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Thread: Tuned BB7's?

  1. #1
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    Tuned BB7's?

    I know, I know! Why would any self-respecting WW be using brake's like this?

    I searched and came up with nothing. What I seek is anyone out there that has tuned their BB7's, either ti/al bolt's and/or shaving/milling/drilling.

    Anyone out there? Results? I know that there were a few guy's running ti/al bolt's, but the other tuning is what i'm really after.

    PATIA!
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  2. #2
    mechmann_mtb
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    i have actually been considering doing some tuning on the Juicy7's on my bike. after looking at the new Juicy7 Carbons, they really took a lot of meat out of the clamp area.

  3. #3
    discombobulated SuperModerator
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    'tuned' is that some WW term? or is it 'turned' as in reduce the rotor thickness...?
    CDT

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    This has been covered in the past, try searching under Avid Mechanicals

    Light weight cables and housing, light brake levers, some nice rotors like the new 2 peice Hopes and a bunch of Alu/Ti bolts is pretty much all the can be done. I'm sure there was ways of shaving the calipers down if you REALLY want to save weight...


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    Quote Originally Posted by CdaleTony
    'tuned' is that some WW term? or is it 'turned' as in reduce the rotor thickness...?
    CDT
    Tuned, not turned. Tuning of parts referrs to swapping steel bolts with ti/aluminum and some shaving here and there. Shaving would be material removal (ie filing, dremeling, milling, drilling etc).
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    Quote Originally Posted by bike_freak
    This has been covered in the past, try searching under Avid Mechanicals

    Light weight cables and housing, light brake levers, some nice rotors like the new 2 peice Hopes and a bunch of Alu/Ti bolts is pretty much all the can be done. I'm sure there was ways of shaving the calipers down if you REALLY want to save weight...
    I did search. C'mon man, I ain't THAT new anymore. Avid gave me 25 results with nothing, avid mechanical gave me 20 results with nothing.

    I'm looking for any info about if anyone out there HAS done any shaving and what their results were. I guess i'll just attack the old pair over the holiday's.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewTO
    I did search. C'mon man, I ain't THAT new anymore. Avid gave me 25 results with nothing, avid mechanical gave me 20 results with nothing.

    I'm looking for any info about if anyone out there HAS done any shaving and what their results were. I guess i'll just attack the old pair over the holiday's.
    I remember this topic has been covered in the past, but sadly, i also can't find it

    One other thing that would save some weight is using Post mount forks and Frame


  8. #8
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    yes, but.....unless you already have all the ti/alu hardware, and lighter levers, you may be better off to sell the mech stuff and just get some juicys. for the money you'd spend on the bolts vs. the cost of the hydros minus the cost from selling the mechs, that is what i'd reccomend.

    i just swapped two bikes from bb7/paul love lever/full housing setup to a jucy-5 setup.

    the old mech stuff was using ti and alu hardware, and i still dropped a little more weight by going with the juicy5s.

    not only do i love the hydros more than the mechs (and i was a loooongtime mech lover) but i was able to tune them for even more.

    you won't save a ton, but you will save a little. check this out.


    Weight Disparity: Juicy 7s vs BB7's/Paul's

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...43#post1349243
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrublover
    yes, but.....unless you already have all the ti/alu hardware, and lighter levers, you may be better off to sell the mech stuff and just get some juicys. for the money you'd spend on the bolts vs. the cost of the hydros minus the cost from selling the mechs, that is what i'd reccomend.

    i just swapped two bikes from bb7/paul love lever/full housing setup to a jucy-5 setup.

    the old mech stuff was using ti and alu hardware, and i still dropped a little more weight by going with the juicy5s.

    not only do i love the hydros more than the mechs (and i was a loooongtime mech lover) but i was able to tune them for even more.

    you won't save a ton, but you will save a little. check this out.


    Weight Disparity: Juicy 7s vs BB7's/Paul's

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...43#post1349243
    Yes, I keep forgetting the simple fact that hydro weight's include the line's. My front and rear inner/outer cable's add 185 grams to the rest of the Avid's weight.

    Just for kicks I decided to start on one caliper last night. So far i've managed to massage 10 grams out of the caliper. I'm sure there's another whopping (!!!) 5 grams in there, maybe 8. I'll post picks when i'm done. Hey, it's FREE and I have some time to kill. Interestingly enough, the newer Type N caliper's are already 10 grams per caliper lighter the the older Type F.

