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  1. #801
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    Here are a picture of my wider (stronger) DU with king hubs CX-Ray spokes 260mm all the way around, DT Swiss gold alloy nipples. They came in at 1627gram 7 grams over the DT Swiss calculator! Pretty good! 26in chinese carbon all mountain rim-imageuploadedbytapatalk1354482881.588704.jpg
    Last edited by Darkstar187; 12-03-2012 at 12:01 AM.

  2. #802
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    Quote Originally Posted by saruti View Post
    nybike1971
    maybe its time to use more PSI on the rear tire....
    I guess you would break any carbon rim with 28 PSI on the rear.
    Morgan said it very well. I know it is not true that any carbon rim would crack under my body at 28psi. A friend of mine has been riding a set of Reynolds rims for over a season on a hardtail in rocky terrain and they have held up great.

    The whole point of running tubeless is to improve the ride quality. If I can't run 28psi in a 850g 2.4 tire, the rim is useless for me. I am not talking about paper thin 450g tires here.

    Just like Morgan, I treated this as an experiment. I was hoping it would work out but for me it didn't and it's time to move on. Maybe I'll splurge on a set of Enve because I really liked to stiffness and feel of carbon.

    saruti, just out of curiosity, do you have any affiliation with light-bicycle?

  3. #803
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    You are absolutely correct. I run 23 PSI in my rear tire on my Eastons and have for over a year without issues. This is doing 5-10 drops and riding a lot of fast rocky chunk.

  4. #804
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    I dont have any relationship with light-bicycle.com. I'm a costumer like all of us.
    I just think that with carbon rims, we shuld use more tire pressure.
    for me it's easy, becouse I like my tires pressure high. even when I used aluminium rims.
    I dont like the feel of the tires foldes when I take a turn....
    and I like the feel of my bike suspension working under me, and not the tires.
    I hope you understand what I mean :-)

  5. #805
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    I'm 200lbs, and sure I can put my tires at 25f/28r PSI and make my rims survive, riding at a moderate pace. If I ride with any less than 32f/35r my 800g tires(any kind) squirm and are unpredictable, at the pace I want to ride. At higher pressures like this, I also have a tendency to make rims last pretty long. I can remember very well the last time I dented a rim. My Light Bicycle rims have been doing GREAT, even blasting hard.

    If you regularly put dents in your aluminum rims, in my opinion, carbon rims are going to be a risky deal for you, unless you increase your pressures a bit.

    I guess for the record, here is my riding level. This is my other bike, but I don't ride my bike with the LB carbon wheels any less aggressive. Fast forward about 2min in for better terrain.

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ddeURBD-cxM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    Last edited by thuren; 12-03-2012 at 07:03 AM.
    Bend, Oregon

  6. #806
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    thure
    you know how to write and explain, better than me :-)

  7. #807
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    That was fun to watch except for the metal on metal part, awesome riding. I ride pretty similar trails I'm 140lbs hopefully these carbon wheels will hold up.

  8. #808
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    Looks like a pretty good fun factor for such a well-groomed trail. I don't think rocks will be an issue for you... looks like a fun ride, though. Troll alert: your buddy has a nasty skidding habit that would be remedied with a little compress-and-lean into those wide, nicely-bermed corners y'all have.
    Go out and ride your bike


  9. #809
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    Thanks guys. Lets me just say again, that I have been charging with these rims even on rocky terrain(even though there is little rock in that above vid), and as long as my pressures are high, I have NO worries. I smashed into a couple rock sections yesterday on the trail, which reminds me I should give the rims a go go-over today, as I know my front pressure was down in the 29psi range. I think the buttery 160mm fork did it's job though.
    Bend, Oregon

  10. #810
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    Quote Originally Posted by eurotrash666 View Post
    Troll alert: your buddy has a nasty skidding habit that would be remedied with a little compress-and-lean into those wide, nicely-bermed corners y'all have.
    HAHA! I'll just say, once you get to a certain speed, if you DON'T skid, you are not making the turn. Race-pace mandates skidding sometimes.
    Bend, Oregon

  11. #811
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    Quote Originally Posted by thuren View Post
    HAHA! I'll just say, once you get to a certain speed, if you DON'T skid, you are not making the turn. Race-pace mandates skidding sometimes.
    I was going to say if you haven't ridden BTI it's hard to tell how short those sections between switchbacks are. If you have enough speed to air the jumps you're going to skid a little.

