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  1. #1
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    Grant proposal for trail building/maintenance in the Moose Mountain area

    Howdy folks! The Calgary Mountain Bike Alliance is submitting a grant application for the MMEE, and is looking for ideas and volunteers. To support the proposal, we need to have "evidence" that a trail needs work. Photos, GPS/map coordinates, detailed descriptions of problem areas - anything you have that could be used to support the argument that some work needs to be done in a specific area. I don't think the CMBA website has been updated with this info yet. If you do go to the site, please create an account - it will make you a member of the CMBA. It's free! And now a word from CMBA prez Rob Irwin:

    CMBA is preparing to submit an application for funding from the Moose Mountain Environmental Enhancement fund (MMEE) to address some problem trail sections and make moose mountain a better destination with more sustainable trails meeting IMBA standards. We are looking for firm commitments from our supporters. If you are interested in: 1) providing input into the design plan or 2) Know of a specific trail issue that needs to be addressed or 3) committing some volunteer labour to the execution of the final plan please contact Robert Irwin at president@cmbalink.com before March 1st, 2009. In an attempt to maximize CMBA's chances of receiving grant money from the MMEE we need to show that there is a large mountain bike population interested in bettering local trail systems. Go to 'Friends of CMBA' on Facebook or visit www.cmbalink.com to show your support.
    Please feel free to discuss potential projects here as well - if we put our heads together, I'm sure we can produce some quality ideas. Thanks!
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  2. #2
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    Sent my e-mail of to the pres, looking forward to helping out!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by curbhuck
    Sent my e-mail of to the pres, looking forward to helping out!
    Thanks! If you know of anyone else who would be interested, please pass the word along.
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  4. #4
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    How about involving some of the international riders on this board, people from all over the world rave about Cox Hill/Jumpingpound, their input would show that trail development is a viable form of tourism.

    Maybe some of the guiding companies that take groups on trails in K-country could chime in about how much people enjoy the experience, I believe Fernie fat tire adventures, or whatever they are called now, include Cox/JPR on their epic singletrack itinerary.

    I

  5. #5
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    ^^^^ Good point - I hadn't thought of that... I'll try some cross-posting...
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  6. #6
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    I'm down with helping out. I don't have any photos documenting the need for maintenance but I can work a shovel.

  7. #7
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    How specidfic to Moose are you talking? Tom Snow needs some major work around the junction with the gravel road as everyone knows. Not on Moose exactly but it is the runout for one of the best trails imo on moose (Packers of course).

    It would also be nice to see Pneuma turned legit since it is such a fantastic trail that has been needed for a long time to avoid potential high consequence accidents between bikes and vehicles on the road.

  8. #8
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    I'm pretty sure Tom Snow could be in play.
    All you need is love... but Scotch'll do in a pinch.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaryM
    How specidfic to Moose are you talking? Tom Snow needs some major work around the junction with the gravel road as everyone knows. Not on Moose exactly but it is the runout for one of the best trails imo on moose (Packers of course).

    It would also be nice to see Pneuma turned legit since it is such a fantastic trail that has been needed for a long time to avoid potential high consequence accidents between bikes and vehicles on the road.
    Tom Snow definitely has it coming. The area in question is from [I think] Station Flats to Dawson trailhead to Sibbald Flats to West Bragg.

    As for Pneuma, it's just as legit as the freeride trails [Race of Spades et al.]. The only problem I see is that it will be almost impossible to do the Moosepackers loop in ~2 hours if you include Pneuma. The road is just plain faster. Personally, I would like to see some stacked singletrack loops that parallel Sulphur Springs. That way, 'Packers wouldn't be the only game in town...
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  10. #10
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    Another alpine epic/connector/loop with cox would be nice, maybe an "all mountain" trail with big climbs and a few mild stunts/booters/berms built on it

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by curbhuck
    Another alpine epic/connector/loop with cox would be nice, maybe an "all mountain" trail with big climbs and a few mild stunts/booters/berms built on it
    Sounds cool! Are you thinking of having it start more at the Dawson or Sibbald end, and work its way back to West Bragg or something?
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkrobe
    Sounds cool! Are you thinking of having it start more at the Dawson or Sibbald end, and work its way back to West Bragg or something?
    Thats exactly what I was thinking, combine an alpine ride with a twisty/flowy lower angle single track back toward West Bragg, I need to check out some maps

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by curbhuck
    Thats exactly what I was thinking, combine an alpine ride with a twisty/flowy lower angle single track back toward West Bragg, I need to check out some maps
    Great idea! I'll bust out Google Earth and see what's what.
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  14. #14
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    I'd be down with snow shoeing into the trails to have a look. While there I'd like to spec out drop off jump potential...
    All you need is love... but Scotch'll do in a pinch.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by jitenshakun
    I'd be down with snow shoeing into the trails to have a look. While there I'd like to spec out drop off jump potential...
    You are so dead when your wife finds out about the ____.

