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  1. #26
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    Done ! just bought the nipples and tool, hopefully they wont be too long as ive been off this bike because of the wheels since late November.
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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    Cheers WilliamK, just got a reply back from ENVE and the Pillar (brand) nipples that they use are not a hard anodized alu so thats the reason for the rapid corrosion as they are soft alu.

    ENVE think its my climate caused it but im with you on the Stans theory coupled with the crap Gorilla tape that shouldnt be used on wheels at all... its dry and hot here with little rain and the corrosion happened on the inside where it was dry apart from the sticky balls of alu shards.
    I am struggling to understand why ENVE would use a nipple that has not been hard anodized. Could anyone speculate for me?

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    Done ! just bought the nipples and tool, hopefully they wont be too long as ive been off this bike because of the wheels since late November.
    The inside of the rim is shaped specificaly for the pillar nipples. Using something else might give reason to void your warranty. If thats a concern to you, you could have a set of nipples anodized and that shouod cure your corrosion woes.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by customfab View Post
    Using something else might give reason to void your warranty. If thats a concern to you, you could have a set of nipples anodized and that shouod cure your corrosion woes.
    Im kind of over a barrel anyway as i wont ride the wheels in the current state. ENVE have stated they are quite aware of the problem in some enviroments with the pillar nipples and said "its likely has something to do with the Stanís as well" and have advised me to rebuild the wheels with "Sapim internal nipples or something similar" so i should be good to go.

    They are also "developing a lightweight brass nipple to address the solution"

    Quoted"" above are exact words from the email.

    The new nipples are on the way Fedex Priority, i'll have the wheels rebuilt in a couple of days after recieving the new parts. I waited 5 weeks to get the Alu nipples ordering here in Oz so its probably the best solution for me to do it myself anyway.
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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adroit Rider View Post
    I am struggling to understand why ENVE would use a nipple that has not been hard anodized. Could anyone speculate for me?
    Because they don't make them and they don't want to have them made.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    The resin, which doesn't conduct electricity, isolates the fibers from the nipple. Testament to this are the aluminum:carbon interfaces all over modern bikes. I was just adding to your point that galvanic corrosion is suspect as an explanation.
    As far as I know, and I know quite a lot about composites, it would take a lot of extra work to just get resin in the interface, its most likely as the rest of the composite, 50/50 fibers/resin at the contact area.

    Somehow the mold this right, and they stick some pin or something in there and just lay up the fibers as usual or in some type of special pattern around the holes, maybe a different fiber orientation but I'm guessing you would still have contact between the actual fibers and the nipple when done. I just can't see this happening with the actual fibers isolated from what they put in there when making the hole. Sure it could be done. But I'm kinda sceptical to that since the resin itself is not at all strong/hard/creep resistant (its plastic, epoxy plastic), the strength in the composite comes from the ablity of the resin/matrix/binder or whatever you wanna call it having good adhesion to the fibers and their molecular bond.

    could be wrong though.
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    Im kind of over a barrel anyway as i wont ride the wheels in the current state. ENVE have stated they are quite aware of the problem in some enviroments with the pillar nipples and said "its likely has something to do with the Stanís as well" and have advised me to rebuild the wheels with "Sapim internal nipples or something similar" so i should be good to go.

    They are also "developing a lightweight brass nipple to address the solution"

    Quoted"" above are exact words from the email.

    The new nipples are on the way Fedex Priority, i'll have the wheels rebuilt in a couple of days after recieving the new parts. I waited 5 weeks to get the Alu nipples ordering here in Oz so its probably the best solution for me to do it myself anyway.
    If you could find brass nipples you can have one sacrificial alu nipple in there and you only change that one since it will attract all the corrosion just like sacrificial anodes on boats.

    Anodized alu have a coating of alu oxide, thats a ceramic, and its nonconductive, and unless the oxide is removed while assembling, the nipples would be somewhat isolated galvanically, which the goo inside I don't know. Test the resistance of the goo with a multimeter and find out if its a good conductor.

    If you can o0nly find alu nipples I suggest stocking up on them! AND using synthetic grease just as customfab recommended, and lots of it too., preferably some waterproof grease. Marine grease. OR anodizing the nipples yourself or have someone do it properly. Black Type 3 hard coat or something.
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  8. #33
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    I have 64 brass internal nipples (only needed 56 but got a few spares) currently in the local Fedex depot to be delivered to me on Monday morning. Not taking a chance on alu again, they are absolute nightmare, i still dont know how im getting a few of them off without cutting spokes... im hoping the remaining few will come out when the tension is off and the "dish" of the wheel is relaxed.