  12. #812
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    Quote Originally Posted by thuren View Post
    HAHA! I'll just say, once you get to a certain speed, if you DON'T skid, you are not making the turn. Race-pace mandates skidding sometimes.
    Whenever I make a troll post, god kills a kitten. Lean, rail, rejoice. With finesse comes speed and control!

    Chiming in on pressure, if only to boost the number of voices- I am heavy, and I ride aggressively. I could go on about breaking bones and parts and all that, since I shred, blah blah, but one thing that matters for sure is tire pressure. Up front (for me) maybe it can dip to a pound or two, but 30 psi is the absolute minimum in back. Varies with carcass size and terrain and all the other variables, but c'mon, you can't expect to not beat a rim with 24 psi no matter what you weigh.

    If you know what pressure you will pinch flat at, and you should, that would be the same condition that your rim no longer has a cushion between it and the rock you landed on. Eliminating tubes eliminates pinch flats (well, the tube kind) but it does not change how your rim gets hammered. The line between compliant traction and slog & squirm is so narrow, why try to balance it? Add 5 psi and be done with it. My street/dj bike that these carbon rims are for always has 35 psi in the tires (with tubes), and I expect them to last.
    Go out and ride your bike


  13. #813
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    Quote Originally Posted by eurotrash666 View Post
    Whenever I make a troll post, god kills a kitten. Lean, rail, rejoice. With finesse comes speed and control!

    Chiming in on pressure, if only to boost the number of voices- I am heavy, and I ride aggressively. I could go on about breaking bones and parts and all that, since I shred, blah blah, but one thing that matters for sure is tire pressure. Up front (for me) maybe it can dip to a pound or two, but 30 psi is the absolute minimum in back. Varies with carcass size and terrain and all the other variables, but c'mon, you can't expect to not beat a rim with 24 psi no matter what you weigh.

    If you know what pressure you will pinch flat at, and you should, that would be the same condition that your rim no longer has a cushion between it and the rock you landed on. Eliminating tubes eliminates pinch flats (well, the tube kind) but it does not change how your rim gets hammered. The line between compliant traction and slog & squirm is so narrow, why try to balance it? Add 5 psi and be done with it. My street/dj bike that these carbon rims are for always has 35 psi in the tires (with tubes), and I expect them to last.
    I agree 100%!
    Bend, Oregon

  14. #814
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    I am about to have a set of these laced up to some Hope Pro 2 Evo's for my Stumpy FSR evo (can never have to many products named evo)

    Can anyone confirm the spoke length needed? I'm having trouble finding the right specs to punch into DT's calculator for hub info, and I've searched this thread but found some varying results. 260? 262? 263? - confused, and just want to have my LBS order the right thing. Thanks!

  15. #815
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    You better measure it yourself, this way you'll have exactly the right stuff.

  16. #816
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    Don't forget to consider the effect from the length of your neeples!
    Go out and ride your bike


  17. #817
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    I got my spoke lengths wrong, and had them too long by 2mm.
    But it was a relatively easy fix.

    Just got a 14g spoke roller, as it was cheaper than buying a new full set of spokes.

    Scar
    P.S. Mine are still riding perfectly!
    1500g all in with American classic hubs, running tubeless.

  18. #818
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad andy View Post
    I am about to have a set of these laced up to some Hope Pro 2 Evo's for my Stumpy FSR evo (can never have to many products named evo)

    Can anyone confirm the spoke length needed? I'm having trouble finding the right specs to punch into DT's calculator for hub info, and I've searched this thread but found some varying results. 260? 262? 263? - confused, and just want to have my LBS order the right thing. Thanks!

    I am coming up with 258 and 259. Let me know what you end up finding out. My ERD was correct from their web page so you results may vary depending on if you ERD is the same as mine

  19. #819
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    With my Chris king hubs I used 260 front and rear. The ERD was dead on. I used the dt calculator to find the correct spokes.

  20. #820
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    Just ordered a set of light-bike's AM hoops for my bike... My plan is to relace my current Mavic Crossmax st's with these hoops. Anyone see any issues with this logic??

  21. #821
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scotty Slc View Post
    Just ordered a set of light-bike's AM hoops for my bike... My plan is to relace my current Mavic Crossmax st's with these hoops. Anyone see any issues with this logic??
    Using the Crossmax ST hub? What will you use for spokes? The ball-end zircal spokes with the double-threaded UST nips will only retrofit with the XM819 rim, as far as I know. What's your plan?
    Go out and ride your bike


  22. #822
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    Quote Originally Posted by eurotrash666 View Post
    Using the Crossmax ST hub? What will you use for spokes? The ball-end zircal spokes with the double-threaded UST nips will only retrofit with the XM819 rim, as far as I know. What's your plan?
    I was planning on running the ST hub... I was planning on trying to make it work at first... I wanted to see if anyone is running a similar setup, so I can steal some idea's...

