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  1. #701
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    Quote Originally Posted by highaltitude View Post
    For those that built their own - how much spoke tension are you using on these rims?
    Front: 120kgf disc side
    Rear: 160kgf drive side

    holding up just fine!

  2. #702
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    Quote Originally Posted by tahoeyeti View Post
    Rock hard is WAY too much pressure. I usually run about 23 psi front and 26 psi rear, and depending on your weight, riding style, and how chunky your trails are you could go as low as 18 psi.
    Some would call 35psi rock hard, and I would call 18psi damn near flat.

    I NEED to run 35psi on the rear, and 32psi in the front, unless running full on 1200g DH tires.

    There are no "rules" with tire pressure.
    Bend, Oregon

  3. #703
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    Quote Originally Posted by thuren View Post
    there are no rules for tire pressure
    precisely! In fact, for riding purposes I don't even bother with the guage, just give the tire a squeeze.

    By the way, tahoeyeti, we were talking about temporary pressures for seating a bead. I think we could all agree that 50-60 PSI would be ludicrous for any type of off-road riding.

  4. #704
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    Going to be riding mine for the first time on sunday, can't wait as I built them up a month back and haven't had the time since I managed to seat some tyres! Bought conti rubber queens 2.2 ust for them as they are a large tyre so thought the depth would help protect the rim. Once I got the tyres on and seated (very easy) its clear that they are no longer the over sized tyres they used to be! Still great tyres though. Will report back once rode them a few times.

  5. #705
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    I'd like to run a set of matte finish rims tubeless. Would thee be an advantage to asking for a gloss finish on the inner channel of the rims? Better sealing, or air tightness maybe?


    - Rob

  6. #706
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    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    I'd like to run a set of matte finish rims tubeless. Would thee be an advantage to asking for a gloss finish on the inner channel of the rims? Better sealing, or air tightness maybe?


    - Rob
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  7. #707
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    re: my wheelsets....

    Howdy,

    Thought i'd put some useful feedback up here for everyone.
    I've got 2 sets of 30mm AM Carbon rims, 1set 32h on American Classics (1505g), and 1set 24h on Sun Ringle's (1475g).

    I ordered them with 3k Matte finish, and Pillar 1420 spokes at the same time.
    ERD was 536mm on all 4 rims measured at multiple points.

    They built up really easily, but would probably recommend using internal nipple washers, as they don't angle the internal nipple hole. So the nipples want to point straight out and not at the actual spoke angle.
    Example washers here: "bdopcycling.com/Pillar-Nipples and Washers.asp"
    Built them up with linseed oil, and tensioned to 120/160Kgf (disc/drive rear, and non-disc/disc front).

    I've taken the american classic 32h set out in anger the other day, and gave them a good working over on a 10m loop, and some really rough DH runs.
    They've held their tension fine, although the nipples have now bedded into the rim at the correct spoke angle. Really really surprised how strong the pillar spokes have built up with the wheels!

    Tubeless.........
    Now this was a right PITA, but they do work and work well.
    The biggest issue for me was the tyre not sealing initially due to the deep internal channel. I ended up making a rim strip out of a 20in tube cutting it into the right width. Once the rim strip was in the tyre was able to seal just enough to seat up on the bead correctly. (although I really really had to work at it with my track pump!!)
    This would be way easier it you actually used a correct rim strip, like the bontrager strip.
    I just used a bontrager tubeless bolt in presta valve and my bodged bmx tube.
    This may be easier with the non matte finish rim, but mine are running fine.

    Tyres being used were: Schwable Fat Albert 2.4, and Nobby Nic 2.4 (tripple evo tubeless ready)

    Pics of mine here: "scar4me.pinkbike.com/album/CarbonAMRims/"


    Scar

  8. #708
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    Hi,
    I am going to buy this rims but I am afraid of putting the tires on that rims. Now I am using Mavic XC 717 disc with tubes and Rocket Ron EVO (not tubeless). I have no problem to put them on or off without any tool. Will I have such problem with the new Chinese rims? Or is the problem only with tubeless tires?

