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  1. #26
    Bro Mountainbiker
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    I have a set coming for some road race wheels. Too bad they are lost in the mail. 2 weeks they have been in the states coming from Bethpage NY
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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktm520 View Post
    I have a set of the newer "HDW2" coming. Looks like they changed flange diameters slightly and the freehub has 6 pawls vs. the older 3. Going to lace them to the light-bicycle AM carbon rims.
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    Those HDW2 hubs now look like they use the Rotaz / A2Z / Chin Haur freehub engagement mechanism (or something similar). When you get them, pull the freehub off and post up some pictures of the pawls etc.

  3. #28
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    What are the flange diameters of the new HDW2 ?
    (The front one seems unchanged)

  4. #29
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    I got some drawings from the ebay seller but the front was for a 20mm thru and I'm not confident that the rear is correct. My hubs will be here later this week and I will measure. Tracking number said they were in Chicago on 2/2, but there hasn't been an update since.

  5. #30
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    Hi, thanks, that would be great if you could put here your measurements, once done

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktm520 View Post
    I got some drawings from the ebay seller but the front was for a 20mm thru and I'm not confident that the rear is correct. My hubs will be here later this week and I will measure. Tracking number said they were in Chicago on 2/2, but there hasn't been an update since.
    I posted the dimensions for the HDW2 in post 20 on page 1... Circus Monkey hubs
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  7. #32
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    these are the HDW, not the HDW2.
    For the rear HDW2, the flange at the drive side is larger than disc side. For the HDW, it's the opposite.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by fabrice View Post
    these are the HDW, not the HDW2.
    For the rear HDW2, the flange at the drive side is larger than disc side. For the HDW, it's the opposite.
    Well, isht... I guess I better pull my freehub apart and see what's inside, because I ordered the HDW2 and it matches the drawing. I ordered from Ebike.ltd on Ebay. He sells a ton of those things and has good feedback... Maybe he made a mistake.

    Now that I look at it, the current listings don't match that drawing at all... Bummer...
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  9. #34
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    Here are the drawings ebike.ltd sent me for the HDW2. The front hub appears to be the same. I was hoping I could modify the front axle for a 9mm thru, but it doesn't look like that will be possible with the small bearing id. Rear should easily convert to 10mm thru by boring out the end caps. Hubs should be here today or tomorrow. Will post pics of the freehub when I get a chance and verify flange dimensions.




  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattsavage View Post
    Well, isht... I guess I better pull my freehub apart and see what's inside, because I ordered the HDW2 and it matches the drawing. I ordered from Ebike.ltd on Ebay. He sells a ton of those things and has good feedback... Maybe he made a mistake.

    Now that I look at it, the current listings don't match that drawing at all... Bummer...
    I've bought 4 pairs of HDW's so far, and they all came form that seller. I also bought some other items from him. I just can confirm he deserves his good feedbacks
    Drop him a line, maybe with a picture... I'm sure he can do something.

    Quote Originally Posted by ktm520 View Post
    Here are the drawings ebike.ltd sent me for the HDW2. The front hub appears to be the same. I was hoping I could modify the front axle for a 9mm thru, but it doesn't look like that will be possible with the small bearing id. Rear should easily convert to 10mm thru by boring out the end caps. Hubs should be here today or tomorrow. Will post pics of the freehub when I get a chance and verify flange dimensions.
    Thanks for the drawings
    According to the one of the rear hub, both flanges have equal diameters ?
    On the photos, I had the impression the drive side was larger. You'll see when you'll measure...

  11. #36
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    I'm really happy with these hubs. Only 3 of 6 paws are engaged simultaneously and the ratchet has 27t, equals 54 points of engagement. Bearings are cheap but they can be replaced for pennies. Dust seals on hub aren't going to stop much. Definitely going to keep an eye on the plastic ratchet gear.

    *EDIT* The ratchet gear is actually steel not plastic *EDIT*

    Rear can be converted to 10mm thru by boring out the end caps. The front bearing id is only 10mm, so I'm not sure yet if it can modified without turning up some new end caps. I would really like to get a 9mm axle through it.

    The front hub drawing is accurate. The rear is not.
    left dia 56.5
    right dia 60.0
    left offset 35.5
    right offset 21.0

    Front hub 117g
    Rear hub 241g





    Last edited by ktm520; 03-02-2012 at 06:20 PM. Reason: edit hub weight

  12. #37
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    Thanks for that info !
    Indeed your measurements confirm that left dia is smaller that right dia.
    I guess the weight of the rear hub is 241g, otherwise it would be a winner over the Tune Dezibel

    I never had an A2Z/Rotaz/... in my hands, but it looks similar for the freewheel mecanism, does it ?
    No worries about the plastic teeth ? Hopefuly that ring is at the freewheel body side... Is it replaceable alone ? There is maybe a steel alternative...

