2bliss: right for me?

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  • 10-28-2012
    sauprankul
    2bliss: right for me?
    I posted in a thread in GD, but I think it would be more appropriate here.
    Where I live, you'd be hard pressed not to have a flat tire after a 30 min ride around town. There are goat heads, glass, rocks, etc. The trails don't worry me as much. I ride gravel and hardpack. So, I don't need to run too low of a PSI.

    To deal w/ the flats, I'm running Avenir Thorn resistant tubes, which are CRAZY heavy. They work, but seriously, phew!

    I just hate flats and have heard bad stuff about slime tubes. I can't afford UST, so I'm thinking of going ghetto. Seems simple enough. But do I need that? Should I just use Slime tubes?

    If I should go ghetto, I have a few Qs.
    If I use a tube as a rim strip, isn't there a chance of the thing pinching and leaking?
    Where does my existing rim strip go? Nowhere, under or over?
    What if my tire already has holes in it?
    Will this work if my rims/tires are absolutely NOT tubeless ready in any way at all?
    Can I just inject Stan's into my regular tubes?

    Thanks for helping,
    sauprankul
  • 10-29-2012
    beanbag
    The cheapest, safest, least drama-involving method is to just get Slime Tubes and be done with it.
  • 10-29-2012
    sauprankul
    That's what I was thinking too. But I've heard several people say it doesn't work right. Maybe I should get Stan shots in my tubes?
  • 10-29-2012
    James.Hamilton
    Ghetto tubeless - No pinching because the part of the tube that is being used lies above your already installed rim strip, tubes get pinch flats when they are pinched between something and the rim won't happen with ghetto. I have done ghetto installs on cheaper rims without issue. It is not hard at all, take a look at some threads and online videos to see what to do.

    I opted to venture into tubeless with new tires to avoid issue but now that I have worked with a number of tires I can say that used may work it depends on how large the leaks are.

    With your conditions you will love tubeless after the initial install period. The process seems more daunting that it really is. Few go back to tubes and that is a good indicator of the benefits vs. downsides. You can always inject stans into your existing tubes. This would be another thing to research a bit with videos and forums because depending on your tubes (presta or shrader) you will have to do a few things to get the goop in. Hope this helps!
  • 10-29-2012
    sauprankul
    Thanks. I didn't think converting looked too hard either.
    I think I'll shoot my next (normal) tubes with Stan's and I'll go tubeless on my next (new and hole free) tires. I don't want to have to deal with holes in the tire from the get-go.
  • 11-02-2012
    HitmenOnlyInc
    In my experience it is best to start with new tires when going tubeless. I used Gorilla tape and cut down presta stems from old tubes, about $6 and Stan's sealant on circa 1999 Mavic x221 rims. No problems. It was difficult to get used tires to seat, but with some effort and an air compressor it worked. After the Stan's totally ate away at the insides of a set of WTB tires, I went with 2bliss ready Ground Controls and they seated very easy.
  • 11-02-2012
    sauprankul
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by HitmenOnlyInc View Post
    After the Stan's totally ate away at the insides of a set of WTB tires, I went with 2bliss ready Ground Controls and they seated very easy.

    Woah woah woah.... "ate away"? What does that mean? I can't use standard tires with Stan's? That night be a problem. I don't know if I want to get tubeless ready tires.
  • 11-02-2012
    ColinL
    That's interesting, because your thread title has '2Bliss' in it, which is Specialized's name for tubeless-ready tires that have a UST-like bead but lack the heavy, reinforced UST sidewall. They are like Bontrager TLR, Geax TNT, WTB TCS and Maxxis LUST. Not full UST spec, but they have the bead.

    If all you are worried about is glass and goatheads, get Mr Tuffy Liners. They will stop anything short of a nail or huge piece of glass. I use them in my road bike, and I've had tire casings totally destroyed by glass (they were fragile racing tires) but it didn't go through the thin plastic tuffy liner and I didn't get a flat.

    They are cheap and light, and very easy to use. Nothing at all like a ghetto tubeless project.

    But tubeless has the advantage of eliminating pinch flats. Tuffys won't help you there, for obvious reasons.
  • 11-02-2012
    sauprankul
    Haha... 2bliss.
    I've heard that liners are a source of pinch flats themselves, but I'm not sure if that's just from improper installation.
    Thing is, I DESPISE flats. I don't want any flat of any sort. Pinch flats are one of them. My last flat was a pinch.
    Sealant is incapable of sealing pinch flats for their size, so that's out of the question. Sealants soften tires, but to what extent?
    Can someone share?

    Prolly gonna end up just sucking it up and accepting that flats are a part of life. Airless tires, I'm looking at you.
  • 11-03-2012
    HitmenOnlyInc
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sauprankul View Post
    Woah woah woah.... "ate away"? What does that mean? I can't use standard tires with Stan's? That night be a problem. I don't know if I want to get tubeless ready tires.

