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  1. #801
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    Here are a picture of my wider (stronger) DU with king hubs CX-Ray spokes 260mm all the way around, DT Swiss gold alloy nipples. They came in at 1627gram 7 grams over the DT Swiss calculator! Pretty good! 26in chinese carbon all mountain rim-imageuploadedbytapatalk1354482881.588704.jpg
    Last edited by Darkstar187; 12-03-2012 at 12:01 AM.

  2. #802
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    Quote Originally Posted by saruti View Post
    nybike1971
    maybe its time to use more PSI on the rear tire....
    I guess you would break any carbon rim with 28 PSI on the rear.
    Morgan said it very well. I know it is not true that any carbon rim would crack under my body at 28psi. A friend of mine has been riding a set of Reynolds rims for over a season on a hardtail in rocky terrain and they have held up great.

    The whole point of running tubeless is to improve the ride quality. If I can't run 28psi in a 850g 2.4 tire, the rim is useless for me. I am not talking about paper thin 450g tires here.

    Just like Morgan, I treated this as an experiment. I was hoping it would work out but for me it didn't and it's time to move on. Maybe I'll splurge on a set of Enve because I really liked to stiffness and feel of carbon.

    saruti, just out of curiosity, do you have any affiliation with light-bicycle?

  3. #803
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    You are absolutely correct. I run 23 PSI in my rear tire on my Eastons and have for over a year without issues. This is doing 5-10 drops and riding a lot of fast rocky chunk.

  4. #804
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    nybike1971
    I dont have any relationship with light-bicycle.com. I'm a costumer like all of us.
    I just think that with carbon rims, we shuld use more tire pressure.
    for me it's easy, becouse I like my tires pressure high. even when I used aluminium rims.
    I dont like the feel of the tires foldes when I take a turn....
    and I like the feel of my bike suspension working under me, and not the tires.
    I hope you understand what I mean :-)

  5. #805
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    I'm 200lbs, and sure I can put my tires at 25f/28r PSI and make my rims survive, riding at a moderate pace. If I ride with any less than 32f/35r my 800g tires(any kind) squirm and are unpredictable, at the pace I want to ride. At higher pressures like this, I also have a tendency to make rims last pretty long. I can remember very well the last time I dented a rim. My Light Bicycle rims have been doing GREAT, even blasting hard.

    If you regularly put dents in your aluminum rims, in my opinion, carbon rims are going to be a risky deal for you, unless you increase your pressures a bit.

    I guess for the record, here is my riding level. This is my other bike, but I don't ride my bike with the LB carbon wheels any less aggressive. Fast forward about 2min in for better terrain.

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ddeURBD-cxM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    Last edited by thuren; 12-03-2012 at 07:03 AM.
    Bend, Oregon

  6. #806
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    thure
    you know how to write and explain, better than me :-)

  7. #807
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    That was fun to watch except for the metal on metal part, awesome riding. I ride pretty similar trails I'm 140lbs hopefully these carbon wheels will hold up.

  8. #808
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    Looks like a pretty good fun factor for such a well-groomed trail. I don't think rocks will be an issue for you... looks like a fun ride, though. Troll alert: your buddy has a nasty skidding habit that would be remedied with a little compress-and-lean into those wide, nicely-bermed corners y'all have.
    Go out and ride your bike


  9. #809
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    Thanks guys. Lets me just say again, that I have been charging with these rims even on rocky terrain(even though there is little rock in that above vid), and as long as my pressures are high, I have NO worries. I smashed into a couple rock sections yesterday on the trail, which reminds me I should give the rims a go go-over today, as I know my front pressure was down in the 29psi range. I think the buttery 160mm fork did it's job though.
    Bend, Oregon

  10. #810
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    Quote Originally Posted by eurotrash666 View Post
    Troll alert: your buddy has a nasty skidding habit that would be remedied with a little compress-and-lean into those wide, nicely-bermed corners y'all have.
    HAHA! I'll just say, once you get to a certain speed, if you DON'T skid, you are not making the turn. Race-pace mandates skidding sometimes.
    Bend, Oregon

  11. #811
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    Quote Originally Posted by thuren View Post
    HAHA! I'll just say, once you get to a certain speed, if you DON'T skid, you are not making the turn. Race-pace mandates skidding sometimes.
    I was going to say if you haven't ridden BTI it's hard to tell how short those sections between switchbacks are. If you have enough speed to air the jumps you're going to skid a little.

  12. #812
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    Quote Originally Posted by thuren View Post
    HAHA! I'll just say, once you get to a certain speed, if you DON'T skid, you are not making the turn. Race-pace mandates skidding sometimes.
    Whenever I make a troll post, god kills a kitten. Lean, rail, rejoice. With finesse comes speed and control!

    Chiming in on pressure, if only to boost the number of voices- I am heavy, and I ride aggressively. I could go on about breaking bones and parts and all that, since I shred, blah blah, but one thing that matters for sure is tire pressure. Up front (for me) maybe it can dip to a pound or two, but 30 psi is the absolute minimum in back. Varies with carcass size and terrain and all the other variables, but c'mon, you can't expect to not beat a rim with 24 psi no matter what you weigh.

    If you know what pressure you will pinch flat at, and you should, that would be the same condition that your rim no longer has a cushion between it and the rock you landed on. Eliminating tubes eliminates pinch flats (well, the tube kind) but it does not change how your rim gets hammered. The line between compliant traction and slog & squirm is so narrow, why try to balance it? Add 5 psi and be done with it. My street/dj bike that these carbon rims are for always has 35 psi in the tires (with tubes), and I expect them to last.
    Go out and ride your bike


  13. #813
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    Quote Originally Posted by eurotrash666 View Post
    Whenever I make a troll post, god kills a kitten. Lean, rail, rejoice. With finesse comes speed and control!