    I can't help but side up with the "negativity" towards hydro's in you second link (sorry, but i'm waiting for a deal, like you). Don't get me wrong - yes, there are a lot of people happy with their hydro's - clearly understood!!! I'm just not quite ready for THAT step..... yet. Heck, I have another frame and fork on their way and that combo might just be a v-brake set-up.

    Anyways, THANKS for the link's! Very imformative.
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    so your at about 500 grams now right? either front or back..

    your aiming for 400 grams right?

    al rotors would yield 60 grams less for each side, but pricey

    have you sampled al fastners yet?

    keep it up dude.

    light mech's would be a dream.
    no machiavellian here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lowmach
    so your at about 500 grams now right? either front or back..

    your aiming for 400 grams right?

    al rotors would yield 60 grams less for each side, but pricey

    have you sampled al fastners yet?

    keep it up dude.

    light mech's would be a dream.
    No, the entire box of contents of one of Avid's BBDB7 (with 160mm rotor) is 355 grams - give or take for the different mounting brackets. That's caliper, pads, brackets, rotor and all hardware.

    I'd like to try Stan's aluminum rotor's and appropriate pads but haven't started researching anything about them (wondering about fade).

    Bolts - yup, every bolt in Ti would roughly drop about 35 grams.

    The real key, from what i'm seeing so far (if you wanna compare to hydro's), are the cable's and lever's. Nokon and Extralite.... mmmmmmmm, goooooood. Oooouuuch, expensive! BAH! It's only money and it IS Christmas, right?

    Anyways, right now i'm just concentrating on shaving the crap outta the caliper. I'll see where that get's me first. If I wanna continue being a glutton for punishment then so bo it.
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  12. #12
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    if it comes down to JUST money, the Carbon Juicy 7's are super sweet, but not cheap.

    if you want to save more weight than Ti hardware, put some Al hardware in there. just be carefull not to overtighten the fasteners

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    Quote Originally Posted by mechmann_mtb
    if it comes down to JUST money, the Carbon Juicy 7's are super sweet, but not cheap.

    if you want to save more weight than Ti hardware, put some Al hardware in there. just be carefull not to overtighten the fasteners
    i think the Juicy 5's are lighter then the Juicy 7 carbons...

    If your really trying to save weight and willing to go Hydro, you should probably avoid the juicy's, Something like Martas or Mono mini's (but you already knew that ).

    Good luck on getting your Avids to a respectable weight, looking foward to a detailed description


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    andrewTO- I was referring to one set of bb7 caliper/rotor/cable/housing/lever == 400 grams being a light goal.

    yeah when you get a chance, lets see some photos of the shaven caliper.

    so nokon is the lightest brake cable/housing? yikes their pricey. what about just using some black plastic tubing from home depot?

    -cheers
    no machiavellian here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bike_freak
    i think the Juicy 5's are lighter then the Juicy 7 carbons...

    If your really trying to save weight and willing to go Hydro, you should probably avoid the juicy's, Something like Martas or Mono mini's (but you already knew that ).

    Good luck on getting your Avids to a respectable weight, looking foward to a detailed description
    Yes, good luck indeed. I was hoping to score some time on the Bridgeport today, but it was set-up for another job. Tomorrow is clean-up and that's it for this year. Looks like they're stuck with a mere 10 gram weight savings for now. At least I can replace the two bolt's with titanium one's, so that'll help. Oh, they're M5 x 25mm, if anyone wants to know. These are the two bolts that pass through the caliper itself, holding the two halves together. The steel one's weight 10 grams for the pair.

    I'll post some pics later tonight. They look HORRIBLE as they're not finished, so be prepared for nothing pretty.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowmach
    andrewTO- I was referring to one set of bb7 caliper/rotor/cable/housing/lever == 400 grams being a light goal.

    yeah when you get a chance, lets see some photos of the shaven caliper.

    so nokon is the lightest brake cable/housing? yikes their pricey. what about just using some black plastic tubing from home depot?

    -cheers
    Ah yes, I see now. Apologies on my mis-interpretation. 400 grams would indeed be quite light for the set-up. Well, you've given me something to dream about, at the very least.

