Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 26 to 43 of 43
  1. #26
    Fat & Single
    Reputation: ozzybmx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,986
    Quote Originally Posted by 4slomo View Post
    ENVE recommends 32 spoke mountain wheels for 165 pounds and up: http://www.envecomposites.com/manuals.aspx. I wouldn't push my luck with such expensive rims by using lower spoke counts if over 165 pounds.
    ENVE are building me a set at the moment and with all details supplied, including moi @ 200lb they are 28 hole XC clinchers/240's .
    Ti O'Beast
    Indy Fab
    One9
    Dirty Disco CX

  2. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    207
    There is one review for the Easton EC90 XC 29er.
    Comes from a 260lbs biker...and those carbon wheels have 24 spokes, straight pull though...

    I'm also looking around for a new carbon wheelset, and it has to withstand my 177lbs, not 260lbs.
    Don't want to drag unnecessary weight along, so the only solution would be a custom wheelset I guess.

  3. #28
    It's always greener
    Reputation: Cannonhead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    285
    I like the fat and flat tire profile the ENVE AM rims provide compared to XC, but I'm not sure if I want to put up with the extra weight...

    but, 4slomo...sorry to deviate off topic, those will be awesome race-centric wheels!

  4. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    1
    I'm trying to put together a "modified" build of a 2012 29er Superfly 100 Pro. So far, I've decided to swap out the SRAM XX groupo with full XTR. I'm going with XTR given good experience with XT on my current GF Cake 1 26 rig since 2005. Although I liked how the XX shifted during recent demos, I'd rather have a stouter build with the XTR given a little more weight (not sure how much, though)...

    Moving on...as far as wheels go, *****I want something STIFF & LIGHT (sub 1500g) but will last many YEARS to come, given my 200lb (210lb rider weight) and semi-race speed*****.

    I'm aggressive, not a racer, but ride with those who do race. For history sake, I've had 6 hairline cracks at the nipples on my stock rear GF wheel, with two smiley hairline cracks at the "virtual" brake track (disc brakes...of course). Also, I've broken the rear triangle once with full warranty replacement (thanks Trek!) and had my Mavic Ksyrium SSC SL's rebuilt 3 times given cracking at the nipples and hubs. WHEW! Thanks for reading....

    I PM'ed that 260lb poster and he was running the EA90 XC and NOT the EC90 XC! He was cool about it..

    1. I'm curious why 'ozzybmx', the 200 lb rider, only got a 28 spoke build. When I called ENVE the other day, they recommended me to get a 32 spoke setup with my 200lbs at 6'4".

    2. Any update on those that have built up ENVE Twenty9 XC? How long have you owned them, riding style, and weight?

    3. What's the difference between the hubs of DT240, Chris King, or even the original post "Extralite Hyper hubs"?

    4. Given my riding conditions of single track, rocks, roots, sandy dirt, and rolling terrain, what would the life span be for rims such as these? Hard to answer, but please give it your best synopsis. I'm trying to gauge whether I should buy these or even another rim. I'm flexible at this point, but I don't want to go to wheels that weight 1600g+.

    Again...thanks for reading,
    Keith

  5. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation: 4slomo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    1,565
    My customer has been xc riding, training and racing on this wheelset for the past 6 months. At the Leadville 100, he went down in a minor crash, no damage to the wheelset, got up, and kept going, finishing near his time goal for the race.

    He brought me his wheels and I checked the spoke tensions and true of the wheelset after he returned, the wheels remain unchanged. Very impressive.

    Quote Originally Posted by cyclingkk View Post
    ...Any update on those that have built up ENVE Twenty9 XC? How long have you owned them, riding style, and weight?...

    Again...thanks for reading,
    Keith
    Hey everybody, ride my wheels! They ride good, real good.
    I'm a wheel builder. SRLPE Wheel Works. Send me a PM.

  6. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation: red5jedi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    424
    Quote Originally Posted by 4slomo View Post
    He brought me his wheels and I checked the spoke tensions and true of the wheelset after he returned, the wheels remain unchanged. Very impressive.
    Did you glue the nipples or did you use spoke prep (or both)? How are the wheels doing?

  7. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation: 4slomo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    1,565
    My customer brought his wheelset to me a few weeks ago, concerned that there was a creaking sound in the rear wheel. I checked the spoke tensions and found that some spokes were looser and some spokes were tighter than when I had built the wheels for him. This was quite confusing to me. I asked him if he had adjusted the spoke tensions to true the wheels, and he told me no one had touched the wheels true and spoke tensioning other than myself.

    I cleaned dirt and dust particles from the spoke crossings, and retrued the wheels. The only theory I could develop was that some of the spokes had started detensioning. I returned the wheels to my customer and told him to ride them and see how they felt. I also want to see if the nipples could again detension the spokes.

    Today I conducted an experiment on my rear wheel to test my theory that some spoke nipples started unscrewing. See this link. This demonstrates that as a spoke nipple unscrews and detensions a spoke, the tensions in the other spokes will either increase or decrease in response.

