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  1. #1
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    Custom wheel selection - Rims & Spokes for CK Hubs?

    I have two 2012 Specialized Enduros (one Expert Carbon, one Expert Evo) that are running the 142+ rear setup and 20mm front axle. The current wheels are Specialized proprietary Roval Traverse that are based on DT Swiss parts. I recently broke a drive-side spoke on the Expert Carbon and I cannot find a replacement spoke anywhere. They are 272mm straight pull but are proprietary to the wheel. I'm so sick of looking for spokes (shops want $7 per spoke from Specialized!) that I am considering a fully custom set of wheels for each bike based on Chris King hubs (with the far more standard and easy to find J-bend spokes). What rim/spokes setup could I use to make a wheel as strong or stronger than the Traverse? This whole ordeal is pissing me off enough that I almost want to ditch the bikes (which I love riding) in favor of a brand that doesn't do this proprietary BS!

  2. #2
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    Custom wheel selection - Rims & Spokes for CK Hubs?-dsc09640.jpgCustom wheel selection - Rims & Spokes for CK Hubs?-dsc09654.jpgCustom wheel selection - Rims & Spokes for CK Hubs?-dsc09657.jpghee
    My current wheelset: CK 142X12 hubs, DT Swiss 258 Competitions spokes, 16mm DT Swiss Brass nipples on Mavic 819 tubeless rims...super stiff set-up. The comps are easy to source rather than the proprietary spokes..

  3. #3
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    Custom wheel selection - Rims & Spokes for CK Hubs?-dsc09671.jpgCustom wheel selection - Rims & Spokes for CK Hubs?-dsc09657.jpg

    CK 15TA hub, DT Swiss Comps 258, 16mm Brass Nips, and 819 Mavic tubeless rim...

  4. #4
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    Those are nice! I'm wavering between something like the Mavic 819 or 521 rims or a DT Swiss EX500. I don't do tubeless but rim tapeless on the 819 would be kind of cool!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yardstick View Post
    Those are nice! I'm wavering between something like the Mavic 819 or 521 rims or a DT Swiss EX500. I don't do tubeless but rim tapeless on the 819 would be kind of cool!
    Cool is nice, but the 819 will probably out last your bike. They are almost bombproof. I had one the rear that I beat the piss out of for 5 1/2 yrs. It only got a dent because I got a puncture and did not realize it. No rim is bomb proof at 10 psi tire pressure
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yardstick View Post
    I have two 2012 Specialized Enduros (one Expert Carbon, one Expert Evo) that are running the 142+ rear setup and 20mm front axle. The current wheels are Specialized proprietary Roval Traverse that are based on DT Swiss parts. I recently broke a drive-side spoke on the Expert Carbon and I cannot find a replacement spoke anywhere. They are 272mm straight pull but are proprietary to the wheel. I'm so sick of looking for spokes (shops want $7 per spoke from Specialized!) that I am considering a fully custom set of wheels for each bike based on Chris King hubs (with the far more standard and easy to find J-bend spokes). What rim/spokes setup could I use to make a wheel as strong or stronger than the Traverse? This whole ordeal is pissing me off enough that I almost want to ditch the bikes (which I love riding) in favor of a brand that doesn't do this proprietary BS!
    Keep the bikes,
    Get the spoke from the LBS and sell the wheels. Use the money for a custom set with std parts.

    Chris King with DT Swiss Super Comp spokes and nips, with an 819 rim or WTB I23 will give you many yrs of fun.

    The 819 rim is bombproof, but heavier. Going tubeless on the rear is easy on the 819.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  7. #7
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    Just looking at the specs again I found the 819 is narrower than I'd like. At least I think it is. The width of the Roval wheels is good (28.1mm outer rim width, ETRTO is 559x23c). The 823 has similar attributes to the 819 but wider. It is heavier than I'd like, though. I tend to like tires in the 2.25-2.4 size.

