• 09-02-2014
    David C
    26in chinese carbon all mountain rim
    My front rim plug also failed, I emailed LB about it and it's going to their engineers. Should have a reply in the next days regarding replacement (rims were delivered a week short from 12 months now). Otherwise the wheels have been flawless and makes the bike awesome.
  • 09-02-2014
    Swissam
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Shredman69 View Post
    I think that system defeats the purpose of having a light weight tubeless wheel. That system just adds un necessary weight and complexity. A wide carbon hookless rim is strong and has an increased air volume so you can run lower pressures for better traction without worrying about pinch flats. Because the rim is wider and hookless with tighter tolerances, there is no burping or rolling the tire on the rim either. I've yet to burp or roll the tire on the rim with these new wheels even when railing high speed turns and lower pressures, (20-22 in front and 25-28 in the rear). I love these wheels. And for those that don't know, Light Bikes is now making 38mm wide X 32mm deep 26" rims. I ordered mine a couple days ago, so I'll post how they are when I get them.:thumbsup:

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by hssp View Post
    If you normally run Super Gravity tires, you can go for normal tires without worrying about rock strikes etc. So if you run normal tires just fine, the ProCore system is not for you.

    At 200g a piece your right that it's not worth it for an AM rig but for a DH rig it's manageable. If they weighed 50g a piece then that's a whole other story and would be totally acceptable for AM. Especially in the Alps.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by David C View Post
    My front rim plug also failed, I emailed LB about it and it's going to their engineers. Should have a reply in the next days regarding replacement (rims were delivered a week short from 12 months now). Otherwise the wheels have been flawless and makes the bike awesome.

    Was this one of the new hookless rims?
  • 09-02-2014
    702Biff
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by David C View Post
    I didn't wanted to have to tape the rim for tubeless.
    Attachment 899094

    Attachment 899095

    I'm trying to figure out how I want to go tubless with my LB hookless 33mm wide DH rims. How do you not use rim tape? Don't you have to cover the spoke holes?
  • 09-02-2014
    mestapho
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by 702Biff View Post
    I'm trying to figure out how I want to go tubless with my LB hookless 33mm wide DH rims. How do you not use rim tape? Don't you have to cover the spoke holes?

    Have them made without interior spoke holes.
  • 09-02-2014
    702Biff
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mestapho View Post
    Have them made without interior spoke holes.

    I assume this is a joke? I am kinda new to this but how to install nipples then? And I didn't know that was an option.
  • 09-02-2014
    mestapho
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by 702Biff View Post
    I assume this is a joke? I am kinda new to this but how to install nipples then? And I didn't know that was an option.

    Not a joke. You insert them through the valve hole and with a magnet or other methods fish them around to where they go.
  • 09-02-2014
    702Biff
    OK. I see, everyone wants to be the funny guy.......
  • 09-02-2014
    mestapho
  • 09-02-2014
    702Biff
    WOW!

    That is absolutely nuts. I am quite sure I don't have the patience for that (no rubik's cube or little ball rolling thru the maze games for me either). By the way... aluminum & brass are non-ferrous, magnet won't work.

    Apologies for the comedian comment 8>)
  • 09-02-2014
    702Biff
    Hmmmm..... Actually after some thought, if you were to fish some heavy fishing line through the spoke hole to the valve hole and thru the nipple you could fish it in then just clip the line leaving a small piece of line in the wheel which could likely be retrieved if so desired. That wouldn't be sooooo crazy I recon.
  • 09-02-2014
    mestapho
    26in chinese carbon all mountain rim
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by 702Biff View Post
    WOW!

    That is absolutely nuts. I am quite sure I don't have the patience for that (no rubik's cube or little ball rolling thru the maze games for me either). By the way... aluminum & brass are non-ferrous, magnet won't work.

    Apologies for the comedian comment 8>)

    There a little steel doohickey they make that threads into the nipple for this purpose. However, for whatever reason, a magnet will help move an AL nipple in the rim. I had to do this when I dropped a couple into the spoke hole. Not enough to pull it out, but enough to hold it still so I could get it aligned with the valve hole and drop it out. Shouldn't work, but it did. Must be a little iron in the alloy.
  • 09-02-2014
    702Biff
    Ahhh. Steel doohickey...even better idea.

