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  1. #1
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    About dishing wheels

    I understood the meaning of dishing a wheel only this morning. I've then read pretty much on this topic, but I still have some doubts. I found out two contrasting opinions regarding the dish of a wheel (I'm particularly interested in the rear wheel).

    1) Some people maintain dish depend only on wheel/hub, and not on frame
    2) Other say it's also affected by the specific frame which the wheel is mounted on.

    As a consequence, the first believe you can dish a wheel just centering the rim so that it is in the middle between the fork bolts on the axle. This can be accomplished even without the frame as a reference. The idea is the frame forks are centered, while the stays are not necessarily, so the procedure above ensures the wheel is aligned with the frame / the other wheel.

    The second group instead think the rim should be centered between the frame chainstays/seatstays, in order to take into account possible imperfections in the frame.

    I understand the second position, but if the frame is asymmetric, won't you end up with a rear wheel which is not aligned with the front, should you compensate through a different (from theoretical) rear wheel dish?

  2. #2
    Custom Wheelbuilder
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    Dish is standardized between all frames, and it should only though of as where the rim is relative to the hub. For a rim to be in dish (on any bike, road, mtb, or track) the rim needs to be perfectly centered between each end of the hub.
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  3. #3
    transmitter~receiver
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    Some frames have offset rear ends, in which case dishing the wheel needs to take that into account.
    In most cases you are working on a common centerline of frame, dropouts & wheel.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
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  4. #4
    Nouveau Retrogrouch SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by solitone View Post
    I understood the meaning of dishing a wheel only this morning. I've then read pretty much on this topic, but I still have some doubts. I found out two contrasting opinions regarding the dish of a wheel (I'm particularly interested in the rear wheel).

    1) Some people maintain dish depend only on wheel/hub, and not on frame
    2) Other say it's also affected by the specific frame which the wheel is mounted on.

    As a consequence, the first believe you can dish a wheel just centering the rim so that it is in the middle between the fork bolts on the axle. This can be accomplished even without the frame as a reference. The idea is the frame forks are centered, while the stays are not necessarily, so the procedure above ensures the wheel is aligned with the frame / the other wheel.

    The second group instead think the rim should be centered between the frame chainstays/seatstays, in order to take into account possible imperfections in the frame.

    I understand the second position, but if the frame is asymmetric, won't you end up with a rear wheel which is not aligned with the front, should you compensate through a different (from theoretical) rear wheel dish?
    And to refer to your previous question, It is OK to adjust the dish of the wheel slightly to center the rim in the frame, as long as it is not a serious frame alignment problem causing the problem
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    And to refer to your previous question, It is OK to adjust the dish of the wheel slightly to center the rim in the frame, as long as it is not a serious frame alignment problem causing the problem
    I better inspected my rear end.

    As I said in another thread, my rear wheel is closer to the right chainstay than to the left. The distance from the right chainstay is around just 1 mm, while the distance from the left is something like 4-5 mm (I didn't manage to take accurate measurements unfortunately).

    If I look at the seatstays, I have more clearance, say 5-6 mm from each seatstays. Perhaps the wheel is slightly closer to the right seatstay, but I'm not sure! Anyhow, if it actually is closer, the effect is smaller than near the chainstays.

    Therefore the wheel appears (almost?) centered when looking at the seatstays, but it does not when looking at the chainstays.

    I can't mount the rear wheel the other way round, because of brake disc interference. So at the moment I can't be sure about the dish of the wheel.

    However, looking at the stays it seems to me that the issue is more likely due to uneven chainstays, than to not correct wheel dish.

    If the dish were already ok, do you think it would be a bad idea to change it slightly (a couple of millimeters perhaps), in order for the wheel to be better centered with respect to the chainstays? This would allow me to gain some tyre clearance.

    Anyhow, I'll bring the bike to a bike shop in the next days. I'll ask them to check it and see whether something can be done to better center the wheel between the chainstays. But in the meanwhile I'd like to have a sound understanding of this subject, so that I can ask them the right things.

    Thanks

  6. #6
    Custom Wheelbuilder
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    @solitone- Adjusting the dish towards the non drive side wouldn't be a bad idea. Try adding one full revolution to every spoke on the non drive side. This should pull the rim over enough to give you added clearance on that drive side chain stay.
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  7. #7
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    Its ok, or even better, to have it dished more to the left.