    Chiming in on pressure, if only to boost the number of voices- I am heavy, and I ride aggressively. I could go on about breaking bones and parts and all that, since I shred, blah blah, but one thing that matters for sure is tire pressure. Up front (for me) maybe it can dip to a pound or two, but 30 psi is the absolute minimum in back. Varies with carcass size and terrain and all the other variables, but c'mon, you can't expect to not beat a rim with 24 psi no matter what you weigh.

    If you know what pressure you will pinch flat at, and you should, that would be the same condition that your rim no longer has a cushion between it and the rock you landed on. Eliminating tubes eliminates pinch flats (well, the tube kind) but it does not change how your rim gets hammered. The line between compliant traction and slog & squirm is so narrow, why try to balance it? Add 5 psi and be done with it. My street/dj bike that these carbon rims are for always has 35 psi in the tires (with tubes), and I expect them to last.
    I agree 100%!
    Bend, Oregon

  14. #814
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    I am about to have a set of these laced up to some Hope Pro 2 Evo's for my Stumpy FSR evo (can never have to many products named evo)

    Can anyone confirm the spoke length needed? I'm having trouble finding the right specs to punch into DT's calculator for hub info, and I've searched this thread but found some varying results. 260? 262? 263? - confused, and just want to have my LBS order the right thing. Thanks!

  15. #815
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    You better measure it yourself, this way you'll have exactly the right stuff.

  16. #816
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    Don't forget to consider the effect from the length of your neeples!
    Go out and ride your bike


  17. #817
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    I got my spoke lengths wrong, and had them too long by 2mm.
    But it was a relatively easy fix.

    Just got a 14g spoke roller, as it was cheaper than buying a new full set of spokes.

    Scar
    P.S. Mine are still riding perfectly!
    1500g all in with American classic hubs, running tubeless.

  18. #818
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad andy View Post
    I am about to have a set of these laced up to some Hope Pro 2 Evo's for my Stumpy FSR evo (can never have to many products named evo)

    Can anyone confirm the spoke length needed? I'm having trouble finding the right specs to punch into DT's calculator for hub info, and I've searched this thread but found some varying results. 260? 262? 263? - confused, and just want to have my LBS order the right thing. Thanks!

    I am coming up with 258 and 259. Let me know what you end up finding out. My ERD was correct from their web page so you results may vary depending on if you ERD is the same as mine

  19. #819
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    With my Chris king hubs I used 260 front and rear. The ERD was dead on. I used the dt calculator to find the correct spokes.

  20. #820
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    Just ordered a set of light-bike's AM hoops for my bike... My plan is to relace my current Mavic Crossmax st's with these hoops. Anyone see any issues with this logic??

  21. #821
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scotty Slc View Post
    Just ordered a set of light-bike's AM hoops for my bike... My plan is to relace my current Mavic Crossmax st's with these hoops. Anyone see any issues with this logic??
    Using the Crossmax ST hub? What will you use for spokes? The ball-end zircal spokes with the double-threaded UST nips will only retrofit with the XM819 rim, as far as I know. What's your plan?
    Go out and ride your bike


  22. #822
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    Quote Originally Posted by eurotrash666 View Post
    Using the Crossmax ST hub? What will you use for spokes? The ball-end zircal spokes with the double-threaded UST nips will only retrofit with the XM819 rim, as far as I know. What's your plan?
    I was planning on running the ST hub... I was planning on trying to make it work at first... I wanted to see if anyone is running a similar setup, so I can steal some idea's...

  23. #823
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrgto View Post
    I am coming up with 258 and 259. Let me know what you end up finding out. My ERD was correct from their web page so you results may vary depending on if you ERD is the same as mine
    I did manage to find the Hope hub dimensions and also came up with 258/259 for the rear. 258/260 for the front. pic attached:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 26in chinese carbon all mountain rim-screen-shot-2012-12-21-1.21.51-pm.png  


  24. #824
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad andy View Post
    I did manage to find the Hope hub dimensions and also came up with 258/259 for the rear. 258/260 for the front. pic attached:
    I went with 258/260 front and rear, and it worked great. Next round, I will be using 260's for all, as if anything they were about 1-2mm too short.
    Bend, Oregon

  25. #825
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    Quote Originally Posted by thuren View Post
    I went with 258/260 front and rear, and it worked great. Next round, I will be using 260's for all, as if anything they were about 1-2mm too short.
    Yep, I used 260 both sides on my front Hope Evo. I could see the spoke end just short of flush with the top of the nipple, disc side.


  26. #826
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    Hey Geo,
    What did you use rim strip or just tape?

  27. #827
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkstar187 View Post
    Hey Geo,
    What did you use rim strip or just tape?
    Just Gorilla tape , I'm running with tubes at present, I may get back into tubeless after our holiday break.

  28. #828
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    Ok cool, that's what I'm running tubeless it was kind of pain to mount my Hans dampf I lots of soapy water and a compressor to get them mounted up.

  29. #829
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    Wow - OK, so I've spent the better part of this entire week reading these 34 pages for these carbon rims (on a personal note, reading through threads would be 100x easier if people got rid of their stupid massive signatures). I even emailed Nancy myself inquiring about certain items. It seems like some customers are more than happy with the wheels, while others have had theirs break, and others have been completely cold-shouldered by customer service warranty/return issues. What's the feeling on these wheels? They seem a bit hit-and-miss, and I read numerous posts where people have ordered theirs custom done with special weighting and thickness and "burlier" buildup. The spec sheet Nancy sent me is a 30mm wide rim with a 25.8mm inner channel, 22mm height, and tubeless tire compatible.

    Is this the latest onthese wheels? For those who have been running these since May or June, how have they been holding up?

  30. #830
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    Wheels are awesome!

    I see it as very simple... Carbon does not bend, it breaks. Think of it like fiberglass.