    Boy...learn sumthin new every day!
  • 09-02-2014
    mestapho
    See here
  • 09-02-2014
    702Biff
    :thumbsup:
  • 09-03-2014
    Lelandjt
    Only the deep section DH rims can be done without internal nipple holes. All the other LB rims including their newest, widest model don't have enough internal vertical room. If you do the non-drilled style I recommend the derailleur cable method that I outlined previously in this thread.
  • 09-03-2014
    702Biff
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Lelandjt View Post
    I recommend the derailleur cable method that I outlined previously in this thread.

    This thread is quite large. Could you please re-post the method you recommend?
    Thanks!
  • 09-03-2014
    Lelandjt
    Stick derailleur cable in the spoke hole and push till you see it from the interior valve hole (if it seems like it should be there but you don't see it spin it and you'll see it).
    Grab it with tweezers and pull it up out of the interior valve hole.
    Slide a nipple on and use gravity and shaking to slide the nipple to the spoke hole.
    Position the rim so gravity helps bring the nipple through the hole and push on either end of the cable to arch it inside and position the nipple to slide out the spoke hole.

    I can lace a rim like this in an hour or so cuz it sometimes slides right into place or you sometimes have to jiggle it a while. Basically 1 to 2 minutes a nipple plus whatever time it takes you to figure out where to go next and lace the spoke through.

    It would be hard to justify spending the money to have a wheel builder do this cuz it only saves a couple grams and good tape jobs rarely leak. If you're building your own wheels it's a cool little feature to add.
  • 09-04-2014
    702Biff
    Great!

    As you say it's not totally necessary but I think I'll do this on my next LB wheel build. Currently my tires are so tight against the inside of the rim that it's easy to mess up the tape job + it will make for slightly easier tire mounting.
  • 09-05-2014
    David C
    26in chinese carbon all mountain rim
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Swissam View Post

    Was this one of the new hookless rims?

    Nope, one of the first batch of the 33mm wide rims. It appears that the tube pushing against the rim bed broke off the plug, as it only occurred after I ran tubes in, not while I was going tubeless.
  • 09-11-2014
    chrisingrassia
    I just had to order some new 33mm hookless wheels due to bike theft. I'm curious though, are you guys still running a UST tire considering that there is no longer a bead seat?

    I'm really curious to try out some Conti Trail King 2.2's.....but not sure if I should go the UST route or not based on the hookless....
  • 09-11-2014
    Lelandjt
    No longer a bead seat? It still has a central channel and a shelf the bead pops up onto right (that's what I'd call the bead seat)? All that's changed is the lack of a hook at the top of the sidewall, which has been deemed unnecessary and weakening...right? On the 33mm and 35mm rims I've run Maxxis DH casing and Exo casing tires. Some of the Exo casings said "TR" some didn't.
  • 09-11-2014
    chrisingrassia
    Sorry, perhaps "seat" wasn't the right word. Ultimately, I just want to make sure that somehow somewhere I didn't miss where hookless rims are supposed to now use hookless tires or something. Just curious.

    Sounds like standard UST tires should be fine.
  • 09-11-2014
    Shredman69
    U don't need UST tires. They heavier and unnessary. Any tires will do. I've never used UST tires on my hooked or hookless rims and have never had any issues.
  • 09-11-2014
    chrisingrassia
    Wait...what? If I want to run my wheels tubeless, why wouldn't I run UST tires? I couldn't run a clincher tire on a hookless rim, so what option does that leave me?
  • 09-11-2014
    Shredman69
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by chrisingrassia View Post
    Wait...what? If I want to run my wheels tubeless, why wouldn't I run UST tires? I couldn't run a clincher tire on a hookless rim, so what option does that leave me?

