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  1. #1
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    DT Swiss Super Comp vs Sapim D-Light

    For my new wheelset (ZTR Arch EX 29 / DT Swiss 240S) I'm doubting between two spoke types :

    DT Swiss Super Competition : 1.8 - 1.7 - 2.0
    Strength on middle section : 1200 N/mm˛

    Sapim D-Light : 2.0 - 1.65 - 2.0
    Strength on middle section: 1300 N/mm2

    The Sapim's use 2.0mm nipples = standard, and have a higher tensile strength..

    1) My wheelbuilder can get both, but delivery time differs quite a lot - what would be the best choice?

    2) He also says that a 6-bolt hub results in a stiffer wheelbuild when compared to a centerlock hub, due to the larger flange diameter.

  2. #2
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    I would rather get the Comps instead of the super comps because they use a stronger 2.0mm spoke nipple. Between the spokes, there is not a lot of difference. The middle section strength doesn't matter that much because the spoke tensions don't get near that range. I might even go for the "weaker" DT's because it might translate into more toughness.

    The larger flange diameter won't make a stiffer wheel. A wider flange spacing will.

    Also, this is totally unsolicited commentary, but dammit, why do people keep buying Stans rims, and then a few weeks later they will start a thread about how they can't get their tubeless tires mounted. Buy rims that have a UST spec bead seat like WTB i23/i19, Bontrager, Pacenti, etc.

  3. #3
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    OP-
    Forget the SuperComps. Get the Sapim's or Wheelsmith DB14s.
    Also, the tensile strength is normalized (per mm). If you adjust for the area the differential goes down.


    Quote Originally Posted by beanbag View Post
    Buy rims that have a UST spec bead seat like WTB i23/i19, Bontrager, Pacenti, etc.
    Where did you hear Pacenti's rims are UST-spec? That's not correct. He just calls them tubeless. Some call them "tubeless friendly."
    Oh... and people buy Stan's rims because they work.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanbag View Post
    I Also, this is totally unsolicited commentary...
    Why even post it then?

    I have never had a problem mounting any of my tires to any of my stans rims and they're all non-tubeless tires. I mount mine up just fine with my floor pump.

    Ironically, my wife has a couple sets of crossmax wheels and these are the only wheels that I've had difficulty mounting tires onto.

    To the OP... You really can't go wrong with either of those spokes. I've got three 29r wheelsets that are similar to what you're looking at.
    1) 190 centerlocks/crest/cx-ray
    2) 240 centerlocks/355/revolution
    3) king/arch(original)/competition

    Of the three, the revolutions are the only ones that are flexier than i would like. I wont use those spokes on a 29er wheel again. The kings are very stiff and the 190s are a nice mix of light and stiff.

    Several of my friends are running sapim lasers and/or supercomps with both 240 and king hubs and there have been no complaints about either spoke. We all get our wheels built by the same guy, at the same shop, so the comparison is pretty controlled.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    Oh... and people buy Stan's rims because they work.
    Sure. When they work, they work. When they don't work, you start a thread on MTBR.

    Quote Originally Posted by BShow View Post

    I have never had a problem mounting any of my tires to any of my stans rims and they're all non-tubeless tires. I mount mine up just fine with my floor pump.
    I didn't say anything about running NON-tubeless tires on Stan's rim, now did I?

  6. #6
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    So I called Pacenti and learned a few things:
    They aim right for the 559 number.
    Their bead shelf doesn't have that little ridge. The claim is that this ridge makes tires extra hard to get on. I'm not sure if this negatively affects the tire's ability to to resist burps or unseating.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanbag View Post
    So I called Pacenti and learned a few things:
    They aim right for the 559 number.
    Their bead shelf doesn't have that little ridge. The claim is that this ridge makes tires extra hard to get on. I'm not sure if this negatively affects the tire's ability to to resist burps or unseating.
    So... it's a standard ISO rim and they just call it tubeless? That's fantastic. Way to go, Pacenti.

    I guess the proof is in the pudding, and there are at least a handful of very ardent supporters, but these rims have an awful lot to live up to if they are, compared to Stan's rims, wider, lighter, eyeleted, stiffer, stronger, AND tubeless (albeit some new and unproven "standard").

    Sounds too good to be true to me. Something has to give. The profile looks an awful lot like Salsa's rims... nothing special.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanbag View Post
    I would rather get the Comps instead of the super comps because they use a stronger 2.0mm spoke nipple.
    Actually the 1.8mm nipple is stronger. This is part of the reason that DT made the super comps. Both the 2.0mm and 1.8mm alloy nipple use the same outside size (use the same spoke wrench). The 1.8mm has a smaller hole drilled in it so it therefor has thicker walls making it stronger.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by tedsti View Post
    Actually the 1.8mm nipple is stronger. This is part of the reason that DT made the super comps. Both the 2.0mm and 1.8mm alloy nipple use the same outside size (use the same spoke wrench). The 1.8mm has a smaller hole drilled in it so it therefor has thicker walls making it stronger.
    What's important is the interface, so the nipple itself might be stronger, but the threads are smaller in diameter and therefore have higher stress. The spoke is also thinner, and steel has a higher unit strength than aluminum. I personally have replaced SuperComps broken at the nipple probably 10:1 over any other spoke.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  10. #10
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    The wheelbuilder suggested to use a mix of Sapim D-Light and Sapim Laser spokes. Should result in a lighter, longer lasting wheel. I have seen a number of the better wheel builders mixing spokes, so gave it a go.

  11. #11
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    My build with ArchEX 29 and Supercomp spokes to ZTR front DT rear hubs has been running over a tech rocky rooty circuit for two months in heavy use. I used Wheelsmith nipples for a little added interface and Stan's nipple washers to allow for a bit higher spoke tension. Other than one nipple(drive rear) broken at the collar there have not been any issues Stans tech document on rim options now lists the spoke tension for these rims as 100 up from 90KpF.

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