  9. #709
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    Quote Originally Posted by czarli View Post
    Hi,
    I am going to buy this rims but I am afraid of putting the tires on that rims. Now I am using Mavic XC 717 disc with tubes and Rocket Ron EVO (not tubeless). I have no problem to put them on or off without any tool. Will I have such problem with the new Chinese rims? Or is the problem only with tubeless tires?
    I struggled with Schwalbe Hans damph tyres, but had no problems mounting continental rubber queens which are ust tyres. Just keep pumping till they seat as the rims are definitely worth the effort.

  10. #710
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    Thanks for answer. What about situation when I get a puncture on the trail (I'm using tubes)? Will it be possible to remove the tire? How is it difficult?

  11. #711
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    Quote Originally Posted by czarli View Post
    Thanks for answer. What about situation when I get a puncture on the trail (I'm using tubes)? Will it be possible to remove the tire? How is it difficult?
    Treat it like any other tire and any other rim... Some combo's are easy to work with, some are hard. Bring the right tools.
    "I wrote a hit play! What have you ever done?!"

    Have Ashtray, Will Travel....

  12. #712
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    Light Bicycle carbon Rims

    I recently built up a pair of the 26" AM carbon rims with CK hubs and DT aerolite spokes. Easy build-more so than flow rims. They are very stiff and true having ridden them a few times. The rims appear to be very high quality. The rim also has a pronouced bead-not sure if this is a knockoff off stans or specialized but it looks like it will really hold a tire in a tubless setup. I used the bontranger rim strips instead of usual stand tape or gorilla tape and installed maxxis Ikon and Ardent tires (non tubeless ready but work great with stans rims). They inflated easily with no stans or soap using a compressor and held air without stans sealant. I was impressed. I have been running with stans sealant with zero problems. There was very little seepage upon first inflation-again very impressive tubelss compatability.

  13. #713
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    What lenght nipple did anyone use 12mm or 14mm?

    Also, I'm thinking of building with DT 240s 6 bolts DISC hub. What's the lenght for 3 cross as the calculator came up 259.2 left and 259.1 right and Sapim spoke range are 259mm and next size up is 261mm and also DT Swiss Revo range 259mm next size 260mm? I'm guessing order 259mm, can anyone advise?

  14. #714
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    I used 12mm dt nipples.

  15. #715
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    Quote Originally Posted by wannabeRacer View Post
    What lenght nipple did anyone use 12mm or 14mm?

    Also, I'm thinking of building with DT 240s 6 bolts DISC hub. What's the lenght for 3 cross as the calculator came up 259.2 left and 259.1 right and Sapim spoke range are 259mm and next size up is 261mm and also DT Swiss Revo range 259mm next size 260mm? I'm guessing order 259mm, can anyone advise?
    I couldn't tell if you had a preference for one spoke over the other, but 259mm AND 260mm w/12mm nipples would be fine. If you want the 259, and want extra peace of mind you could go with a 14mm nipple though its not necessary.

  16. #716
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    Tag for interest

  17. #717
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    Set available for sale....

    Just thought i'd post up here as if someone in the UK wants a set of these the set I made up for a mate is up for sale:
    scar4me.pinkbike.com

    Would love to keep them along with my other set, but don't earn enough to get away with another bribe to the missus!

    Scar

  18. #718
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    Quote Originally Posted by scar4me View Post
    Just thought i'd post up here as if someone in the UK wants a set of these the set I made up for a mate is up for sale:
    scar4me.pinkbike.com

    Would love to keep them along with my other set, but don't earn enough to get away with another bribe to the missus!

    Scar
    I am interessted. I will contact you via PM.

  19. #719
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    Has anybody ordered these without holes in the inner channel? I'm thinking of placing nips with a magnet and a ferrous stub to drag them into place through the valve hole. For you guys who have built them, is there enough room in the cavity to accomplish this?
    Go out and ride your bike


  20. #720
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    undrilled inner...

    I wouldn't advise it.
    I looked carefully at some of the spoke drillings, and some of them didn't have the cleanest finish on the inside edges, so might scupper you.

    Easiest way to get them in would be fishing wire in through the nipple hole, out through the valve hole, put the nipple on, tia knot then pull it through.
    But again is risky, especially if there are any remnants of the internal bladder left over stuck in the inside of the rim.

