Results 1 to 95 of 95
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sethd513's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    248

    Dt Swiss star ratchet upgrade

    So Iím getting a wheelset with the 350 hubs. I always assumed these will be better then my bontrager elite hubs but now Iím assuming the engagement will be a little more sloppy with this new hub in stock formation. I canít get an answer from Trek but online forums are saying duster elite hub that Iím referencing has 15* of engagement. The Dt Swiss stock with 18t is 20*. Iím feeling like Iím taking a step backwards even though Iím aware the overall hub is a better platform.

    Do you guys know anything about the bontrager hub in reference to its engagement?

    36t or 54t? 36 is stronger? 54 is better on the pedals? Any info would be great.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: One Pivot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    7,650
    Do you break a lot of hubs? If you're a destroyer, I think id shy away from the 54t ratchets. Some have chipped the teeth. Otherwise, go for it.

    If you have the hub, count the clicks in a full rotation and divide it by 360. Or just go by clicks, its the most commonly used way to compare hub engagement.

    Id plan on upgrading. 18t is pretty sloppy. Not that it'll help your riding, or help you clear anything, or really make any tangible difference, but the 36 or 54t ratchets feel nicer. I like nicer stuff.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sethd513's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    248
    I keep blowing the bearings out of my hubs. No metal damage though that I know of. Would really like the 54 as I can only assume being less sloppy would help with more finesse leading to less abuse. But i donít know if thatís true.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: RS VR6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    4,390
    I've got both the 36 and 54 in different wheels. To me...I don't find a huge difference. I'd double the the ratchets that your wheel comes with. Both sets of mine came with 36T's.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    193
    I have a modded 240s. Very smooth and surprisingly quiet. The 54 while having smaller teeth, there are 18 more of them than the 36. Either way, the hubs seem to be one of the most reliable ones to buy. Engagement is almost instant and seems to be a great hub you can service without tools if you are not removing the bearings. I am pleased, very pleased. If you are updating from 18, go for the 54 as I believe they are the same cost as the 36. It seems some come with 36.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    249
    I have had King and I9 in the past and I wasn't happy with the 18t ratchet. I bought the first reasonably priced kit I could find, naturally a 36t, and have been very happy with it ever since.

  7. #7
    Barely in control
    Reputation: Schulze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    1,620
    Quote Originally Posted by sethd513 View Post
    I keep blowing the bearings out of my hubs. No metal damage though that I know of. Would really like the 54 as I can only assume being less sloppy would help with more finesse leading to less abuse. But i donít know if thatís true.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Syntace's opinion is that too high side load is what kills bearings - whether preload or axle load or both.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    19
    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post
    I've got both the 36 and 54 in different wheels. To me...I don't find a huge difference. I'd double the the ratchets that your wheel comes with. Both sets of mine came with 36T's.
    Agree 100% here. Have both the 36t and 54t and can't tell the difference other than the 54t being slightly louder.

    Durability wise, think the nod goes to 36t. Been riding mine for several seasons and i can see some wear on the 54t (some rounding of the teeth) but none on the 36t (which i have been using longer).

    I clean and lube every 3 - 6 months depending on how much i ride.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sethd513's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    248
    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    Syntace's opinion is that too high side load is what kills bearings - whether preload or axle load or both.
    I have a shop do the preload on the hubs so Iím 99% sure itís not that. I have noticed after falls if the wheel goes out of true it the bearings get grindy. Iím always sure not to over tighten the thru axle also.

    When i first got into mountian biking I bought a brand new xcal 9. I rode with some people for the first time then that I ride regularly with now, but came out with a blown up hub and bad wheel wobble. Needed a new hub according to them. Now I can only assume it was the bearings. I have a feeling that mustang elite wheel uses the same hub as the duster elite. Now fast forward to a 160mm fs bike that I actually know how to ride.

    The wheels are great for my wife because she rides less and not as hard. But Iím having nothing but problems with the duster hubs. It seems the Dt Swiss not requiring preload is a much better set up allowing it to take more abuse riding wise.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  10. #10
    psycho cyclo addict
    Reputation: edubfromktown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    2,490
    Quote Originally Posted by sethd513 View Post
    I keep blowing the bearings out of my hubs. No metal damage though that I know of. Would really like the 54 as I can only assume being less sloppy would help with more finesse leading to less abuse. But i donít know if thatís true.
    One item to note with DT Swiss hubs- the bearings sit against the inside of the chain stay (unlike some other brands that have a solid axle all the way through) so you definitely do not want to over-tighten the axle when installing your wheels.

    18's aren't all that bad and the most durable of the lot for sure... you may want to try riding them first and decide for yourself instead of listening to a bunch of POE obsessed MTBR posters

    I have DT's with 18, 36 and 54 along with Chris King and other hubs. The wide range of engagement I have across various hub brands has little impact on my ability to climb better than most of my riding cronies on single speed and geared MTB's.
    【ツ】 eDub 【ツ】

  11. #11
    Barely in control
    Reputation: Schulze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    1,620
    Ok, I didn't read your original post carefully enough. You're killing Bontrager bearings, not DT bearings.

  12. #12
    Mr. Buck E. Fikes
    Reputation: Oh My Sack!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    3,392
    Those that can't tell the difference between 36 and 54, what terrain do you ride....flat? In my hilly, chunky terrain, there is an enormous difference betweem 36 and 54. And an 18?!! I wouldn't even consider that on any of my bikes. I'd definitely go with 54 Star, OP. In tech terrain where backpedalling short strokes to power over obstacles and whatnot is key, anything less then the 44 of a Hope is too few POE's in my opine.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sethd513's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    248
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Those that can't tell the difference between 36 and 54, what terrain do you ride....flat? In my hilly, chunky terrain, there is an enormous difference betweem 36 and 54. And an 18?!! I wouldn't even consider that on any of my bikes. I'd definitely go with 54 Star, OP. In tech terrain where backpedalling short strokes to power over obstacles and whatnot is key, anything less then the 44 of a Hope is too few POE's in my opine.
    Yea thatís kinda what I was thinking.

    Why are the 54s wearing out faster? Is it the smaller teeth? Are people not servicing them frequently enough?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  14. #14
    Formerly of Kent
    Reputation: Le Duke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    9,731
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Those that can't tell the difference between 36 and 54, what terrain do you ride....flat? In my hilly, chunky terrain, there is an enormous difference betweem 36 and 54. And an 18?!! I wouldn't even consider that on any of my bikes. I'd definitely go with 54 Star, OP. In tech terrain where backpedalling short strokes to power over obstacles and whatnot is key, anything less then the 44 of a Hope is too few POE's in my opine.
    Iíd disagree.