    I can't say 100% that Nokon's are indeed THE lightest. It appears that way with all the scattered info out there. Expensive? Oh heck yeah. I'd say they're on the same level as Stan's rotor's. Go figure, huh?

    I've toyed with alternatives to cable housing, but the whole "teflon coated inside" area is something I have no idea to get around. Yes, there never used to be such a thing, but i'd sooner pay the extra $$$ and suffer the extra weight for the convenience and performance. It's just too much of a no-brainer, IMHO.

    Anyways, the "exercise in futility" continue's.


    On a WW-related note; just got my MegaAir in! Hmmmm, sub-3-pound fork. Arrhgrhgrhrghrgrghrg. Gotta go play.
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  17. #17
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    Pics. Again, work in progress.
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    Pics. Again, work in progress. Part 2.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewTO
    Pics. Again, work in progress. Part 2.
    wow all that for 10g...

    I am a weight weenies myselft but sometimes i don't understand other, 20g of static weight are not even gonna make you 1sec faster on a 3h race...

    Just cut your hair before the race

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megaclocker
    wow all that for 10g...

    I am a weight weenies myselft but sometimes i don't understand other, 20g of static weight are not even gonna make you 1sec faster on a 3h race...

    Just cut your hair before the race
    See, you only thought you were a weight weenie! Yur a piker in the weenie world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megaclocker
    wow all that for 10g...

    I am a weight weenies myselft but sometimes i don't understand other, 20g of static weight are not even gonna make you 1sec faster on a 3h race...

    Just cut your hair before the race
    20g of static weight may not save you 1 second- but 20+20+20+20+20 is 100g, and that may well save you a second or two. Over the coruse of a race that could be a good 20 or more seconds... All the parts add up- so really everything should and will count.

    Just for the record- Cutting your hair saves about 4g, which aint much.
    Cul is a regretted trademark of the CulBaire Co'op Pty Ltd, as are his random ramblings and associated bull****.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megaclocker
    wow all that for 10g...

    I am a weight weenies myselft but sometimes i don't understand other, 20g of static weight are not even gonna make you 1sec faster on a 3h race...

    Just cut your hair before the race
    sometimes it's just fun to tinker with things.....

    what are you using to shave that stuff off ? i hope youu buff that thing up after your done to get a nice polished look
    College boy

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    Quote Originally Posted by b12yan88
    sometimes it's just fun to tinker with things.....

    what are you using to shave that stuff off ? i hope youu buff that thing up after your done to get a nice polished look
    Yeah, its nice to save weight but those brake are realy ugly now, sanded and correctly polished they would look nice...

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    Quote Originally Posted by b12yan88
    sometimes it's just fun to tinker with things.....

    what are you using to shave that stuff off ? i hope youu buff that thing up after your done to get a nice polished look
    Actually, i've been using a couple of 8" file's - a rat-tail and a half-round. I would have loved to use one of the Bridge Port milling machine's at work on my own time, but making a fixture wasn't allowed with the timing (Christmas - week off). I'd certainly be able to chop off more with better result's then. Maybe in January.

    I mentioned this being an exercise in futility and there's some sad truth behind this;

    First, these are Avid's early Type F caliper's. The newer Type N caliper's already have 10 grams less weight to them because Avid changed the casting mold to remove some weight. (thanks!)

    Second, the majority of weight to be saved would be found in the gut's of the caliper. Im not about to go out and order titanium and custom machine all that stuff - that's where I draw the line. Also, swapping the two bolt's that hold the two halves together should be worth about 4-5 grams per caliper, so that'll help.

    Anyways, i'm merely trying to see what's possible. I haven't seen anyone else do this and i'm curious to know result's. Who know's maybe what I learn here can be transferred into making my own brake and then ruling the disc brake world!!!!!!!!!!!

    /pipe dream

    Okay, so basically i'm just seeing what's possible and showing people what result's might be expected with changing/shaving what.

    As CulBaire put it - 20+20+20.... it adds up. This takes work and i'm not afraid to do so.

    Finished piece WILL be polished. What, i'm going to add 2 grams of paint after all this work?!?!?!?!

    Oaky, enough blabbing. There's food to eat and drink's to drink.

    MERRY CHRISTMAS to all my fellow WW's!
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    Okay, things are back to "normal" now. Sorry for the wait and thanks for the patience.