    Will then set them up tubeless with stans rather than gorilla tape.
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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by car bone View Post
    As far as I know, and I know quite a lot about composites, it would take a lot of extra work to just get resin in the interface, its most likely as the rest of the composite, 50/50 fibers/resin at the contact area.

    Somehow the mold this right, and they stick some pin or something in there and just lay up the fibers as usual or in some type of special pattern around the holes, maybe a different fiber orientation but I'm guessing you would still have contact between the actual fibers and the nipple when done. I just can't see this happening with the actual fibers isolated from what they put in there when making the hole. Sure it could be done. But I'm kinda sceptical to that since the resin itself is not at all strong/hard/creep resistant (its plastic, epoxy plastic), the strength in the composite comes from the ablity of the resin/matrix/binder or whatever you wanna call it having good adhesion to the fibers and their molecular bond.

    could be wrong though.
    I'll defer to you if you have direct experience. My understanding is that the structural stuff is covered with cosmetic layers and typically some kind of protective coating.
    I didn't mean to imply that when it's laid up they somehow keep the fibers from the surface.
    In any case, why hasn't my carbon bar destroyed my Thomson stem or my carbon post destroyed the aluminum frame of my FS? There has to be some isolation. It seems to me that it's likely on the carbon rather than aluminum side.
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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    Cheers WilliamK, just got a reply back from ENVE and the Pillar (brand) nipples that they use are not a hard anodized alu so thats the reason for the rapid corrosion as they are soft alu.

    ENVE think its my climate caused it but im with you on the Stans theory coupled with the crap Gorilla tape that shouldnt be used on wheels at all... its dry and hot here with little rain and the corrosion happened on the inside where it was dry apart from the sticky balls of alu shards.

    Seems im on my own with the issue so i'll buy the brass nipples + the tool and rebuild them myself.

    Also i wouldnt worry about the weigh penalty of brass as the 1 wrap of gorilla tape weights more than the 20g extra per wheel running brass (30g) over alu (10g).

    Thanks for sharing
    so envy is hands off on your problem??? kinda $h!tty considering they are $800+ a rim and they use proprietary nipples. they warrantied them for someone else with the issue

    Quote Originally Posted by 29or6to4 View Post
    My original Edge rims had a problem with the old Pillar nipples they use to use. They were all corroded and falling apart within the rim. So wheelset went back to them and the UST just were made available. I might have got one of the first sets, any way for a small amount extra I could have the hubs built with new UST's and keep my Edges. Sold the Edges to pay for the new Enves. Worked out pretty good. I like not having to use the Stans rubber strip to keep tubeless.
    Enve Rims Anyone? from that thread

    lol, they have obviously figured out a way around it

    LIMITATIONS OF WARRANTY:

    Warranty does not cover parts that have been incorrectly installed, serviced, or otherwise adjusted respective to the ENVE installation manual.
    Warranty does not cover damage sustained to parts used for applications beyond the scope of their intended design (ex. Using All Mountain rims for Downhill).
    ENVE Grey brake pads are provided with ENVE rims and complete wheelsets. Failure to use the ENVE Grey brake pads will void the warranty.
    Warranty does not apply to damage related to a crash, impact, unauthorized alteration, abuse of product, and normal wear and tear. See ENVEís Lifetime Crash Replacement. Normal wear and tear refers to:
    Worn out braking surface
    Worn or damaged brake pads
    Damaged spokes from crashing or poor shifting adjustment
    Nipple corrosion
    Superficial chips and scratches on rim or components
    Warranty does not apply to parts manufactured by other manufacturer (ex. hubs, spokes, nipples). Consult the individual manufactures for issues related to these parts.
    Warranty for ENVE tubing and other molded frame parts such as seat stays, chain stays and head tubes covered under standard two year warranty.

    kinda sucks for the end user when they currently have only one real option for nipples and they obviously do have corrosion issues. would make me feel pretty sick dropping that kind of cash on a product where one of the main components can corrode and it's on you.
    Last edited by qbert2000; 02-02-2013 at 12:57 PM.

  11. #36
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    Until they sort this out I wouldn't consider using ENVE rims

  12. #37
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    $800 rim, the wheels were built by Enve and shipped to me direct... $2700.

    Yeah it sucks a bit that I got no help to rectify the issue apart from Enve saying it happens and they are aware of the problem and I should rebuild them with brass internal nipples.
    But hey, it's a $50 fix I can do myself and I hadn't even looked at the warranty limitations.... I just wanted a solution or help to fix the problem.
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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    $800 rim, the wheels were built by Enve and shipped to me direct... $2700.

