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  1. #1
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    Engagement on Hope Hubs vs i9

    Everyone has a favorite I know, but I am looking to build my first bike.
    Hope Pro 4s are way cheaper than the i9s.
    I have two buddies that have both, and they are both loud.

    When looking at the specs, it seems the i9s would have that crisp quick engagement where the Hope would not:

    Hope:
    4-pawl, 44 point freehub
    i9:
    6-pawl, 120 point freehub


    what is the engagement on the Hope like? Is there a lot of "play"?

  2. #2
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    360/44 x cog/ring = angle between engagement at the pedals. For 42 cog and 32 ring that's ~11 degrees. For 10 cog with the same ring it's 2.5 degrees.

    11 degrees is about one tenth of your power stroke.

    The same examples with the i9 would be ~ 4 degrees and ~ 1 degree.

    This mainly matters when you're ratcheting over obstacles, which more often happens in lower gears.
    Do the math.

  3. #3
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    I have both....and Kings....and now a set of DT350's I just picked up. My Hope's have been great from a maintenance standpoint but they are nowhere close to the others when it comes to engagement. This is my 1st set of DT350's (they came on the Santa Cruz wheelset I purchased) and they are also quieter than the Hopes. Hope's are great if you're trying to save some $$. Just don't ride a friends bikes with Onyx to compare them :P
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  4. #4
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    Hope's are great for the price. However, I find their noise brutal.

    Kings have the best drive system bar none. stronger than anything else and great engagement. But they are not future proof because they use full width axles. Conversion to different standards is either impossible or very expensive.

    White industries CLD or XMR are jewel-like in their quality, have a nice low volume buzz, 48pt engagement and they spin like nothing else I've ever had.

  5. #5
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    Haven't ridden Hope hubs but I9 hub engagement is outstanding. So is the noise they make. Couldn't stand it so I'm replacing my Ibis 942 hubs with DT Swiss 240 hubs with the 54-tooth ratchet.
    You can't buy happiness. But you can buy a bike. And that's pretty close.

  6. #6
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    I rode the DT Swiss with a 36 ratchet and the i9 BC360. I went with the i9. I could notice a difference even on normal pedaling. I coast a lot, even up hill, and having the instant power is very nice. I also love the noise. Its like an angry bee

  7. #7
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    I rode kings and only kings forever. Ended up with a set of 36T DT's this year and honestly, I don't notice a difference with half the engagement points.

    Hopes are bomb proof, so are kings, and DT's.

    Never used I9's, but I am sure they are too.

    Buy whats cheap, it really doesn't matter.
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  8. #8
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    I bought my hopes in the beginning of summer. They now have crunchy bearings. All 4. Not thrilled about that. SKF bearings are in the mail, but that seems premature.

    I wish I just bought a white industries hub. Nicer than anything, better bearings than hope or i9... Probably nicer bearings than anything short of king.
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  9. #9
    since 4/10/2009
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    Where do you folks buy skf bearings? I looked at putting those in my Hopes the last time I serviced them (only one or two of the bearings were rough, but I did them all anyway), and the cost was SIGNIFICANTLY more than the Enduro bearings I wound up with. As in, more than double the cost. Nope.

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by lardo5150 View Post
    Everyone has a favorite I know, but I am looking to build my first bike.
    Hope Pro 4s are way cheaper than the i9s.
    I have two buddies that have both, and they are both loud.

    When looking at the specs, it seems the i9s would have that crisp quick engagement where the Hope would not:

    Hope:
    4-pawl, 44 point freehub
    i9:
    6-pawl, 120 point freehub


    what is the engagement on the Hope like? Is there a lot of "play"?
    Building your first bike you won’t notice any play, hopes are great, easy to rebuild ,not too expensive and really well made.

