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  1. #1
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    Waiting for E-bones W or order Tunes?

    Got word from Extralite that they are not pleased with the tests on the new E-Bones W cranks with integrated BB . They will have to go back to the drawing board and redesign some stuff.
    They don't think they can deliver until end january 2005..

    I was thinking instead of waiting for an (yet) unproven product, to go ahead and order something else for my new Project:


    Tune Fast Foot Compact (58/94mm 5-star ) (394g)
    BB Tune Sixpack Ti 113mm (142g)
    Titanium BB Bolts (14g)
    Tune 20T/32T Ti Rings (18g + 40g)
    TA 42T (70g)
    Ti crankset bolts (set of 15 - 20g)..
    = 670g

    the E-Bones I had calculated at 610g

    any thoughts about the Tune design??

    any other crank options in the 600-650g (complete) region?

    Last edited by Big Bad Wolf; 12-16-2004 at 02:37 PM.
    Titanium or Bust !

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Bad Wolf
    Got word from Extralite that they are not pleased with the tests on the new E-Bones W cranks with integrated BB . They will have to go back to the drawing board and redesign some stuff.
    They don't think they can deliver until end january 2005..

    I was thinking instead of waiting for an (yet) unproven product, to go ahead and order something else for my new Project:


    Tune Fast Foot Compact (58/94mm 5-star ) (394g)
    BB Tune Sixpack Ti 107mm (139g)
    Titanium BB Bolts (14g)
    Tune 20T/32T Ti Rings (18g + 40g)
    TA 42T (70g)
    Ti crankset bolts (set of 15 - 20g)..
    = 667g

    the E-Bones I had calculated at 610g

    any thoughts about the Tune design??

    any other crank options in the 600-650g (complete) region?

    "old" E-bones weigh 474g
    Scandium ISIS BB 120g (+30g bolts)=150g
    total: 525g

    Storck Powerarms pro 320g
    decent light rings (TA Specialite ...) 140g
    Al-bolts: 13g
    Scandium ISIS BB+bolts= 150g
    total: 623g

  3. #3
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    How strong/durable are scandium BB for ~200lb riders. All the talk has had me curious. I'm currently, happilly, running an FSA platinum pro ti isis bb.

    On a side note, does anyone know of the material spec or alloy designation for these "scandium" alloys? I'd like to look it up and check out its mechanical specs. Or maybe a vendor of the material has some brochure on some website?
    "I've come to believe that common sense is not that common" - Matt Timmerman

  4. #4
    nightriding is fun !
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    Quote Originally Posted by nino
    "old" E-bones weigh 474g
    Scandium ISIS BB 120g (+30g bolts)=150g
    total: 525g

    Storck Powerarms pro 320g
    decent light rings (TA Specialite ...) 140g
    Al-bolts: 13g
    Scandium ISIS BB+bolts= 150g
    total: 623g
    The Olde E-Bones are sadly no longer available..

    Storck only saves 44g but perhaps worth looking into.
    Titanium or Bust !

  5. #5
    nightriding is fun !
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    scandium alloy

    Easton also has a word or 2 about scandium on their website.


    On a sidenote: The Tune SixPack BB looks very solid
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Titanium or Bust !

  6. #6
    A little of everything
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    Don't buy the BB's with aluminum axels. I had one for 14 days before I broke it on two pieces. I'm 86kg, so it's not for you. If I was a very light person, I would MABY use it on a road bike or maby not at all. I have ridden the FSA Platinum Ti for about 1 year now, and this is the best ISIS BB I have had, no problems until now. Just keep the water out of the BB shell, by drilling a hole on the bottom of it. Water is a BB's worst enemy. That Sixpack BB looks very nice, but I don't like the Tune cranks though. it would be nice to see other cranks for that standard, but maby they have gotten the Shimano flue.

  7. #7
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    correct...

    Quote Originally Posted by Anders
    Don't buy the BB's with aluminum axels. I had one for 14 days before I broke it on two pieces. I'm 86kg, so it's not for you. If I was a very light person, I would MABY use it on a road bike or maby not at all. I have ridden the FSA Platinum Ti for about 1 year now, and this is the best ISIS BB I have had, no problems until now. Just keep the water out of the BB shell, by drilling a hole on the bottom of it. Water is a BB's worst enemy. That Sixpack BB looks very nice, but I don't like the Tune cranks though. it would be nice to see other cranks for that standard, but maby they have gotten the Shimano flue.
    the light scandium BBs are definitely NOT well suited for his 200 lbs. there is a triple-bearing (!!) version with much thicker axle though, still out of scandium.
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  8. #8
    nightriding is fun !
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    Quote Originally Posted by nino
    well - i have a set left, complete with rings
    hmm tempting, but i'm quite fond of that Ti Sixpack by now.. pity it is a hidden part of the bike

    I'm checking with Tune for the pricing for the set I proposed in the first post..

    Why don't you mail me a couple of pics and price of the e-bones set?
    Titanium or Bust !

  9. #9
    MaLóŒ¢*size=
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    what do you sell, the extralite crank arms or the power arms?

