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  1. #1
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    Enve Twenty6 AM vs Carbon Haven

    I am trying to lighten/speed up my Mojo HD currently with Flows and Stan Hubs. I have narrowed it down to a set of carbon rims. I am 180 geared up. here is how I see them stack up

    Haven carbons
    1450 grams
    True UST
    36 POE - higher then I have ever ridden
    21mm inner diameter
    2 year no question asked warranty
    Hubs - older models have some issues, but newer ones seem ok.
    Hard to get spokes- not to worried
    Plenty of reviews, been out for a while.

    ENVE twenty6 AM
    DT 240- 1450 g
    Kings - 1550. g
    24mm inner diameter
    No reviews of the AM models
    Not ust. Needs rim tape. But supposedly designed for tubless?
    Based on width sounds like they just shoved a bigger bladder in there DH mold ( same outer diameter but the am is actually wider inside)

    I am leaning to the Havens, known entity, good warranty.

    I know wider rims help hold the tire better and change the profile of the tire. But is 21 wide enough, especially true UST? Have tire treds even been designed with 24mm in mind? To me this seems to be the biggest difference on a daily basis (as opposed to rare breakage)

    advice welcome

  2. #2
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    Keep in mind that the Haven wheelset is a "system" wheelset, and if you're okay with that, then go with it. Have you found out how long the new model hubs have been out, and are you comfortable with them, or would you just be intending to rely on the Easton warranty? If you want to go with a true UST rim, maybe this is the better choice for you.

    The ENVE AM rims have been designed with UST compatible rim beads and seats. There are reviews, and published for the AM rims. Besides ENVE stating that their clincher rims are all now tubeless on their website in various ways, you could also contact ENVE to confirm this fact. From all I read, ENVE invests a lot of time and money into R&D, and their AM rims were designed, tested, proven and released way before they ever thought of developing a DH rim. From reading their press release, the DH rim outer dimension is 31mm (30mm listed on the website) and the inner dimension is 21mm, which says to me that the DH rim has a thicker bead hook than the AM rim, and this makes a whole lot of sense to me. A competent independent wheel builder can build you a custom wheelset using these rims, or you can place an order with ENVE for them to do the wheel build. Lots of options.

    If you are concerned about inner rim widths, you might want to also consider the range of inner rim widths available on aluminum rims, and all the various tire widths used on all those rims. Think of the Mavic EX823 rim for FR, also a true UST rim.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bones2 View Post
    I am trying to lighten/speed up my Mojo HD currently with Flows and Stan Hubs. I have narrowed it down to a set of carbon rims. I am 180 geared up. here is how I see them stack up

    Haven carbons
    1450 grams
    True UST
    36 POE - higher then I have ever ridden
    21mm inner diameter
    2 year no question asked warranty
    Hubs - older models have some issues, but newer ones seem ok.
    Hard to get spokes- not to worried
    Plenty of reviews, been out for a while.

    ENVE twenty6 AM
    DT 240- 1450 g
    Kings - 1550. g
    24mm inner diameter
    No reviews of the AM models
    Not ust. Needs rim tape. But supposedly designed for tubless?
    Based on width sounds like they just shoved a bigger bladder in there DH mold ( same outer diameter but the am is actually wider inside)

    I am leaning to the Havens, known entity, good warranty.

    I know wider rims help hold the tire better and change the profile of the tire. But is 21 wide enough, especially true UST? Have tire treds even been designed with 24mm in mind? To me this seems to be the biggest difference on a daily basis (as opposed to rare breakage)

    advice welcome
    Hey everybody, ride my wheels! They ride good, real good.
    I'm a wheel builder. SRLPE Wheel Works. Send me a PM.

  3. #3
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    I'm wondering the same thing as you and am trying to prep for a custom build (I'm debating 26 or 29er). I just went through pro wheel builder.com and built up a set of enve's with king hubs, rim tape, and 32 spokes and they came out weighing over 1858 grams. I was suprised they weigh that much compared to the Eastons.

    Granted I feel like the kings are a better hub (and I'd be buying local). What's throwing even more of a kink is the non-carbon havens. For the price and weight it seems like a no brainer. There half the price and only 200 grams heaveier than the carbon per Easton's website.

    The Carbon eastons are around 2200 and the aluminum are only 900, that's a lot of coin I could spend on a nice fork or towards a frame. More food for thought.