    If you regularly dent your aluminum rims, you should stick with aluminum, or increase your tire pressures and go with carbon.
    Bend, Oregon

  31. #831
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisingrassia View Post
    Wow - OK, so I've spent the better part of this entire week reading these 34 pages for these carbon rims (on a personal note, reading through threads would be 100x easier if people got rid of their stupid massive signatures). I even emailed Nancy myself inquiring about certain items. It seems like some customers are more than happy with the wheels, while others have had theirs break, and others have been completely cold-shouldered by customer service warranty/return issues. What's the feeling on these wheels? They seem a bit hit-and-miss, and I read numerous posts where people have ordered theirs custom done with special weighting and thickness and "burlier" buildup. The spec sheet Nancy sent me is a 30mm wide rim with a 25.8mm inner channel, 22mm height, and tubeless tire compatible.

    Is this the latest onthese wheels? For those who have been running these since May or June, how have they been holding up?
    Been rolling on them since May. They've been in plenty of rocky areas and are holding up well. I mounted them tubeless with the Bontrager rim strip. Can't complain. My buddy blew one up by overinflating it way above the recommended max. I am very satisfied with my purchase.
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

  32. #832
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    Quote Originally Posted by thuren View Post
    Wheels are awesome!

    I see it as very simple... Carbon does not bend, it breaks. Think of it like fiberglass.

    If you regularly dent your aluminum rims, you should stick with aluminum, or increase your tire pressures and go with carbon.
    I'm running Easton Havocs with their hubs/spokes and Schwalbe 2.4 UST Fat Alberts. If I went with carbon rims and CK hubs, it seems like the wight savings for me would be negligible, maybe a hundred grams. I guess I could always swap out hubs later on though for further reductions. I think I'm gonna put in an order for the UD weave since it's the strongest. Good discussion guys - I really like the option of buying straight from the mftr.

    p.s. very jealous you're in Bend . My aunt/uncle moved there 4 years ago, and I have been desperately trying to find work there so I can move. Love that Deschutes River trail.

  33. #833
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    I have cracked two of these rims (rear wheel) on small hits through rock gardens while the front wheel has been going strong. You can see the pictures of the cracked rims and more details of my experience further up in this thread.

    My wheels have been ridden all over the Northeastern US, two weeks in Oregon, one week in Utah, and week in Phoenix and Sedona in the past six months.

    Oregon did not pose any issues on these rims as most of the riding there is quite smooth and primarily on dirt. It took one day of riding in Moab, preriding the Whole Enchilada enduro race course, to crack the first stock rim. One month later I cracked a reinforced rim riding an XC rocky trail in NY state.

    I gave up on these carbon rim in the rear and went back to Flow rims. In Sedona a few weeks ago, I was following a fast buddy on a fast descent through slickrock shelves and a steep roller became unexpectedly a 4ft drop to flat into kind of a hole for the rear wheel. I cringed but fortunately the Flow rim which just shrugged it off. Not even a small dent. And I was running 28psi on a Schwalbe HD tire setup tubeless. I weigh 165lbs, for the record.

    For my terrain and riding style, these rims are just too fragile. The stiffness was very nice but the hassle of rebuilding a wheel every couple of months is not worth it to me.

  34. #834
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    what is the difference in the weave patterns 12k, 3k, UD? any changes in strength? price on these is fantastic!

  35. #835
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOCRIGID View Post
    what is the difference in the weave patterns 12k, 3k, UD? any changes in strength? price on these is fantastic!
    Definitely a change in strength. Click on the question mark on Light Bicycle's website next to the weave pattern. It explains it.

  36. #836
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  37. #837
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    thanks!

  38. #838
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    Shouldn't be any difference in strength as they should all be UD but with a differing cosmetic cover ply of your choice, UD, 3k or 12K.

  39. #839
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    Quote Originally Posted by gvs_nz View Post
    Shouldn't be any difference in strength as they should all be UD but with a differing cosmetic cover ply of your choice, UD, 3k or 12K.
    Technically I guess this is correct. The wheel in its production phase is a UD construction. Question though: if I choose the UD matte/glossy, does the wheel come with a UD cover ply like you suggest, or does it come "raw" with just the UD build and no cover ply of an extra UD layer? In essence, if you get the 3k or 12k matte cover, you have a little bit of extra strength added to the wheel exterior, no?

  40. #840
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisingrassia View Post
    Definitely a change in strength. Click on the question mark on Light Bicycle's website next to the weave pattern. It explains it.
    Pretty sure the rims are mostly UD carbon, with the very most outer layer 3k or 12k if you specify. Honestly, I would want the external surfaces wrapped in 3k, and maybe a middle layer too from 3k, for delamination resistance. The 3k would cross the grain to prevent splitting. Kinda like splitting a piece of wood. If the grain changed direction, you would not get a long split. Hard to put what I mean in words.
    Bend, Oregon

  41. #841
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    Quote Originally Posted by thuren View Post
    Pretty sure the rims are mostly UD carbon, with the very most outer layer 3k or 12k if you specify. Honestly, I would want the external surfaces wrapped in 3k, and maybe a middle layer too from 3k, for delamination resistance. The 3k would cross the grain to prevent splitting. Kinda like splitting a piece of wood. If the grain changed direction, you would not get a long split. Hard to put what I mean in words.
    Did you have yours built this way? I have been in communication with Nancy for the past week, and just about to send an order. I did read somewhere that the 3k helps on the areas for the spoke/valve spots against possible delamination. Your suggestions make a lot of sense. I'll have to see if Nancy can accommodate something like this.

  42. #842
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisingrassia View Post
    Did you have yours built this way? I have been in communication with Nancy for the past week, and just about to send an order. I did read somewhere that the 3k helps on the areas for the spoke/valve spots against possible delamination. Your suggestions make a lot of sense. I'll have to see if Nancy can accommodate something like this.
    Here's the response I got from Nancy on this question:
    "We have one 3k layer inside the spoke holes, you can see it through the spoke holes.
    And if you order 3k rims, there will be another 3k layer on the top of rim. So, total is two layers of 3k carbon. Is it ok for you? If you like to order, we can make invoice for you.
    Thanks,
    Nancy"

    So it sounds like there actually is already two layers of 3k mixed in with the overall UD production.