    LOL, I've been running tubeless since 06 and I've never run UST tires, just regular, (clincher) tires. UST tires are way heavier than it's regular counter part. The beads are the same, but UST use more rubber and they're not porous. Most tires nowadays, are tubeless ready though, still lighter than UST. I currently have 2 sets of 33 wide hookless wheels and a pair of 38 wide hookless on the way..
  • 09-11-2014
    chrisingrassia
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Shredman69 View Post
    LOL, I've been running tubeless since 06 and I've never run UST tires, just regular tires. UST tires are way heavier then it's regular counter part. The beads are the same, but UST use more rubber and they're not porous. Most tires nowadays, are tubeless ready though, still lighter than UST.

    My understanding is that UST tires don't need to run sealant....bonus. They're not porous and don't leak air while sitting in the garage....bonus. They are heavier....bummer.

    You're saying that a clincher tire and UST tire have the exact same beads? I could run a clincher tire on these hookless LB rims?
  • 09-11-2014
    skyno
    You don't need "UST" tires, which is a strict standard and they are very heavy and bulky, but if you ride at all aggressively I would strongly recommend only running some type of tubeless compatible tire (TCS, 2bliss, etc.) - I believe the difference is that with true UST the seal is so tight and the tires so thick that sealant is actually optional, but with all the other systems sealant is needed

    I have tried running tires that are not compatible several times always with disastrous results!
  • 09-11-2014
    Shredman69
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by chrisingrassia View Post
    My understanding is that UST tires don't need to run sealant....bonus. They're not porous and don't leak air while sitting in the garage....bonus. They are heavier....bummer.

    You're saying that a clincher tire and UST tire have the exact same beads? I could run a clincher tire on these hookless LB rims?

    Yes, you can run a regular "clincher" tire tubless on a hookless rim. I currently have 2 sets of 33 wide hookless wheels and a pair of 38 wide hookless on the way.. I run low pressures and I ride them aggressively and I haven't had any issues. I have raced DH on them and I've recently been to Mammoth and Snow Summit bike parks, again without any problems. 2oz of Stan's per tire is what I use.
  • 09-11-2014
    Lelandjt
    A thicker casing is definitely a plus for aggressive riding. Whether that's UST, double ply DH, or "1& 1/2 ply" enduro style casings like Exo. I'm even starting to think Maxxis Exos are too skimpy. The LB rims have a pretty secure fit so any bead works well. It's more an issue of sidewall support at lowish pressures.
  • 09-12-2014
    chrisingrassia
    So let me get this straight. You're saying that clincher and UST tires can both be run tubeless on a hookless rim? The only structural difference is that UST tires are essentially a thicker (and, thus, heavier) design, enabling them to be run w/o sealant? And the UST tires have a thicker/stronger sidewall to prevent burps/blowouts?

    I thought clincher tires had no bead, while UST tires did....which were needed to run tubeless. That's why I've run UST tires for the past couple years. My Fat Albert's definitely were very heavy, and it would be nice to run a lighter tire on the hookless setup. I wouldn't consider my riding highly aggressive by any means.
  • 09-12-2014
    Shredman69
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by chrisingrassia View Post
    So let me get this straight. You're saying that clincher and UST tires can both be run tubeless on a hookless rim? The only structural difference is that UST tires are essentially a thicker (and, thus, heavier) design, enabling them to be run w/o sealant? And the UST tires have a thicker/stronger sidewall to prevent burps/blowouts?

    Yes, except the burps part. Because the LB hookless rims are wide and have a really tight rim bed, they don't burp, regardless if the tire is regular or UST.


    I thought clincher tires had no bead, while UST tires did....which were needed to run tubeless. That's why I've run UST tires for the past couple years. My Fat Albert's definitely were very heavy, and it would be nice to run a lighter tire on the hookless setup. I wouldn't consider my riding highly aggressive by any means.

    Clincher tires do have a bead, folding or wire.

    What's a Clincher Tire? | Road Bike Rider
  • 09-12-2014
    chrisingrassia
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Shredman69 View Post
    Clincher tires do have a bead, folding or wire.

    What's a Clincher Tire? | Road Bike Rider

    "In a clincher, wire or Kevlar runs along the edge on either side of the tire. This "bead" fits under the hooked inner edge of the rim when the tube is inflated. It holds the tire in place"

    So if the rim doesn't have a hooked inner edge, like these new LB rims, nothing holds the tire on except just the "tightness" of the internal diameter of the tire. Thus, since UST tires are made with a much tighter ID tolerance, I would expect that UST tires would be a better choice for hookless rims.