    Scar

  21. #721
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    Quote Originally Posted by eurotrash666 View Post
    Has anybody ordered these without holes in the inner channel? I'm thinking of placing nips with a magnet and a ferrous stub to drag them into place through the valve hole. For you guys who have built them, is there enough room in the cavity to accomplish this?
    The normal way rims are drilled at manufacture is from the outside in. Do you know that their jig drills from the inside out? If not, they won't be able to do what you want.

  22. #722
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigWorld View Post
    The normal way rims are drilled at manufacture is from the outside in. Do you know that their jig drills from the inside out? If not, they won't be able to do what you want.
    Earlier in the thread someone quoted "Nancy" as having that as an option. It doesn't sound too far fetched to me, considering the Chinese have been known to paint a poem on a grain of rice using a single human hair...
    Go out and ride your bike


  23. #723
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    I built up the first of 4 wheels I will be building up with these rims. LB wide rim, Hadley 110x20 front hub, DT Swiss revolution spokes and alloy nipples. Wheel weighs 710 grams, once I added a stip of gorilla tape and a Stans valve the weight was 740.

    I put on a used but lots of tread left Continental Trail King UST and it sealed up immediately without even using sealant. It probably helped that this tire has already been mounted on my old front wheel, I just used a little soapy water on the rim and bead.

    Next will be building the rear wheel, also using a Hadley hub and DT spokes. Should get a ride on the front today, looking forward to it.

  24. #724
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    Has anyone switched from Stans Flows to this rim and noticed a change in stiffness?

    I have Hope Pro II's with DT Revolution spokes on Stan's Flows and noticed a lot of flex, so I have retired them to my commuter. I'm wondering that if I change out the flows for these carbon rims I will notice an improvement in stiffness? or do I need to go to a thicker spoke?

  25. #725
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    If your flows were flexy with revo, I guess they aren't tensioned enough. My Flows on CX ray are very stiff. Thicker spokes do not necessarily mean stiffer. On the contrary. I have problems building stiff wheels with thick spokes

  26. #726
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    Quote Originally Posted by hssp View Post
    If your flows were flexy with revo, I guess they aren't tensioned enough. My Flows on CX ray are very stiff. Thicker spokes do not necessarily mean stiffer. On the contrary. I have problems building stiff wheels with thick spokes
    From what I have read, CX Rays would build to a stiffer wheel than Revo's.

    My understanding was that a thicker spoke would stretch less under load (at the same initial tension), leading to a stiffer wheel.
    Last edited by Van Cuz; 11-03-2012 at 02:53 AM.

  27. #727
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    CX-Rays and Revos have about the same cross sectional area. They are equivalent in elasticity. A thicker spoke would be less elastic (ie. stretch less under the same load) but the CX-Ray is wide and flat while the revos are round, but the amount of metal in cross section is the similar.

  28. #728
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    The carbon rims allow a much higher tension overall in the wheel as the rim itself give structural support.
    Alloy rims do have a fair amount of give compared to the carbon ones, so if you tried to build them with the same high tension, the natural flex of the alloy rim would lead to snapping spokes as the flex is in concentrated areas.
    The carbon rims spread the load much better across more spokes, leading to less high stress peaks on single spokes when really putting the rim in high lateral and vertical loads.

    Bladed spokes do support stronger wheel builds. As the spokes are not just stressing directly in-line with the spoke, they have side loading aswell. Bladed spokes are much less prone to failure under repeated side loading when under high tension.
    Cross sectional area is not the only factor in actual durability, as both Revo's and CX's could be tensioned up to the same high tension, but the Revo's would fail way before the CX's did under actual riding conditions.


    Scar

  29. #729
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    Quote Originally Posted by scar4me View Post
    ...Bladed spokes do support stronger wheel builds. As the spokes are not just stressing directly in-line with the spoke, they have side loading aswell. Bladed spokes are much less prone to failure under repeated side loading when under high tension.
    Cross sectional area is not the only factor in actual durability, as both Revo's and CX's could be tensioned up to the same high tension, but the Revo's would fail way before the CX's did under actual riding conditions...
    Got any empirical data to back this up? A spoke is under tension, its cross-sectional shape is irrelevant. CX-rays claim to have a higher fatigue life than the equivalent non-bladed spoke. They do not claim to be stronger.