  23. #823
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrgto View Post
    I am coming up with 258 and 259. Let me know what you end up finding out. My ERD was correct from their web page so you results may vary depending on if you ERD is the same as mine
    I did manage to find the Hope hub dimensions and also came up with 258/259 for the rear. 258/260 for the front. pic attached:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 26in chinese carbon all mountain rim-screen-shot-2012-12-21-1.21.51-pm.png  


  24. #824
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad andy View Post
    I did manage to find the Hope hub dimensions and also came up with 258/259 for the rear. 258/260 for the front. pic attached:
    I went with 258/260 front and rear, and it worked great. Next round, I will be using 260's for all, as if anything they were about 1-2mm too short.
    Bend, Oregon

  25. #825
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    Quote Originally Posted by thuren View Post
    I went with 258/260 front and rear, and it worked great. Next round, I will be using 260's for all, as if anything they were about 1-2mm too short.
    Yep, I used 260 both sides on my front Hope Evo. I could see the spoke end just short of flush with the top of the nipple, disc side.


  26. #826
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    Hey Geo,
    What did you use rim strip or just tape?

  27. #827
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkstar187 View Post
    Hey Geo,
    What did you use rim strip or just tape?
    Just Gorilla tape , I'm running with tubes at present, I may get back into tubeless after our holiday break.

  28. #828
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    Ok cool, that's what I'm running tubeless it was kind of pain to mount my Hans dampf I lots of soapy water and a compressor to get them mounted up.

  29. #829
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    Wow - OK, so I've spent the better part of this entire week reading these 34 pages for these carbon rims (on a personal note, reading through threads would be 100x easier if people got rid of their stupid massive signatures). I even emailed Nancy myself inquiring about certain items. It seems like some customers are more than happy with the wheels, while others have had theirs break, and others have been completely cold-shouldered by customer service warranty/return issues. What's the feeling on these wheels? They seem a bit hit-and-miss, and I read numerous posts where people have ordered theirs custom done with special weighting and thickness and "burlier" buildup. The spec sheet Nancy sent me is a 30mm wide rim with a 25.8mm inner channel, 22mm height, and tubeless tire compatible.

    Is this the latest onthese wheels? For those who have been running these since May or June, how have they been holding up?

  30. #830
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    Wheels are awesome!

    I see it as very simple... Carbon does not bend, it breaks. Think of it like fiberglass.

    If you regularly dent your aluminum rims, you should stick with aluminum, or increase your tire pressures and go with carbon.
    Bend, Oregon

  31. #831
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisingrassia View Post
    Wow - OK, so I've spent the better part of this entire week reading these 34 pages for these carbon rims (on a personal note, reading through threads would be 100x easier if people got rid of their stupid massive signatures). I even emailed Nancy myself inquiring about certain items. It seems like some customers are more than happy with the wheels, while others have had theirs break, and others have been completely cold-shouldered by customer service warranty/return issues. What's the feeling on these wheels? They seem a bit hit-and-miss, and I read numerous posts where people have ordered theirs custom done with special weighting and thickness and "burlier" buildup. The spec sheet Nancy sent me is a 30mm wide rim with a 25.8mm inner channel, 22mm height, and tubeless tire compatible.

    Is this the latest onthese wheels? For those who have been running these since May or June, how have they been holding up?
    Been rolling on them since May. They've been in plenty of rocky areas and are holding up well. I mounted them tubeless with the Bontrager rim strip. Can't complain. My buddy blew one up by overinflating it way above the recommended max. I am very satisfied with my purchase.
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

  32. #832
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    Quote Originally Posted by thuren View Post
    Wheels are awesome!

    I see it as very simple... Carbon does not bend, it breaks. Think of it like fiberglass.

    If you regularly dent your aluminum rims, you should stick with aluminum, or increase your tire pressures and go with carbon.
    I'm running Easton Havocs with their hubs/spokes and Schwalbe 2.4 UST Fat Alberts. If I went with carbon rims and CK hubs, it seems like the wight savings for me would be negligible, maybe a hundred grams. I guess I could always swap out hubs later on though for further reductions. I think I'm gonna put in an order for the UD weave since it's the strongest. Good discussion guys - I really like the option of buying straight from the mftr.

    p.s. very jealous you're in Bend . My aunt/uncle moved there 4 years ago, and I have been desperately trying to find work there so I can move. Love that Deschutes River trail.