  43. #843
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    Thanks for the info

    I have no input, just wanted to let all the posters know that I appreciate your discussion of these rims. Discussions were thorough and generally stayed on the topic (which, as you know, doesn't always happen). I am considering building an "AM" wheelset with carbon rims, but decided that the wider LB rims were not appropriate for what I want (riding over rocks and 3-foot drops). I will visit the thread occasionally to see what has developed.

    I'd rep all of you, but there are too many of you! So, virtual rep, and thanks again.

  44. #844
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    Quote Originally Posted by clydecrash View Post
    I have no input, just wanted to let all the posters know that I appreciate your discussion of these rims. Discussions were thorough and generally stayed on the topic (which, as you know, doesn't always happen). I am considering building an "AM" wheelset with carbon rims, but decided that the wider LB rims were not appropriate for what I want (riding over rocks and 3-foot drops). I will visit the thread occasionally to see what has developed.

    I'd rep all of you, but there are too many of you! So, virtual rep, and thanks again.
    I agree. The discussion here, with the exception of a jillion posts about shipment tracking, was very intuitive and informational. How come you say the wider 30mm rims aren't appropriate for an AM build? They have 24mm and 30mm sets. Is it just because of the fragility of carbon against rocks/drops? Those 30mm wheels should hold up crazy nice if you build them with good components.

  45. #845
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisingrassia View Post
    I agree. The discussion here, with the exception of a jillion posts about shipment tracking, was very intuitive and informational. How come you say the wider 30mm rims aren't appropriate for an AM build? They have 24mm and 30mm sets. Is it just because of the fragility of carbon against rocks/drops? Those 30mm wheels should hold up crazy nice if you build them with good components.
    Yeah, it is mostly about the rocks. A lot of my trails are mostly rocks, and this set will go on my Blur LTc that is built up heavy. While I try to float over the rocks as much as I can (the frame excels at that), I bash quite a bit too. And I am 260 lbs, which is close to their weight limit. But, like I said, I will visit this thread in the future, and I may change my mind. I am not in a hurry to build a new set, but can anytime (have King hubs ready, probably spokes too). One thing LB has going for it is that they can drill whatever holes I want, which in this case would be 36 for the rear and 32 for the front. So I will keep them in mind.

    I have a set of Reynolds AM Carbons on my more XC/Trail bike, and those have been impressive (very stiff). But I do not use that bike in the more rocky areas.

  46. #846
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    Are there any other asian carbon companies making 23mm+ rims (internal)?

    I'm close to pulling the trigger on these in matte UD, one regular strength, one extra stength with no internal spoke holes.
    Last edited by Lelandjt; 01-09-2013 at 03:31 AM.
    Keep the Country country.

  47. #847
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lelandjt View Post
    Are there any other asian carbon companies making 23mm+ rims (internal)?

    I'm close to pulling the trigger on these in matte UD, one regular strength, one extra stength with no internal spoke holes.
    I'd reckon there's hundreds. Whether you can get access to them, or they have websites or functioning CS dept's, I don't know. I'm hesitant to buy Chinese products at all, but the last 34 pgs of info and feedback have me considering these too. How do you install spokes if there's no spoke holes? I don't think LB has there magic carbon wheels avail yet =)

  48. #848
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    There's still external spoke holes but no internal ones on the rim bed. You thread a short bent piece of spoke into each nipple, drop them in the valve hole, use a magnet to move them to their spoke hole, and tweezers to pull them through. Tedious but with brass nipples it's a one time thing and it would be sweet to have no tape for tubeless.
    Keep the Country country.

  49. #849
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lelandjt View Post
    There's still external spoke holes but no internal ones on the rim bed. You thread a short bent piece of spoke into each nipple, drop them in the valve hole, use a magnet to move them to their spoke hole, and tweezers to pull them through. Tedious but with brass nipples it's a one time thing and it would be sweet to have no tape for tubeless.
    Not sure the distance between outer and inner part is deep enough to get the nipple turned and through the hole. The hole is quite deep as the carbon is thick in this area, also it's not extremely wide as I struggled to get some nipples through fully, needing some force. I would suggest getting them to check the measurement as feel you are heading for a headache and having to drill holes yourself!

  50. #850
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lelandjt View Post
    There's still external spoke holes but no internal ones on the rim bed. You thread a short bent piece of spoke into each nipple, drop them in the valve hole, use a magnet to move them to their spoke hole, and tweezers to pull them through. Tedious but with brass nipples it's a one time thing and it would be sweet to have no tape for tubeless.
    VERY interesting. I'm planning to run mine tubeless, and that's ingenious. Would practically be fail-safe and wouldn't have to mess with tape or rim strips. The magnet task would work through a carbon rim?

  51. #851
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    Well,yeah it will work... And there is more than enough space to do it. You can even buy a kit with 2mm threaded steel "bullets" made for doing exactly that. Less holes = more continuous fibers = stronger wheel. I will definitely do this on my next set.
    Go out and ride your bike


  52. #852
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisingrassia View Post
    VERY interesting. I'm planning to run mine tubeless, and that's ingenious. Would practically be fail-safe and wouldn't have to mess with tape or rim strips. The magnet task would work through a carbon rim?
    Magnetic fields aren't alter by non-ferrous metals (in general), so only the distance can have an impact on the strength of your magnet. And even more since carbon won't do anything to a magnetic field, you have nothing to worry about beside making sure you have a good magnet not to waste time.
    Quote Originally Posted by NicoleB28 View Post
    topless. that's what all mtb girls do. we go ride, get topless, have pillow fights in the woods, scissor, then ride home!

  53. #853
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    Apparently other people have ordered rims this way so there must be vertical room to flip the nipple and drop it through its hole. Can anyone dig up that cross section with all the measurements?
    Keep the Country country.