    Progress so far; today I decided to simply make a fixture for this project. As far as I can tell nobody else out there has tried this and I figured if i'm doing the work I might as well utilize the resources I do have available. I got some milling done today (see pics) and i'm happy with the results so far. Still more material to be removed, followed my final shaping (hand filing) then polishing.

    Also, note in these pics that the steel bolts (that hold the two caliper halves together) have been replaced with titanium - saved a whopping 5 grams per caliper!

    Weight savings so far;
    stock caliper, no pads, no cable bolt - 149 grams
    with milling completed so far - 133 grams
    with titanium bolts - 128 grams

    The ti bolts have tapered heads and i've noticed 2 things; the head on the bolt "under" the brake arm might hit the cable bolt. I will resolve this by adding clearance between the two (or another trick, gotta wait and see). Also, the 2 ti bolts are 25 mm long - i'll be shorteneing those a little bit, maybe to 20 mm long.

    At this point I feel that I can get this caliper at/under 120 grams without worry.

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    I like it. I'm going to tune the BB7s on my single speed just for grins. I've got a mill anyway

    Keep us posted

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    Someone should send this link to Avid. Avid pretends not to have an ear but when every1 complained about all their weight lies, I did notice they have become much closer and often even under their advertised weight. Just maybe they Will start making lightweight mech brakes if they know the market is big enough. Heck, what would it cost them to run them through a CNC, maybe $10 each and then add $30 to the price and bingo takin a bigger market share which is key these days. Just my 2 cents or $2 with inflation adjustment.

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    I'm amazed how many people run the BB7s, weight notwithstanding. If they were even lighter I would run them on every bike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fisty
    Someone should send this link to Avid. Avid pretends not to have an ear but when every1 complained about all their weight lies, I did notice they have become much closer and often even under their advertised weight. Just maybe they Will start making lightweight mech brakes if they know the market is big enough. Heck, what would it cost them to run them through a CNC, maybe $10 each and then add $30 to the price and bingo takin a bigger market share which is key these days. Just my 2 cents or $2 with inflation adjustment.
    Actually Fisty, Avid hasn't been completely ignorant with the weight of their mech's. They DID make the Type N caliper's 10 grams lighter (each) than the first generation Type F. No, it's not a lot, but it at least shows they're weening the weight out in a manner appriopriate for a big company.... slowly. I'm not trying to defend them too strongly, though. A big company like them should have no problem making a lighter weight caliper be taking out more material here and there, testing it and releasing it when they see it's still safe. Keep in mind that Avid has one of the largest pads in the industry (geee, is that why they're so powerful???) and they'd have to change pad style's to really get somewhere. A change like this wouldn't even need further CNC machinging, only a change of the die/mold used when the caliper halves are formed. It would be MUCH cheaper that way.

    Okay everyone, you read it here first - when price's go through the roof for a XC-specific lightweight mech brake from Avid we all get to blame Fisty!!!! J/K buddy!

    I think that if someone wanted a REALLY lightweight design with disc caliper's they need to change the design to something incredibly simple with slightly smaller pads.


    One related Q - has anyone weighed a caliper ONLY for a J5/J7? PATIA! Just for comparison's sake. This is info I need for yet more research. I got a plan!


    Pivvay - i'd LOVE to see your tuning of this brake! Please do be kind enough to share with us all. Tip - don't go nuts on the hump of the caliper where the stud is for the pad retainer. That stud need to remain in place, otherwise the pads will never stay put.
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    [QUOTE=AndrewTO]Actually Fisty, Avid hasn't been completely ignorant with the weight of their mech's. They DID make the Type N caliper's 10 grams lighter (each) than the first generation Type F. No, it's not a lot, but it at least shows they're weening the weight out in a manner appriopriate for a big company.... slowly.

    Reminds me of intel and amd. Yearly upgrade and wackin ya a little at a time.

  31. #31
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    not bb7, but some juicy-5 tuning or whaqtever you want to call it. not a ton saved, but didn't really cost much, and didn't have to shave down the caliper body.....

    caliper body bolts swapped to alu. mount bolts ti. cps bolts all ti up front, one ti/one alu in back. bar clamp bolt spacing Dremelled out so as to fit an alu aftermarket bolt.

    got two bikes with this setup, doing fine so far.

    not sure how much weight the cat adds. i think he's a bit over 9 pounds.
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    Im thinkin Cat? whatt?? this guys losin it, then I went back and found Waldo in mtb camo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fisty
    Im thinkin Cat? whatt?? this guys losin it, then I went back and found Waldo in mtb camo.
    HAHAHAA! You and me both. "Where the **** is the cat?!?!??!!" BOING! Good one Scrub!


