a rough roost wouldn't do that - the DT Cs were amazing in the rough and tumble).

Refitted, special attention to taping etc, rode for a few months and the front broke a spoke. Should have pulled that down back then to, it was corroded. Replaced all nipples now, and then I had 3 more broken spoke incidents on 3 more occasions - all from corrosion. The downtime was frustrating. Special attention was given to cleaning and fresh tape each rebuild.

I had a trip to NZ planned, which meant speed, berms, and berms (did I say that already, well there's so many of them....), drops, bumps and jumps. So I was a little worried breaking another spoke/s a month out or during the trip. I stripped both wheels (darn, had to put fresh rubber on - gotta love fresh rubber before a big trip), new spokes and new brass nipples. Rode this on the trip and for a good 9 months without a further issue, just the cracks in the rims were growing too big for me to keep running them and besides, I had another trip to NZ planned, more berms and jumps (did I mention that).

I bought some Enves, and on inspection the same issue occurred a few months in - corrosion. Then I bought a 29er as well, and some more Enves, and I have corrosion in those nipples. And, yesterday I heard a rattle in the back tyre. Your thread is a timely reminder and has solved my rattle issue, bloody corrosion has struck again. I'll be chasing some brass to shut down this corrosion issue.

From my DT carbon experience, the Enve's have taken a lot longer to corrode the nipples. (The DT were great wheels, off the charts performance, just complaining about corrosion). I am saying this to indicate that I don't think it is a particular Enve specific issue and actually, they are better than another Carbon wheel experience I have had in terms of what I believe is sealant induced corrosion.

And about the only solution is to go brass nipples. I firmly believe it is the sealant, not saying it is just Stans either as I did run another brand of sealant as well, it is the cost of running AL nipples. AL is hopeless with corrosion. It's annoying as you want to keep the rotational weight on the outer edge down as much as possible and running brass nipples just feels a little counterproductive with carbon wheels, but, if it works and keeps the wheels together and keeps them rolling, then that will pay in the long run I guess. Besides carbon wheels isn't necessarily about the weight, it's the overal performance of them that is so impressive.
 
#25 ·
Cheers WilliamK, just got a reply back from ENVE and the Pillar (brand) nipples that they use are not a hard anodized alu so thats the reason for the rapid corrosion as they are soft alu.

ENVE think its my climate caused it but im with you on the Stans theory coupled with the crap Gorilla tape that shouldnt be used on wheels at all... its dry and hot here with little rain and the corrosion happened on the inside where it was dry apart from the sticky balls of alu shards.

Seems im on my own with the issue so i'll buy the brass nipples + the tool and rebuild them myself.

Also i wouldnt worry about the weigh penalty of brass as the 1 wrap of gorilla tape weights more than the 20g extra per wheel running brass (30g) over alu (10g).

Thanks for sharing :thumbsup:
 
#27 ·
Cheers WilliamK, just got a reply back from ENVE and the Pillar (brand) nipples that they use are not a hard anodized alu so thats the reason for the rapid corrosion as they are soft alu.

ENVE think its my climate caused it but im with you on the Stans theory coupled with the crap Gorilla tape that shouldnt be used on wheels at all... its dry and hot here with little rain and the corrosion happened on the inside where it was dry apart from the sticky balls of alu shards.
I am struggling to understand why ENVE would use a nipple that has not been hard anodized. Could anyone speculate for me?
 
#26 ·
Done ! just bought the nipples and tool, hopefully they wont be too long as ive been off this bike because of the wheels since late November.
 
#33 ·
I have 64 brass internal nipples (only needed 56 but got a few spares) currently in the local Fedex depot to be delivered to me on Monday morning. Not taking a chance on alu again, they are absolute nightmare, i still dont know how im getting a few of them off without cutting spokes... im hoping the remaining few will come out when the tension is off and the "dish" of the wheel is relaxed.

Will then set them up tubeless with stans rather than gorilla tape.
 
#37 ·
$800 rim, the wheels were built by Enve and shipped to me direct... $2700.

Yeah it sucks a bit that I got no help to rectify the issue apart from Enve saying it happens and they are aware of the problem and I should rebuild them with brass internal nipples.
But hey, it's a $50 fix I can do myself and I hadn't even looked at the warranty limitations.... I just wanted a solution or help to fix the problem.
 
#42 ·
Maybe ozzybmx's wheel set was exposed to tropical salty air conditions during shipping to Australia? This could explain such rapid corrosion too. Salty film on the nipples never washed away would continue to attract any moisture, and oxidize quickly.

I've always used alloy nipples, DT brand, building my own wheels for 15 years. One wheelset did fail after 3 or 4 years from nipple corrosion, using Mavic's first UST aluminum rims, the special nipple adapters failed. But I can't recall a DT nipple fail from corrosion. I do frequently wash my bike after most rides, because I don't have a garage and must keep my bike in my house, and when the bike is sitting in the sun I have often seen a little water drip out of the rim at a low spoke hole. For me 3 to 4 years is satisfactory life for an aluminum wheelset, the rims are pretty beat by then. I hope my carbon fiber rims hold up much longer, like cf frames usually do... time will tell.
 
#43 ·
Heres the box.... the proud day it arrived, wheels were perfect and completely sealed. Absolutely no signs of anything either contaminating the box or anything getting inside.

This is something that has happened since i got them, some reaction with tape, stans or whatever.... its beyond me and ENVE are not exactly clued up on what caused it yet either BUT they have acknowledged its happened before, they have an idea whats causing it, and they have gave me a solution which i cant see any reason why it wont fix the problem.

 
#45 ·
Heres the nipples from the rear wheel, its now finished and fitted with brass internal nipples.

I'll get the front wheel done tomorrow hopefully, it was the one that spoke came loose and the nipple disintigrated.... now its became clear why.

9 of the nipples on the rear were too corroded and couldnt be undone by the socket. It took a bit of time but the only other alternative is cut the spokes

Also in the pic is the alu pillar nipple, what the rest of them should look like and the other one is the new brass internal nipples im fitting to the wheels now. Pictured at the bottom was the worst nipple on the rear wheel, looks like it was ready to let go at anytime.



 
#47 ·
Click here, scroll down the page to spoke tools, its the 3.2mm square one that i got.

The nipples came from there too, pretty good as he sent it fedex priority and were here in 5 days for $6 shipping.
 
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