    Do you honestly have any idea how much a decent-sized jump/ramp is going to weigh? Also, if it's light enough to pick up, somebody else will. I'll help scout a location, but I think you're nuts. Yes, I am a killjoy.
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  16. #16
    shh. don't tell the wife
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    I've been reading up on building and I'm thinking we plan out some stuff, split tools and commit some time. The wife is o.k. with me getting a chainsaw, as long as its a Husquevarna (she says the'yre the best).

    That way all we have to do is haul in the tools, a big ass bag of nails and get to work.
    All you need is love... but Scotch'll do in a pinch.

  17. #17
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    How big? I'm assuming nothing bigger than the hits on the tail end of RoS [after the steep push up the hill]. About 3' high, 3' wide to a natural transition?

    Looking at the mess o' trails in the Moose area, Special K is the easiest project trail to screw up -- I mean, work on. The first section is pretty close to being fall-line, so it might be a good idea to go cross-slope for some of the small jumps and make some switchbacks to lower the average grade. Cutting a totally new freeride trail is IMHO, a bad idea. There are already 7 good trails with a variety of terrain and built features in the area, and most need maintenance. Lots to practice on...
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  18. #18
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    Yup, I'm thinking some little fellas (3 footers) and I agree that patching some bad spots on existing trails would be the best way to go.
    All you need is love... but Scotch'll do in a pinch.

  19. #19
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    i will support any initiative regardless....but i really believe we DON'T need any more trails with jumps and stunts. the area needs more technical singletrack (like the east highline in canmore), and the road section on moose packers needs a singletrack ride-around. or possibly a fix-up / new singletrack up canyon creek, so one could loop to jp/cox.

    special K has potential to be a nice singletrack alternative to moose packers, keep it steep and rocky, any trail feature should be "natural" IMO. there are myriad excellent freeride trails in the area already.
    what would rainbow unicorn do?

  20. #20
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    I Think any trails that can be accessed from a shuttle on Moose will inevitably become DH/FR oriented and beat up. Building new XC/AM trails that you can only access by climbing up first would be ideal, I think the twisty/bermy singletrack bits on ROS would be a perfect model for some new trails, just leave the big stunts out.

  21. #21
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    I agree that there are enough big stunts, but some beginner ones on some AM trails would be nice.

    An XC uphill to ride ROS would be cool, but a bit beyond my fledgling trail building skills.
    All you need is love... but Scotch'll do in a pinch.

  22. #22
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    I should add that there are a pair of professional trail builders in my family so a short course in trail building isn't out of the question.
    All you need is love... but Scotch'll do in a pinch.

  23. #23
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    I really think that we're about to reach a tipping point with trail development. There are a couple of meetings happening in the next week that could very well determine the future of mountain biking in the Calgary area for years to come. Whatever the outcome, 2009 could be a very interesting year...

    Ferday - I'd agree with everything you wrote with the exception of leaving Special K as-is. The steep sections are too steep and can't handle the same kind of volume that Moosepackers can. Right now, it's not really sustainable as an XC/AM trail.

    Curbhuck -

    Jitenshakun - I think Toothless and Jean-Guy are lighter-duty FR trails. We can check them out when your Knolly is built, and before building any new stunts anywhere else. Yes, I'm backpedaling. Also, there already is an XC uphill trail parallel to the road. It's called Pneuma, it's sweet and should be completed from RoS to the top of the Moosepackers switchbacks this year. Finally, the Friends of Kananaskis offer trail-building courses at the start of the season. Note that these require you to volunteer as a Trail Care Crew Leader at least twice during the season. Also, they teach IMBA-style XC build technique, with an emphasis on multi-user trails. If you want to learn freeride building, talk to the MM Freeriders.
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  24. #24
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    I just wanna build stuff with a chainsaw, nails and BFH

    Seriously though, that's good advice and at the end of the day I'm just itching to do something what with the new uber bike and all.
    All you need is love... but Scotch'll do in a pinch.

  25. #25
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    Bow Cycle?

    Have you hit up the bike shops that run races in that area? For example Bow Cycle has the Bow 80 and ran it in mud last year. If you look up the results it was over 5 hours for the guys that usually do it in 3. There are at least 2 race teams they sponser, cyclemeisters and dead goats... It would be good for those teams to teach the kids teams to not just trash the trails...

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by AscentCanada
    Have you hit up the bike shops that run races in that area? For example Bow Cycle has the Bow 80 and ran it in mud last year. If you look up the results it was over 5 hours for the guys that usually do it in 3. There are at least 2 race teams they sponser, cyclemeisters and dead goats... It would be good for those teams to teach the kids teams to not just trash the trails...
    I haven't dealt with Bow as anything but a customer, but both CMBA and MMBTS have approached them. Fixes to traditional XC/AM trails in the area would benefit all riders, and make putting on races much easier.
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  27. #27
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    Just sent a message to CMBA. So hopefully we'll meet up for some trail work, rides and beers...

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    Just sent a message to CMBA. So hopefully we'll meet up for some trail work, rides and beers...

    I'll ask my brother in law about the cyclemeisters and trail work...

  29. #29
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    The MMEE application and proposal was submitted today. It was a joint proposal between the CMBA and MMBTS. Hopefully, we all get what we want - more and better trails!
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkrobe
    The MMEE application and proposal was submitted today. It was a joint proposal between the CMBA and MMBTS. Hopefully, we all get what we want - more and better trails!
    Do you have any links or copies of what was submitted? I wouldn't mind taking a read through it...