    Iíve done ďtechnicalĒ climbs with 18t, 36t and 54t. Makes no difference in my ability to get up them. Nor any difference in speed.

    As a reference, Hymasa in Moab. The 54t didnít change anything for me. Was actually very slightly slower at the same wattage.

    Sold the 54t.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Death from Below.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sethd513's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    248
    My gut is saying if anything is upgraded the 36 tooth would be a happy medium.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    350
    One thing is sure, you wonít be blowing up DT hubs! For the ratchet that depends on your terrain and riding style. If you backpedal frequently on tech sections or go from coasting to 100% blasting out of corners then a 54T would be better than the 18T certainly.
    I just switched to DT hubs (first time) recently solely for their reliability and longevity. I was a little concerned about the 54T upgrade but did it anyway and am glad I did. If the teeth get a little too worn on the ratchet after a few seasons so be it, Iíll replace the ratchet. But, Iím guessing itíll be fine as long as I check it for contaminants every so often. My LBS swears I wonít break the 54T, and Iím a Clyde at 250 who puts the power down climbing nasty hills with a 32/50 gear.

  17. #17
    Nothing seems to kill me
    Reputation: CUP-TON's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    659
    I have been on a 240 w/ 54t for 2 seasons and have had no issues. And service is easier than any hub I have had. I service the star ratchet about once a month ( I ride a lot) and always use the DT Swiss pink grease. It is very easy to service. It takes about 5 minutes to clean and regrease. You do not have to remove the cassette from the carrier to service it. Just remove the wheel, pull the cassette straight off and the star ratchet is exposed. Clean, regrease, reinstall springs and ratchets in order and push back on. No tools required.
    I choose to live and to lie..kill and to give and to die..learn and love and to do what it takes to step through. MJK

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: One Pivot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    7,650
    I think we're not all on the same page with terminology.

    I can climb technical stuff with an 18t ratchet. If I had a higher engagement hub, I would have to put less effort into timing the climb, so its easier. However, because it takes the same amount of energy to make the climb, regardless of engagement, its not easier.

    I think many people focus on energy expenditure. Im not in pro shape, Im concerned about energy lost. A 18, 24, 120, infinity etc engagement hub will never save me energy, so one will never make climbs easier in that sense. I acknowledge that, while also acknowledging that its easier to time a climb with more poe. Being easier to time a climb with more poe doesnt increase my chances of clearing the technical feature either, but its one less factor I have to consider.

    I think that's the root argument. No one (with any sense) is saying you'll be a better rider with more engagement, but no one is saying it'll be a detriment either.

    I can pay $35 for a SLX hub with 32 points. For me, it just becomes hard to swallow paying $200 for a hub with 18 points. If you habitually destroy every hub you touch, that money is probably well spent on the reliability of a DT hub.

  19. #19
    Short-Change-Hero
    Reputation: gregnash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    5,449
    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    I can pay $35 for a SLX hub with 32 points. For me, it just becomes hard to swallow paying $200 for a hub with 18 points. If you habitually destroy every hub you touch, that money is probably well spent on the reliability of a DT hub.
    I think this is the main point here... Just like anything else in the world you pay more for quality/reliability. If you are torching hubs on a constant basis, then it MAY BE worthwhile to look at something more expensive as the quality MAY increase. The increase of price IS NOT a guarantee for quality but going with something that is a known quality hub should be.

    Also, back to the OP, at one point you were saying that you bought your last new bike and almost instantly bent the rim and destroyed the hub. At which point your friends pointed out you needed a stronger hub. Are you friends wheelbuilders? If not then take their information/recommendations with a grain of salt. I am about your same size and have only ever bent one rim and that was because of a bad line, into a rut and a crash afterwards, nothing to do with the hub. I ride hard, ride low pressures and charge rockgardens and even the rear wheel that I BUILT last year has had zero issues, however I took my time, followed explicit instructions and did things properly. While not completely unrelated, they are somewhat unrelated in your case unless your wheel was not properly seated in your dropouts.

    Talk with a good, well-known wheelbuilder near you and see what they recommend, because at this point you are speculating and throwing money at the wheel/hub when the root cause could be something completely different.

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sethd513's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    248
    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    I think this is the main point here... Just like anything else in the world you pay more for quality/reliability. If you are torching hubs on a constant basis, then it MAY BE worthwhile to look at something more expensive as the quality MAY increase. The increase of price IS NOT a guarantee for quality but going with something that is a known quality hub should be.

    Also, back to the OP, at one point you were saying that you bought your last new bike and almost instantly bent the rim and destroyed the hub. At which point your friends pointed out you needed a stronger hub. Are you friends wheelbuilders? If not then take their information/recommendations with a grain of salt. I am about your same size and have only ever bent one rim and that was because of a bad line, into a rut and a crash afterwards, nothing to do with the hub. I ride hard, ride low pressures and charge rockgardens and even the rear wheel that I BUILT last year has had zero issues, however I took my time, followed explicit instructions and did things properly. While not completely unrelated, they are somewhat unrelated in your case unless your wheel was not properly seated in your dropouts.

    Talk with a good, well-known wheelbuilder near you and see what they recommend, because at this point you are speculating and throwing money at the wheel/hub when the root cause could be something completely different.
    The issue with the first wheel that I destroyed was a bad line. No one suggested anything. Learnin On a hardtail was the best thing I could ever of Done. Now that Iím on a fs and clipless I do abuse my bike more. Finding the better line is always the best option but sometimes you fall off. My mechanic has been building wheels as long as Iíve been around. He said the bonti hubs are finicky. I didnít get into depth about this but I do feel itís a mechanical issue at the root. Maybe not completely as there are to many variables but it should help greatly.

    The bonti hubs are 15-17.1* of engagement. I think Iím going to have to go with the 54tooth and clean regularly as I can feel the difference between both hubs. I think 6.6 degrees will be a big benefit


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  21. #21
    This place needs an enema
    Reputation: mikesee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    12,108
    Quote Originally Posted by edubfromktown View Post
    One item to note with DT Swiss hubs- the bearings sit against the inside of the chain stay (unlike some other brands that have a solid axle all the way through)

    Eh? There are end caps between the bearings and the frame. Am I misunderstanding you?

