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  1. #1
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    xtr-sram xo shifters..i need details............

    hey guys for those of you who have used both of the above can you tell me the pros and cons for both items in detail......................thanks

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by marco
    hey guys for those of you who have used both of the above can you tell me the pros and cons for both items in detail......................thanks
    Are you asking, the pros and cons between XO and XTR?? If so here are my thoughts.

    For a year I used XTR/XT and prior to that I used Deore, which was fine. From October last year I made the move to Sram XO with a long cage rear derailleur, XT front derailleur, and the XO grip shifts.

    Thoughts on XTR
    • Works great
    • Smooth shifting
    • Reliable
    • Light weight


    Thoughts on SRAM XO
    • Works flawlessly.
    • Buttery smooth shifting that seems smoother than my previous XTR setup
    • Very positive, powerful feel when shifting.
    • Very easy to tune, and much easier than XTR. Seems to stay very much inline over time.
    • Front Derailluer shifter allows you to trim, so I never find myself with a chain rubbing the cage of the front derailleur.
    • Most parts on the rear XO derailleur can be replaced if broken in an accident at a reasonable cost.
    • Can use whatever disk brakes you wish too, and you have a choice between XO grip shift or X9 trigger
    • Quick shifting from one end to another - Really quick - 1 hand movement.


    All in all, I think the SRAM XO derailleur is the better option. That is not to say that Shimano XTR is not good, because indeed it is very good, but rather that the XO seems to function in a superior manner.

    You cant go wrong with either but XO has the upper hand IMHO.

    Sram XO rear derailleur


    Sram XO shifters (CLICK-KLACK-CLICK)


    Hope the info helps
    Trevor!

  3. #3
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    what trevor said +

    Yeop, I agree with Trevor. Don't forget, they are lighter too. However, one con for XO (GS in general) is that you can't brake and shift at the same time.

    And because this is a weight forum...


    XO Derailleur, Med cage


    XO Shifters
    Last edited by split; 03-17-2004 at 06:19 AM.

  4. #4
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    after 10 years using xtr i will never go back. sram xo is much better,better quality, better shifting and no more ghost shifting.
    hey
    ho
    lets go!

  5. #5
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    All these Pro SRAM posts are music to my ears! As most of you know, I've been 100% singlespeed for the last 3-yrs. But, I'm building up a new (geared) bike for the TransRockies. My new parts-kit includes:
    - X.0 rear derailleur, med-cage
    - X.9 triggers
    - PG-990 cassette (11-32)
    - PC-99 chain

    FWIW, 3-yrs ago, my set-up was 8-spd with SRAM Rocket shifters (really nice and crisp) with XTR front/rear derailleurs, cogset and PC-68 chain. It was a good, reliable set-up, but needed replacing. I was a little apprehensive about going 9-spd, but after reading the SRAM reviews, I decided to jump in. I've not be a fan of Shimano since the reverse derailleur. I particularly do not like their new integrated shifter/levers, etc.
    Last edited by 1speed_Mike; 03-17-2004 at 06:48 AM.
    Ride Hard,
    Mike B. (MCM# 7.77)
    http://www.one-speed.com

  6. #6
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    I'll be one to add on for SRAM

    Perfect and precise shifting and love the ability to "trim" the front der.
    I am a definate SRAM fan and even added a SRAM cassette to my ride even though it is heavier than Shimano. Now once SRAM releases their front der in 2005 or 2006, all Shimano will be gone

    KMan



    Quote Originally Posted by 1speed_Mike
    All these Pro SRAM posts are music to my ears! As most of you know, I've been 100% singlespeed for the last 3-yrs. But, I'm building up a new (geared) bike for the TransRockies. My new parts-kit includes:
    - X.0 rear derailleur, med-cage
    - X.9 triggers
    - PG-990 cassette (11-32)
    - PC-99 chain

    FWIW, 3-yrs ago, my set-up was 8-spd with SRAM Rocket shifters (really nice and crisp) with XTR front/rear derailleurs, cogset and PC-68 chain. It was a good, reliable set-up, but needed replacing. I was a little apprehensive about going 9-spd, but after reading the SRAM reviews, I decided to jump in. I've not be a fan of Shimano since the reverse derailleur. I particularly do not like their new integrated shifter/levers, etc.