  54. #854
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    Here's the crossectional diagram I was given.
    gp1.pinkbike.org/p4pb8535632/p4pb8535632.jpg

    Scar

  55. #855
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    Quote Originally Posted by scar4me View Post
    Here's the crossectional diagram I was given.
    gp1.pinkbike.org/p4pb8535632/p4pb8535632.jpg

    Scar
    Here's the image

    26in chinese carbon all mountain rim-imageuploadedbytapatalk1357824816.933235.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by NicoleB28 View Post
    topless. that's what all mtb girls do. we go ride, get topless, have pillow fights in the woods, scissor, then ride home!

  56. #856
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lelandjt View Post
    Apparently other people have ordered rims this way so there must be vertical room to flip the nipple and drop it through its hole. Can anyone dig up that cross section with all the measurements?
    I can provide this as well. I emailed Nancy about this yesterday night actually, and here is the discussion:

    Me: "Just one more question. Please see the attached diagram, where I'm asking for a measurement of something on the rim."
    Nancy: "Hello Christ, It is 8mm. Thanks, Nancy"

    8mm doesn't sound right to me. By process of elimination, you start with 22mm rim height - 8.5mm rim bed to bead top = 13.5mm possible. Then you subtract the lower rim wall thickness (which may be 4mm???), and I'm left with 9.5mm nipple well. Even if a 9.5mm well is accurate, that's not enough space to get nipples through the spoke hole, is it? Most nipples are 12-16mm length, so I'd like to hear how some got the nipples through those holes when the well is 8mm, possibly 9.5mm.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 26in chinese carbon all mountain rim-mtb-26er-wider-rim-30mm-width-geometry-profile.jpg  


  57. #857
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisingrassia View Post
    I can provide this as well. I emailed Nancy about this yesterday night actually, and here is the discussion:

    Me: "Just one more question. Please see the attached diagram, where I'm asking for a measurement of something on the rim."
    Nancy: "Hello Christ, It is 8mm. Thanks, Nancy"

    8mm doesn't sound right to me. By process of elimination, you start with 22mm rim height - 8.5mm rim bed to bead top = 13.5mm possible. Then you subtract the lower rim wall thickness (which may be 4mm???), and I'm left with 9.5mm nipple well. Even if a 9.5mm well is accurate, that's not enough space to get nipples through the spoke hole, is it? Most nipples are 12-16mm length, so I'd like to hear how some got the nipples through those holes when the well is 8mm, possibly 9.5mm.
    Like a box spring or mattress coming down a hallway and into a side door, enter it at an angle...
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  58. #858
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattsavage View Post
    Like a box spring or mattress coming down a hallway and into a side door, enter it at an angle...
    I'm no engineer, but the angle you mention has to be adequate. The mattress can bend, the nipples and boxspring cannot. For a 12-16mm nipple, we'd need enough play in the angle to make up for 4-7mm of lost height. People with these wheels can confirm they're running the wheels with no spoke holes? Did you have to use shorter nipples than 14/16mm?

  59. #859
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lelandjt View Post
    There's still external spoke holes but no internal ones on the rim bed. You thread a short bent piece of spoke into each nipple, drop them in the valve hole, use a magnet to move them to their spoke hole, and tweezers to pull them through. Tedious but with brass nipples it's a one time thing and it would be sweet to have no tape for tubeless.
    Hi all, first post but been following this thread and the 29" rim thread. Like the idea of this, and as mentioned previously, fewer drilled holes also means fewer broken carbon fibres, which should give more rim strength?

    Was also wondering as many have mentioned the spoke holes are all drilled dead centre of the rim, resulting in the spoke nipples bending the spokes. What about receiving the rim undrilled, and drilling yourself? This would allow the holes to be drilled at the correct angle for the nipple/spoke angle. I believe that the result could be a stronger rim as the spoke holes would be staggered instead of in a straight line.

    Has anyone had the rim only drilled on the inside, and fed the nipples in through the valve hole? Seen a few posts of the idea, but not any feedback of weather it has been achieved, and with any success.

  60. #860
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    Well, I guess that is settled... 8mm is the correct number. Guess it won't work after all. Also note the 3K layer inside- these are a UD finish rim with paint done by light-bicycle. So two facts checked in one post.
    Go out and ride your bike


  61. #861
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    I just sent Nancy an email asking if there's enough room to maneuver nipples into their holes without rim bed holes. She said they've made rims this way but I was more explicit this time asking if it had worked out for the wheel builders. I always use 12mm nipples so I'd expect to need 11mm vertical space.
    Keep the Country country.

  62. #862
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    There is more than 8mm from other angles, that is just the minimum dimension under the U in the channel. I'm a little surprised by this. The rim is pretty thick, and the holes are very square, meaning the entry angle will have to be straight. I was sure it would work, and took it on faith from Nancy... but I bet she was referring to their deep-section road wheels, not the wide 26" wheels! Well, facepalm me for advocating the idea earlier. It just made so much sense... My next order will be through drilled as well.
    Go out and ride your bike


  63. #863
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    Quote Originally Posted by eurotrash666 View Post
    There is more than 8mm from other angles, that is just the minimum dimension under the U in the channel. I'm a little surprised by this. The rim is pretty thick, and the holes are very square, meaning the entry angle will have to be straight. I was sure it would work, and took it on faith from Nancy... but I bet she was referring to their deep-section road wheels, not the wide 26" wheels! Well, facepalm me for advocating the idea earlier. It just made so much sense... My next order will be through drilled as well.
    Phew, thank god I didn't order mine without rim bed holes. It is too bad though, as it would have been ideal for strength. I was skeptical about the nipples being able to "angle in." I'm a little confused on what you're showing in that pic though, are you actively measuring something or just showing the digital readout?