    There are nicer hubs but hopes are really good hubs. Not a bad place to save some $$ on a build.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    Where do you folks buy skf bearings? I looked at putting those in my Hopes the last time I serviced them (only one or two of the bearings were rough, but I did them all anyway), and the cost was SIGNIFICANTLY more than the Enduro bearings I wound up with. As in, more than double the cost. Nope.

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk
    Amazon, and yup, about double the price. I think they're about twice as good though!
    WTB: Small aluminum hardtail 26 or 27.5 frame. Pm me!

  12. #12
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    Add me to the 'my Hopes are less than a year old and the bearings are already rough' list. Front wheel is, at least. I can only feel it when I spin the wheel off the bike; no noticeable drag yet, but very notchy.

    Rear hub engagement is pretty bog-standard 'acceptable.'

  13. #13
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    I've been running I9 torch hubs for a few years. The bearings do no last for me either. I started getting the hybrid ceramic bearings from www.bocabearings.com. The seals are not as good, but they roll very smooth with little drag. I just replace them every 6 months or so, depending on how much rain we get.

  14. #14
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    I9 has upped the spec on their bearings I think in the last year or two. I’ve had probably 9-10 sets of their hubs since 2006, still have 4 sets 28h and 32h hubs including one pillar C system set. I have only re-built 2 sets of hubs in that time because of worn/ bad bearings.

    They’re great hubs. Very quick engagement well designed and built. The best way to quiet them some is by using a mix of Dumonde free hub oil and Super Lube grease. The grease oil mix takes the harshness out of the click and tones them down.

  15. #15
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    Have ridden both and vastly prefer i9s, if ever have issues with them USA company and you can call someone and they will help.

    I like lots of engagement, but it really doesnt make you a better a rider. Really depends what you ride now and what you will notice based on your terrain and riding style.

    In general though a lot of options listed here and you can't really go wrong. Hubs are so variable sometimes they last near forever with very little maintainence (not that you should do that). Other times after a year need bearing.
    XC, Road, XXC, Endurance, Mtn, All-Mtn, Cross, Gravel, just go have fun on 2 wheels!

  16. #16
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    I love a quick engaging hub (had a Hadley on my previous bike), but as long as they are under 10 degrees, I don't really notice it that much with how I ride. I have had good luck with Hope hubs and currently run them on two wheelsets. Got to say the buzz gets old though. I built up another set of rims with some SRAM 900 hubs earlier this year. They have been surprisingly good. Got both hubs for under $200 and the engagement is better than the Hopes. Time will tell if they are as maintenance free, but so far, so good. Just another option.

  17. #17
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    SRAM makes good hubs. They’re not as blingy as others but they’re solid designs and construction. I have a predictive steering hub on one of my front wheels for my RS-1 and it’s a very nice hub smooth spinning and durable so far almost 3 years later.

  18. #18
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    I like Hope hubs, I hate Hope bearings.
    I like turtles

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by manitou2200 View Post
    SRAM makes good hubs. They’re not as blingy as others but they’re solid designs and construction. I have a predictive steering hub on one of my front wheels for my RS-1 and it’s a very nice hub smooth spinning and durable so far almost 3 years later.
    My Santa Cruz came with SRAM hubs and I kinda assumed they would suck and I would break them. 2000 miles later, they're still going strong. I upgraded to Hope hubs but I'll certainly still keep the SRAMs on my back up wheelset.

    I'm using Hope hubs on 3 of my 4 bikes. They're the best hubs out there if you don't want to drop huge money. Engagement is perfect for me, I love the nice loud "click," also never had any bearing issues - I just remove the freehub and clean, re-grease once or twice a year. I've got one set that has been rolling perfectly for 4-5 years now.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by manitou2200 View Post
    SRAM makes good hubs. They’re not as blingy as others but they’re solid designs and construction. I have a predictive steering hub on one of my front wheels for my RS-1 and it’s a very nice hub smooth spinning and durable so far almost 3 years later.
    I upgraded from BHS to SRAM 900 when I made the switch to boost frame and fork. I have over a thousand miles on mine as well, and theyve proven absolutely flawless. I mash hard as hell, and I dont have any sighs of gouging or flex of any kind. Theyve never skipped a beat. I was a little wary of the 4 pawl design (only two engaged at a time), but I've since decided four large pawls beats six smaller pawls any day. I know its not part of the OPs question, but for anyone who wants a solid hub at a cheap price, and doesnt need bling nor having the very peak of technology, these things work great.