  33. #833
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    I have cracked two of these rims (rear wheel) on small hits through rock gardens while the front wheel has been going strong. You can see the pictures of the cracked rims and more details of my experience further up in this thread.

    My wheels have been ridden all over the Northeastern US, two weeks in Oregon, one week in Utah, and week in Phoenix and Sedona in the past six months.

    Oregon did not pose any issues on these rims as most of the riding there is quite smooth and primarily on dirt. It took one day of riding in Moab, preriding the Whole Enchilada enduro race course, to crack the first stock rim. One month later I cracked a reinforced rim riding an XC rocky trail in NY state.

    I gave up on these carbon rim in the rear and went back to Flow rims. In Sedona a few weeks ago, I was following a fast buddy on a fast descent through slickrock shelves and a steep roller became unexpectedly a 4ft drop to flat into kind of a hole for the rear wheel. I cringed but fortunately the Flow rim which just shrugged it off. Not even a small dent. And I was running 28psi on a Schwalbe HD tire setup tubeless. I weigh 165lbs, for the record.

    For my terrain and riding style, these rims are just too fragile. The stiffness was very nice but the hassle of rebuilding a wheel every couple of months is not worth it to me.

  34. #834
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    what is the difference in the weave patterns 12k, 3k, UD? any changes in strength? price on these is fantastic!

  35. #835
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOCRIGID View Post
    what is the difference in the weave patterns 12k, 3k, UD? any changes in strength? price on these is fantastic!
    Definitely a change in strength. Click on the question mark on Light Bicycle's website next to the weave pattern. It explains it.

  36. #836
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  37. #837
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    thanks!

  38. #838
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    Shouldn't be any difference in strength as they should all be UD but with a differing cosmetic cover ply of your choice, UD, 3k or 12K.

  39. #839
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    Quote Originally Posted by gvs_nz View Post
    Shouldn't be any difference in strength as they should all be UD but with a differing cosmetic cover ply of your choice, UD, 3k or 12K.
    Technically I guess this is correct. The wheel in its production phase is a UD construction. Question though: if I choose the UD matte/glossy, does the wheel come with a UD cover ply like you suggest, or does it come "raw" with just the UD build and no cover ply of an extra UD layer? In essence, if you get the 3k or 12k matte cover, you have a little bit of extra strength added to the wheel exterior, no?

  40. #840
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisingrassia View Post
    Definitely a change in strength. Click on the question mark on Light Bicycle's website next to the weave pattern. It explains it.
    Pretty sure the rims are mostly UD carbon, with the very most outer layer 3k or 12k if you specify. Honestly, I would want the external surfaces wrapped in 3k, and maybe a middle layer too from 3k, for delamination resistance. The 3k would cross the grain to prevent splitting. Kinda like splitting a piece of wood. If the grain changed direction, you would not get a long split. Hard to put what I mean in words.
    Bend, Oregon

  41. #841
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    Quote Originally Posted by thuren View Post
    Pretty sure the rims are mostly UD carbon, with the very most outer layer 3k or 12k if you specify. Honestly, I would want the external surfaces wrapped in 3k, and maybe a middle layer too from 3k, for delamination resistance. The 3k would cross the grain to prevent splitting. Kinda like splitting a piece of wood. If the grain changed direction, you would not get a long split. Hard to put what I mean in words.
    Did you have yours built this way? I have been in communication with Nancy for the past week, and just about to send an order. I did read somewhere that the 3k helps on the areas for the spoke/valve spots against possible delamination. Your suggestions make a lot of sense. I'll have to see if Nancy can accommodate something like this.

  42. #842
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisingrassia View Post
    Did you have yours built this way? I have been in communication with Nancy for the past week, and just about to send an order. I did read somewhere that the 3k helps on the areas for the spoke/valve spots against possible delamination. Your suggestions make a lot of sense. I'll have to see if Nancy can accommodate something like this.
    Here's the response I got from Nancy on this question:
    "We have one 3k layer inside the spoke holes, you can see it through the spoke holes.
    And if you order 3k rims, there will be another 3k layer on the top of rim. So, total is two layers of 3k carbon. Is it ok for you? If you like to order, we can make invoice for you.
    Thanks,
    Nancy"

    So it sounds like there actually is already two layers of 3k mixed in with the overall UD production.