  31. #31
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    I'm not sure what the final proposal was but here is some info on what they were talking about.

    http://www.cmbalink.com/node/149

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    Quote Originally Posted by AscentCanada
    I'm not sure what the final proposal was but here is some info on what they were talking about.

    http://www.cmbalink.com/node/149
    Thanks for the link.
    I'd previously read most of that already and was hoping to get a bit of a more detailed look at the actual proposal as put forth by CMBA and the MMBTS.

    Maybe pinkrobe has a copy of it he wouldn't mind sharing...(or if he doesn't want to post it, perhaps a PM)

  33. #33
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    I'll try and get permission to post up the documents on the CMBA site, then link back here. The trails to be worked on are all in the south end of the area, and encompass Sulphur Springs trail, 4 of the freeride trails off of Moose Mountain road, and part of Tom Snow. As part of the proposal process, the CMBA went to SRD with a very ambitious plan that would cover an AM trail system from Station Flats to Pinetop and Dawson. My understanding is that SRD liked what they saw, but recommended that the grant proposal be scaled back to something that was more attainable in the 2009 building season. Regardless, it was an interesting process to go through, and will help both groups be better equipped for opportunities like this in the future.

    On a related note, both MMBTS and CMBA are in the process of scheduling trail days for 2009, and will be posting those up fairly soon. These will be in addition to trail days put on by the Friends of Kananaskis Country and Friends of Fish Creek Park.
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  34. #34
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    MMEE final submission

    I've attached the MMEE submission from CMBA and MMBTS. Read, enjoy and comment...
    Attached Files Attached Files
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkrobe
    I've attached the MMEE submission from CMBA and MMBTS. Read, enjoy and comment...
    Thanks for posting that up, it looks great!

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    Good job!

    Hi pinkrobe,

    I just wanted to say "Thank you" from a fellow rider. I have been enjoying the trails on Moose for a while and wanted to thank you for looking at improving them. I didn't know about the CMBA and after reading the thread, I will register with them.

    Thanks a lot.
    A climb is really just a flat piece of road that points up. A headwind is a climb that you can't see. So it's all flat road, really.

  37. #37
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    I'm really hopeful that things go our way with this grant proposal. When I say "our" way, I mean the entire mountain bike community in Calgary and area. My fingers are crossed for sure...

    Any comments on the content of the proposal? Anything that makes you go "hmmmmm..."?
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkrobe
    I'm really hopeful that things go our way with this grant proposal. When I say "our" way, I mean the entire mountain bike community in Calgary and area. My fingers are crossed for sure...

    Any comments on the content of the proposal? Anything that makes you go "hmmmmm..."?
    I don't really have any comment on the content of the proposal, as when I was done reading it, the only word that came to my mind was: AWESOME....I think it is a really big step in the right direction.
    I also think that if we need to focus our effort in term of trail development, I would do it around the Station Flats and the West Bragg Creek areas as they seem to be the most popular, due to their closeness to Calgary. I think the area has a lot of potential and that the existing trails are just scratching the surface of what is possible.

    Again, thanks a lot for your effort and your stewardship on this initiative. It looks like the mountain bike community in Calgary is getting organized and I think it is a very important step.
    A climb is really just a flat piece of road that points up. A headwind is a climb that you can't see. So it's all flat road, really.

  39. #39
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    Hey, thanks for the e-mail. The idea is to develop West Bragg, Station Flats and Pine Top over the next several years with a network of trails. I can't take any credit for past successes, but I do hope to be involved on a go-forward basis.
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkrobe
    Hey, thanks for the e-mail. The idea is to develop West Bragg, Station Flats and Pine Top over the next several years with a network of trails. I can't take any credit for past successes, but I do hope to be involved on a go-forward basis.
    I am not sure where the Pine Top area is, but I think the development of the West Bragg and Station Flats areas is a phenomenal idea. From someone that has only been biking in Calgary for the last few years, I think that one of the area that we need to improve is signage. I know that some of the existing trails are "illegal", hence the lack of signage, but previously in the thread, someone was talking about the Pneuma, or Jean-Guy or Billy Bob trails, and the guys I usually ride with, who have been riding for a while, have no idea where those are.

    My 2c....
    Thanks a lot again.. there are people out there that really appreciate what you're doing.
    A climb is really just a flat piece of road that points up. A headwind is a climb that you can't see. So it's all flat road, really.

  41. #41
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    We got the grant! Well, half of it anyway... Details are here.
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  42. #42
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    Congrats! that is great news. I am so going to have to try to ride Moose mountain if not this year then next, and if they ever build that Hi speed train I will be packing my bike on board and coming to help you guys build trails. Well done!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacemonkey1420
    Congrats! that is great news. I am so going to have to try to ride Moose mountain if not this year then next, and if they ever build that Hi speed train I will be packing my bike on board and coming to help you guys build trails. Well done!
    Thanks! How are things up North? Did y'all apply for the NTC grant?
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