  64. #864
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisingrassia View Post
    Phew, thank god I didn't order mine without rim bed holes. It is too bad though, as it would have been ideal for strength. I was skeptical about the nipples being able to "angle in." I'm a little confused on what you're showing in that pic though, are you actively measuring something or just showing the digital readout?
    I'm measuring an invisible spoke nipple... ha, just showing the DRO.
    Go out and ride your bike


  65. #865
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    From talking to Nancy it doesn't sound like 12mm nipples will work without rim bed holes but she claims to have made rims like that in 650b. I'm trying to find the 650b thread so ask if someone there did it and what nipples they used but can't find it, help?
    Keep the Country country.

  66. #866
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lelandjt View Post
    From talking to Nancy it doesn't sound like 12mm nipples will work without rim bed holes but she claims to have made rims like that in 650b. I'm trying to find the 650b thread so ask if someone there did it and what nipples they used but can't find it, help?
    Might be something in these, but I don't recall that conversation...

    Carbon rims...
    Light Bicycles Carbon Wheelset with DT Swiss Hubs?
    "I wrote a hit play! What have you ever done?!"

    Have Ashtray, Will Travel....

  67. #867
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    Wow there really is alot of information here.

    Ok i have some questions.

    Where do you order these from?
    Tubeless?
    Have they been breaking?

    Oh goodie i can't wait to get some haha!!
    Ride it like you won't get another chance.

  68. #868
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lelandjt View Post
    From talking to Nancy it doesn't sound like 12mm nipples will work without rim bed holes but she claims to have made rims like that in 650b. I'm trying to find the 650b thread so ask if someone there did it and what nipples they used but can't find it, help?
    I did just see this one... Cheap Chinese carbon rim fail?
    "I wrote a hit play! What have you ever done?!"

    Have Ashtray, Will Travel....

  69. #869
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    I am about to pull the trigger on a set. I think I will just have them build with the Novatec hubs. I have a 2010 Specialized Enduro and will be getting another bike within a year. I was planning on ordering the 881/882 hubs, which I think should work fine. 20mm thru axle in the front and a QR 10x135 in the rear.

    Brian says these hubs won't fit my bike. What are the best Novatec hubs to put on these wheels? Going with the wider rims.

  70. #870
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  71. #871
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lelandjt View Post
    There's still external spoke holes but no internal ones on the rim bed. You thread a short bent piece of spoke into each nipple, drop them in the valve hole, use a magnet to move them to their spoke hole, and tweezers to pull them through. Tedious but with brass nipples it's a one time thing and it would be sweet to have no tape for tubeless.
    Could you use something like is used to fish electrical wires through walls?
    Send it through the valve hole, then hook a string to it at the spoke hole. Pull that to the valve hole, attach your nipple and pull it to the spoke hole.

    Given clearance inside the rim for the nipple to make the turn into the spoke hole, of course.

  72. #872
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    That's the problem, not e nouh vertical clearence to let the nipple make the turn into the hole. Getting it to that point is done with either strings or magnet/ bit of spoke/tweezers.
    Keep the Country country.

  73. #873
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    Do you guys think they would be willing to actually make a third version, the 26" wide tubeless ready with no outside drilling, just so we could all have a stronger and easier to set up tubeless wheel ?

    I guess that if there is enough demand, they'll look into it.
    Quote Originally Posted by NicoleB28 View Post
    topless. that's what all mtb girls do. we go ride, get topless, have pillow fights in the woods, scissor, then ride home!

  74. #874
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    Quote Originally Posted by clydecrash View Post
    (have King hubs ready, probably spokes too).
    At your size, if you ride fast, you might want to reconsider King hubs. They're 100% reliable for 95% of riders, and 0% reliable for the rest of us.

    I've been following this thread, but decided I'd break these rims within a couple months. Oh well, I guess good, strong, reliable carbon rims are still a few years away. But I'm convinced they're coming. Sounds like we need something less stiff, but more resistant to cracking.

  75. #875
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    Hey Folks,

    just a quick thank you for all the information here...
    here's my front wheel, 24hole (367g), Sapim CX-Ray straight pull, recycled SunRingle Charger Hubs.


  76. #876
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    Good job! nice

    Quote Originally Posted by raschaa View Post
    Hey Folks,

    just a quick thank you for all the information here...
    here's my front wheel, 24hole (367g), Sapim CX-Ray straight pull, recycled SunRingle Charger Hubs.

    i was planing on doing the same thing did you build the rear as well

  77. #877
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    I just finished building up my Light-Bicycle AM rims. I asked for a 385g front and 400g rear rim. They were 383 & 406 which is impressively close. I skimped $$$ compared to bladed spokes and went with my normal DT Competition spokes and alloy nips (185g, 10g per 32). These are for a 20mm/142mm bike so I used my standard Atomlab Pimplite/DT 240 hub combo (177g, 240g). 1596g for $770 (hubs & spokes at near wholesale and no labor charge so $900-$1000 retail as a wheelset). They drop just over 1/2lb from my Hope/Flow EX wheelset that I sold for $400*.

    *Was that a good deal for my neighbor? They were in new condition and I guessed that would be a fair price for both of us.
    Keep the Country country.

  78. #878
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    Quote Originally Posted by shade13 View Post
    i was planing on doing the same thing did you build the rear as well
    Yo... rear is Sapim Race/CX-Ray


  79. #879
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    very very nice ,,,could i borrow spoke length you ware using ? for front and rear

  80. #880
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    Quote Originally Posted by shade13 View Post
    very very nice ,,,could i borrow spoke length you ware using ? for front and rear
    sure! but let me tell you, calculating straight-pull spokes is a PITA. took me roundabout 8 hours til I was confident enough to order the spokes (CX-Ray are NOT cheap^^). there is no real mathematical formula to get them exactly right because the position of the spoke heads is not on a "classic" determined flange circumference.