  22. #22
    This place needs an enema
    Reputation: mikesee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    12,108
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Those that can't tell the difference between 36 and 54, what terrain do you ride....flat? In my hilly, chunky terrain, there is an enormous difference betweem 36 and 54. And an 18?!! I wouldn't even consider that on any of my bikes. I'd definitely go with 54 Star, OP. In tech terrain where backpedalling short strokes to power over obstacles and whatnot is key, anything less then the 44 of a Hope is too few POE's in my opine.

    You're welcome to your opinion as long as you don't pass it off as fact.

    My opinion is that 18t is plenty for the techiest, chunkiest terrain on the planet.

    I've experimented with 36, 54, 120, and Onyx/instant. They all *feel* different and make different amounts of noise, but they don't make a hill of beans worth of difference in whether you clean anything or not. That comes down to the rider, skill, and sometimes luck -- not what's inside your rear hub.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    19
    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    You're welcome to your opinion as long as you don't pass it off as fact.

    My opinion is that 18t is plenty for the techiest, chunkiest terrain on the planet.

    I've experimented with 36, 54, 120, and Onyx/instant. They all *feel* different and make different amounts of noise, but they don't make a hill of beans worth of difference in whether you clean anything or not. That comes down to the rider, skill, and sometimes luck -- not what's inside your rear hub.
    ^^^
    Truth

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,288
    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    You're welcome to your opinion as long as you don't pass it off as fact.

    My opinion is that 18t is plenty for the techiest, chunkiest terrain on the planet.

    I've experimented with 36, 54, 120, and Onyx/instant. They all *feel* different and make different amounts of noise, but they don't make a hill of beans worth of difference in whether you clean anything or not. That comes down to the rider, skill, and sometimes luck -- not what's inside your rear hub.
    As someone who regularly rides some of the techiest, chunkiest terrain on the planet, i respectfully disagree. Having to "ratchet" through some technical climbs can be difficult on the 18t setup, and lead to pedal strikes that lead to failure. You are talking about a full 20* of crank arm rotation for engagement, worst case. That's not insignificant! I never had a complaint about the 36t, however.


    Anyways, not sure i should give away my secrets, but I recently upgraded my DT 240's from a Shimano driver with 18t ratchets to a SRAM driver with 54t ratchets for ~$60. I just bought the DT350 w/ 54t SRAM driver that's on ebay for $180, swapped out the driver and ratchets, and put the leftover parts back up on ebay for $120.

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation: OwenM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    1,331
    I have both, prefer the 54T and wouldn't mind even more. I ride singlespeed on low speed trails, which can be really challenging. Timing and sneaking in partial pedal strokes when/wherever(ratcheting) is a regular thing, plus I spend the majority of my time out of the saddle, all of which probably gives me a greater appreciation for higher POE. Could be some P321 or Onyx hubs in my future, but I'm pretty happy with the DT350s at 54T.

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MSU Alum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,160
    Wheels came with 350's and 18 tooth, got 54, love them, no problems.
    I felt as though I could "work around" 18 tooth, by adapting my riding style but the 54 tooth really is better.
    I'm now on i9 hubs....love them too.

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Noclutch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    1,141
    Quote Originally Posted by edubfromktown View Post
    One item to note with DT Swiss hubs- the bearings sit against the inside of the chain stay (unlike some other brands that have a solid axle all the way through) so you definitely do not want to over-tighten the axle when installing your wheels.
    So how much torque is ideal on a DT with TA?


    Sent from my iFern using Tapatalk while not riding, dammit!

  28. #28
    This place needs an enema
    Reputation: mikesee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    12,108
    Quote Originally Posted by Porch View Post
    As someone who regularly rides some of the techiest, chunkiest terrain on the planet, i respectfully disagree. Having to "ratchet" through some technical climbs can be difficult on the 18t setup, and lead to pedal strikes that lead to failure. You are talking about a full 20* of crank arm rotation for engagement, worst case. That's not insignificant!

    I don't know where you live/ride, nor do I think it really matters. I'd wager we ride similar terrain. And I think the rider is way, way, way more important than any perceived engagement benefit.

    Not remotely saying you don't get to have your preferences -- just saying that you can ratchet all you want and clean the techiest stuff anywhere with 18t ratchets.

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation: One Pivot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    7,650
    Its not a full 20 degrees. Thats the thing. Its up to 20 degrees max, minimum 0 degrees.

    That ultra hard technical section that you rarely climb, someone here can clean that on a 18t hub consistently. Not me, but someone I dont think the factor is the hub itself ever.

    Its not insignificant, but its not make or break either... 18t does suck and DT should toss them for stock 36's on everything with a star ratchet.

  30. #30
    Formerly of Kent
    Reputation: Le Duke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    9,731
    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Its not a full 20 degrees. Thats the thing. Its up to 20 degrees max, minimum 0 degrees.

    That ultra hard technical section that you rarely climb, someone here can clean that on a 18t hub consistently. Not me, but someone I dont think the factor is the hub itself ever.

    Its not insignificant, but its not make or break either... 18t does suck and DT should toss them for stock 36's on everything with a star ratchet.
    Yep. Everything is relative, too.

    I consider climbing, particularly in semi-technical terrain, one of my strengths. In another thread, someone listed a particular climb in Moab as an example of an area where their new long travel 29er really performed well.

    Personally, I consider that climb pretty mellow from both a technical challenge and grade perspective. I've gone up it on a hard tail, could definitely do it on a CX bike and maybe even a road bike, too. And, I don't mean just picking my way up it, I mean doing it at a very fast clip. I don't need massive amounts of suspension or fancy million POE hubs to make it up a grippy, occasionally lumpy 5% grade rock face. Some people do, and that's fine, but obviously there are exceptions to this imagined requirement for certain equipment to make it up technical bits.

    Also, depending on your gearing, it could be much greater or smaller than 20 degrees. Say I'm using a 30t chainring and a 10-42 cassette with a stock 18t star ratchet. In the 10t, I'd have 6.6 degrees of rotation, max, before engagement. In the 42t, I'd have 28 degrees, max.
    Death from Below.

  31. #31
    powered by peanut butter.
    Reputation: heartland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    804
    I also didn't notice a giant difference between 18 and 54 tooth... but the 54 makes me feel fancy, and I like feeling fancy, so... Į\_(ツ)_/Į
    "Never trust a man in a blue trench coat. Never drive a car when you're dead." -- Tom Waits

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation: LargeMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    478
    I actually prefer the 18, the others too draggy IMO.