  13. #38
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    Looks like its made by Chin Haur / Rotaz. A2Z is slightly different but all with this design suffer from the problem of the pawls flogging out the hub shell which you can't replace. They do wear the freehub teeth which you can replace, but there's no fixing the play that develops where the pawls sit in the hub shell. I have the A2Z version and it showed signs of flogging out after about 5000km, but has held in there for another 2500km, but it has 5 pawls that engage simultaneously so the load is distributed a bit more.

    I also found the rear axle to be a bit flexy on bigger drops allowing the freehub teeth to score the hub shell near the pawls.



    If you're a pedal masher/strong guy/ride often etc. I'd go for the other Monkey Hub design which seems stronger (although heavier).

    Are you sure the rear weighs 141g? Perhaps 241g?

  14. #39
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    So, the HDW2 may be OK for a girls, not pushing very hard and riding maybe 1500km/year... ??
    (that's one of the future builds I'll have to do, and I had those Circus Monkey hubs in mind for this)

    The "2-step" pawls of the HDW2 are a more clever design (theoretically !) than the A2Z : when coasting, that's only the first tooth (rounded) of the pawl that touches the plastic teethring, without beeing too agressive. And when pedaling, it's the second tooth (more sharp) that transmits the torque.
    I've already seen this kind of design somewhere...

    Quote Originally Posted by TigWorld View Post
    I also found the rear axle to be a bit flexy on bigger drops allowing the freehub teeth to score the hub shell near the pawls.
    That's something I've also seen with a "standard" Circus Monkey (HDW) rear hub, with a "big" guy (85kg), although on a full suspension bike.
    Not as severe as on your picture, but still visible.

  15. #40
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    Tig, thanks for the info. In theory, the two tooth pawls should help keep it from walking on the ring gear. I like the design of the A2Z front hub a lot better than the CM. Bigger bearings and plenty of room for bigger axles. Do you know if the front Rotaz is the same design?

    The seals on the bearings actually say "Chin Haur" on them along with the p/n.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktm520 View Post
    ... Do you know if the front Rotaz is the same design?...
    I'm not sure. The Rotaz seems to have flanges the same size whereas the A2Z has the different sized flanges but the hubshell seems the same OD so maybe it uses the same bearings. The A2Z can run a 15mm axle as the stock bearing ID is 15mm but you need to machine up spacers for either side and these will not be held in when you remove the thru-axle which is a little painful for wheel changes trailside.

  17. #42
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    Wow. This is great info.

    54 points of engagement? That is hawt!!

    I see now they have a front Lefty hub, which is great because the cheap supply of C'Dale SI hubs has dried up.

    I only wish they came in silver.

    I'm running cheapo swap meet Real hubs right now, but I suspect they are not long for this world. I was thinking of saving up for DT Swiss or King hubs, but that is major $$$ that i don't have, and am not likely to have in the near future.

    I'm thinking I can rawk a pretty fricking low rent but blingtastic wheelset with these hubs, the cheap carbon 30mm wide rims, DT double butted spokes and brass nipples for a pretty dang bulletproof wheelset that comes in XC racerboy light and still be in around $450 for the whole build if I lace them myself. I don't tend to destroy rims, but I would like a bigger footprint under my 29er without having to resort to heavy hoops.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot View Post

    I'm thinking I can rawk a pretty fricking low rent but blingtastic wheelset with these hubs, the cheap carbon 30mm wide rims,
    Which carbon rims are these you speak of...?
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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattsavage View Post
    Which carbon rims are these you speak of...?
    http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/ch...ms-673410.html

    I laced the AM version to the Circus Monkey HDW2's using Laser spokes, 32/3x. Only have one 2hr ride on them so far. I pulled the free hub and all looks well, but only time will tell. The freehub makes a higher frequency noise compared to a Hope, but not near as loud. It's not whisper quiet like a shimano hub though. The trails I rode weren't too technical, so I don't have a good feeling for engagement yet. I'm not a big guy (170lb) and have never been hard on hubs, so I don't anticipate any issues.

    The rear hub will convert to a 10mm thru axle by simply boring out the end caps. The front will be a little tricky to convert to a 9mm thru. The end caps will be really hard to hold in a lathe and bore out but its possible. IMO, the best solution is to swap the bearings for a 9mm id bearing and machine new end spacers.