  8. #8
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    You are throwing down good money on hubs, why not on rims as well. Enve AM are nice width (24mm internal) and nice weight at 400g

  9. #9
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    Stans Flow EX rims seem to hit my wants of width and weight. That Enve AM is nice, but I'm not sure about carbon rims. Although I'm on a carbon bike, so maybe. I'll look into the cost of building those.

  10. #10
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    Custom wheel selection - Rims & Spokes for CK Hubs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yardstick View Post
    Just looking at the specs again I found the 819 is narrower than I'd like. At least I think it is. The width of the Roval wheels is good (28.1mm outer rim width, ETRTO is 559x23c). The 823 has similar attributes to the 819 but wider. It is heavier than I'd like, though. I tend to like tires in the 2.25-2.4 size.
    WTB Frequency i23 rims are very nice.
    mtbtires.com
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  11. #11
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    Forget the Mavic rims.
    The WTBs are hard to beat.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  12. #12
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    WTBs are in the running now. Enve is out. Has anyone run the Flow EX and the WTB Frequency i23? Looking for real world comparisons. Putting my Mechanical Engineer hat on, it seems like the construction of the WTB would keep it more "round" and the construction of the Flow EX would tend to keep the rim more "true".

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yardstick View Post
    Putting my Mechanical Engineer hat on, it seems like the construction of the WTB would keep it more "round" and the construction of the Flow EX would tend to keep the rim more "true".
    Take the hat off... it doesn't suit.
    Both rims will stay round and true in a well built wheel and both will probably taco in the same destructive test.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    Take the hat off... it doesn't suit.
    Both rims will stay round and true in a well built wheel and both will probably taco in the same destructive test.
    Care to explain the insult?

    I see distinct construction differences that should lead to differences in strength.

  15. #15
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    If you're considering carbon rims, (I highly recommend you do) but the Enve price is a turn off, take a look at light-bicycle.com. I and hundreds of others have been running them for years. Strong, light and stiff. Best upgrade I've ever made. search for cheap Chinese carbon rims and you'll get a ton of info.
    "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of a low price is forgotten." - Benjamin Franklin

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yardstick View Post
    Care to explain the insult?

    I see distinct construction differences that should lead to differences in strength.
    As in not enough difference to matter in use.

    I prefer the WTB rims because they are designed to industry standards for tire fit, and they work.
    mtbtires.com
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  17. #17
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    Custom wheel selection - Rims & Spokes for CK Hubs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yardstick View Post
    Care to explain the insult?

    I see distinct construction differences that should lead to differences in strength.
    Not meant to be an insult, and it's not personal, there's just a tendency to jump into meaningless over-analysis on this forum, and your comment sort of falls in that category.
    Shiggy hit the nail-- there is not a difference that will manifest into a meaningful difference, probably even if you tested a statistically significant sample of rims. For your sample of one the perceived differences in construction don't have relevance.
    I'm sure there may be someone willing to meander through some reasoning on the issue, but beforehand know it will not give you guidance in terms of a basis for making a selection.
    The sort of data that would offer any insight into the kind of question you ask doesn't exist, and never has in the bike industry, for the reasons I just described: it doesn't matter.
    If data sets did exist and demonstrated something statistically significant, they would be so controlled as to be subjected to arguments like, "but what do your test bench results have to do with TRAILS, bra," to which there is no counter argument.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  18. #18
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    Just my analyst side coming out I guess. I have looked at enough cross sections of various structures that I get an idea of how the area moment of inertia will affect it's resistance to bending very easy. I was really looking for someone's real-world experience with the rims to see if they felt any different.

  19. #19
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    My opinion is fix the current wheels or re-spoke/rim them. Those specialized straight pull hubs in 142+ have extra wide "flanges" (as its straight pull they're not very flange-y...) and should give great triangulation of the spokes.

    I'm not a fan of specialized products at all, but the Roval wheels with DT Swiss internals are really nice imo.