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation: One Pivot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    7,650
    Quote Originally Posted by heartland View Post
    I also didn't notice a giant difference between 18 and 54 tooth... but the 54 makes me feel fancy, and I like feeling fancy, so... Į\_(ツ)_/Į
    Seriously, thats the best way to look at it, and I totally agree.

    This is my hobby and passion! Yeah, I coughed up cash for the nicer stuff, just because! Ill pay more for green stuff too.

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    419
    I had a novatec hub that was garbage from the moment it came on my new bike, I replaced with dt 350, mainly because they are well known to last, once I got it on there and rode it a bit I went ahead with a 54t, Only differences I notice is from very slow to spinning up it feels better to me, may be my brain making me thing that. From a practical standpoint my favorite thing about this hub is how easy it is to get to the star ratchet, its so much easier than any other hubs ive come across, which also means its more likely that ill keep up on the maintenance. Overall im really impressed with DT hubs and plan to use them from here on out.

  35. #35
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    29,608
    Just rode up Made in the Shade, Highline, Chicken Pt, the Hogs, etc. Climbing doesnít get more technical tha some of these spots. POE had nothing to do with who made the climbs. Power (watts) and endurance did. Easier on a short travel 29er with beefy tires. You donít need 6400 POE to clock the pedals and keep your momentum. You need to be in the right gear with the right body position.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  36. #36
    Formerly of Kent
    Reputation: Le Duke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    9,731
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Just rode up Made in the Shade, Highline, Chicken Pt, the Hogs, etc. Climbing doesnít get more technical tha some of these spots. POE had nothing to do with who made the climbs. Power (watts) and endurance did. Easier on a short travel 29er with beefy tires. You donít need 6400 POE to clock the pedals and keep your momentum. You need to be in the right gear with the right body position.
    Yes, Iíve always found it much easier to clear an obstacle when going 10mph vs. 5mph.

    Momentum, or something. Crazy.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Death from Below.

  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    668
    Quote Originally Posted by LargeMan View Post
    I actually prefer the 18, the others too draggy IMO.
    The higher POE does have more drag, but does a LargeMan really have the ability to feel it?

  38. #38
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    668
    Yes, the great riders can clear almost anything technical regardless of POE, but a higher POE can make a difference in some situations. Don't worry about it if you aren't worried about clearing challenging trail obstacles.
    The backyard trails that I have been riding for decades are loaded with loose and chunky switchbacks. I can tell you from riding various hubs with various POE's over the years that the 54t DT ratchet has enabled me to more regularly clear one switchback in particular. This switchback often requires me to do a trackstand to get around it. I have lost traction many times with low POE hubs of the past trying to quickly get power to the rear wheel during the transition. Also, going from a 175mm to a shorter 170mm crank helped my balance and to speed up the power to the rear wheel. I hate the extra noise that comes with the 54 tooth ratchet less than not clearing a tough trail section.

  39. #39
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,288
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Just rode up Made in the Shade, Highline, Chicken Pt, the Hogs, etc. Climbing doesnít get more technical tha some of these spots. POE had nothing to do with who made the climbs. Power (watts) and endurance did. Easier on a short travel 29er with beefy tires. You donít need 6400 POE to clock the pedals and keep your momentum. You need to be in the right gear with the right body position.
    Right... If you don't have the endurance or power to make a climb, it doesn't matter how many POE you have.

    But what if you have the power and the endurance, but ~26* before engagement? That's an easy pedal strike on some of the really technical stuff.

    Doable, sure. Would I actually recommend someone get 18t engagement? Fawk no, because that's not what I'd want either. For a novice rider that could be the difference between making it and not.

    And if you're wondering I'm top 10 on most technical uphill Strava segments in my area, with more than one KOM (small town, I'll admit).

  40. #40
    Oaktown Honkey on Strava
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    2,716
    I am a big fan of the 18 tooth ratchet. Coming from 2 bikes with Chris King hubs, 72 tooth ring drives (ratchet). My singlespeed bikes need high Points of Engagement. But I always felt Chris King 72 POE on a gear bikes was no advantage. Just bling, and I like those hubs. But the 18 tooth DT Swiss 350 rear hub is super fun and challenging on slightly uphill false flats. Now, Ive been riding bikes over 40 yrs, so I like the challenge of keeping a proper cadence on slight uphill climbs, out of the saddle. Some may not like the challenge.

  41. #41
    Mr. Buck E. Fikes
    Reputation: Oh My Sack!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    3,392
    One could also play 18 holes of golf entirely with a putter, but...

  42. #42
    rock crusher
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    251
    Great discussion going on here for a topic I am currently debating in my head.

    I am now, considering the 54t, or 36t upgrade; I hear concerns over longevity concessions being made vs the stock 18t. Has anyone cryogenically treated their DT star ratchet to improve it's wear properties? Is this worthwhile?

    [Background: Coming from a hardtail and hardtail SS background, I love my King hubs. Now, I am on a squishy bike as well, equipped with DT 240's, and I miss my high POE advantages. Climbing the newer bike is a different beast all together; I am rewarded for staying planted in the saddle and pedaling up hills instead of charging up them. Tech climbing skills have changed... improving I think. Yet, I still miss my higher POE, and for me it is noticeable. I was driven to CK hubs because of penchant for breaking pawls (Shimano, Phil Wood, Novatec, Formula hubs all suffered, but I am a very tall rider, 235#)
    ]

  43. #43
    Magically Delicious
    Reputation: Cleared2land's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    7,235
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    One could also play 18 holes of golf entirely with a putter, but...
    Good point!
    A bad day of cycling is better than a good day at work

    Work Truck - Dassault Falcon 7X

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation: One Pivot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    7,650
    Quote Originally Posted by Pitch View Post
    Great discussion going on here for a topic I am currently debating in my head.

    I am now, considering the 54t, or 36t upgrade; I hear concerns over longevity concessions being made vs the stock 18t. Has anyone cryogenically treated their DT star ratchet to improve it's wear properties? Is this worthwhile?

    [Background: Coming from a hardtail and hardtail SS background, I love my King hubs. Now, I am on a squishy bike as well, equipped with DT 240's, and I miss my high POE advantages. Climbing the newer bike is a different beast all together; I am rewarded for staying planted in the saddle and pedaling up hills instead of charging up them. Tech climbing skills have changed... improving I think. Yet, I still miss my higher POE, and for me it is noticeable. I was driven to CK hubs because of penchant for breaking pawls (Shimano, Phil Wood, Novatec, Formula hubs all suffered, but I am a very tall rider, 235#)
    ]
    They're fully hardened and tempered to what DT swiss has determined to be an appropriate balance of toughness and wear resistance. I dont think you could significantly improve on it.