    Update; got it down to 123 grams after work tonight. Looks like when all is said and done it'll be 30 grams lighter than stock, including the 2 ti bolts. I'll post pics in a bit. Gotta rest - back is killing me! I forgot how much I hate working on tat machine - it needs a riser for 6'4" users!!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrublover
    not bb7, but some juicy-5 tuning or whaqtever you want to call it. not a ton saved, but didn't really cost much, and didn't have to shave down the caliper body.....

    caliper body bolts swapped to alu. mount bolts ti. cps bolts all ti up front, one ti/one alu in back. bar clamp bolt spacing Dremelled out so as to fit an alu aftermarket bolt.

    got two bikes with this setup, doing fine so far.

    not sure how much weight the cat adds. i think he's a bit over 9 pounds.
    So what did you get the weight to ?
    College boy

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    scrublover, where did u get your bolts from. I'm not too bike saavy so could you tell me the size and types of the bolts you replaced as well??? Thanks!

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    Okay, more pics. If anything it's gotten uglier, but it's now at the point which it will turn into a beautiful swan (pain killers talking ).

    Yes, I really took a lot of material off the back. Yes, I put a hole in the cable stop. Yes, it'll still work (don't ask me how long though should be okay). No, i'm not done yet. Don't know how much more will get done this week, but this project is a priority, so i'm doing my best. For the cause, right?!?!?!?!

    As mentioned a few posts above, 123 grams (that's including the adjusters which aren't in the pics). Target is 119 or less. No sweat.
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    Looks cool but not pretty! Hey Avid, help us out and get a light mech. I want me some of those Alu bolts!

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    Quote Originally Posted by pedaler845
    Looks cool but not pretty! Hey Avid, help us out and get a light mech. I want me some of those Alu bolts!
    Yeah, it is one ugly pos, ain't it? Final shaping has begun which will be followed with polishing. I might have to spray paint it before I polish it so it'll come out in pics - I don't see it working with the flash on.


    Question - which company has the lightest mechanical disc brake caliper??? I really need to know this and I don't have the $$$ to buy one of everything just to check. Preferably without pads or hardware, as pics show above, for a fair weight comparison. If anyone doesn't mind checking what they've got? PATIA!
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  39. #39
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    avid should do a black ops 'avid ultimate' mech disc brake.

    like their V brake.

    all nice CNCed and ano black. nice ti hardware.
    Only boring people get bored.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by jh_on_the_cape
    avid should do a black ops 'avid ultimate' mech disc brake.

    like their V brake.

    all nice CNCed and ano black. nice ti hardware.

    SHHHH! Bite thy tongue. I don't know if I'll have a budget for that. Right now I can convince myself that there are not a lighter set of mechanicals that work as good. If a Black Ops version appeared, I don't have that excuse anymore.

    Plus the Black would look really nice on the Ventana too....

    Think it would be a short run too... much like the Avid Arch Supremes?

    JmZ
    JmZ

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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by JmZ
    SHHHH! Bite thy tongue. I don't know if I'll have a budget for that. Right now I can convince myself that there are not a lighter set of mechanicals that work as good. If a Black Ops version appeared, I don't have that excuse anymore.

    Plus the Black would look really nice on the Ventana too....

    Think it would be a short run too... much like the Avid Arch Supremes?

    JmZ
    Yeah, really!

    Jh_on_the_cape - stop giving them ideas!!!!!! That Ultimate stuff is already expensive enough! Okay okay, i'm just kidding, it would be nice if Avid DID do something about this. I think your Ultimate/Black Ops idea is actually really cool - mix the old and new into one package. Funny, but I don't see them getting too much lighter with either ti internals (oh, sorry, another expensive idea!) and/or dropping features (which is what make's them great).


    Update - uhhh, no update right now. They look a little smoother than before. Still finishing it up whilst working on other projects.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jh_on_the_cape
    avid should do a black ops 'avid ultimate' mech disc brake.

    like their V brake.

    all nice CNCed and ano black. nice ti hardware.
    You read my mind. I've been thinking about that for weeks.
    If you want a piece of black ops hardware that anyone can afford, get the SAAGO stem from this guy on Ebay - not the lightest stem around but the engineering is amazing and none of your friends have one. LBS mechanics will deny that they exist. I've won a few bets - just walk in and ask for an Avid brand stem.