  4. #4
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    My Crossmax SX has 21mm ID, and no issues with tire profile.

    Another option you might look at are the cheap Chinese carbon rims that everyone has been looking to buy. $150 vs. $1000 Enve ones.

    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by buddiesconfusion View Post
    I'm wondering the same thing as you and am trying to prep for a custom build (I'm debating 26 or 29er). I just went through pro wheel builder.com and built up a set of enve's with king hubs, rim tape, and 32 spokes and they came out weighing over 1858 grams. I was suprised they weigh that much compared to the Eastons.

    Granted I feel like the kings are a better hub (and I'd be buying local). What's throwing even more of a kink is the non-carbon havens. For the price and weight it seems like a no brainer. There half the price and only 200 grams heaveier than the carbon per Easton's website.

    The Carbon eastons are around 2200 and the aluminum are only 900, that's a lot of coin I could spend on a nice fork or towards a frame. More food for thought.
    Was that 1850 for the 29 inch? How much does rim tape way? Seems far off from 1550 on the ENVE site

    I don't trust the Chinese ones. Carbon dosent bend it tacos. That's dangerous. If i was just doing cx I would consider it. But I have a trip planed to Moab and want to be able to trust my wheels.

  6. #6
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    A couple of points:

    Both types of Enve rims (XC and AM), and both sizes, are UST.

    My XC 29er wheels weigh 1440g. 28h, running DT 240s, with tape. Do the math, going to the slightly heavier rims, and you still have wheels well under 1600g.

    Also, I'm fairly certain these rims will survive the apocalypse.

  7. #7
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    AM 's are Not official UST, xc are

  8. #8
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    Avoid the havens. I had 4 issues with the hubs. Newer hubs are the same design.

  9. #9
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    Bones2 if I remember right enve's website has the 1550gm weight with a non king hub and I think 28 aerolite spokes. Don't quote me. I think that's why the weight was so low. I don't think you can run the kings with 28 spokes or the aerolites. I'd check enve's site but I can't pull it uP on my iPhone.

  10. #10
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    I finally pulled up the page your right it is 1554 gm with a king hub and 28 aerolite spokes. Is 28 enough spokes for an AM setup with a king hub?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dictatorsaurus View Post
    Avoid the havens. I had 4 issues with the hubs. Newer hubs are the same design.
    wrong

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    wrong
    Besides the preload adjuster, the hubs are the same.

    Straight from easton.

  13. #13
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    My ENVE XC wheels rear with king hub, sapim cx ray spokes 32h 870grams
    front wheel 28h king 20mm hub 720grams. Will post ENVE DH rim with king hub weights when my LBS can get them!

  14. #14
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    I am currently researching the same thing for myself. As you mentioned the old easton hubs seemed to have had a lot of problems, which is kind of ridiculous considering how expensive the wheelset is. For me I just don't want to take the risk and I know the DT hubs are completely bulletproof so I'm leaning towards the enve with DT 240 hubs.

  15. #15
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    For me I just don't want to take the risk and I know the DT hubs are completely bulletproof so I'm leaning towards the enve with DT 240 hubs.
    Exactly, that is why I went with Enve XC29/DT240 on my new Jet 9 RDO. Running them tubeless with Geax AKA 2.2". Very pleased.

  16. #16
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    Dry Side

    Tubeless with rim strip? TnT ? Or no rim strip?

  17. #17
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    Enve's use Gorilla tape. One wrap ..

    ENVE UST Kit Installation - YouTube

    Not running Geax TNT, but one can if they want a stiffer sidewall.

  18. #18
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    The new Easton preload system works perfect, period.

    The enves are sick too. unfortunate you still have to wrap such exoensive rims with duct tape, wtf

  19. #19
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    Im going to post just because Im so fricken stoked my wheels shipped will be here on monday.After much searching asking so on I got Mike C to build me some single speed
    race wheels and trusted him .I got Enve 29er xc rims Dt swiss 240's SS rear thrue axle
    Qr.Laced with dt comps front disc side,and Revolutions everywhere else.I think he said 3 cross front disc side 2 cross everywhere else.Should be uber light SS only wheels.
    Did I say Im stoked!

  20. #20
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    You can get the Easton's for $1700 on ebay. I was hesitant at first but the seller has a 99.7% positive feedback rating from THOUSANDS of buyers, including numerous people that have bought $1800 road wheelsets from him.