    Sorry guys, unless I'm clearly missing something....
  • 09-12-2014
    702Biff
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by chrisingrassia View Post

    So if the rim doesn't have a hooked inner edge, like these new LB rims, nothing holds the tire on except just the "tightness" of the internal diameter of the tire. Thus, since UST tires are made with a much tighter ID tolerance, I would expect that UST tires would be a better choice for hookless rims.

    Sorry guys, unless I'm clearly missing something....


    From my experience with LB rims - they are "tubeless ready". Fitting any tire is extremely tight. I believe it is impossible to mount some brands of tires. I could no way mount a Kenda tire on them for example. So tight in fact that preserving a good tape job is quite difficult. I will buy them again but next time have them NOT drill the inner spoke holes so as to eliminate the tape problem. I do really like the performance of these rims.
  • 09-12-2014
    chrisingrassia
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by 702Biff View Post
    From my experience with LB rims - they are "tubeless ready". Fitting any tire is extremely tight. I believe it is impossible to mount some brands of tires. I could no way mount a Kenda tire on them for example. So tight in fact that preserving a good tape job is quite difficult. I will buy them again but next time have them NOT drill the inner spoke holes so as to eliminate the tape problem. I do really like the performance of these rims.

    That's what I had them do on my first set I ordered from then. You'll be in for a real treat getting those laced up :)
  • 09-12-2014
    702Biff
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by chrisingrassia View Post
    That's what I had them do on my first set I ordered from then. You'll be in for a real treat getting those laced up :)

    So then from your experience would you prefer to tape or order non drilled?
  • 09-12-2014
    Shredman69
    2 Attachment(s)
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by 702Biff View Post
    From my experience with LB rims - they are "tubeless ready". Fitting any tire is extremely tight. I believe it is impossible to mount some brands of tires. I could no way mount a Kenda tire on them for example. So tight in fact that preserving a good tape job is quite difficult. I will buy them again but next time have them NOT drill the inner spoke holes so as to eliminate the tape problem. I do really like the performance of these rims.

    I've mounted Kenda, Maxxis and Intense tires on my LB 33mm wide hookless rims without issue. Yes they are tight, but I've never messed up a tape job either. It helps to set your tires, (not the rims) out in the sun to heat them up. They will expand and be more plyable. The pics below are the most recent. I use stans 12mm yellow tape so it only covers the spoke holes in the channel. It won't get in the way of the bead that way. Those are my most recent set below with 2.5 Intense Edge tires.
  • 09-12-2014
    702Biff
    Admittedly I'm a rookie and could apply more patience. If you did it then it can be done....with a boatload of patience, because they are extremely tight.
  • 09-12-2014
    Shredman69
    1 Attachment(s)
    My other wheelset with Kendas mounted. They currently have a 2.5 Maxxis Minion's DHF on them.
  • 09-12-2014
    702Biff
    Did you order the graphics or do that afterwards? ...and what tire levers do you use? :madman:
  • 09-12-2014
    chrisingrassia
    Am I seeing LB rims that have ENVE stickers put on them?
  • 09-12-2014
    chrisingrassia
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by 702Biff View Post
    So then from your experience would you prefer to tape or order non drilled?

    Tape. I built and laced the wheels, took to a shop to true. Both ways, it's a ridiculous amount of work. I spent many hours threading nipples around the wheels with floss. HOURS.
  • 09-12-2014
    Shredman69
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by chrisingrassia View Post
    Am I seeing LB rims that have ENVE stickers put on them?

    LOL, custom graphics. They are my LB "CHENVY'S". I actually think they are better than ENVY's. They are lighter, wider and you can change a spoke or true a wheel on the trail, (ENVY nipples are not exposed so you have to take the tire off to make any spoke adjustments) and they are boatloads cheaper. I just like the ENVY graphics though.
  • 09-12-2014
    Shredman69
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by 702Biff View Post
    Did you order the graphics or do that afterwards? ...and what tire levers do you use? :madman:

    I have a few Oakley plastic levers. The custom graphics went on after the wheels were built, but before the tires went on.
  • 09-13-2014
    laksboy
    Just recently took delivery of a set of LB 26" 33mm wide hookless rims. So far I am questioning my purchase:

    2 rides, 2 JRA "fatal" rear pinch flats. The first on a WTB wierwolf which sealed up with stans at a low psi and I was able to limp gingerly home. Today a Conti Mtn King, an hour and a half from home 100 yds into the descent and had to walk (turns out std tube valve stems are not long enough to work with the deep dish LB rims). But seriously, while I was going downhill I didn't hit anything hard. And I was running at 30psi.