    After having Stan's in WTB Velociraptors for a couple of months, I hit a good sized rock on the trail which caused a bubble in my rear tire. I bought a new tire (2bliss Ground Control) to replace it. When I took the tire off, it appeared to me that the Stan's had eaten away at the casing of the tire and most of the threads of the tire were showing and the tire had become soft. I took the tire back to Performance where I bought it and asked if it was a faulty tire and could it be warranted. After talking to the head mechanic he told me that it was known that WTB tires did not fare well with sealant, especially Stan's. He said that WTB would not warranty the tire because it was not designed for tubeless applications.
  • 11-04-2012
    BDozer
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sauprankul View Post
    Thing is, I DESPISE flats.

    Me too. For years I did a lot of biking in an area that was loaded with goat heads. With regular tubes it was impossible to ride there - multiple punctures within 10 minutes or so. Then I went with slimed tubes (added to existing tubes by bike shop) and ran that setup for 10 years or so without a flat. After a ride I'd pull all the goat heads out and you could see little bit of green seeping out. A quick spin around the block and up on the bike rack and it was good to go.

    Currently, I'm running Specialized armadillio series tires on my mt. bike and Conti gatorskin hardshells on my road bike. On the mt bike I use tubes with sealant but will change to tubless with sealant this winter. Road bike runs regular tubes without much issue. The Specialized and Conti tires are not racing-light, but they aren't total pigs either.

    I agree, flats suck. I'll add weight until I get enough protection that 99% of the time I don't get them.
  • 11-04-2012
    sauprankul
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by BDozer View Post
    Then I went with slimed tubes (added to existing tubes by bike shop) and ran that setup for 10 years or so without a flat. After a ride I'd pull all the goat heads out and you could see little bit of green seeping out. A quick spin around the block and up on the bike rack and it was good to go.

    OK. I take it that Slime brand tubes worked out for you. I think I'll just go with those next time. I'll hold YOU responsible if they don't work. jk :p
    Looks like we both agree that a little (or a lot) more weight is a small price to pay for victory against the flats.
  • 11-04-2012
    HitmenOnlyInc
    I have to say that tubeless with sealant is a great way to go! I have ridden with this set up very successfully in a wide range of desert riding. Thorns, goat heads, cholla cactus, all no problem.
  • 11-04-2012
    sauprankul
    How long have you been running the new tires, how much were they and how are they doing?
  • 11-04-2012
    BDozer
    Just to be clear, I haven't used Slime's latest pre-slime'd tubes. I had slime added to a set of a set of normal tubes a very long time ago (late '90's). I have no experience with the latest Slime tubes. The Specialized air-lock tubes I'm using now are working, but I'm no longer living in goat head country. Most flats here are due to very sharp rocks or glass or other debris. But, the air-locks are super heavy...so they go away this winter as I switch to tubless. The switch is to lose some weight and run lower pressures.
  • 11-04-2012
    sauprankul
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by BDozer View Post
    Just to be clear, I haven't used Slime's latest pre-slime'd tubes. I had slime added to a set of a set of normal tubes a very long time ago (late '90's). I have no experience with the latest Slime tubes.

    One would assume that a product would get better over time right? I mean, if it's a tube by slime for slime, then it should work as good as if not better than a slime shot, no?:
  • 11-04-2012
    HitmenOnlyInc
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sauprankul View Post
    How long have you been running the new tires, how much were they and how are they doing?

    I love the 2Bliss Ground Controls. They aren't cheap though, about $55 each. But I think that is about the norm for tubeless ready tires. I purchased mine from my LBS. I am sure there a deals to be found on the net though.
  • 11-04-2012
    ColinL
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by HitmenOnlyInc View Post
    I love the 2Bliss Ground Controls. They aren't cheap though, about $55 each. But I think that is about the norm for tubeless ready tires. I purchased mine from my LBS. I am sure there a deals to be found on the net though.

    I like my Ground Control Control a lot as a do-everything tire. They're definitely better on hardpack and loose-over-hardpack than the Schwalbe Rocket Ron (2012 model) on my dad's bike. I'm kind of surprised how fast they are wearing, though. I have about 250 miles on them, all singletrack, and I think they are probably 25-33% done already.

    I'm getting ready to try the Geax Saguaro TNT in hopes of equal or better hardpack performance and faster rolling.

    I also have a set of Maxxis Crossmark LUST on the way that I bought super cheap on ebay because they are lightly used.
  • 11-04-2012
    BDozer
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sauprankul View Post
    One would assume that a product would get better over time right? I mean, if it's a tube by slime for slime, then it should work as good as if not better than a slime shot, no?:

    I would certainly hope so. But as an engineer I'm obligated to say that it isn't always true.