    I used "Spokomat" (http://radtechnik.dyndns.org/spokomat.html#), Site is in German but the prog can be switched to english. It's really excellent, but advanced^^. The programmer/biker had some good tips on how to calculate straight-pull. In the end I started with the original Charger specs (ERD, hub geo measured) and iterated in the software til I got the original spoke lengths (with straight-pull you calculate with 2.5 crossing^^). then switched to the ERD I had measured of the carbon rims. You would have to check yours first anyways. I recycled the longest front spokes for rear nondrive side. rest then CX-Ray...

    will get the spoke lengths to you this evening or tomorrow morning (+1 GMT) cause I am at work now...

  81. #881
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    Hey,

    Original ChargerPro specs:
    ERD(measured): 533
    Spokelengths (as stated by SunRingle Support):
    Front 265/266
    Rear 265/263

    after a lot of brainstorming I got the following:
    LB standard rim (362g) ERD 539
    LB heavier rim (402g) ERD 540

    Spokes:

    Front 267.3@1300N 268.8@800N
    Rear 268.6@750N 266.5@1200N

    I took the original 266 from front right to rear right (thinner spokes won't work here because of the tension needed for a stable build) and decided to take 2 20pc. packs of 268 CX-Ray (with nipples) and would have 4 backup spokes. Ordered another 20 original Sapim 14mm polyax nipples in black for the "old" spokes and a few backup.

    Build was actually quite easy, dropped all the nipples in a cup of linseed oil to lubricate during tensioning and afterward the oil acts as threadlock. hit the tensions I wanted spot on with very little fluctuation... spoke lengths filled the nipples nicely

    good luck
    Last edited by raschaa; 02-06-2013 at 10:21 AM.

  82. #882
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lelandjt View Post
    I just finished building up my Light-Bicycle AM rims. I asked for a 385g front and 400g rear rim. They were 383 & 406 which is impressively close. I skimped $$$ compared to bladed spokes and went with my normal DT Competition spokes and alloy nips (185g, 10g per 32). These are for a 20mm/142mm bike so I used my standard Atomlab Pimplite/DT 240 hub combo (177g, 240g). 1596g for $770 (hubs & spokes at near wholesale and no labor charge so $900-$1000 retail as a wheelset). They drop just over 1/2lb from my Hope/Flow EX wheelset that I sold for $400*.

    *Was that a good deal for my neighbor? They were in new condition and I guessed that would be a fair price for both of us.
    nice, I've got a pair of rims sitting in my office waiting to be weighed and built up! I asked for 400g rims, building up around DT 240s front and rear. debating spending the cash on Sapim CX Rays (seem to be half the price of DT Aeroblades) or just doing DT Comps. anyone know the weight diff per wheel? 25-50g I'm guessing. also debating allow versus brass nips. the thread with the corroded nips on Enve rims has me second guessing alloy. what's the weight penalty for brass nips?

  83. #883
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardboiled View Post
    Debating brass nips. the thread with the corroded nips on Enve rims has me second guessing alloy. what's the weight penalty for brass nips?
    Actually after initially lacing and weighing with alloy nips I decided on brass and swapped them out before tensioning it all up. I could see that the spokes weren't gonna extend up to the top of the nipples and I've broken a few alloy nips when laced with spokes this length, just above the top of the spoke right at the nipple's mushroom. If the spokes were long enough to thread right to the end of the nipple I was gonna keep the alloy but that extra few mm of spoke length kind of offsets the weight difference. The weight difference for 32 nips was 20g. I did it because these rims allow high spoke tension which I wanted to take advantage of. I've only broken a few alloy nips over 20 years of riding but those wheels all had less tension than these and I just didn't want to have to worry about it. If your rims are set up with tubeless tape changing a broken nipple is a real pain.
    Last edited by Lelandjt; 02-06-2013 at 11:11 PM.
    Keep the Country country.

  84. #884
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardboiled View Post
    ... debating spending the cash on Sapim CX Rays (seem to be half the price of DT Aeroblades) or just doing DT Comps. anyone know the weight diff per wheel? 25-50g I'm guessing. also debating allow versus brass nips. the thread with the corroded nips on Enve rims has me second guessing alloy. what's the weight penalty for brass nips?
    as a "rule of thumb" you save 1.1g per spoke CX-Ray vs. 2-1.8-2, 64pc. 14mm alloy nips ca. 40g saved vs. brass. I see no reason to use brass nips if the spoke length is correct, which it should be in any case. Sapim and DT alloy nips are made of anodized 7075 T6 Alu. drop them in a cup of linseed oil before building (ok, you get oily fingers and rims^^) but that will help during tensioning, acts as a light threadlock and protects the contact between spoke and nipple at the threads where you "could" get some contact corrosion because of differing materials. DT prolock nips are a pita because they distort tensioning feel and make re-truing more difficult than necessary. Would recommend 14mm nips because the inner rim walls are quite thick. been using Sapim polyax for 10 years in german rain, snow, salt, never had corrosion even after 3-4 years.... btw, tensile strength of 7075 alu is above that of brass^^ I have no idea what kind of nips those enve were and what happened to them, but they look like raw alu immersed in sea water for ages...

    notubes rimstrip is supposedly made by TESA, a 50m roll of Tesa strapping tape is enough for about 25 rims, removes residue free and costs ~10euros here in germany, so thats a non issue in my eyes...

    Oh, and you HAVE to have a top notch perfect fitting spokewrench...
    justmy2

  85. #885
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    I totally agree with Lelandjt. Lightweight race equipment is meant to be raced, and generally does not have a very long life. Alloy nipples are a perfect example of this- there is a benefit to reducing rotating mass at the cost of longevity on race day. Is that appropriate for someone who burns a wheelset every season? Probably. Is it appropriate for a dedicated hobbyist who wants the most from his equipment? Probably not... In nearly 30 years of cycling as my number one activity, I've maintained all sorts of wheelsets. I can say that in my experience, wheels with aluminum nipples need more frequent tensioning, and show wear on the nipple seats, threads, and wrench flats. I favor brass for strength and durability, and would prefer to get two or three seasons out of a wheelset if possible!