    I have Easton Haven aluminum wheels and I did have a different issue than most (brake rotor related...probably even MY fault) but Easton sent me a brand new wheel, total turnaround time of about 11 days. While the Easton's may or may not have an issue at some point, I trust them 110% to back up their product.

    I priced the Enve's with DT240's and was quoted $2500. If I was paying full price for the Easton's, I may indeed go for the Enve's just so I could have the King hubs of my choice. However, for $800 less WITH a 2 year warranty, I'd go Easton. Good luck, you can't go wrong!!

  21. #21
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    Most places have at least 10% off the Enve wheels and rims. BikeBling for example, use the code "REALDEAL".

  22. #22
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    Bones2, not the AM rims, but Fairwheelbikes just finished building these for me. Using these for XC/light AM riding.Troy Watson built these & he is one of the best in the Biz.
    Enve 26" UST, 28 hole, Fairwheel Enve custom decals.
    Sapim CX-Ray spokes.
    Pillar Alum. nipples.
    Extralite Ultra hubs. front 15mm TA.
    Thrilled with the weight @ 1169 grams.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Enve Twenty6 AM vs Carbon Haven-enve_extralite_studio_01_1.jpg  

    Enve Twenty6 AM vs Carbon Haven-enve_extralite_studio_02_1.jpg  

    Enve Twenty6 AM vs Carbon Haven-enve_extralite_front_scale_1.jpg  

    Enve Twenty6 AM vs Carbon Haven-enve_extralite_rear_scale_1.jpg  


  23. #23
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    ^^ Awesome wheels. Congrats!

  24. #24
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    Thanks for all the input. Agree that the Enve cx wheels are great, true ust and light. But I (probably without grounds) think I would be worried on the days I do true AM riding. Have a Mojo HD with 180lb geared up rider. Pictures of tacoed wheels are scary. And the 18mm inner diameter sounds a little narrow.

    The Enve AM's are NOT true UST and everyone keeps raving about the xc not the am's. Still haven't seen anyone talk about them except industry first rides.

    1100 grams! Wow!

    Still deciding, and think I am going to use these as motivation to loose 10 lbs myself

  25. #25
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    Yody thanks for posting I know you put your wheels through a lot. I think the hubs are a non issue for me now. I know you went from haven to havoc aluminum, but I think the carbon havens should be at least as stiff and strong as the aluminum havocs

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones2 View Post
    Thanks for all the input. Agree that the Enve cx wheels are great, true ust and light. But I (probably without grounds) think I would be worried on the days I do true AM riding. Have a Mojo HD with 180lb geared up rider. Pictures of tacoed wheels are scary. And the 18mm inner diameter sounds a little narrow.

    The Enve AM's are NOT true UST and everyone keeps raving about the xc not the am's. Still haven't seen anyone talk about them except industry first rides.

    1100 grams! Wow!

    Still deciding, and think I am going to use these as motivation to loose 10 lbs myself
    Bones the Enve XC rims are 21mm ID, not 18mm.

  27. #27
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    Then why does Enve website say 18mm internal width for the XC rims? Typo? I do have the Enve XC and they do look similar in width to my Stan's Arch rims, but I did not measure.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dry Side View Post
    Then why does Enve website say 18mm internal width for the XC rims? Typo? I do have the Enve XC and they do look similar in width to my Stan's Arch rims, but I did not measure.
    That must be a typo or the older non UST specs.
    This shows the new spec, although only the OD of 24mm, but I've seen the spec of 21mm for the ID.
    Enve 26 XC UST Tubeless Rim [Env 26 XC UST Tubeless Rim] : Fairwheel Bikes, Cycling Boutique

  29. #29
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    What do you want them for? For a mostly racing wheelset, I would go with the havens. They are lighter than you can build up the enves (especially with a 20mm hub) and are really nice. But for a do everything wheelset, I would go with the enves and a higher end hub and take the weight increase. They will still be very light, just not a sub 1500g set. The reasoning is that Easton makes a very nice wheel, but their hubs simply don't match a chris king, etc. The new preload adjuster on the havens works much better, but I still go through at least a set if not two sets of bearings per year in my rear hub (I have havens, new havocs, and the old havoc AM). In contrast, my chris kings are 4 years old and still flawlessly running the original bearings. Changing bearings is easy, but its still nice to have as low maintenance as possible for an everyday wheelset

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones2 View Post
    Yody thanks for posting I know you put your wheels through a lot. I think the hubs are a non issue for me now. I know you went from haven to havoc aluminum, but I think the carbon havens should be at least as stiff and strong as the aluminum havocs
    I have (and have broken) haven carbons, they are not as strong as havoc aluminiums.