  21. #21
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    I have a rear Hadley hub that I bought used. I replaced the factory bearings about 18 months ago. I'm a clyde, and I've beat on it and ratcheted it pretty good, and thus far no issues with bearings. I don't ride in the wet very much though.

    My only complaint is that there is not a set-screw to hold the bearing preload. Mine was tightening up over time causing chain-suck. 3 layers of teflon tape on the axle threads did not stop it. A generous amount of red locktite did - no issues since. Maybe I'm doing something wrong or there is a better way. Used hub I think from around 2012, so maybe newer ones are different.

    72 POE is 5 degrees, so even though moar POE is better, that's way into diminishing returns IMO.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikehopper View Post
    I've been running I9 torch hubs for a few years. The bearings do no last for me either. I started getting the hybrid ceramic bearings from www.bocabearings.com. The seals are not as good, but they roll very smooth with little drag. I just replace them every 6 months or so, depending on how much rain we get.
    Can somebody tell me what bearings I need for Hope Pro 4's? That site only lists Pro 2's, and Hope only seems to give me their own P/N; not the dimensions.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by phuchmileif View Post
    Can somebody tell me what bearings I need for Hope Pro 4's? That site only lists Pro 2's, and Hope only seems to give me their own P/N; not the dimensions.
    17x30x7. I think they're the same Pro 2 or 4.
    I like turtles

  24. #24
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    Hope are obviously cheaper, but there is nothing wrong with them. I built a set in 2009 that are still going strong....original bearings. I did burn up a set of pawl/springs.

    Just built up a set of Pro 4's for my wife's Tallboy 3.

    I have no experience with I9.

    Ran DT 240's for a decade...never burned up a bearing.

    Currently have King's on the SS.

    Buy the hubs you want.....don't worry so much about engagement. For the majority of riders, they won't be able to tell the difference.
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  25. #25
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    Look at the exploded view for Pro 4 for the bearing sizes:

    Front - https://www.hopetech.com/product-doc...ro-4-front-hub

    Rear - https://www.hopetech.com/product-doc...pro-4-rear-hub

  26. #26
    since 4/10/2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by HEMIjer View Post
    Have ridden both and vastly prefer i9s, if ever have issues with them USA company and you can call someone and they will help.
    .
    Their factory is also abt 10min from my house. They are high on my list for my next build. Not sure if I want to build my first set of wheels on some of their Classic hubs or get a system wheelset yet.

    As for engagement, I definitely notice it, but not all the time. If I am just riding, I really don't. I have Shimano M529 hubs on my touring bike and the low engagement on those would be irritating to me on a mtb. Engagement on Hopes is solid. A good happy medium. My wife has some i9 hubs and they are noticeably better than my Hopes, though I'd only REALLY make use of that a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the time if I am going to be honest.

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  27. #27
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    I have both Hope and I9.

    I don't notice engagement. Even technical stuff, any small engagement difference really isn't a big deal. Adjusting to any small amount of engagement is such a minor and easily adaptable thing.

  28. #28
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    I did not mean to sound down on I9's. There "system wheelset" is the best I have ever owned. Lots of miles, and never needed trued or tensioned.

    It may just be the cartridge bearing. The seals just don't do the job.

    Recently purchased a King/raceface carbon wheelset, only after the lbs talked me into it. I would put my I9 torch/enduro wheelset up against them in a heartbeat.

  29. #29
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    It’s a toss up between Hopes and I9s for me as well...

    As for the noise, they are all quiet if you keep pedaling...
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