  30. #730
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    Now that the season is winding down does anyone have any video of themselves riding these rims in technical stuff or hitting jumps/drops with them? Or even just comments on how well they performed for you this season, along with what bike they are on and style riding you prefer? I would love to hear from those Mojo HD riders!

  31. #731
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttengineer View Post
    Now that the season is winding down does anyone have any video of themselves riding these rims in technical stuff or hitting jumps/drops with them? Or even just comments on how well they performed for you this season, along with what bike they are on and style riding you prefer? I would love to hear from those Mojo HD riders!
    Well I don't have a seasons use out of mine but I built up a front wheel last week and my rear wheel yesterday. Rims came in at 360 grams each, Hadley hubs, DT revolution spokes and alloy nipples. Wheelset weighed in at 1550 grams without rim strip or valve. I used one wrap of gorilla tape with a Stans valve and my Conti Trail Kings seated easily.

    I've had a few rides on the front wheel, first ride on the rear wheel today. No complaints, the front seems like its stiffer than my DT 5.1/Hadley wheel I was using previously.

    These are on a Mojo HD and I feel like it was a good investment. Think I ended up spending around $850 for everything. The new wheels dropped around 3/4 lbs from my wheels which doesn't suck.

  32. #732
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    I've been beating the snot out of mine. No full DH rock garden charging, as Carbon and rocks still freak me out, but I have pushed them as hard as any rim on any trailbike. Jumps and berm bashing like crazy, and I come in at 200lbs. These things are STIFF!

    If I were running 1000g+ tires on a DH bike, and higher pressures, I would trust them.

    They would probably be on my long-travel Enduro, IF they had a true bead-lip like my XT wheels do. I do fear of burping these if I ride REAL hard, with no bead lock. I head the Bontrager strips have this lip though might try that.
    Bend, Oregon

  33. #733
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    Tech note from Brian:
    The recommended spoke tension is 80kgf to 130kgf

    3 of charging tension are involved in wheel building. Riding comfortability and performance are supposed to be considered while choosing charging tension.

    A. Tension for "transportation riders" (Comfortability) 80-90kgf are ideal for regular tansporation riders or exercise on a regular basis.

    B. Tension for "enthusiast riders" (Balance) 100-110kgf are good for people with enjoyful and training purpose.

    C. Tension for "professional riders" (Performance) 120-130kfg are charged for riders who are expertized in riding or competition.
    Last edited by eurotrash666; 11-09-2012 at 03:33 AM.
    Go out and ride your bike


  34. #734
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    Custom red paint for me!!
    Gonna replace some 620g Transitions with these... 400g reinforced version, UD under gloss red. These guys have been great to deal with. They say they have addressed the tight fitting/not fully seating tire problem... hope so.
    Go out and ride your bike


  35. #735
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    Quote Originally Posted by eurotrash666 View Post
    Custom red paint for me!!
    Gonna replace some 620g Transitions with these... 400g reinforced version, UD under gloss red. These guys have been great to deal with. They say they have addressed the tight fitting/not fully seating tire problem... hope so.
    Was the custom colour at any extra cost? Might get my next set in a union jack colour way!!

  36. #736
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    15 USD to paint and polish the pair. I bet they could do all kinds of paint, considering they do frames. Another Chinese company called Miracle did my frame with a design of my choice, but they charged per color, not on the complexity of the design. These guys are really striving for success.
    Go out and ride your bike


  37. #737
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    Quote Originally Posted by eurotrash666 View Post
    They say they have addressed the tight fitting/not fully seating tire problem... hope so.
    I've recently built up four wheels with these rims and all have seated Continental trail kings (both UST and regular) without issue.

  38. #738
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottW View Post
    I've recently built up four wheels with these rims and all have seated Continental trail kings (both UST and regular) without issue.
    What type of rim strip are you using? I'm planning on trying out gorilla tape with my mountain king II's.

  39. #739
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  40. #740
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    Quote Originally Posted by sraak View Post
    What type of rim strip are you using? I'm planning on trying out gorilla tape with my mountain king II's.
    From what I have seen on here, that combo seems to work VERY well. The bontrager rim strips seem to work well also.

  41. #741
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    Quote Originally Posted by sraak View Post
    What type of rim strip are you using? I'm planning on trying out gorilla tape with my mountain king II's.
    I just use one wrap of gorilla tape.