    If anything, they're sort of too hard. They dont deform, they chip... but usually there is a lack of maintenance tied in there.

    I think you'd be surprised to find that 54t feels a lot like 72t. 18 is pretty slack.

  45. #45
    This place needs an enema
    Reputation: mikesee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    12,108
    Quote Originally Posted by Porch View Post
    But what if you have the power and the endurance, but ~26* before engagement? That's an easy pedal strike on some of the really technical stuff.

    Doable, sure. Would I actually recommend someone get 18t engagement? Fawk no, because that's not what I'd want either. For a novice rider that could be the difference between making it and not.

    I can't fault your logic, but I just don't agree. Technique matters. Horsepower matters. Timing and luck matter. Engagement just doesn't.

  46. #46
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    922
    Don't people care about FEEL anymore? I hear all this talk of whether 54 makes you clear more obstacles, blah, blah. I, for one, can't stand how an 18-tooth ratchet feels, especially after experiencing much better engagement. Feels sloppy like it's a cheap bike. Demo'd a bike recently with a 240 hub with an 18 and couldn't wait to get off of it. And the "clank" when you finally engage? UGH! Why does everything need a performance gain to be of any value?
    You can't buy happiness. But you can buy a bike. And that's pretty close.

  47. #47
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    193
    DT Swiss should sell all their hubs with 36 and 54 as a no cost option. The hubs are already one of the most expensive (240s). I dropped an extra 100+ USD before I even received them. It was an irritant I did not appreciate the stick up but am happy with the result.

  48. #48
    Magically Delicious
    Reputation: Cleared2land's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    7,235
    ^^^^ Perhaps this permits those who who have no problems with the 18t to not have to pay more for something they don't want. While I prefer the 36 or 54 over the 18, not everyone wants or feels the need for a 36 or a 54.
    A bad day of cycling is better than a good day at work

    Work Truck - Dassault Falcon 7X

  49. #49
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    193
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleared2land View Post
    ^^^^ Perhaps this permits those who who have no problems with the 18t to not have to pay more for something they don't want. While I prefer the 36 or 54 over the 18, not everyone wants or feels the need for a 36 or a 54.
    My thought there cannot be much difference in machineing costs between the three ratchet designs. Certainly not 100+ USD so build the best hub you can and sell em that way.

  50. #50
    mtbr member
    Reputation: One Pivot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    7,650
    Let's be real, they could dump the 18t and not charge a cent more, or lose a cent either. They're already all tooled up to machine out 36t ratchets.

    It's weird to sell an 18pt hub in 2018.

  51. #51
    Magically Delicious
    Reputation: Cleared2land's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    7,235
    I will unquestionably agree with both of you. That is from from a consumer perspective.

    I'm sure the only reason for continuing with the 18t as the default hub issued star ratchet is the opportunity to upsell the 36 or 54. That's market opportunity.
    A bad day of cycling is better than a good day at work

    Work Truck - Dassault Falcon 7X

  52. #52
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Noclutch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    1,141
    Ignorance is bliss, and I are that

    Yesterday, I just put the first hour and a half on an 18 pt 350 and had a wonderful ride, albeit a shakedown ride on a new build, AND I am accustomed to a 12pt (?) AC hub for years, and without complaint

  53. #53
    Magically Delicious
    Reputation: Cleared2land's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    7,235
    Someone once told me to never ride any bike better than what you own unless you're ready to upgrade.

    Sound words.
    A bad day of cycling is better than a good day at work

    Work Truck - Dassault Falcon 7X

  54. #54
    Mr. Buck E. Fikes
    Reputation: Oh My Sack!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    3,392
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleared2land View Post
    Someone once told me to never ride any bike better than what you own unless you're ready to upgrade.

    Sound words.
    I have NEVER demo'd a bike from a dealer EVER for that very reason.

  55. #55
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    29,608
    nevermind-wasn't a great example I was going to use for this post. Along the lines of what I was going to say, there are more examples of situations where there are differences between components, but where those significant differences do not lead to a significant difference in how fast, technical, etc., you can ride.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  56. #56
    damned rocks...
    Reputation: Aglo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    1,969
    I have a 240 with a stock 18t ratchet and a 350 with a stock 36t ratchet.
    While riding I don't notice any major difference enough to make me want to upgrade the 18t ratchet, at least not for now, and not for the money they ask.
    But as mentioned the loud CLANK is a little annoying, and the engagement is noticeable slower.

  57. #57
    I am Walt
    Reputation: waltaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    5,357
    Iíve got an Intense Primer with DT 350ís, and after a couple months of riding the 18T, and REALLY noticing the slack (after I9ís and Hope Pro 4ís on my SS), I upgraded to a 36T. Huge, huge difference. Does it make me better or more able to clear stuff? Not necessarily, but it is certainly more enjoyable to ride.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Ride more; post less...

  58. #58
    Mr. Buck E. Fikes
    Reputation: Oh My Sack!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    3,392
    Quote Originally Posted by waltaz View Post
    Iíve got an Intense Primer with DT 350ís, and after a couple months of riding the 18T, and REALLY noticing the slack (after I9ís and Hope Pro 4ís on my SS), I upgraded to a 36T. Huge, huge difference. Does it make me better or more able to clear stuff? Not necessarily, but it is certainly more enjoyable to ride.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Y'up. Once I did higher POE, I couldn't stand going backwards and adjusting. I'm trying to destroy my i40 wheelset on my newest Karate Monkey so I have a reason to build a set with Hopes. Salsa hub seems relatively tough so I'm having fun trying.

  59. #59
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Noclutch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    1,141

    Dt Swiss star ratchet upgrade

    Quote Originally Posted by Cleared2land View Post
    Someone once told me to never ride any bike better than what you own unless you're ready to upgrade.

    Sound words.
    LOL yup. My multiple bike demo weekend did me in 🤣

    I did notice the high POE hubs on the Ripley and Fuel EX, but only like once or twice in an hour long ride.


    Sent from my iFern using Tapatalk while not riding, dammit!

  60. #60
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    372
    For me going from an 18T to a 54T was like riding a different bike. A lot of our trails are crazy rocky that you need to stop pedaling then hit it hard over and over. Faster engagement makes a difference.