  7. #7
    (aka SS_MB-7)
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    BTW, I finally got around to installing my Monos last night in preparation for a night ride (hopefully) tonight. Temps are 14F and trails are rock-hard with snow, ice and frozen mud.

    Installation was quick and painless like it always is with Hope stuff. I love how Hope uses the shroud nut and re-useable brass olive...makes cutting the line and re-installing a snap. Bleeding is also a no-brainer, simply attach a bleed hose to the caliper's bleed valve, open the master-cylinder, open the bleed valve and pull the lever, then tighten the bleed valve and release the lever. This effectively pushes fluid from the master-cylinder through the system and out the caliper. Very easy!

    First impression on the stand....nice. Levers are very firm and the feel is silky smooth. Hope they feel the same on the trail.

    I'm not fussy on the new Mono pad retaining pin though. It is held in place via a rubber o-ring and a clip. If that clip should get lost (known problem with XTR calipers), the o-ring is the only thing holding the pad pin in place. Now, when I removed the pads to re-bleed the brakes after cutting the lines, the pin was fairly difficult to remove with nominal thumb pressure, so hopefully, this will not be an issue. I find it odd though that Hope would opt for this type of non-threaded press-fit pin...why not have it threaded for a little more security?
    Ride Hard,
    Mike B. (MCM# 7.77)
    http://www.one-speed.com

  8. #8
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    Most importantly in my oppinion is the fact that new XTR is rapid rise! That means, you turn a sharp corner and meet up with a really steep climb that is unexpected, and you are in the 11 rear cog... You gotta shift rear cogs one by one until in a convenient climbing gear!

    I don't want this happening so I'm changing! Also, I agree (from limited testing although) with the other comments.

    Luego!

    CODMAN
    CODMAN MCM#101

  9. #9
    thats my red stapler
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1speed_Mike
    All these Pro SRAM posts are music to my ears! As most of you know, I've been 100% singlespeed for the last 3-yrs. But, I'm building up a new (geared) bike for the TransRockies. My new parts-kit includes:
    - X.0 rear derailleur, med-cage
    - X.9 triggers
    - PG-990 cassette (11-32)
    - PC-99 chain

    FWIW, 3-yrs ago, my set-up was 8-spd with SRAM Rocket shifters (really nice and crisp) with XTR front/rear derailleurs, cogset and PC-68 chain. It was a good, reliable set-up, but needed replacing. I was a little apprehensive about going 9-spd, but after reading the SRAM reviews, I decided to jump in. I've not be a fan of Shimano since the reverse derailleur. I particularly do not like their new integrated shifter/levers, etc.
    I recently went sram as well after going through the same debate. Ive got X.O up front and the x.9 trigger for the rear. I couldnt be happier with this set up. The final selling point for me aside from all of the above, was that I did not want to be locked into having all shimano.

    Trevor- what kind of cranks/rings are you running? cassette size?

  10. #10
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    Mono's

    My teammate got his first ride on them last weekend and they seemed to work good for him (I never got around to really asking him about them). No noise which is a good thing.
    Mine are still collecting dust for a while longer.

    KMan



    BTW, I finally got around to installing my Monos last night in preparation for a night ride (hopefully) tonight. Temps are 14F and trails are rock-hard with snow, ice and frozen mud.

    Installation was quick and painless like it always is with Hope stuff. I love how Hope uses the shroud nut and re-useable brass olive...makes cutting the line and re-installing a snap. Bleeding is also a no-brainer, simply attach a bleed hose to the caliper's bleed valve, open the master-cylinder, open the bleed valve and pull the lever, then tighten the bleed valve and release the lever. This effectively pushes fluid from the master-cylinder through the system and out the caliper. Very easy!