  43. #843
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    Thanks for the info

    I have no input, just wanted to let all the posters know that I appreciate your discussion of these rims. Discussions were thorough and generally stayed on the topic (which, as you know, doesn't always happen). I am considering building an "AM" wheelset with carbon rims, but decided that the wider LB rims were not appropriate for what I want (riding over rocks and 3-foot drops). I will visit the thread occasionally to see what has developed.

    I'd rep all of you, but there are too many of you! So, virtual rep, and thanks again.

  44. #844
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    Quote Originally Posted by clydecrash View Post
    I have no input, just wanted to let all the posters know that I appreciate your discussion of these rims. Discussions were thorough and generally stayed on the topic (which, as you know, doesn't always happen). I am considering building an "AM" wheelset with carbon rims, but decided that the wider LB rims were not appropriate for what I want (riding over rocks and 3-foot drops). I will visit the thread occasionally to see what has developed.

    I'd rep all of you, but there are too many of you! So, virtual rep, and thanks again.
    I agree. The discussion here, with the exception of a jillion posts about shipment tracking, was very intuitive and informational. How come you say the wider 30mm rims aren't appropriate for an AM build? They have 24mm and 30mm sets. Is it just because of the fragility of carbon against rocks/drops? Those 30mm wheels should hold up crazy nice if you build them with good components.

  45. #845
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisingrassia View Post
    I agree. The discussion here, with the exception of a jillion posts about shipment tracking, was very intuitive and informational. How come you say the wider 30mm rims aren't appropriate for an AM build? They have 24mm and 30mm sets. Is it just because of the fragility of carbon against rocks/drops? Those 30mm wheels should hold up crazy nice if you build them with good components.
    Yeah, it is mostly about the rocks. A lot of my trails are mostly rocks, and this set will go on my Blur LTc that is built up heavy. While I try to float over the rocks as much as I can (the frame excels at that), I bash quite a bit too. And I am 260 lbs, which is close to their weight limit. But, like I said, I will visit this thread in the future, and I may change my mind. I am not in a hurry to build a new set, but can anytime (have King hubs ready, probably spokes too). One thing LB has going for it is that they can drill whatever holes I want, which in this case would be 36 for the rear and 32 for the front. So I will keep them in mind.

    I have a set of Reynolds AM Carbons on my more XC/Trail bike, and those have been impressive (very stiff). But I do not use that bike in the more rocky areas.

  46. #846
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    Are there any other asian carbon companies making 23mm+ rims (internal)?

    I'm close to pulling the trigger on these in matte UD, one regular strength, one extra stength with no internal spoke holes.
    Last edited by Lelandjt; 01-09-2013 at 03:31 AM.
    Keep the Country country.

  47. #847
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lelandjt View Post
    Are there any other asian carbon companies making 23mm+ rims (internal)?

    I'm close to pulling the trigger on these in matte UD, one regular strength, one extra stength with no internal spoke holes.
    I'd reckon there's hundreds. Whether you can get access to them, or they have websites or functioning CS dept's, I don't know. I'm hesitant to buy Chinese products at all, but the last 34 pgs of info and feedback have me considering these too. How do you install spokes if there's no spoke holes? I don't think LB has there magic carbon wheels avail yet =)

  48. #848
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    There's still external spoke holes but no internal ones on the rim bed. You thread a short bent piece of spoke into each nipple, drop them in the valve hole, use a magnet to move them to their spoke hole, and tweezers to pull them through. Tedious but with brass nipples it's a one time thing and it would be sweet to have no tape for tubeless.
    Keep the Country country.

  49. #849
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lelandjt View Post
    There's still external spoke holes but no internal ones on the rim bed. You thread a short bent piece of spoke into each nipple, drop them in the valve hole, use a magnet to move them to their spoke hole, and tweezers to pull them through. Tedious but with brass nipples it's a one time thing and it would be sweet to have no tape for tubeless.
    Not sure the distance between outer and inner part is deep enough to get the nipple turned and through the hole. The hole is quite deep as the carbon is thick in this area, also it's not extremely wide as I struggled to get some nipples through fully, needing some force. I would suggest getting them to check the measurement as feel you are heading for a headache and having to drill holes yourself!

  50. #850
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lelandjt View Post
    There's still external spoke holes but no internal ones on the rim bed. You thread a short bent piece of spoke into each nipple, drop them in the valve hole, use a magnet to move them to their spoke hole, and tweezers to pull them through. Tedious but with brass nipples it's a one time thing and it would be sweet to have no tape for tubeless.
    VERY interesting. I'm planning to run mine tubeless, and that's ingenious. Would practically be fail-safe and wouldn't have to mess with tape or rim strips. The magnet task would work through a carbon rim?

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