    I did use spoke prep, which includes a light locking agent. I do believe that the spoke prep had aged, and did not provide sufficient locking of the nipples. If my customer experiences more spoke nipples unscrewing, I will take all the nipples off, clean the spokes, apply new spoke prep, and retrue the wheels.

    My current opinion is that with the carbon rims, it is necessary to use spoke prep to keep the spokes from detensioning. I suspect that this is because the rims are so stiff, they transmit more vibrations from riding to the nipples.

    Quote Originally Posted by red5jedi View Post
    Did you glue the nipples or did you use spoke prep (or both)? How are the wheels doing?
    Last edited by 4slomo; 02-16-2012 at 11:04 PM.
    Hey everybody, ride my wheels! They ride good, real good.
    I'm a wheel builder. SRLPE Wheel Works. Send me a PM.

  8. #33
    transmitter~receiver
    Reputation: meltingfeather's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    8,131
    Quote Originally Posted by 4slomo View Post
    Today I conducted an experiment on my rear wheel to test my theory that some spoke nipples started unscrewing. See this link. This demonstrates that as a spoke nipple unscrews and detensions a spoke, the tensions in the other spokes will either increase or decrease in response.
    Interesting, and as I would expect.
    Quote Originally Posted by 4slomo View Post
    I did use spoke prep, which includes a light locking agent. I do believe that the spoke prep had aged, and did not provide sufficient locking of the nipples. If my customer experiences more spoke nipples unscrewing, I will take all the nipples off, clean the spokes, apply new spoke prep, and retrue the wheels.
    If you use Wheelsmith Spoke Prep, it does not contain any locking agents. It is simply a viscous PTFE (Teflon) lubricant. The viscocity is what is responsible for the "locking" action when the spokes have no tension.
    Quote Originally Posted by 4slomo View Post
    My current opinion is that with the carbon rims, it is necessary to use spoke prep to keep the spokes from detensioning. I suspect that this is because the rims are so stiff, they transmit more vibrations from riding to the nipples.
    Also interesting...
    I wonder if the stiffness of carbon rims and the smooth edges of the molded holes might play a role by reducing friction at the nipple/rim interface.
    What spokes did you use?
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  9. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation: 4slomo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    1,565
    I used Alchemy Lube and Lock for this wheel build, which has been described to me as containing a light loctite component. I suspect that the breakaway torque due to the loctite is similar to the viscosity effect of the PTFE.

    Carbon rims such as ENVE and the DT-S EXC and XRC with molded-in inserts, and also aluminum alloy rims with machined nipple seats such as the WTB Frequency models, can achieve low nipple/seat interface friction values. This enables higher quality wheel building results, but the builder must compensate for the loss of interface friction to keep the nipples in-place.

    The spokes are Sapim CX-Ray. The basic wheel build is listed in Post #1.

    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    Interesting, and as I would expect.

    If you use Wheelsmith Spoke Prep, it does not contain any locking agents. It is simply a viscous PTFE (Teflon) lubricant. The viscocity is what is responsible for the "locking" action when the spokes have no tension.

    Also interesting...
    I wonder if the stiffness of carbon rims and the smooth edges of the molded holes might play a role by reducing friction at the nipple/rim interface.
    What spokes did you use?
    Hey everybody, ride my wheels! They ride good, real good.
    I'm a wheel builder. SRLPE Wheel Works. Send me a PM.

  10. #35
    transmitter~receiver
    Reputation: meltingfeather's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    8,131
    Quote Originally Posted by 4slomo View Post
    I used Alchemy Lube and Lock for this wheel build, which has been described to me as containing a light loctite component. I suspect that the breakaway torque due to the loctite is similar to the viscosity effect of the PTFE.
    10-4
    I'm not familiar with that product. IME Spoke Prep does not have a "breakaway" torque. That's what differentiates it from glues like Spoke Freeze.
    Quote Originally Posted by 4slomo View Post
    Carbon rims such as ENVE and the DT-S EXC and XRC with molded-in inserts, and also aluminum alloy rims with machined nipple seats such as the WTB Frequency models, can achieve low nipple/seat interface friction values. This enables higher quality wheel building results, but the builder must compensate for the loss of interface friction to keep the nipples in-place.
    Makes sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by 4slomo View Post
    The spokes are Sapim CX-Ray. The basic wheel build is listed in Post #1.
    woops... should have looked for that before asking.
    the reason I asked is that I'd think an elastic spoke like the CX-Ray would work in your favor in this context. hmmm...
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  11. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    5,747
    Looking at the other post suggests the NDS nipples at 70KgF were the ones loosenng. Enve lists recommended rear drive tension as 120-140KgF. The other post shows 120KgF RDS.so tensioning at 140KgF may increase NDS to a point where they will not loosen.

  12. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation: 4slomo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    1,565
    I conducted the spoke detensioning experiment described in the other thread using my DT-S EXC 400/CX-Ray/240s rear wheel, trued to a maximum tension of 120kgf. I loosened a NDS nipple to test my theory, and took the tension measurements, as a lower tension NDS nipple is more likely to loosen than a DS nipple.