  61. #61
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,288
    I rode a buddies bike the other day, he just upgraded his wheelset to some Nobl wheels with Onyx hubs. Those things are saa-weeeet. Anybody who would tell you that your 18t DT hubs are as good as something like that is either blissfully ignorant or trying to sell you something.

  62. #62
    Short-Change-Hero
    Reputation: gregnash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    5,449
    Quote Originally Posted by Porch View Post
    Anybody who would tell you that your 18t DT hubs are as good as something like that is either blissfully ignorant or trying to sell you something.
    Or has a different set of needs and criteria for their bike. There is also a HUGE Price difference between the two. That would be like racing a lightly suped-up Honda Civic against a stock BMW 3 series, yeah both are small, light, compact cars that come in two or four door configuration but their performance, needs, and everything else is completely different.

    I dont think anyone is TRYING to compare outside of the DT lines, what they are comparing is the cost benefit ratio of going from 18t to 54t, and that all comes down to how you use it. I have the 18t and 36t for mine and have used both. While I have noticed the difference in the upgrade but did it cripple me and not allow me to do things that I was able to do prior when I dropped the 18t in from the 36t, no. It just made it a slightly different challenge and approach.

  63. #63
    Formerly of Kent
    Reputation: Le Duke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    9,731

    Dt Swiss star ratchet upgrade

    Quote Originally Posted by Porch View Post
    I rode a buddies bike the other day, he just upgraded his wheelset to some Nobl wheels with Onyx hubs. Those things are saa-weeeet. Anybody who would tell you that your 18t DT hubs are as good as something like that is either blissfully ignorant or trying to sell you something.
    Iím guessing my DT hubs have three times the mileage of any Onyx hub in existence.

    Get at me when you have close to 40,000 miles on any hub. Then it can be ďas goodĒ as a DT.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Death from Below.

  64. #64
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    193
    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Or has a different set of needs and criteria for their bike. There is also a HUGE Price difference between the two. That would be like racing a lightly suped-up Honda Civic against a stock BMW 3 series, yeah both are small, light, compact cars that come in two or four door configuration but their performance, needs, and everything else is completely different.

    I dont think anyone is TRYING to compare outside of the DT lines, what they are comparing is the cost benefit ratio of going from 18t to 54t, and that all comes down to how you use it. I have the 18t and 36t for mine and have used both. While I have noticed the difference in the upgrade but did it cripple me and not allow me to do things that I was able to do prior when I dropped the 18t in from the 36t, no. It just made it a slightly different challenge and approach.
    Yes I agree but as with most upgrades, the difference are usually not dramatic. I try and start with a top line component so I do not feel the need to ďupgradeĒ later. And I really fret over which components to assemble for a new build but when the bike is built, time to ride and ride and ride....what is on the bike usually stays till death.

  65. #65
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,288
    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Or has a different set of needs and criteria for their bike. There is also a HUGE Price difference between the two. That would be like racing a lightly suped-up Honda Civic against a stock BMW 3 series, yeah both are small, light, compact cars that come in two or four door configuration but their performance, needs, and everything else is completely different.
    Have you priced 240s hubs lately? Fanatik's wheel builder prices the 240s at $459 vs. the Onyx at $445.

    Both of my DT's came with my wheelsets and i definitely didn't pay full price for them...and to be fair, the DT's have been dead-reliable for me. But they have some major drawbacks, mainly POE.

  66. #66
    Formerly of Kent
    Reputation: Le Duke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    9,731
    Quote Originally Posted by Porch View Post
    Have you priced 240s hubs lately? Fanatik's wheel builder prices the 240s at $459 vs. the Onyx at $445.

    Both of my DT's came with my wheelsets and i definitely didn't pay full price for them...and to be fair, the DT's have been dead-reliable for me. But they have some major drawbacks, mainly POE.
    Try shopping around. If Fanatik can charge $459 for a 240, itís because people are foolish enough to pay them $200 more than they should.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Death from Below.

  67. #67
    Hooligan
    Reputation: dirtdawg21892's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    963
    the 36 is fine. anything over 40 is just bragging rights.
    that said, i own chris king and I9 wheelsets in adition to the DT in question.
    keep the 18's in your riding bag, that way you can just swap them in and keep riding if you happen to break the upgraded ratchets.
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Hell of a jump, dawg. Even though they're baggy shorts, I'm surprised that you can fit your balls into them.

  68. #68
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    168
    Three things in favor of the DT system. First is reliability- these are tough, and the ratchet system provides a huge area of power transfer that you can't get in a pawl hub.
    Second is the ability to upgrade the ratchet. I'll say horses for courses and leave it at that.
    Third is the ability to swap a cassette between wheel sets. I've got 2 sets of wheels for my fatbike- are we running studs today? High speed gravel? Muddy roads or packed snow? The ratchet system lets me pop off the driver and plug in a different wheelset.

    Per the OP, I run the 54's and keep the 18's in my pack as clean lubed spares. Not thinking I'll ever need them, but better to have and not want than to be screwed 20 miles from the road in black fly season.

  69. #69
    Magically Delicious
    Reputation: Cleared2land's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    7,235
    Quote Originally Posted by Porch View Post
    Have you priced 240s hubs lately? Fanatik's wheel builder prices the 240s at $459 vs. the Onyx at $445.
    Ok, Ceteris paribus...now compare the weights. You will find the DT's considerably lighter. By a significant margin.
    A bad day of cycling is better than a good day at work

    Work Truck - Dassault Falcon 7X

  70. #70
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    922
    Quote Originally Posted by dirtdawg21892 View Post
    the 36 is fine. anything over 40 is just bragging rights.
    that said, i own chris king and I9 wheelsets in adition to the DT in question.
    keep the 18's in your riding bag, that way you can just swap them in and keep riding if you happen to break the upgraded ratchets.
    Disagree about bragging rights. 54 feels and sounds much nicer than 36 IMO. Nobody knows what's in my hubs except me. And that's all that matters to me. Quicker engagement, less "clank", all good. And I'm the only one that notices. Chris King hubs are what's "bragging rights".
    You can't buy happiness. But you can buy a bike. And that's pretty close.

  71. #71
    Short-Change-Hero
    Reputation: gregnash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    5,449
    Sound is a bragging right as that is nothing more than personal preference. How many threads have you seen where the OP wants the "Loudest" or "Quietest" hub you can find.