    Easton work good care of me re warranty claim too. I've also had zero hub issues on either wheel set.

    Carbon havocs due autumn this year I hear now too.

  31. #31
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    Enve AM are true UST standard. The standard does not refer, iirc, to whether or not rim tape is used.

    Also the main reason for buying carbon rims is stiffness, steering accuracy and longevity, not weight.
    Aka chainline...

  32. #32
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    Vikingboy, how did they break?? What where you doing and what happened to the wheel? Thanks

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    Enve AM are true UST standard. The standard does not refer, iirc, to whether or not rim tape is used.

    Also the main reason for buying carbon rims is stiffness, steering accuracy and longevity, not weight.
    No I emailed them and they said xc are true UST but the AM are not, mostly because UST does not allow for a wheel that wide, but that it was UST style.

    And to say that one of the main reasons to get carbon wheels is not weight is silly, for many that is probably the main reason. Coming from flows, I want a wheel as stiff but lighter. Kind of a best of both worlds type thing.
    Last edited by Bones2; 03-05-2012 at 09:24 AM.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones2 View Post
    Vikingboy, how did they break?? What where you doing and what happened to the wheel? Thanks
    Details in my build thread here....Vikingboy's Specialized Enduro build thread

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    I've spent the last few months researching this same question and get my new wheels in 5 days from now. I'm going with the ENVE AM and DT240s, 29er for my 2012 Epic. I know a guy that has the Easton Wheels and he likes them.

    I'm also 170-175 pounds and considered that if I'm going to spend this kind of money for a wheelset, I wanted it to be an investment for my next bike. I also wanted a wheelset that I could ride for training and racing. I already had a set of 240s hubs on a set of stans arch rims so I'm using them for the ENVE build to save some $. I also went with the AM rim due to being 28mm wide (looks like a truck wheel) and only 40grams heavier than the XC.

    At 180 pounds, I don't think I'd go with 28 hole...stick with 32h. The wheels I was considering where the Eastons, Roval Controle SL carbon, and the Enve set. I feel confident I choose the strongest best overall set for my weight.

    BTW, hard to find spokes are ok till you need some. Been down that road, and won't do it again.

  36. #36
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    You will probably achieve a lighter wheel with the Carbon Havens, but my preference would be for a 32h Enve 26AM build on DT.

    Hubs:
    The DT hubs are better proven, a piece of cake to maintain, and just as easy to switch axle formats. The Easton hubs can't claim the same.

    Spokes:
    There's alot to be said for having standard J-spokes. You can get them fixed at many bike shops. The Eastons will need sending off.

    Longevity:
    A 32h build will last longer than a 24h build unless you happen to have the skills and tools and patience to keep the tensions on the 24h solution within tight tolerances long term. A 32h solution can operate with looser tolerances (i.e the sort you can achieve in your kitchen workshop) before excessive strain is applied to specific points on the rims/spokes.

    If you're happy buying a wheel system which needs sending off to fix/maintain and needs replacing after a shorter period of time, like the Havens, you might also want to consider the DT EXC1550s, which come in at 1530g and I guess may be cheaper than either.
    Don't fight the mountain

  37. #37
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    twebeast; why do Easton wheels have to be sent to replace a spoke??

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    Quote Originally Posted by xc71 View Post
    That must be a typo or the older non UST specs.
    This shows the new spec, although only the OD of 24mm, but I've seen the spec of 21mm for the ID.
    Enve 26 XC UST Tubeless Rim [Env 26 XC UST Tubeless Rim] : Fairwheel Bikes, Cycling Boutique
    Has anybody verified this?

    Even on Enve's website, it specs 18mm ID and 24mm OD.

  39. #39
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    I have heard people talking about the spoke issue with Easton. The easy solution is to order 10 spokes/nipples from Easton at the time you get the wheels. Cost is about $15 and since it is a standard spoke for both wheels and drive/non drive side pretty simple to keep them with you. Also, these are standard DT straight pull spokes so they can be obtained from a LBS. This is what I did for my Carbon Havens.