    Here, elasticity and plasticity are better with brass than aluminum- it's not all about tensile strength.
    Go out and ride your bike


  86. #886
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    for all of you who wondered if this carbon rims any good for DH.....

    here is, me and my friend Dan riding ours turners DHR's with this carbon rims on both our bikes.

    I Love it Video - Pinkbike


    and here are some photos of my DHR

    Yossi_Sarusi's Turner - Yossi_Sarusi's Bike Check - Vital MTB

  87. #887
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    [QUOTE=saruti;10156144]for all of you who wondered if this carbon rims any good for DH.....

    here is, me and my friend Dan riding ours turners DHR's with this carbon rims on both our bikes.

    I Love it Video - Pinkbike


    and here are some photos of my DHR

    Nice work...got me wanting to go out & get a new DH bike...

  88. #888
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    That's dope! Love the flow bike is hot in the tennis ball yellow. I have a set of these rims on my Stumpy evo but after seeing you rock them on your dh bike I may have to throw them on my Dh rig.

  89. #889
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    Have here anybody expiriences with the Nancy Wheels and Onza Tires?
    Tried to mount an Onza Canis with the Tesa YellowTape but failed. Never had this before. I ride Tubeless since Years and never had problems like now.
    The Tire (Onza Canis 2.25FR) absolutely not pops in its correct seat.
    Tried it with soapy water, with and without milk, sqeezed and massaged The Tire while inflating and many more tricks which were succesfull The last times.
    But nothing worked here?
    Is here the last possibilty the Bontystrip?
    Or have somebody another Tricks or hints?

  90. #890
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    I have Onza Greina 2,25 120tpi up front and Ibex 2,25 in back. Both were no problem with Stans tape....

  91. #891
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    Managed to get my 3k matt finish rim to delaminate yesterday .
    Pics:
    pinkbike.com/photo/9219678/
    pinkbike.com/photo/9219682/

    Not running silly tyre pressure, or hitting rocks/silly terrain.
    Happened on a high speed loamy corner, 35PSI in a 2.4 Nobby Nic, heard a crack and started loosing tyre pressure.
    Delaminated on the 3k weave at the edge of the bead, and leaked sealant through the weave!
    Won't seal tubeless now on anything higher than 10PSI .
    Time to speak to Nancy....

    Scar

  92. #892
    bike rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterXT View Post
    Have here anybody expiriences with the Nancy Wheels and Onza Tires?
    Tried to mount an Onza Canis with the Tesa YellowTape but failed. Never had this before. I ride Tubeless since Years and never had problems like now.
    The Tire (Onza Canis 2.25FR) absolutely not pops in its correct seat.
    Tried it with soapy water, with and without milk, sqeezed and massaged The Tire while inflating and many more tricks which were succesfull The last times.
    But nothing worked here?
    Is here the last possibilty the Bontystrip?
    Or have somebody another Tricks or hints?
    I swapped some Conti MKII 2.4"s from Flow rims where they could sometimes be seated with a floor pump and instantly seated with a compressor to these LB rims. The shape of the rim channel isn't as good and they weren't inflating (high capacity compressor at 115psi) so I had to remove the valve core to increase air flow. That did it and they seated and sealed right up. No air loss since. So they don't mount tubeless quite as easily as Notubes or UST rims but still better than some.
    Keep the Country country.

  93. #893
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    @Raschaa: exactly my Fall and Spring combination which i ride actually on a Flow. When it becomes dryer i would like to ride the Ibex in front and the Canis in rear on the LB-Rims.

    @lelandjt: yes, i removed the valve Core and i have here in the Shop a Big compressor with enough power.

    Next week i start the next try with two layers of DuctTape. Maybe this is enough.

  94. #894
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    26in chinese carbon all mountain rim

    Quote Originally Posted by scar4me View Post
    Managed to get my 3k matt finish rim to delaminate yesterday .
    Scar
    That sucks! It looks like the 3k layer is coming up in the pics, but it's gotta be straight through if you lost air and sealant. If warranty doesn't pan out, I would try working some polyester epoxy into the split and sticking to XC... Bummer, dude!
    Go out and ride your bike


  95. #895
    yet another stupid german
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    yo, bummer4sure, keep us posted on how LB treat you...

  96. #896
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    Finally i got it!
    Put two layers of ole Tesa DuctTape in the rim (i cut it a little bit wider, about 27mm), used the AirPort direct on the compressor and filled direct milk in the tire.
    And it worked!

    Thanks for all tipps!

  97. #897
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    My rear wheel came apart in two places (looks a lot like scar's pic above)
    Been 10 days and have sent 3 emails with pics to Nancy, Brian, support and no effing response.

  98. #898
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disco Stu View Post
    My rear wheel came apart in two places (looks a lot like scar's pic above)
    Been 10 days and have sent 3 emails with pics to Nancy, Brian, support and no effing response.
    Chinese New Year. They should be back to work any day now.

  99. #899
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    Starting to see more issues with these wheels. They have improved the manufacturing process for their 29er and 650b wheels, but have not yet done this for the 26" wheels. Brian has said they will probably make the change at some point. I am hoping sooner rather than later as I have been holding off buying a set until the new manufacturing process starts.

  100. #900
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    Quote Originally Posted by scar4me View Post
    Managed to get my 3k matt finish rim to delaminate yesterday .
    Pics:
    pinkbike.com/photo/9219678/
    pinkbike.com/photo/9219682/

    Not running silly tyre pressure, or hitting rocks/silly terrain.
    Happened on a high speed loamy corner, 35PSI in a 2.4 Nobby Nic, heard a crack and started loosing tyre pressure.
    Delaminated on the 3k weave at the edge of the bead, and leaked sealant through the weave!
    Won't seal tubeless now on anything higher than 10PSI .
    Time to speak to Nancy....

    Scar
    Not trying to assign any blame here, but that is a pretty high pressure for a tubeless tire of that size. Might want to think about dialing it down a bit in future.

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