    I'm hoping the collective wisdom of MTBR can help me out, since I used you all to feel confident in the purchase...

    Here are my other observations:
    The WTB tires were almost impossible to mount. And while they sealed right up with a pump, they were very difficult to get the bead to slide up onto the rim shoulder and seat against the rim wall. Requiring several inflate/deflate cycles, lotsa soap and lots of working on it. This is with 1 wrap of gorilla tape.

    The conti full seated at 65 psi, but required a compressor to do so.

    You need to buy the longer "road" tubeless valve stems and then make sure your "backup" tubes are long valved as well.
  • 09-13-2014
    Lelandjt
    On my 33mm DH rims I'm using standard 35mm NoTubes valves with no problems getting a pump or air chuck on for the last year and a half but perhaps I've just gotten lucky and haven't encountered a pump that wants to slide farther on.
    Pinch flats are a function of the tire, pressure, and impact. Radical changes in rim width could have an effect but a 26mm rim is pretty standard. Use a burlier casing, more pressure, or hit stuff less hard. Gorilla tape is pretty thick (and heavy). Rewrap those rims with 25mm NoTubes tape to save weight and make tire changes easier.
  • 09-13-2014
    Shredman69
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by laksboy View Post
    Just recently took delivery of a set of LB 26" 33mm wide hookless rims. So far I am questioning my purchase:

    2 rides, 2 JRA "fatal" rear pinch flats. The first on a WTB wierwolf which sealed up with stans at a low psi and I was able to limp gingerly home. Today a Conti Mtn King, an hour and a half from home 100 yds into the descent and had to walk (turns out std tube valve stems are not long enough to work with the deep dish LB rims). But seriously, while I was going downhill I didn't hit anything hard. And I was running at 30psi.

    I'm hoping the collective wisdom of MTBR can help me out, since I used you all to feel confident in the purchase...

    Here are my other observations:
    The WTB tires were almost impossible to mount. And while they sealed right up with a pump, they were very difficult to get the bead to slide up onto the rim shoulder and seat against the rim wall. Requiring several inflate/deflate cycles, lotsa soap and lots of working on it. This is with 1 wrap of gorilla tape.

    The conti full seated at 65 psi, but required a compressor to do so.

    You need to buy the longer "road" tubeless valve stems and then make sure your "backup" tubes are long valved as well.


    Im a little confused, are you running tubeless or with tubes? You said you got a pinch flat but you are using stans? If you are running tubes, get rid of them and you can't get pinch flats. If you are talking about cuts in your tire, you must be riding in some sharp rock gardens. If that's the case, that's not the rims fault, it's the tire. 30lbs is kind of high for a tubeless setup. A little less pressure might help the tire conform around a sharp rock unstead of puncturing a tire carcass that has higher pressure. Also Lelandjt is right. Use Stans tape, it's much thinner and lighter than gorilla tape and it makes the tire easier to install. But I use the narrower 12mm tape that only covers the spoke channel, it makes tire installs even easier since the tape doesn't ride up the sides above the channel. I've had a few tires get punctures in sharp rock gardens at places like "follow me" and "Bullet" at Mammoth bike park, but that's just part of the game, it happens. I did get the tires to eventually seal, but it took some time. I also carry a 2oz bottle of Stan's with me and a valve core removal tool in case I need to add some in on the trail in cases like yours.
  • 09-13-2014
    laksboy
    tubeless with stans. And you absolutely can get snakebite with tubeless tires. There's a chip (now 2 chips actually) in the rim and a small hole right at the rim and 1 in the tread. Identical on both new tires. Stans was spitting out both holes. When I tried adding more air, it just caused more stans to spray out. Do I need to be more patient with the Stans? Let it dry before trying to pump in more air? I had the wheel at the low point...