    Yeah it sucks a bit that I got no help to rectify the issue apart from Enve saying it happens and they are aware of the problem and I should rebuild them with brass internal nipples.
    But hey, it's a $50 fix I can do myself and I hadn't even looked at the warranty limitations.... I just wanted a solution or help to fix the problem.
    what happens to your warranty when you rebuild with a brass nipple then? it is voided? if they know of the issue you'd think at $800 per they'd be working on a solution

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    what happens to your warranty when you rebuild with a brass nipple then? it is voided? if they know of the issue you'd think at $800 per they'd be working on a solution
    The warranty specifically exempts them from nipple corrosion, so I'd say that they have a solution already, just not a very nice one.

    It seems odd that on a $2000+ wheel set the manufacturer is too cheap to pay for anodised or brass nipples. Guess they've been talking to Fox about customer service...

  15. #40
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    Heres the extracts from the email i posted above.

    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    Im kind of over a barrel anyway as i wont ride the wheels in the current state. ENVE have stated they are quite aware of the problem in some enviroments with the pillar nipples and said "its likely has something to do with the Stanís as well" and have advised me to rebuild the wheels with "Sapim internal nipples or something similar" so i should be good to go.

    They are also "developing a lightweight brass nipple to address the solution"

    Quoted"" above are exact words from the email.

    The new nipples are on the way Fedex Priority, i'll have the wheels rebuilt in a couple of days after recieving the new parts. I waited 5 weeks to get the Alu nipples ordering here in Oz so its probably the best solution for me to do it myself anyway.
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  16. #41
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    Props to you, you are an incredibly understanding and patient man. I hope the rebuild goes well

  17. #42
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    Maybe ozzybmx's wheel set was exposed to tropical salty air conditions during shipping to Australia? This could explain such rapid corrosion too. Salty film on the nipples never washed away would continue to attract any moisture, and oxidize quickly.

    I've always used alloy nipples, DT brand, building my own wheels for 15 years. One wheelset did fail after 3 or 4 years from nipple corrosion, using Mavic's first UST aluminum rims, the special nipple adapters failed. But I can't recall a DT nipple fail from corrosion. I do frequently wash my bike after most rides, because I don't have a garage and must keep my bike in my house, and when the bike is sitting in the sun I have often seen a little water drip out of the rim at a low spoke hole. For me 3 to 4 years is satisfactory life for an aluminum wheelset, the rims are pretty beat by then. I hope my carbon fiber rims hold up much longer, like cf frames usually do... time will tell.

  18. #43
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    Heres the box.... the proud day it arrived, wheels were perfect and completely sealed. Absolutely no signs of anything either contaminating the box or anything getting inside.

    This is something that has happened since i got them, some reaction with tape, stans or whatever.... its beyond me and ENVE are not exactly clued up on what caused it yet either BUT they have acknowledged its happened before, they have an idea whats causing it, and they have gave me a solution which i cant see any reason why it wont fix the problem.

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  19. #44
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    Wow I can't believe this is still a problem with Enve/Edge wheels. I would have hoped they had changed the nipples by now. Time to peak in my wheel and see how they look.
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  20. #45
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    Heres the nipples from the rear wheel, its now finished and fitted with brass internal nipples.

    I'll get the front wheel done tomorrow hopefully, it was the one that spoke came loose and the nipple disintigrated.... now its became clear why.

    9 of the nipples on the rear were too corroded and couldnt be undone by the socket. It took a bit of time but the only other alternative is cut the spokes

    Also in the pic is the alu pillar nipple, what the rest of them should look like and the other one is the new brass internal nipples im fitting to the wheels now. Pictured at the bottom was the worst nipple on the rear wheel, looks like it was ready to let go at anytime.



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  21. #46
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    Begs a serious question, why don't/didn't Enve put any fibreglass round the rim bed?
    Fifty grams of E Glass, problem never happens.

    Another question, what tool are you using for the new nipples?

  22. #47
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    Click here, scroll down the page to spoke tools, its the 3.2mm square one that i got.

    The nipples came from there too, pretty good as he sent it fedex priority and were here in 5 days for $6 shipping.
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  23. #48
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    Just a look at your pic. The brass nipple does not seem to be the same OD as the pillar. Can you confirm that the brass sets squarely in the molded carbon nipple slots?
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  24. #49
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    car bone feels your pain ozzy. what a bunch of f***ing jokers they are. did they really think this through? they thought this was going to work? when building something; if you spend less than 95% of time thinking about how it should be done, all possible ins and outs, then you're doing it ****ing wrong and thats it. this is proof.
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  25. #50
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    Enve
    Last edited by RiverSurfer; 02-07-2013 at 01:20 PM.

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