    Either way you go it will be a great setup.

  40. #40
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    Apart from the difficulty of getting hold of straight pull spokes and general lack of stock at your nearest LBS, the general problem is that straight pull spokes are harder to tension accurately and yet with a 24 spoke count, you need to be even more accurate than on 32h.

    My LBS wouldn't touch my Roval Traversees for this reason. And other more willing bike shops just sent them back to Specialized. Don't see why Carbon Havens would follow a different rule.
    Don't fight the mountain

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by xc71 View Post
    That must be a typo or the older non UST specs.
    This shows the new spec, although only the OD of 24mm, but I've seen the spec of 21mm for the ID.
    Enve 26 XC UST Tubeless Rim [Env 26 XC UST Tubeless Rim] : Fairwheel Bikes, Cycling Boutique
    The Enve's XC actually weighed and measured here. Internal is about 18.5mm..

    ENVE Composites 29er XC Tubeless Rims – Unboxed & Weighed - Bike Rumor

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by k2rider1964 View Post
    You can get the Easton's for $1700 on ebay. I was hesitant at first but the seller has a 99.7% positive feedback rating from THOUSANDS of buyers, including numerous people that have bought $1800 road wheelsets from him.

    I have Easton Haven aluminum wheels and I did have a different issue than most (brake rotor related...probably even MY fault) but Easton sent me a brand new wheel, total turnaround time of about 11 days. While the Easton's may or may not have an issue at some point, I trust them 110% to back up their product.

    I priced the Enve's with DT240's and was quoted $2500. If I was paying full price for the Easton's, I may indeed go for the Enve's just so I could have the King hubs of my choice. However, for $800 less WITH a 2 year warranty, I'd go Easton. Good luck, you can't go wrong!!
    $1700? Gee, what a bargain. The lighter weight is nice but at the twice the price of a King/Mavic 819 wheelset! These prices are crazy high. And if you buy from this Ebay person, are the wheels covered under warranty? Unless he's an authorized Easton dealer and you've got a receipt, they're not covered.

    I also agree, the weak point is the hubs. Easton is not known for hubs or bearings.

    I know carbon is the latest craze sweeping the industry, but I still think the the price vs. performance ratio is not favorable...for me and my shallow pocket book at least.
    We Ride In God's Country!

  43. #43
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    Use the coupon code "15OFF300" at bikebling.com and get the Easton Haven Carbon for around $1.4K w/warranty unused. Personally I went for the Enve/DT240 combo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dry Side View Post
    Use the coupon code "15OFF300" at bikebling.com and get the Easton Haven Carbon for around $1.4K w/warranty unused. Personally I went for the Enve/DT240 combo.
    Better price. But are the Enve 26" AM rims really $860/rim?! I mean (1) rim?? At least that's what I thought I saw on the Enve website. YIKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!
    We Ride In God's Country!

  45. #45
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    Who pays MSRP for anything? Discounts of 10% - 25% are common. I have used bikebling, hammerhead, universal cycles, etc and never paid MSRP. Always a discount code or coupon to be found and used.

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    Just ordered a pair of Enve 26" AM 32h rims and the tubeless kit. They currently don't have any pre-made AM rims so it is made to order...looks like 2 weeks out.

    LBS gave me a great discount on it that I couldn't pass up.

  47. #47
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    Hadleys with Enve AM rims

    Estimated costs comes to about $2200. Still super expensive but a much better build than the pre-made Havens with cheapo hubs. But nope, I'm not buying these.
    We Ride In God's Country!

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dry Side View Post
    Who pays MSRP for anything? Discounts of 10% - 25% are common. I have used bikebling, hammerhead, universal cycles, etc and never paid MSRP. Always a discount code or coupon to be found and used.
    Right. So what's the lowest you've seen the Enve AMs?
    We Ride In God's Country!

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    My complete wheelset using Enve AM 26er, CK ISO hubs, and cx-ray...total price is coming out slightly less than $2k.

  50. #50
    COTA member
    Reputation: Dry Side's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    964
    I got a set of Enve XC 29er DT240 cx-ray for $2K delivered. Have not searched for best price for AM, but I am sure I could get similar discount.

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