    And honestly, I was looking more at the DT350 vs. the 240 for price comparison to the Onyx. Main difference between the two DT is weight correct? No true difference in engagement of drivetrain or anything like that.

    But really we are all arguing the same point it seems, expensive hubs are expensive for a reason. The OPs question was if the upgrade from the 18t to the 36t had more cost-benefit vs. the 18t to the 54t. Answer, as with many things, is "it depends." And that "depends" statement has to take into account multiple variables that the user is considering to make the upgrade worthwhile to them.

    Just like with a vehicles engine, more doesn't necessarily mean better. My old straight 6, 120hp, 30+yr old Land Cruiser engine gets around just fine and has more than enough power and torque to do the same things that my clubmates Land Cruisers with LS swap and 300+hp does.

  72. #72
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sethd513's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    248
    Thanks for all the responses. I ordered the 54 tooth. My wheels should be in mid week so I canít speak on that but the ratchet kit looks pretty good. Havenít seen this hub in person yet but the ratchet slugs look well designed. Not sure on the springs yet but I can see how some people might explode this 54 tooth. I could see some that have minimal maintness getting crud in them and just reaking havoc. My last ride out it seemed like all I was doing was slamming my rear hub at every corner. Hoping this eliminates that and takes away that void. Iíll post up once installed.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  73. #73
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,288
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleared2land View Post
    Ok, Ceteris paribus...now compare the weights. You will find the DT's considerably lighter. By a significant margin.
    I'm well aware! It was not my intention to imply that the onyx hubs were better in any way besides engagement (and noise).

  74. #74
    Magically Delicious
    Reputation: Cleared2land's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    7,235
    In all truth, I do feel the price charged for the upgrade star ratchets is a little steep.
    A bad day of cycling is better than a good day at work

    Work Truck - Dassault Falcon 7X

  75. #75
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    193
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleared2land View Post
    In all truth, I do feel the price charged for the upgrade star ratchets is a little steep.
    Agreed but......if you want something, can afford it I always ask myself what else am I going to do with the money if I do not buy a product I think cost too much. I usually buy the overpriced product if I want it.
    Last edited by Pedalon2018; 05-11-2018 at 07:29 PM.

  76. #76
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    193
    Quote Originally Posted by sethd513 View Post
    Thanks for all the responses. I ordered the 54 tooth. My wheels should be in mid week so I canít speak on that but the ratchet kit looks pretty good. Havenít seen this hub in person yet but the ratchet slugs look well designed. Not sure on the springs yet but I can see how some people might explode this 54 tooth. I could see some that have minimal maintness getting crud in them and just reaking havoc. My last ride out it seemed like all I was doing was slamming my rear hub at every corner. Hoping this eliminates that and takes away that void. Iíll post up once installed.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I have no doubt you will not regret the buy. I wanted a quiet hub and spent too much time trying to buy one (Project 321and Onyx). I listened to the sound on line to the 240s with 54 pt. Sounded loud but the vids are recorded incorrectly where the mic is next to the hub, not where your ears are. Turns out very quiet hub. I am sooooo pleased with it and is light compared to Onyx. I would have liked a certain color but I got over that quickl. I have no time for dodgy hubs.

  77. #77
    damned rocks...
    Reputation: Aglo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    1,969
    You have DT 240 in red, white and black .
    I want to try an Onyx hub, I know I will love riding without the annoying buzz from the rear rear hub and I don't really care about the weight, but I can't justify spending that much money on a hub. Maybe with the lighter model, the price on the older get lighter .

  78. #78
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    193
    Quote Originally Posted by Aglo View Post
    You have DT 240 in red, white and black .
    I want to try an Onyx hub, I know I will love riding without the annoying buzz from the rear rear hub and I don't really care about the weight, but I can't justify spending that much money on a hub. Maybe with the lighter model, the price on the older get lighter .
    Correct on that color. I am glad to cover the front hub with the Garmin speed sensor. As far as weight goes, I agree one heaver component makes little difference but if you keep that philosophy across your bike, it can quickly become a heavy unresponsive pig. I skipped the Onyx because of the weight. I bought a DT Swiss set of 240s that does the same job with half the weight for about the same cash. I wanted a quiet hub but the 240s with 54 pt mod is almost silent from where we sit. With Air Pods installed, it Is silent. The time I spent chasing quiet was mostly a waste of time.

  79. #79
    Magically Delicious
    Reputation: Cleared2land's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    7,235
    For those who prefer the DT's but would like a little more quiet, some freehub grease on the star ratchet makes a big difference. We all know this is a somewhat short term fix, but given the ease of pulling the freehub and adding some freehub grease, it's an easy fix.
    A bad day of cycling is better than a good day at work

    Work Truck - Dassault Falcon 7X

  80. #80
    mtbr member
    Reputation: RS VR6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    4,390
    The ratchets let me know its time to grease them as they get louder.

  81. #81
    mtbr member
    Reputation: One Pivot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    7,650
    Inspired by this thread...I just bought a pro4! Moar bearings!

    It's funny that its heavier, with an extra bearing, and less durable. Oh well, no way I'm busting a hope.

  82. #82
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,288
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleared2land View Post
    For those who prefer the DT's but would like a little more quiet, some freehub grease on the star ratchet makes a big difference. We all know this is a somewhat short term fix, but given the ease of pulling the freehub and adding some freehub grease, it's an easy fix.
    I've heard rumors that the grease is what causes chipped teeth on the high engagement ratchets. I run both of mine with some lightweight oil and a few drops of a tacky lube. They're loud but I haven't had any chipped teeth.

  83. #83
    Hooligan
    Reputation: dirtdawg21892's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    963
    Quote Originally Posted by BmanInTheD View Post
    Disagree about bragging rights. 54 feels and sounds much nicer than 36 IMO. Nobody knows what's in my hubs except me. And that's all that matters to me. Quicker engagement, less "clank", all good. And I'm the only one that notices. Chris King hubs are what's "bragging rights".
    It feels a tiny bit tighter, but there's nothing that I can do with a 120 POE industry nine that I can't do with a 36 POE DT or mavic.
    18 on the other hand, makes quick ratchet strokes in a low gear really notchy, to the point where I would consider it too few for some of the tech riding I like to do.
    YMMV
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Hell of a jump, dawg. Even though they're baggy shorts, I'm surprised that you can fit your balls into them.

  84. #84
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sethd513's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    248
    Quote Originally Posted by Porch View Post
    I've heard rumors that the grease is what causes chipped teeth on the high engagement ratchets. I run both of mine with some lightweight oil and a few drops of a tacky lube. They're loud but I haven't had any chipped teeth.
    What rachet are you running? For how long? Also what products are you using?