  42. #742
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    Quote Originally Posted by sraak View Post
    What type of rim strip are you using? I'm planning on trying out gorilla tape with my mountain king II's.

    Quote Originally Posted by scar4me View Post
    Howdy,
    Tubeless.........
    Now this was a right PITA, but they do work and work well.
    The biggest issue for me was the tyre not sealing initially due to the deep internal channel. I ended up making a rim strip out of a 20in tube cutting it into the right width. Once the rim strip was in the tyre was able to seal just enough to seat up on the bead correctly. (although I really really had to work at it with my track pump!!)
    This would be way easier it you actually used a correct rim strip, like the bontrager strip.
    I just used a bontrager tubeless bolt in presta valve and my bodged bmx tube.
    This may be easier with the non matte finish rim, but mine are running fine.

    Tyres being used were: Schwable Fat Albert 2.4, and Nobby Nic 2.4 (tripple evo tubeless ready)
    Did it the cheap way with £6 bolt in valves, and an old bmx tube.
    Couldn't be bothered to spend £25-30 for a propper strip.

    Scar

  43. #743
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    Quote Originally Posted by scar4me View Post
    Did it the cheap way with £6 bolt in valves, and an old bmx tube.
    Couldn't be bothered to spend £25-30 for a propper strip.

    Scar
    Bontrager rim strips are £3.50 each

    Gorilla tape is £4 a roll

  44. #744
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    I have the 29" version of these rims and initially built them with Revo's-2.0-1.5-2.0, and found them to be too 'flexy' in rough tech, pretty scary actually. I rebuilt them with 2.0-1.7-2.0 spokes, same tension, and they are much better holding a line in the rough tech. I feel more confident. I may even go to 2.0-1.8-2.0.

  45. #745
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockinrod35 View Post
    I have the 29" version of these rims and initially built them with Revo's-2.0-1.5-2.0, and found them to be too 'flexy' in rough tech, pretty scary actually. I rebuilt them with 2.0-1.7-2.0 spokes, same tension, and they are much better holding a line in the rough tech. I feel more confident. I may even go to 2.0-1.8-2.0.
    Too flexy compared to what? Isn't the primary benefit of carbon rims the stiffness? I run Stan's Arch EX and am considering these FOR the stiffness. Would I be disappointed in this swap?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

  46. #746
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    Quote Originally Posted by kroe View Post
    Too flexy compared to what? Isn't the primary benefit of carbon rims the stiffness? I run Stan's Arch EX and am considering these FOR the stiffness. Would I be disappointed in this swap?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    He was referring to the spokes, not the rim i believe.

  47. #747
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttengineer View Post
    He was referring to the spokes, not the rim i believe.
    Understood, but thought carbon rims were super stiff, and could get away with lighter or less spokes (seems to be how the commercial Carbon wheelsets are set up). I weigh around 210 and haven't seen a huge difference in stiffness from spokes (from tension yes, from spokes not so much, even my current Industry Nine aluminum spokes).

  48. #748
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    Quote Originally Posted by kroe View Post
    Too flexy compared to what? Isn't the primary benefit of carbon rims the stiffness? I run Stan's Arch EX and am considering these FOR the stiffness. Would I be disappointed in this swap?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    I went from Stans Arch rims and its like night and day, you won't be disappointed.

  49. #749
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    Quote Originally Posted by kroe View Post
    Understood, but thought carbon rims were super stiff, and could get away with lighter or less spokes (seems to be how the commercial Carbon wheelsets are set up).
    Depends how light you go on the spokes, Revolutions are very light, so much so DT only backs them up for XC use ~(They go 2.0-1.5-2.0).

    Comps/Supercomps have a much less drastic butting to them, so you can get away with fewer and higher tensions. But really you want 32 and live with the extra 100g, wheels with 28 or fewer spokes can be a complete pain to true.

  50. #750
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fix the Spade View Post
    Comps/Supercomps have a much less drastic butting to them, so you can get away with fewer and higher tensions. But really you want 32 and live with the extra 100g, wheels with 28 or fewer spokes can be a complete pain to true.
    This is great advice. In the planning stages it's easy to get obsessed. Doing a recent build i realized I was agonizing over every gram, in reality, when I'm actually RIDING my bike I care a whole lot more about functionality and durability.

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