    Ebay auction

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    More pics because I can only post 5 at a time.
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    Sorry for the wait. I'll provide my usual excuse of being tied up with other projects.

    More pics. I'll be testing this to see how they work (read: if they break or not).
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    Last edited by AndrewTO; 03-02-2006 at 08:20 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jh_on_the_cape
    avid should do a black ops 'avid ultimate' mech disc brake.

    like their V brake.

    all nice CNCed and ano black. nice ti hardware.
    Ask and you shall receive.

    Target weight was 119, to save 30 grams per caliper (from the earlier version Type F caliper). Final weight before re-assembly = 118 grams, or a saving of 31 grams.
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    Last edited by AndrewTO; 03-02-2006 at 07:53 PM. Reason: Made a 10 gram mistake - SORRY!
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    Last picture. It's the same caliper on each end as I only modified one. I'll see how it does on either end. I only posted pics in case anyone was curious as to how it would look on either end.

    I'll post through the year with an update on if it survives.

    If anyone else wants to try this you have the info you need in this thread. DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK!
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    Final weights??

    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewTO
    Last picture. It's the same caliper on each end as I only modified one. I'll see how it does on either end. I only posted pics in case anyone was curious as to how it would look on either end.

    I'll post through the year with an update on if it survives.

    If anyone else wants to try this you have the info you need in this thread. DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK!
    Can you list the before vs. after weights

    this is from the avid web page for BB7

    Weight
    361 grams (front)
    367 grams (rear)

    do you know the caliper weight of the 2006 BB 7 to compare your final projects weight to ?? Thanks, I run marta SL but like the idea of mechanicals if the total weigh get closer to my Marta's

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    I imagine the castings are heat treated. Hope you didnt grind the hardness out of them! Looks like alot a hours in it.

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    Good Job

    Good Job Andrew, thanks for documenting your project so well. Please give us a long and short term performance review after you use them.
    Mark


    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewTO
    Last picture. It's the same caliper on each end as I only modified one. I'll see how it does on either end. I only posted pics in case anyone was curious as to how it would look on either end.

    I'll post through the year with an update on if it survives.

    If anyone else wants to try this you have the info you need in this thread. DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK!

  50. #50
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    Just got my hands on some hope rotors. Thanks to Larry.

    Avid Disc 160mm - 118g
    Hope Disc (2 piece) 160mm - 88g

    30g savings on one rotor alone. Nifty. Not a huge cost increase either. Sorry at my 200 pound arse... I'm just not sure Stan's rotors would be right for me.

    Hope 140mm (1 piece) - 88g
    Hope 140mm (2 piece) - 74g
    Formula 140mm (1 piece) - 85g

    So with swapping from the 160/160 Avid Disc rotors to 160/140 hope rotors I saved 74g or the same weight as another rotor! No Ti Hardware or bolt tuning yet.

    Swapping the Ti would bring down the weight another 35g from your post. That's either 109g or 144g (depending if that's for the bike or for just one brake) for both sides. Brings down the weight for a bike to 566 or so.

    AndrewTO's shaving would bring it down to 486g for a full bike kit. That's a <b><i>bit</b></i> better than the 710g that's stock.

    I'm not up with my hydros to know how that would compare. Sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewTO
    No, the entire box of contents of one of Avid's BBDB7 (with 160mm rotor) is 355 grams - give or take for the different mounting brackets. That's caliper, pads, brackets, rotor and all hardware.

    I'd like to try Stan's aluminum rotor's and appropriate pads but haven't started researching anything about them (wondering about fade).

    Bolts - yup, every bolt in Ti would roughly drop about 35 grams.

    The real key, from what i'm seeing so far (if you wanna compare to hydro's), are the cable's and lever's. Nokon and Extralite.... mmmmmmmm, goooooood. Oooouuuch, expensive! BAH! It's only money and it IS Christmas, right?

    Anyways, right now i'm just concentrating on shaving the crap outta the caliper. I'll see where that get's me first. If I wanna continue being a glutton for punishment then so bo it.
    JmZ

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