    First impression on the stand....nice. Levers are very firm and the feel is silky smooth. Hope they feel the same on the trail.

    I'm not fussy on the new Mono pad retaining pin though. It is held in place via a rubber o-ring and a clip. If that clip should get lost (known problem with XTR calipers), the o-ring is the only thing holding the pad pin in place. Now, when I removed the pads to re-bleed the brakes after cutting the lines, the pin was fairly difficult to remove with nominal thumb pressure, so hopefully, this will not be an issue. I find it odd though that Hope would opt for this type of non-threaded press-fit pin...why not have it threaded for a little more security?[/QUOTE]

  11. #11
    Trail rider and racer
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    I am using:
    SRAM XO Long cage rear derailleur
    SRAM 990 11-32 Cassette
    SRAM PC69 Chain
    FSA Carbon pro cranks with XT BB (With FSA ring)

    Perfect setup, amazingly good shifting that doesn't really compare to my last XTR setup (Really). Dirt boy fixed me up with this setup and I am happy I didn't bother with anything else.




    Trevor!

  12. #12
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    trevor, i know its a little off topic but did you feel any loss of spring tension from your eggbeaters pedals? mines are the 02 version and its almost dont have any tension anyomore and im thinking in go back to my shimano 747. i know you had 959 so whats your feelings about your crank brothers pedals?
    thanks
    hey
    ho
    lets go!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlos
    trevor, i know its a little off topic but did you feel any loss of spring tension from your eggbeaters pedals? mines are the 02 version and its almost dont have any tension anyomore and im thinking in go back to my shimano 747. i know you had 959 so whats your feelings about your crank brothers pedals?
    thanks
    carlos, I can't answer your question about spring tension, but I can tell you that the eggbeaters had a huge improvement in durability from 02 to 03. I have a set of 02 eggs, and a set of 03 triple ti's. the newer ones are sealed much better, and the aluminum end caps that thread into the pedal body press on the outer part of the bearings. I guess this fixes the side to side play that was a problem on the early model.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by VT Mike
    carlos, I can't answer your question about spring tension, but I can tell you that the eggbeaters had a huge improvement in durability from 02 to 03. I have a set of 02 eggs, and a set of 03 triple ti's. the newer ones are sealed much better, and the aluminum end caps that thread into the pedal body press on the outer part of the bearings. I guess this fixes the side to side play that was a problem on the early model.
    thanks, i tested a triple ti from a friend and its really improved. now its just the spring tension thas bother me.
    hey
    ho
    lets go!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlos
    thanks, i tested a triple ti from a friend and its really improved. now its just the spring tension thas bother me.
    how much do you guys weigh? im 180 +/- and quite hesistant to buy a ti axel pedal

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimjo
    how much do you guys weigh? im 180 +/- and quite hesistant to buy a ti axel pedal
    i weigth 175lbs but my pedals are the 2002 chrome version. the triple ti weight limit is 185lbs.
    hey
    ho
    lets go!

  17. #17
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    Smile everybody seems to prefare xo over xtr..............

    Quote Originally Posted by marco
    hey guys for those of you who have used both of the above can you tell me the pros and cons for both items in detail......................thanks


    if i get an xtr rear disc brake i'll need to make up my mind whats happening up front on the bars....its just that my friend in the local bike shop cant see past shimano for reliability and quality and even today said to me that sram xo are inferior taiwanese cheaply made products! he thinks that grip shifting is for kids!
    also i borrowed a santa cruz blur today in order to try the new style xt shifting/braking units and i must say that i was impressed...it really didnt take long to get used to the new way of shifting and i thought it made sense with the rapid rise rear mech!
    the only thing i didnt like was that the levers where too narrow compared to the old style xt disc brake lever.
    ok so do most guys say that they haven't had any problems with xo shifters and rear mech?
    what about if you where to have a crash wont that section that sticks out from the shifter not snap off?
    thanks guys!

  18. #18
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    weight savings..

    I know the x/o shifters and rr derailleurs will save weight over xtr shifters/rr derailleurs, but won't you lose it with the sram cassette over the xtr cassette?
    _____________
    It's hard to make a comeback when you haven't been anywhere.

  19. #19
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    You can still run shimano

    Quote Originally Posted by older guy
    I know the x/o shifters and rr derailleurs will save weight over xtr shifters/rr derailleurs, but won't you lose it with the sram cassette over the xtr cassette?
    _____________
    It's hard to make a comeback when you haven't been anywhere.
    You can run any Shimano cassette (dura-ace or XTR) with the SRAM XO. Problem solved. I think it's hard to beat Shimano in the Cassette department in durability and weight. Cost is another thing...

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimjo
    how much do you guys weigh? im 180 +/- and quite hesistant to buy a ti axel pedal
    I'm only 160lb, the triple ti's have a 185lb limit. But if you break the spindle in the first two years they will give you free stainless steel spindles, or they will give you a deal on a new set of ti spindles.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by older guy
    I know the x/o shifters and rr derailleurs will save weight over xtr shifters/rr derailleurs, but won't you lose it with the sram cassette over the xtr cassette?
    _____________
    It's hard to make a comeback when you haven't been anywhere.
    Weight saving excluding cassette is like 4g.

    Trevor!

  22. #22
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    Carlos...

    Carlos,
    Replace your cleats or your egg beaters, this will get rid of the "tension problem". I had this problem and trvor also had the same problem until you put new cleats on, problem solved!
    BTW the cleats wear fast cause they are made from a softer metal then the pedals to stop the pedals from wearing.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bike_freak
    Carlos,
    Replace your cleats or your egg beaters, this will get rid of the "tension problem". I had this problem and trvor also had the same problem until you put new cleats on, problem solved!
    BTW the cleats wear fast cause they are made from a softer metal then the pedals to stop the pedals from wearing.
    thanks, i already did that, actually 4times in two years :-)) in the first times its solved the problem but the last time i replaced the cleats the problem is still there...
    hey
    ho
    lets go!

  24. #24
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    I've heardn than one before...

    Quote Originally Posted by marco
    he thinks that grip shifting is for kids!


    For years I was a RapidFire-only guy. I bought a new commuter (actually just an MTB) with Sachs PowerGrips and since have converted totally to twist shifters, save fir my DS/jump biker. All the advatnages were already mentioned above, so I won't go through that.

    Regarding Shimano's current offerings: they're great engineers', but every couple of years they come up with a bunch of very silly ideas. Dual Control and Rapid Rise are two of them, in my view.

    PS: The X.0 may be made in Taiwan, but it's still a top-quality product!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by marco
    if i get an xtr rear disc brake i'll need to make up my mind whats happening up front on the bars....its just that my friend in the local bike shop cant see past shimano for reliability and quality and even today said to me that sram xo are inferior taiwanese cheaply made products! he thinks that grip shifting is for kids!
    also i borrowed a santa cruz blur today in order to try the new style xt shifting/braking units and i must say that i was impressed...it really didnt take long to get used to the new way of shifting and i thought it made sense with the rapid rise rear mech!
    the only thing i didnt like was that the levers where too narrow compared to the old style xt disc brake lever.
    ok so do most guys say that they haven't had any problems with xo shifters and rear mech?
    what about if you where to have a crash wont that section that sticks out from the shifter not snap off?
    thanks guys!
    i havent heard any probles with durability at all ...as far as crashes go... if you fall hard enough youre going to break anything...here's a scenario for you, you're cranking downhill with your fingers on the breaks, and you need a bigger gear, with the x.9 trigger you use your thumb and shift, no changing hand positions at all, its one of the most intuitive things ...and it shifts as good if not better than the shimano stuff. (and you dont have to have the whole system)

  26. #26
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    I'm going to go against the flow....

    and recomend the XTR. I'm sure it's as much personal preferance though.

    My backround- I've run rockets (I think, whatever the ones were that woudl work with a Shimano rear der.) and then XO. Before that, I ran the shimano XT trigger shifters and they worked fine butI never really liked them. Then, I switched to SRAM for a year and a half and loved it. I ran the older sram brake levers as well and they were great too.

    However, my new bike came with the new XTR rapid rise dual control levers. I thought I was going to hate them and I was going to just pull them off and sell them new (replaced by XO of course!) but I decided to give them one ride. Well, I loved them: here's why:

    -being able to brake and shift(up or down) at the same time.

    -rapid rise. ex: the NCS race in Waco, TX last weekend. I was able to brake on the steep decents while quickly shifting to easier gears for the oncoming climb. You may have to shift one at a time but the action is quicker and, I think, easier.

    -finger positioning. I can keep nothing but my index finger on the shifter/brake lever and still be able to shift well and brake with power (w/ XTR disks- I love them). This is much more comfoatable for my hands.

    Finally, I love the XTR disk brakes. They feel really smooth and pleanty of power to haul my 150lbs racer butt to a stop.

    It's a personal decision, but I would recomend the XTR's. I'm not sure that you could go wrong though....

  27. #27
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    thanks guys but here's a spanner in the works!.....

    another friend has suggested to ditch the shimano dual control system and xo grip shift and go for the sram x9 trigger shifters and xo rear mech.....its meant to be really crisp and the 1:1 ratio is meant to be better than shimano 2:1 ratio.
    what do you think of this?

  28. #28
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    The great thing about Dual Control is that your thumbs are always securely wrapped around the handlebar in a stationary position. There's very little chance of your hand shifting and possibly loosing control due to unexpected hard knocks.

  29. #29
    thats my red stapler
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    Quote Originally Posted by marco
    another friend has suggested to ditch the shimano dual control system and xo grip shift and go for the sram x9 trigger shifters and xo rear mech.....its meant to be really crisp and the 1:1 ratio is meant to be better than shimano 2:1 ratio.
    what do you think of this?
    in terms of the ratios, i really havent noticed any significant difference. Ive read some other stuff suggesting that the distance of throw on the triggers triggers is lessened by the change in the ratio. I think the sram website has more about it. Im sure there is probably changes to the actual leverage needed to make the shifts (this is only for the rear der.) like i said above and for all of the previously mentioned reasons i made the switch to that exact setup and couldnt be happier.

    see this link

    not that it says everything but it says alot
    Last edited by jimjo; 03-19-2004 at 06:46 AM.

  30. #30
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    OT again...

    Carlos, I would just say to contact crank brothers about your problem. I am sure they will work out a special deal with you to get you new parts or a complete pair. It is possible that your pedals lost their tension, although it hasn't happened to me, but I probably don't ride nearly as much as you do

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlos
    thanks, i already did that, actually 4times in two years :-)) in the first times its solved the problem but the last time i replaced the cleats the problem is still there...
    You have probably worn a groove on the bottom of your shoes that make the Eggs feel loose. That happened to me too. When I got new shoes, it went away.

  32. #32
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    Or maybe the ancestor

    Quote Originally Posted by KMan
    Perfect and precise shifting and love the ability to "trim" the front der.
    I am a definate SRAM fan and even added a SRAM cassette to my ride even though it is heavier than Shimano. Now once SRAM releases their front der in 2005 or 2006, all Shimano will be gone

    KMan
    Check out the following link

    $40, 199 grams rear derailleur

    For an alternative that works as well, cost 1/6 and weights 207-8 before tuning. I never used the XO but I had both XTR (1997) and XT (2003) and the Sachs is much more positive in its action and easier to set up than either one. You can still find the Quartz around for $25 ...

  33. #33
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    Agreed - Try new shoes Carlos. - Eggs & Times wear grooves in shoes as mentioned above....

    XO vs. XTR - I like the new Shimano stuff but certain XO is lighter...Better? I dunno, I'm a Shimano guy
    BTW - The integrated XT levers feel terrible imho...

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