    Rocks are sharp, but like I said earlier, I didn't hit anything hard. I gave up on tubeless 10 years ago for similar reasons after getting "snakebite" style unfixable holes in $65 tires. I've been running tubes in old UST rims since then until I got the LB's 2 weeks ago. When running tubes, I KNOW when I pinch flat, because I just hit something hard and "felt" it. In both of these cases, I didn't hit anything hard, but like I said, definitely snakebite.

    Basically, I'm really frustrated. And I appreciate any input/advice. All I can think of at the moment is to get a heavier tire and try 35 psi...



    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Shredman69 View Post
    Im a little confused, are you running tubeless or with tubes? You said you got a pinch flat but you are using stans? If you are running tubes, get rid of them and you can't get pinch flats. If you are talking about cuts in your tire, you must be riding in some sharp rock gardens. If that's the case, that's not the rims fault, it's the tire. 30lbs is kind of high for a tubeless setup. A little less pressure might help the tire conform around a sharp rock unstead of puncturing a tire carcass that has higher pressure. Also Lelandjt is right. Use Stans tape, it's much thinner and lighter than gorilla tape and it makes the tire easier to install. But I use the narrower 12mm tape that only covers the spoke channel, it makes tire installs even easier since the tape doesn't ride up the sides above the channel. I've had a few tires get punctures in sharp rock gardens at places like "follow me" and "Bullet" at Mammoth bike park, but that's just part of the game, it happens. I did get the tires to eventually seal, but it took some time. I also carry a 2oz bottle of Stan's with me and a valve core removal tool in case I need to add some in on the trail in cases like yours.

  • 09-13-2014
    Lelandjt
    I repair punctured tires by cleaning, applying a standard style tube patch, putting a tube in for half an hour to press the patch on, then putting the valve and sealant back in. A puncture right in the middle of the tire means you need a burlier casing for your rocks and speeds. I did that at the Keystone enduro. A puncture from a snakebite situation (lower sidewall or along the outer row of knobs means you need either a burlier casing or more pressure and you should count yourself lucky that the impact, while enough to cut the tire, wasn't quite enough to crack the rim. I cracked a rim at the Crested Butte enduro trying to run a little less pressure than normal.
  • 09-13-2014
    hoolie
    I am no carbon fan, but it seems like you need to read Derby website. A lot of good info. I don't even own carbon rims and I know a) you need long valve stems so you don't hose yourself. Long rim valves and spare tube. B) small rim gouges and cracks don't seem to ruin the integrity of cheaper carbon rims. C) if you use lighter tires, they get cut in rocks, Conti does not have the best reputation on MTBR as a LONG LASTING tire. If I were riding a lot of rocks (I do), I would use a tire with proper sidewalls (I do, and unfortunately for me they weigh more). If you read DERBY info, you will be bummed you waited until all of these problems. My opinion, is that you will enjoy tubeless better, once you are dialed. I too was a late adopter, and I am very happy. Oh, those tips about Stan's tape above make sense too. I used Stan's tape from the get go, so I wouldn't know about Gorilla tape (seems silly to use Gorilla tape, when I can buy purpose made rim tape).
  • 09-13-2014
    laksboy
    good advice on the puncture repair. thanks. I have both tires inflated with tubes and 2 patches each at 50 psi. Since i have 2 small dings in the rim, I have to assume that I am lucky I didn't do more damage. Looks like I am headed for 35 psi on trails with rocks...

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Lelandjt View Post
    I repair punctured tires by cleaning, applying a standard style tube patch, putting a tube in for half an hour to press the patch on, then putting the valve and sealant back in. A puncture right in the middle of the tire means you need a burlier casing for your rocks and speeds. I did that at the Keystone enduro. A puncture from a snakebite situation (lower sidewall or along the outer row of knobs means you need either a burlier casing or more pressure and you should count yourself lucky that the impact, while enough to cut the tire, wasn't quite enough to crack the rim. I cracked a rim at the Crested Butte enduro trying to run a little less pressure than normal.