  10. #10
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    Nino, you know the rules, why break them? Your first post was already on the edge, I just got here late.
    EVERYONE : if you want to mention anything you have you might sell, just slip MTBR the $2 you owe them for a classifieds ad. If you can't sell it with a MTBR ad, nobody wants you stuff for any price. The $2 is a solid investment.

    Somebody starting a thread on light cranks doesn't make it okay to bombard them with spare cranks and BB's you would part with, even if they ask for it. Keep the forums clean, so they survive and can stay on topic.

    Thanks on behalf of MTBR and the volunteer team of moderators.
    Klok - XC - Skate - Ski

  11. #11
    MaLóŒ¢*size=
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    why break them nino?

  12. #12
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    Thanks MaLoL, but I'm pretty sure the moderator team can handle it.
    You could help out by just acting helpful and friendly overall. Yes, like Nino does.

    Luckily more people accidentally post spam than intentionally act unfriendly.
    Klok - XC - Skate - Ski

  13. #13
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    sorry - here they are again...

    I'm sorry!
    below you see the mentioned E-bones
    and here's the classified ad. i wanted to place the ad right away but my son forced me outside of the house to go cycling so i couldn't make it happen immediately....sorry again!
    http://classifieds.mtbr.com/cgi-bin/...exact_match=on
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  14. #14
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    Aah, that's better, thanks.

    I wasn't aware those cranks existed, wow that's light! And I'm trying to build a light setup around 445g 180mm Turbines...
    Those cranks are just drop-dead sexy, wish I were rich and 20cm shorter.
    Klok - XC - Skate - Ski

  15. #15
    nightriding is fun !
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    Any thoughts on the different spider sizes..

    I favour 5-star standard designs (110/74mm) because they are stronger..

    Now I see there is also a compact 5-star 58/94 design as opposed to the 4-star 64/104mm compact design

    Advantage of the 58/94 over the 64/104 , besides the obvious greater strenght and better power distribution, looks to be the possibility to mount 29tooth rings,
    might be that the 64/104mm spider is a bit lighter though ?

    any other advantages/disadvantages of the two compact designs ?
    Last edited by Big Bad Wolf; 12-18-2004 at 06:51 AM.
    Titanium or Bust !

  16. #16
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    compact...

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Bad Wolf
    Any thoughts on the different spider sizes..

    I favour 5-star standard designs (110/74mm) because they are stronger..

    Now I see there is also a compact 5-star 58/94 design as opposed to the 4-star 64/104mm compact design

    Advantage of the 58/94 over the 64/104 , besides the obvious greater strenght and better power distribution, looks to be the possibility to mount 29tooth rings,
    might be that the 64/104mm spider is a bit lighter though ?

    any other advantages/disadvantages of the two compact designs ?
    nowadays evenXTR comes with compact.
    the Extralite rings are the lightest rings you can buy so any possible weight savings with other compact sizes will be outweighed by these rings.

    you can get a 30t from Extralite. see here:
    http://www.sales.light-bikes.com/ext...#Drive%20Train

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Bad Wolf
    Tune Fast Foot Compact (58/94mm 5-star ) (394g)
    BB Tune Sixpack Ti 113mm (142g)
    Titanium BB Bolts (14g)
    Tune 20T/32T Ti Rings (18g + 40g)
    TA 42T (70g)
    Ti crankset bolts (set of 15 - 20g)..
    = 670g


    [/FONT]
    I really like your proposed crankset but I would probably use some lighter Boone rings and you could save another 5g if you were willing to use Al chainring bolts instead of Ti.

  18. #18
    nightriding is fun !
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    Thanks, I'm pretty convinced that combo will go on my new bike.
    No, I'm not willing to use alu as chainring bolts..call it Ti addiction
    Boone's , yes, perhaps later I think I will start out with only the small chainring in Ti and the other 2 Specialites TA alu ones .
    Last edited by Big Bad Wolf; 12-18-2004 at 04:25 PM.
    Titanium or Bust !

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Bad Wolf
    Thanks, I'm pretty convinced that combo will go on my new bike.
    No, I'm not willing to use alu as chainring bolts..call it Ti addiction
    Boone's , yes, perhaps later I think I will start out with only the small chainring in Ti (, and the other 2 Spec. TA alu ones (33g and 67 g).
    I know very well about your addiction

    btw, the Boone 42t is only 65g

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by eurorider
    I know very well about your addiction

    btw, the Boone 42t is only 65g
    One thing with the Boone's: since they are smaller than regular chainrings, you have to use spacers to put the middle ring exactly in the middle, that adds up a few g's again...
    Titanium or Bust !

  21. #21
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    But where?

    Quote Originally Posted by nino
    the light scandium BBs are definitely NOT well suited for his 200 lbs. there is a triple-bearing (!!) version with much thicker axle though, still out of scandium.
    Are they commercially available? I can't find them anywhere.