  20. #45
    MattSavage
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktm520 View Post
    http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/ch...ms-673410.html

    I laced the AM version to the Circus Monkey HDW2's using Laser spokes, 32/3x. Only have one 2hr ride on them so far. I pulled the free hub and all looks well, but only time will tell. The freehub makes a higher frequency noise compared to a Hope, but not near as loud. It's not whisper quiet like a shimano hub though. The trails I rode weren't too technical, so I don't have a good feeling for engagement yet. I'm not a big guy (170lb) and have never been hard on hubs, so I don't anticipate any issues.

    The rear hub will convert to a 10mm thru axle by simply boring out the end caps. The front will be a little tricky to convert to a 9mm thru. The end caps will be really hard to hold in a lathe and bore out but its possible. IMO, the best solution is to swap the bearings for a 9mm id bearing and machine new end spacers.
    Oh, ok, I was just talking to the light-bicycle people yesterday. They didn't mention 30mm wide rims, but she did tell me about the 24mm wide, 25mm deep tubeless ready model they're coming out with.
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  21. #46
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    450?

    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot View Post
    Wow. This is great info.

    54 points of engagement? That is hawt!!

    I see now they have a front Lefty hub, which is great because the cheap supply of C'Dale SI hubs has dried up.

    I only wish they came in silver.

    I'm running cheapo swap meet Real hubs right now, but I suspect they are not long for this world. I was thinking of saving up for DT Swiss or King hubs, but that is major $$$ that i don't have, and am not likely to have in the near future.

    I'm thinking I can rawk a pretty fricking low rent but blingtastic wheelset with these hubs, the cheap carbon 30mm wide rims, DT double butted spokes and brass nipples for a pretty dang bulletproof wheelset that comes in XC racerboy light and still be in around $450 for the whole build if I lace them myself. I don't tend to destroy rims, but I would like a bigger footprint under my 29er without having to resort to heavy hoops.
    How are you going to build these for 450? The rims shipped are 350 and the hubs at 150put you around 500. Thats not including DT db's and nips. I want to do the same thing but cant get lower than about 550.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjmtb1 View Post
    How are you going to build these for 450? The rims shipped are 350 and the hubs at 150put you around 500. Thats not including DT db's and nips. I want to do the same thing but cant get lower than about 550.
    Those rims are only 155 a piece... But yeah, you're right at 500 bucks or so even with a hookup on spokes.
    "I wrote a hit play! What have you ever done?!"

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  23. #48
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    Well, okay, I can't add

    Quote Originally Posted by jjmtb1 View Post
    How are you going to build these for 450? The rims shipped are 350 and the hubs at 150put you around 500. Thats not including DT db's and nips. I want to do the same thing but cant get lower than about 550.
    but I can recycle some of the spokes from my other wheels. I haven't done the math, but they always end up being 291mm or 293m with all of my wheels. I have a huge bag of new nipples already. Awesome swap meet find for $5. Lifetime supply!

    The Circus Monkey ebay guy told me he'd do $139 landed for a HDW2 rear hub and Lefty front hub. I thought the going rate on the carbon hoops was like $150 landed each. It will probably be $100 by the time I get around to doing something about it.

    Dang, now that I think about it, I am going to need to build a Lefty front wheel pretty soon....

    Man.... too bad they don't have the Lefty hub in silver!! They have Black, Red, Green (green?) and white. Why green and no silver? Green looks pretty sweet, but it doesn't go with any of my bikes. My bikes are either silver trimmed or blue trimmed.
    Last edited by pimpbot; 02-25-2012 at 01:48 PM.

  24. #49
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    Short term update:

    I've got 10hrs on the HDW2 hub now. It has been working well. I am having a small issue with the free hub "banging" on engagement occasionally. The first couple of rides it did it ~5 times. I cleaned out all of the stock tacky grease and relubed with a very light film of sythetic grease. Since doing so, it has only made the noise once or less per ride. It only seems to do this when there is just the slightest pause of torque, as in pedaling along under light load, barely ease off the torque and right back on it. The freehub nevers ratchets prior to the noise. I thought it may be a drivetrain noise my geared bike, but I put the wheels on my ss and the noise followed the hub.

    My theory is that more spring preload on the paws will fix the issue. I am currently looking for stiffer springs and have a few leads. I'm also looking at making springs similar to the Hope design from spring steel. The stock springs are really light.

    Good news, I was mistaken about the ring gear being made from plastic. I just had the hub apart and the wear markings on the gear is conistent with steel. Grabbed a magnet and it stuck. These should be solid hubs if I can get the engagement issue solved.

  25. #50
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    There is a disassemble video on Youtube.

    Yes, inner ring is made of steel.

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