    Iíve seen videos of people lightly putting the grease on their rachets and Iíve also seen videos that you could barely even see the slug there was so much grease.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  85. #85
    West Chester, PA
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,455
    Quote Originally Posted by edubfromktown View Post
    One item to note with DT Swiss hubs- the bearings sit against the inside of the chain stay (unlike some other brands that have a solid axle all the way through) so you definitely do not want to over-tighten the axle when installing your wheels.
    Thats not accurate. The end caps will "bottom out" regardless. If an overtight axle or QR makes a dt star ratchet hub draggy, it's because there's a bearing that isn't seated properly or it's a cheap bearing that's out of spec. This comes up from time to time when people replace the bearings in their DT hubs.

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanInTheD View Post
    Chris King hubs are what's "bragging rights".
    They also happen to have the strongest drive system, strongest axles, and best bearings, but we'll just ignore that.

  86. #86
    Magically Delicious
    Reputation: Cleared2land's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    7,235
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleared2land View Post
    For those who prefer the DT's but would like a little more quiet, some freehub grease on the star ratchet makes a big difference. We all know this is a somewhat short term fix, but given the ease of pulling the freehub and adding some freehub grease, it's an easy fix.
    Quote Originally Posted by Porch View Post
    I've heard rumors that the grease is what causes chipped teeth on the high engagement ratchets. I run both of mine with some lightweight oil and a few drops of a tacky lube. They're loud but I haven't had any chipped teeth.
    Quote Originally Posted by sethd513 View Post
    What rachet are you running? For how long? Also what products are you using?

    Iíve seen videos of people lightly putting the grease on their rachets and Iíve also seen videos that you could barely even see the slug there was so much grease.
    First, let's note that DW Swiss advises either a freehub grease or freehub oil. Not just 'grease' of unspecified thickness. Freehub grease is a very light grease and I have used it for summer use free of any issues for many years under technical duress.

    I have seen some put thick marine grease in the star ratchet and experience issues with skipping (which can easily result in chipping). So perhaps we need to consider the dynamics of the situation.

    It doesn't take but a few small dabs of freehub grease to effectively provide appropriate lubrication, not filled with a giant blob of grease (which I have actually seen). No reason to overdo it because it's so quick and easy to remove the freehub for regular service intervals.
    A bad day of cycling is better than a good day at work

    Work Truck - Dassault Falcon 7X

  87. #87
    BOOM goes the dynamite!
    Reputation: noapathy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,721
    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Inspired by this thread...I just bought a pro4! Moar bearings!

    It's funny that its heavier, with an extra bearing, and less durable. Oh well, no way I'm busting a hope.
    Yeah, but you're saving weight not having to use a bell.

  88. #88
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sethd513's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    248
    My wheels come in today. Iím assuming the grease that comes with the kit is what you use. Light grease against the teeth and maybe medium near springs? Kind of copy what it looks like from factory?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  89. #89
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    922
    ^^^There's been lots of conversation about what grease to use for the ratchet upgrade. IDK why anyone wouldn't just use the grease that comes with it. I always have and have never had a problem with 'em, other than needing a little more every few hundred miles to keep the noise down.
    You can't buy happiness. But you can buy a bike. And that's pretty close.

  90. #90
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    293

    Dt Swiss star ratchet upgrade

    ^^^it does make sense to use the supplied grease.

  91. #91
    Magically Delicious
    Reputation: Cleared2land's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    7,235
    Not all of the upgrade star ratchets come with grease. But using an appropriate freehub grease isn't hard to find.
    A bad day of cycling is better than a good day at work

    Work Truck - Dassault Falcon 7X

  92. #92
    mtbr member
    Reputation: One Pivot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    7,650
    Slick honey works well. Or any non tacky nlgi 1 grease, but that's pretty uncommon.

    I bet fox 20wt gold would be great hub too.

  93. #93
    mtbr member
    Reputation: RS VR6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    4,390
    I use the red-ish grease that came with the ratchets. You only need to use a small amount. The grease is not real heavy. I use a light coat on the outside splines and the face of the ratchets. Its enough to change the sound from a higher pitch zzzzz...to a low hum. The small container should last a fairly long time. Not sure why you would use something else.

  94. #94
    RAKC Industries
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    3,227
    I'm actually about to upgrade myself on my 350. That was the one "downgrade" from my other hubs, engagement. Can't believe the price difference from stock 18 to a 36 or 54. Rediculous.

    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Slick honey works well. Or any non tacky nlgi 1 grease, but that's pretty uncommon.

    I bet fox 20wt gold would be great hub too.
    I do this as well. I noticed DT supplied grease to be fairly sticky. Though seems it's quieter with DT grease vs slick honey but slick honey seems to cut down on drag (feel it spinning by hand, when riding doubt it matters much)

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    Life on a bike doesn't begin till the sun goes down.


  95. #95
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sethd513's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    248
    Well i have to say very happy with this hub. Simple to get to the ratchet. The 18 t was extremely quiet. I put the 54 in and honestly itís pretty quiet and Iím happy with it. The engagement is so much better. Itís only been on the bike stand but it just feels like itís so much stronger then my old 3 pawl system. Almost seems like my cassette is louder but I havenít cleaned it or adjusted anything yet. Thanks for the posts and help with all this.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Similar Threads

  1. DT Swiss 36T Star Ratchet Upgrade - $30 shipped!
    By skinner2909 in forum Wheels and Tires
    Replies: 84
    Last Post: 03-18-2016, 01:01 PM
  2. Would the DT Swiss 36 Point Star Ratchet upgrade work in my hubs?
    By A.Christopher in forum Wheels and Tires
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-02-2013, 07:41 PM
  3. DT Swiss 36T Star Ratchet Upgrade - $30 shipped!
    By skinner2909 in forum 29er Bikes
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-17-2013, 02:43 PM
  4. DT Swiss 36T Star Ratchet Upgrade - $30 shipped!
    By skinner2909 in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-17-2013, 02:04 PM
  5. DT swiss 36 star ratchet upgrade Pros and Cons
    By Ace5high in forum Wheels and Tires
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 07-02-2013, 08:06 AM

Members who have read this thread: 368

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

mtbr.com and the ConsumerReview Network are business units of Invenda Corporation

(C) Copyright 1996-2018. All Rights Reserved.