  8. #8
    RTM
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    I am one who centers the rim over the hub first on the truing stand. Then if it looks off-center after I mount it I adjust accordingly to bring the rim/tire centered in the frame. We're usually talking 1/2 to a full turn on either side so I'm not throwing off the strength or balance. But an off-center tire drives me crazy (OCD), and it could cause rubbing issues if you try to use a wider or taller tire down the line.
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  9. #9
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    Thanks all guys! You've cleared up my mind.

    I also looked at my wheel once more. Even if is less noticeable, due to the larger clearance, the rim seems closer to the right seat stay as well.

    One further reason to follow your advice!

  10. #10
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    I would flip the wheel around in the dropout first and see if the same problem occurs backwards. This way you know you dont have a bent frame or improperly installed wheel.
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  11. #11
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    Hope

    What do you think of the specifications in this document?
    http://www.amclassic.com/documents/m...ifications.pdf

    Mine is an AmClassic wheelset, and that document says that dish should be to within 1 mm.

    What does this mean? Can I change the dish and move my rim to the left more than 1 mm?

  12. #12
    Nouveau Retrogrouch SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by solitone View Post
    What do you think of the specifications in this document?
    http://www.amclassic.com/documents/m...ifications.pdf

    Mine is an AmClassic wheelset, and that document says that dish should be to within 1 mm.

    What does this mean? Can I change the dish and move my rim to the left more than 1 mm?
    It means they ship the wheels with the dish within 1mm of perfect.

    You do not need to change it more than 2mm, which is OK.

    So stop worrying about it. Redish the wheel with it in the frame to center the tire better. Ride the bike. You will notice nothing more than less tire rubbing.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by solitone View Post
    What do you think of the specifications in this document?
    http://www.amclassic.com/documents/m...ifications.pdf

    Mine is an AmClassic wheelset, and that document says that dish should be to within 1 mm.

    What does this mean? Can I change the dish and move my rim to the left more than 1 mm?
    not to go backwards on this, but are you sure your chainstays are symmetrical at the point you're comparing the clearance?
    some chainstays are not, due to the need to maintain chainring clearance on the drive side.
    also, have you flipped the wheel around yet? what did you find?
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
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  14. #14
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    I didn't manage to flip the wheel, i should unmount the disc. Since the wheels are new and need to be checked after the first 300 km, I'll bring the bike to a mechanic next week and see what they say.

    The chainstays are not symmetric for the reason you point out, but I nevertheless believe the rim is 1 mm too far to the right at the moment.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by solitone View Post
    I didn't manage to flip the wheel, i should unmount the disc. Since the wheels are new and need to be checked after the first 300 km, I'll bring the bike to a mechanic next week and see what they say.
    I don't think you'll need to take the rotor of to do that. I don't have to with my wheels.

    Quote Originally Posted by solitone View Post
    The chainstays are not symmetric for the reason you point out, but I nevertheless believe the rim is 1 mm too far to the right at the moment.
    If it's 1mm off to one side that means you'd move it 0.5mm to fix it, which I don't think is worth doing.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
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  16. #16
    A wheelist
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    Quote Originally Posted by solitone View Post
    the rim is 1 mm too far to the right at the moment.
    1mm? It's not worth the effort of picking up the spoke wrench, much less using it. 1mm on a disc brake wheel is nothing.
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  17. #17
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    Maybe 2 mm..

    I'd need more considering the chain stays, but looking at the seat stays I think the chain stays are not symmetric as said previously

  18. #18
    Nouveau Retrogrouch SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by solitone View Post
    Maybe 2 mm..

    I'd need more considering the chain stays, but looking at the seat stays I think the chain stays are not symmetric as said previously
    OK, just get a small rear tire and forget about the wheel. You are WAY overthinking this!
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  19. #19
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    OK, this was my original idea. Then some people here on the forum advice me to check the dish.

    Now, since I have to check the wheels anyhow (they are new and you're supposed to check them after the first few hundred kms) I'll bring the bike to a mechanic next week and see what he thinks.

    I'll update you later.

    Thanks you all!
    I

  20. #20
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    Just an update.

    They dished my rear wheel to the frame (i.e. not the hub), so the wheel now has moved a couple of millimiters to the left, and the rim has the same distance to the chainstays. It's slightly closer to the left seatstay, but it's negligible as I have more room near the seatstays.

    In brief, I haven't gained much clearance, but now it's significantly better and I can continue using my rear 2.25 Racing Ralph.

    Thanks for your input.

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