  22. #22
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    they have them here

    Quote Originally Posted by MegaVolt
    Are they commercially available? I can't find them anywhere.

    scandium isis bb

    and

    scandium isis bb.

  23. #23
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    The brass spacers weigh 2g.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anders
    The brass spacers weigh 2g.
    what brass spacers might that be Anders?? The ones for the chainrings or are you talking about the scandium BB setup?
    Titanium or Bust !

  25. #25
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    Those for the chainrings. It was 3g.

    <img src="http://userportal.iha.dk/~20033774/THE-MA~1/parts/bolts_files/Chain%20ring%20spacers%205pcs%203g.JPG">

  26. #26
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    New question here. Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by eurorider
    Thanks for the links!
    I am still hesitant what to get because the weight/price correlation is too illogical for me to catch it.

    Extralite IBB2 145g without bolts $67
    Token Titanium 167g without bolts $94
    How can that be?!

    Extralite IBB4 (Scandium one) 158g with bolts, $119
    Token Scandium 160g without bolts $94
    Plus someone once said, "there's just 1 manufacturer of scandium BBs. he does the New-Ultimate, Spada and others too."

    I know there must be a simple explanatioin. Anyone would care to share it with me please?

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaVolt
    Thanks for the links!
    I am still hesitant what to get because the weight/price correlation is too illogical for me to catch it.

    Extralite IBB2 145g without bolts $67
    Token Titanium 167g without bolts $94
    How can that be?!

    Extralite IBB4 (Scandium one) 158g with bolts, $119
    Token Scandium 160g without bolts $94
    Plus someone once said, "there's just 1 manufacturer of scandium BBs. he does the New-Ultimate, Spada and others too."

    I know there must be a simple explanatioin. Anyone would care to share it with me please?
    there IS just one manufacturer of those scandium BBs.

    the triple-bearing scandium BBs are the ones for MTB use. there are also 2 bearing versions but those are suggested for road use only. logically the triple bearing ones are heavier than the double bearing ones...

    pricing off Taiwan (that's where ALL are made) is rather cheap so each "manufacturer" has it's own, different pricing...

  28. #28
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    Just to make sure I got it right.

    Quote Originally Posted by nino
    there IS just one manufacturer of those scandium BBs.

    the triple-bearing scandium BBs are the ones for MTB use. there are also 2 bearing versions but those are suggested for road use only. logically the triple bearing ones are heavier than the double bearing ones...

    pricing off Taiwan (that's where ALL are made) is rather cheap so each "manufacturer" has it's own, different pricing...
    I see.
    My thought was, if it’s the same scandium bb then it would have to have the bolts with it because they were supposed to be longer to provide more support for an “emptier” and “hollower” spindle.

    Now it seems like longer bolts only come with "road type" BBs, and mtb triple bearings are sold without bolts and can probably be used with regular crank bolts.

    So, the weights to choose from would be Scandium MTB BB with triple bearings 160g
    or Titanium MTB BB with triple bearings 167g, right?
    (I'm using Token BB's weighs for reference).

    And the rest of the light-weight BB's are either less durable, or heavier than that, right?

    If I understand it right, all typical ISIS problems are caused by the small size of the ball bearings manufacturers have to use due to ISIS specs, and triple/quad ball bearings designs is the only workaround, and out of the triple ball bearings (i.e. more or less durable) BB's the two mentioned above new Scandium/Titanium BBs are simply the lightest?)

    I know I'm a bore, but if you have managed to read all that mess of mine, please reply something.

  29. #29
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    3 options...

    Quote Originally Posted by MegaVolt
    I see.
    My thought was, if it�s the same scandium bb then it would have to have the bolts with it because they were supposed to be longer to provide more support for an �emptier� and �hollower� spindle.

    Now it seems like longer bolts only come with "road type" BBs, and mtb triple bearings are sold without bolts and can probably be used with regular crank bolts.

    So, the weights to choose from would be Scandium MTB BB with triple bearings 160g
    or Titanium MTB BB with triple bearings 167g, right?
    (I'm using Token BB's weighs for reference).

    And the rest of the light-weight BB's are either less durable, or heavier than that, right?

    If I understand it right, all typical ISIS problems are caused by the small size of the ball bearings manufacturers have to use due to ISIS specs, and triple/quad ball bearings designs is the only workaround, and out of the triple ball bearings (i.e. more or less durable) BB's the two mentioned above new Scandium/Titanium BBs are simply the lightest?)

    I know I'm a bore, but if you have managed to read all that mess of mine, please reply something.
    fact:
    ISIS is a pain in the A$$. durability is a big problem as you already pointed out.

    so with ISIS you have basically 3 options:

    -get ANY ISIS BB and don't expect too long bearing life. some are dead after just a few rides (remember 1st generation Amclassic?), some seem to hold up a bit more but none is durable.

    -get a FRM Aluminium BB where you can at least change the bearings on your own. better so as these also wear pretty fast.

    -get a Scandium BB with dual bearing and at least have the really lightest or triple bearing and HOPE they have better durability. they sure will last longer but if that's as durable as lets say an XT octalink has to be seen...

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