    If you're having trouble getting spokes from your specialized dealer, find a different dealer. Some specialized dealers just suck.

    Straight pull super comp spokes tend to go for a few bucks, 7$ is a bit high but after the stores mark-up and specialized mark-up I'm not surprised. Try Spokes and Nipples for replacement spokes, they seem to have a good selection but delivery can be a bit slow.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberndt View Post
    My opinion is fix the current wheels or re-spoke/rim them. Those specialized straight pull hubs in 142+ have extra wide "flanges" (as its straight pull they're not very flange-y...) and should give great triangulation of the spokes.

    I'm not a fan of specialized products at all, but the Roval wheels with DT Swiss internals are really nice imo.

    If you're having trouble getting spokes from your specialized dealer, find a different dealer. Some specialized dealers just suck.

    Straight pull super comp spokes tend to go for a few bucks, 7$ is a bit high but after the stores mark-up and specialized mark-up I'm not surprised. Try Spokes and Nipples for replacement spokes, they seem to have a good selection but delivery can be a bit slow.
    I tried that avenue. Specialized won't give up their hub dimensions and the rim is proprietary too, so it's going to be a guessing game trying to rebuild these hubs with different spokes/rim.

    I'm pissed at Specialized. I feel like I have no support for three $5-6k bikes. None of the three dealers (five actual stores) that I contacted have the spoke I need. One (>50 mile round trip in crappy traffic) sold me the wrong spokes claiming they were the right ones.

  21. #21
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    Custom wheel selection - Rims & Spokes for CK Hubs?

    I am real pleased with my custom wheels with i23 rims -- very sturdy, great ID, easy and reliable tubeless setup.

  22. #22
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    I could be crazy, but I'm reasonably certain you should be able to dismantle the wheel and measure the rim's ERD as per many of the instructions on this forum (or the general interwebs). Measure the spokes you have. Compare to the ERD of the new rim and order spokes accordingly. I realize that this probably isn't a super precision method but the spoke length tolerance is probably +/-1mm and the difference from the original rim ERD to whatever rim you put on there afterwards would be minimal, so change in spoke angle won't affect length in any meaningful way. This is more or less my plan for building a carbon wheel set on a set of rovals I picked up dirt cheap, but I won't be doing this build until winter.

    Also It may not be everyone's cup of tea but I've drawn one or two hubs in solidworks in order to figure out all the necessary hub dimensions, this got me within a mm or so for my build on a set of previous generation roval hubs. So that's an option...

    Head over to the Roval questions thread, Roval Joe should be able to give you the correct spoke length and possibly the specialized part number. Once you have that have one of your specialized stores order that particular part. If they're not guessing at the part number it should be harder for them to screw it up. But I understand the frustration, I only deal with a dealer well out of my way because the two local spots are incompetent.

    I'd recommend showing your displeasure with the big S by writing them a letter or taking some sort of real action. Throwing money at Chris King's isn't going to hurt Specialized's bottom line any, they already sold you the wheels....

  23. #23
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    ERD should be easy enough to measure. Solidworks is a good idea for figuring out the hub. I already have the spoke dimensions (272mm drive side, 274mm non-drive). At least the rear is a 32 hole pattern. The front is 27!

    You can bet I won't be buying any more Specialized bikes, parts or even tires if I can avoid it. All of the guys I ride with (most on Specialized bikes) are going to hear about this and be reminded of it every time it comes up.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yardstick View Post
    Just looking at the specs again I found the 819 is narrower than I'd like. At least I think it is. The width of the Roval wheels is good (28.1mm outer rim width, ETRTO is 559x23c). The 823 has similar attributes to the 819 but wider. It is heavier than I'd like, though. I tend to like tires in the 2.25-2.4 size.
    The WTB I23 is a good choice. I too like the 823, but hate the weight.

    Mavic has really dropped the ball on tubeless rims. I guess all they want to sell are wheelsets.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

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