    I built my customer's ENVE XC/CX-Ray/Extralite rear wheel, the subject of this thread, to a maximum tension of 140kgf. I wouldn't have used my customer's wheel to conduct an experiment.

    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    Looking at the other post suggests the NDS nipples at 70KgF were the ones loosenng. Enve lists recommended rear drive tension as 120-140KgF. The other post shows 120KgF RDS.so tensioning at 140KgF may increase NDS to a point where they will not loosen.
    Hey everybody, ride my wheels! They ride good, real good.
    I'm a wheel builder. SRLPE Wheel Works. Send me a PM.

  13. #38
    mtbr member
    Reputation: argibson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    424

    ec90 xc review

    Quote Originally Posted by Dikkie View Post
    There is one review for the Easton EC90 XC 29er.
    Comes from a 260lbs biker...and those carbon wheels have 24 spokes, straight pull though...

    I'm also looking around for a new carbon wheelset, and it has to withstand my 177lbs, not 260lbs.
    Don't want to drag unnecessary weight along, so the only solution would be a custom wheelset I guess.
    Well, here is my review of them....and I am about your weight.

    I bought the EC90 XC wheels and rode for sixty days before the rear rim failed

    I am 175lbs and ride a f/s on xc trails...and the rear rim bead cracked despite using a 2.1 ignitor with 35lbs pressure. I only had them 60 days. Easton descibes on their website and marketing materials that these are "able to withstand seasons of abuse on rough trails" due to the impact resistant military grade armored balistic carbon. They are super expensive and Easton really markets them as bombproof...they are NOT. Upon return they would not honor the warranty and claimed crash damage. BS. I will not buy Easton again and do not recommend these wheels. On carbon rovals now. Have also heard good things about the enve wheels too.Would not buy again. Easton overhyped this product and didnt stand behind its claims. Buyer beware...its an expensive gamble.

  14. #39

  15. #40
    mtbr member
    Reputation: argibson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    424
    My wheel failed when the bead crushed, so different then what happened with the bloggers wheel, but no less disappointing. Easton dropped the ball big time.
    Giant Team Bike & Bean-Marin Co., CA

    https://www.facebook.com/GiantBikeandBean

  16. #41
    mtbr member
    Reputation: argibson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    424
    Pic
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 29er XC Carbon Race Wheels Lightest Yet-imageuploadedbytapatalk1331355084.483262.jpg  

    Giant Team Bike & Bean-Marin Co., CA

    https://www.facebook.com/GiantBikeandBean

  17. #42
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    66
    If I can ever scrape the coin together, I will be getting a set of ENVE rims for my mtb. will probably get the AM rims, only because I like my wheels wide, and I'm coming from WTB laserdisc trails.

    As a materials scientist, I can say the materials that ENVE puts into their products is absolutely the best in the industry. They take no shortcuts, cut no corners, and it shows in their final product. I do not work for ENVE, but hope to someday

  18. #43
    mtbr member
    Reputation: 4slomo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    1,565

    Update to creaking in rear wheel

    It turns out that the creaking sound in the rear wheel was originating in the freehub, the bearings in the freehub were failing, but it wasn't possible to discern it by just rotating the freehub while the wheel was off the bike. The wheels had been ridden for a little over a year, but quite a few miles by an endurance racer on training rides and races.

    My customer ordered a new freehub and microadjusters for loading the Hyper hub bearings from Extralite, along with an order for a new set of Hyper hubs I needed for another wheel build.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4slomo View Post
    My customer brought his wheelset to me a few weeks ago, concerned that there was a creaking sound in the rear wheel. I checked the spoke tensions and found that some spokes were looser and some spokes were tighter than when I had built the wheels for him. This was quite confusing to me. I asked him if he had adjusted the spoke tensions to true the wheels, and he told me no one had touched the wheels true and spoke tensioning other than myself.

    I cleaned dirt and dust particles from the spoke crossings, and retrued the wheels. The only theory I could develop was that some of the spokes had started detensioning. I returned the wheels to my customer and told him to ride them and see how they felt. I also want to see if the nipples could again detension the spokes.

    Today I conducted an experiment on my rear wheel to test my theory that some spoke nipples started unscrewing. See this link. This demonstrates that as a spoke nipple unscrews and detensions a spoke, the tensions in the other spokes will either increase or decrease in response.

    I did use spoke prep, which includes a light locking agent. I do believe that the spoke prep had aged, and did not provide sufficient locking of the nipples. If my customer experiences more spoke nipples unscrewing, I will take all the nipples off, clean the spokes, apply new spoke prep, and retrue the wheels.

    My current opinion is that with the carbon rims, it is necessary to use spoke prep to keep the spokes from detensioning. I suspect that this is because the rims are so stiff, they transmit more vibrations from riding to the nipples.
    Hey everybody, ride my wheels! They ride good, real good.
    I'm a wheel builder. SRLPE Wheel Works. Send me a PM.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •