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  1. #1
    KevinK
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    Whats your choice and why...09 Scott Genius 20 vs. Ibis Mojo SL

    Ibis Mojo with a weight around 22 lbs, Stock. 5.5" travel bike.


    Or the 09 Scott Genius 20, with modifications, weight around 24 lbs. 6" travel bike.
    Pictured is the Scott Genius LTD, but the bike I am interested in is the Genius 20


    I test rode both, and have to say, the Scott felt more efficient, just by a bit, on ascents, which I love. The down hills, the Scott wins, with 6" of travel, I rode over everything.
    The Non SL Mojo I test rode was really nice. I have to test it again, to make sure.

    Your thoughts.....

    Kevin
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  2. #2
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    Considering the Genius is outrageously priced, I would say the mojo sl for SURE.

  3. #3
    KevinK
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    Actually, the Scott is less expensive....

    Mojo SL w/ WTF group is around $6400.00.
    Scott Genius 20, with a few component swaps is around $6000.00

    Price not with standing, what is your choice and why.

    Thanks,

    Kevin

  4. #4
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    Depends what you want it for I would say. The Ibis seems more suited to racing (of the two) while the Scott appears to lean more towards a fast trail bike? The Scott looks like it could be more high maintenance with the pivots and rear shock more exposed to mud and dirt from the back wheel. These are just guesses though by looking at the pictures - I'm sure they are both amazing bikes being from well respected companies - either would certainly keep me happy (for a while until the next must-have thing comes out).

  5. #5
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    Something to consider - but think about where you can get the shocks serviced. I don't know who does Scott shocks other than Scott?

    Personally though i think both of these bikes are a bit silly. Why someone needs 140/150mm of travel for "Trail" is beyond me. I recently used 130mm forks but switched back to 100mm becuase i just didn't need the extra travel and weight. Your Skill govens which you use, blast through it or ride over it etc.

    Anyway out of the two its a hard choice. Ibis's CS is amazing - but then again the Scott has some nice kit on it.

  6. #6
    STS
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    I would choose the genius for one reason: you have 3 bikes in one, hardtail/shorttravel/150mm and from the handlebar

    equalizer shocks are a little special, but in case you need service, scott repair them in 24h

  7. #7
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    i would go for the ibis no questions,

    1) scott are common (well atleast where i am)
    2)the ibis is just so awesome looking not to mention the ride quality
    3)the finish on the sl is far superior to most other finishes on the market

    and look where the shock is located on the scott, any mud/grit/sand that is flicked up on that slighty lubricated shock is going to stick, and trust me ive seen systems much the same and that grime eventually works under the seal (well the outer dust cap) where it sits grinding away on your shock

    for me the only positive about the scott is the sram build - i must say im a bit of a fanboy and loath shimano but even so the ibis is still looking good.

  8. #8
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    Thats not entirely correct regarding the Scott shock - it expands rather than compress to give suspension, funny setup but hey what ever. So it wont be much of an issue - and who knows there might be something down there to protect it.

    Have you considered buy just the frame and building it exactly how you want? Saves money and well you get what you want don't you.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by liam2051
    for me the only positive about the scott is the sram build - i must say im a bit of a fanboy and loath shimano but even so the ibis is still looking good.
    Lets just remember the OP is comparing the Genius 20, that’s the $13,225 Genius Ltd in the pic at the top of the page, here is the Genius 20.

    http://marketing.scottusa.com/marketing_contents/hires/Genius_20.jpg

    The Ibis is proven the Scott isn’t, if you want to take the risk with a company that is known to regularly have first year problems on new models then that’s fine and it’s good to hear Scott has supposedly brought back the release of this bike for various reasons to make sure its’ ready. As said already the finish (rubberized coating) on the Ibis is outstanding, you won’t find any other carbon bikes with such a good long lasting finish as that. As to why it has 150mm travel, the travel is there to enhance the ride of it as a trail bike not to be used as an all mountain bike, as you’ll read in the reviews if you treat this bike right it is brilliant but it’s not an all mountain bike because of its travel. Problems with Scott’s shocks are pretty rare (compared to Spesh anyway), they’re made by DT Swiss so they’re pretty good quality. I’ve not ridden the Genius yet (I have ridden the Mojo and it’s brilliant), I don’t like down tube cable routing (even one cable on the Genius), I hate the XT brakes on the Genius and I’d much rather have the XTR on the Mojo SL, that’s why I would go for the Mojo.

  10. #10
    KevinK
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    The Scott Genius 09 is a completely different bike compared to the MC Genius...

    The US was unable to sell the Genius line, for conflict of a patent owned by specialized, however, by completely redesigning the bike, Scott has relocated the pivot point to the seat post. This is the first year in quite some time, Scott can sell the Genius line in the US. If you are riding the MC genius, I have heard from someone who has ridden the MC and the 09 Genius, that the 09 is much smoother, and a more efficient bike. The Scott Genius 20, 2009 model, has a rear shock that adjust from Locked out, to 95mm of travel(traction mode), to 150mm. Also has adjustments on two chambers for push and pull. Scott and DT worked together to create this shock. The front fork is also specifically made for the Genius line with on the fly adjustments from 110mm, 130mm and 150mm with a lock out on the other fork crown. Scott only makes the 150mm Talus for this bike and is not for sale to the public...yet. I would love the DT Exc Carbon 150mm Fork on the LTD, but, it is around $1500.00 USD.

    So far, I have two rides on the Scott demo bike, from my LBS. The second ride, I decided to hammer up the hills, and felt a tiny bit pedal bob. My friend who owns an Ibis Mojo, also says he feels slight pedal bob when hammering up hills when in propedal mode. I am going to try and find a dealer who has an SL to test, but, I must say, as of now, I am favoring the Scott.

    I did look into purchasing the Frame, and building the bike from scratch, but, the parts I want replaced can be done, on the 20, with minimal extra currency. Going to change the Shifters and rear derailleur to Sram X.0, hubs will be DT Swiss 240s on a Mavic 819 UST rim, and, when available, Formula R1 brakes.

    Thanks for all your input. It is greatly appreciated.

    If anyone has ridden both the 09 Genius and the Ibis SL, please post your impressions, strengths, weaknesses of each bike.

    Thanks,

    Kevin

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinK
    The US was unable to sell the Genius line, for conflict of a patent owned by specialized, however, by completely redesigning the bike, Scott has relocated the pivot point to the seat post. This is the first year in quite some time, Scott can sell the Genius line in the US. If you are riding the MC genius, I have heard from someone who has ridden the MC and the 09 Genius, that the 09 is much smoother, and a more efficient bike. The Scott Genius 20, 2009 model, has a rear shock that adjust from Locked out, to 95mm of travel(traction mode), to 150mm. Also has adjustments on two chambers for push and pull. Scott and DT worked together to create this shock. The front fork is also specifically made for the Genius line with on the fly adjustments from 110mm, 130mm and 150mm with a lock out on the other fork crown. Scott only makes the 150mm Talus for this bike and is not for sale to the public...yet. I would love the DT Exc Carbon 150mm Fork on the LTD, but, it is around $1500.00 USD.
    Actually I believe the Talas and Float 150mm are now available although still very hard to come by with the 15mm through axle and weight and carbon aside the DT fork is not as good as the Talas either.

  12. #12
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    Mojo SL

    is my choice:

    DW link, proven reliability, and top notch customer service if you need it. Ibis is one of those companies you can just pick up phone and call, and talk to someone who rides the bikes every day.
    I disagree with those that say "why bother with the extra travel", I used to be in this camp, but after testing the Mojo, I realised I could build up a Mojo SL at the same weight as a good 4" travel bike, and have a faster, more efficient ride for any ride longer than a couple of hours.

  13. #13
    KevinK
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    Thanks, I've been following Hans, and a few others from Ibis, post here on this site, and have to say, that their customer service is second to none. Talked to my LBS and found out the new 09 Sl's are going to be available in October, so, I plan to test one out for the day. I have to admit, I am favoring the SL now. Just went to Ibis's site, and saw the new and beautiful Lopes Link. That sent me over the edge!

    Kevin

  14. #14
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    I had the same dilemma. On paper both are good bikes. However, I had the opportunity to ride both over the last few weeks and the IBIS is on order - not the Scott.

    Here are the factors in my decision:

    Climbing - Mojo turned out to be a much better climber. The Scott power transfer didn't feel right to me and there was noticeable bob unless I locked it out. Even then, the climbing was not nearly as good as other bikes I tried (Blur LT, Cannondale Rize or the MOJO). The MOJO rivaled my beloved 5 year old Blur Classic or my SC Superlight in climbing. I didn't bother with the propedal with te Mojo as it climbed quite well with out it. In this regard the DW seemed similar to the VPP - the harder I pushed it up hill the better the linkage worked this was NOT the case with the Scott. Frankly, I would rather not have to deal with flipping a lever in order to climb better. I would use the IBIS propedal on out of the saddle road climbs

    Feel/Ride - I know that this is a very subjective aspect, but the Scott seemed to separate me from the trail, while I felt "one with" the trail with the Mojo. Both were fast, but the Mojo left me more in contact with what the trail was doing. Also, the Mojo seemed more precise in steering. (Precise steering is where the Cannondale Rize won - the lefty is truly an amazing fork. Unfortunately, the Rize rear end loses movement with breaking - much like the single pivot Superlight.) The Scott seemed to put me up too high and was not as fun on squirrelly trails - I suspect that this is why KevinK liked the Mojo better on DH. The Mojo was responsive and fun on fast-turning rolling trails

    Braking - Both were good and had active movement of the rear end while breaking.

    Downhill - I only did a little of this since I was on Demo bikes; however, the Mojo provided greater confidence on rather steep sections.

    Acceleration - Both outstanding accelerating out of turns. My impression was that the Mojo accelerated better into small climbs.

    Value - Again, the Mojo beats the Scott. The MOJO sl XTR kit at about 23 pounds has all XTR, while the Scott is a combination of XT and XTR

  15. #15
    KevinK
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    Quote Originally Posted by youngoldguy
    I had the same dilemma. On paper both are good bikes. However, I had the opportunity to ride both over the last few weeks and the IBIS is on order - not the Scott.

    Here are the factors in my decision:

    Climbing - Mojo turned out to be a much better climber. The Scott power transfer didn't feel right to me and there was noticeable bob unless I locked it out. Even then, the climbing was not nearly as good as other bikes I tried (Blur LT, Cannondale Rize or the MOJO). The MOJO rivaled my beloved 5 year old Blur Classic or my SC Superlight in climbing. I didn't bother with the propedal with te Mojo as it climbed quite well with out it. In this regard the DW seemed similar to the VPP - the harder I pushed it up hill the better the linkage worked this was NOT the case with the Scott. Frankly, I would rather not have to deal with flipping a lever in order to climb better. I would use the IBIS propedal on out of the saddle road climbs

    Feel/Ride - I know that this is a very subjective aspect, but the Scott seemed to separate me from the trail, while I felt "one with" the trail with the Mojo. Both were fast, but the Mojo left me more in contact with what the trail was doing. Also, the Mojo seemed more precise in steering. (Precise steering is where the Cannondale Rize won - the lefty is truly an amazing fork. Unfortunately, the Rize rear end loses movement with breaking - much like the single pivot Superlight.) The Scott seemed to put me up too high and was not as fun on squirrelly trails - I suspect that this is why KevinK liked the Mojo better on DH. The Mojo was responsive and fun on fast-turning rolling trails

    Braking - Both were good and had active movement of the rear end while breaking.

    Downhill - I only did a little of this since I was on Demo bikes; however, the Mojo provided greater confidence on rather steep sections.

    Acceleration - Both outstanding accelerating out of turns. My impression was that the Mojo accelerated better into small climbs.

    Value - Again, the Mojo beats the Scott. The MOJO sl XTR kit at about 23 pounds has all XTR, while the Scott is a combination of XT and XTR

    Thanks, this is the exact information I was looking for. I think my experience of the Scott was similar, but, climbing using the traction mode, which is 95mm of travel, without changing the height of the rear suspension, felt pretty good with minimal bob.

    I have to wait until October to try out a Mojo, that's when the new 09's will be ready for demo. I can't wait to test out the DW Link suspension of long steep climbs. From all that I have read, it seems like the DW is hard pressed to be challenged by any other kind of design, especially for hills, which I love to hammer up.

    Love your comparison. Your right on with a better components package, and weight savings with the Mojo SL.. I can get a killer deal on an 09 Genius, but, still have to wait until I try the Mojo out. I have to admit, with Turner and other bike manufactureres switching to the DW link suspension, it must be a great advantage when riding, or they would have stayed with a technology where they didn't have to pay for patent rights.

    Thanks for the Awesome, informative response,

    Kevin

  16. #16
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    Without even riding the bike I can say that the main reason you should NOT buy the Scott is because it has a 'faux-bar' linkage with the pivot on the seatstay. They had to compromise the design of the suspension in order to not conflict with Specialized's 'Horst-Link' patent in America. Therefore, the US Market Scott doesn't even compare with what they get overseas.

    FYI, the 'faux-bar' linkage is undesirable because when you activate the rear brake it effectively locks out movement of the rear suspension. Unfortunately, I know this all too well because that is what I ride.

    I don't know if the DW-Link suffers from the same problem, but it certainly has a better rear wheel axle path than the Scott which should make it better over square-edged bumps.

    Oh, this is a great link to watch rear suspension designs in action! Compare the Gary Fisher Hi-Fi to the Fuji Reveal and look closely
    at the movement of the rear brake caliper.

    http://www.bicycling.com/shockworks/home.html
    Last edited by ginsu2k; 09-11-2008 at 03:34 PM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ginsu2k
    Without even riding the bike I can say that the main reason you should NOT buy the Scott is because it has a 'faux-bar' linkage with the pivot on the seatstay. They had to compromise the design of the suspension in order to not conflict with Specialized's 'Horst-Link' patent in America. Therefore, the US Market Scott doesn't even compare with what they get overseas.

    FYI, the 'faux-bar' linkage is undesirable because when you activate the rear brake it effectively locks out movement of the rear suspension. Unfortunately, I know this all too well because that is what I ride.

    Get, the Ibis for the DW-Link!
    The improvements over the previous Genius far outweigh the change to faux bar, some bikes you can’t even notice any brake jack like Rocky Mountain’s 3D Link but some you can like the old Trek Fuel.

    I’d like to also say that some of you are putting far too much emphasis on the suspension, there is much more to making a great bike than that.

    KevinK
    Yes DW Link is probably the best suspension system on paper but Marin’s Quad Link, Giant’s Maestro, VPP2 and several others are very close on paper and some of them ride better depending on what bike and how they are set up.

  18. #18
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    Smile

    Rent both bikes and see what you think. might be a challange for the Scott
    bike though. I have a mojo and a scott scale. the bikes are a great complement
    to each other with quick but stable handling characteristics. the mojo is a great
    bike compared to any other full suspension bike I have ever had. I am sure
    the genius is a great bike except for the vulnerability to mud in the lower
    shock area or snow.
    just my nickels worth of opinion

  19. #19
    Slow riding mama's boy
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    Smile Quit slumming.

    Everyone who's anyone rides a Seven. Ha. Get one! Everyone's doing it...

    Kevin, you'll make either of these fly and it will be even harder to catch you. Totally unfair. Don't let me near your brake lines...

    Joel

  20. #20
    KevinK
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    I think I will invest in some Titanium braided brake lines :P

    See you on the trails Joel,

    Kevin

  21. #21
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    I tested an Ibis Mojo SL WTF and it didnt feel like a 21.9 lb bike that Ibis claimed it to be

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinK
    Ibis Mojo with a weight around 22 lbs, Stock. 5.5" travel bike.


    Or the 09 Scott Genius 20, with modifications, weight around 24 lbs. 6" travel bike.
    Pictured is the Scott Genius LTD, but the bike I am interested in is the Genius 20


    I test rode both, and have to say, the Scott felt more efficient, just by a bit, on ascents, which I love. The down hills, the Scott wins, with 6" of travel, I rode over everything.
    The Non SL Mojo I test rode was really nice. I have to test it again, to make sure.

    Your thoughts.....

    Kevin

  22. #22
    The MTB Lab
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    Quote Originally Posted by spartan23
    I tested an Ibis Mojo SL WTF and it didnt feel like a 21.9 lb bike that Ibis claimed it to be
    Did you weigh it? Did it have the same exact tires, etc. Sometimes the build can be tweaked so it might have some variance to it's weight. I have a plain Mojo with some light parts but have fat tires and a 20mm fork and it's 24 lbs, take off 1 lb for the 20mm fork vs the Manitou MRD and the extra .5 lbs for the SL frame (I have most of the WTF parts, such as the DT Swiss shock) and that would be 22.5 with far tires.

    The DW Link is a pretty brilliant suspension system. The Mojo sticks like glue climbing up nasty terrain and has some amazing laser like steering, it's a very neutral and fast bike that can be outfitted to be a XC or a XCish AM bike.

    I haven't ridden the Scott so I can't comment on it's ride, only the Mojo.

  23. #23
    Super Fly
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    I just put my Mojo SL together. Setup compose of Mavic SLR wheelset (damn set weight in over 1600 Grams w/o Skewers), Extralite cranks, Fox Talas 140RLC, Fox RP23 shock, Sram X.O. and XTR. Tubeless Hutchinson Python. Total weight is 23 pounds ( with heavy Speedplay Drillium pedals). Test rode it on the street and WOW, it feels so solid and pedal with very little effort. Steering feels so precise, like laser lock. I need to compare it to my Specialized S-works Stumpjumper Carbon (also 23 pounds) to see the difference. I demo a Scott before, very nice bike but didnt buy it because it looks like it need lots of maintenance.

    Tin

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