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Thread: Tuned BB7's?

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    Tuned BB7's?

    I know, I know! Why would any self-respecting WW be using brake's like this?

    I searched and came up with nothing. What I seek is anyone out there that has tuned their BB7's, either ti/al bolt's and/or shaving/milling/drilling.

    Anyone out there? Results? I know that there were a few guy's running ti/al bolt's, but the other tuning is what i'm really after.

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  2. #2
    mechmann_mtb
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    i have actually been considering doing some tuning on the Juicy7's on my bike. after looking at the new Juicy7 Carbons, they really took a lot of meat out of the clamp area.

  3. #3
    discombobulated SuperModerator
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    'tuned' is that some WW term? or is it 'turned' as in reduce the rotor thickness...?
    CDT

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    This has been covered in the past, try searching under Avid Mechanicals

    Light weight cables and housing, light brake levers, some nice rotors like the new 2 peice Hopes and a bunch of Alu/Ti bolts is pretty much all the can be done. I'm sure there was ways of shaving the calipers down if you REALLY want to save weight...


  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by CdaleTony
    'tuned' is that some WW term? or is it 'turned' as in reduce the rotor thickness...?
    CDT
    Tuned, not turned. Tuning of parts referrs to swapping steel bolts with ti/aluminum and some shaving here and there. Shaving would be material removal (ie filing, dremeling, milling, drilling etc).
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    Quote Originally Posted by bike_freak
    This has been covered in the past, try searching under Avid Mechanicals

    Light weight cables and housing, light brake levers, some nice rotors like the new 2 peice Hopes and a bunch of Alu/Ti bolts is pretty much all the can be done. I'm sure there was ways of shaving the calipers down if you REALLY want to save weight...
    I did search. C'mon man, I ain't THAT new anymore. Avid gave me 25 results with nothing, avid mechanical gave me 20 results with nothing.

    I'm looking for any info about if anyone out there HAS done any shaving and what their results were. I guess i'll just attack the old pair over the holiday's.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewTO
    I did search. C'mon man, I ain't THAT new anymore. Avid gave me 25 results with nothing, avid mechanical gave me 20 results with nothing.

    I'm looking for any info about if anyone out there HAS done any shaving and what their results were. I guess i'll just attack the old pair over the holiday's.
    I remember this topic has been covered in the past, but sadly, i also can't find it

    One other thing that would save some weight is using Post mount forks and Frame


  8. #8
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    yes, but.....unless you already have all the ti/alu hardware, and lighter levers, you may be better off to sell the mech stuff and just get some juicys. for the money you'd spend on the bolts vs. the cost of the hydros minus the cost from selling the mechs, that is what i'd reccomend.

    i just swapped two bikes from bb7/paul love lever/full housing setup to a jucy-5 setup.

    the old mech stuff was using ti and alu hardware, and i still dropped a little more weight by going with the juicy5s.

    not only do i love the hydros more than the mechs (and i was a loooongtime mech lover) but i was able to tune them for even more.

    you won't save a ton, but you will save a little. check this out.


    Weight Disparity: Juicy 7s vs BB7's/Paul's

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...43#post1349243
    Florence Nightingale's Stormtrooper

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    Quote Originally Posted by scrublover
    yes, but.....unless you already have all the ti/alu hardware, and lighter levers, you may be better off to sell the mech stuff and just get some juicys. for the money you'd spend on the bolts vs. the cost of the hydros minus the cost from selling the mechs, that is what i'd reccomend.

    i just swapped two bikes from bb7/paul love lever/full housing setup to a jucy-5 setup.

    the old mech stuff was using ti and alu hardware, and i still dropped a little more weight by going with the juicy5s.

    not only do i love the hydros more than the mechs (and i was a loooongtime mech lover) but i was able to tune them for even more.

    you won't save a ton, but you will save a little. check this out.


    Weight Disparity: Juicy 7s vs BB7's/Paul's

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...43#post1349243
    Yes, I keep forgetting the simple fact that hydro weight's include the line's. My front and rear inner/outer cable's add 185 grams to the rest of the Avid's weight.

    Just for kicks I decided to start on one caliper last night. So far i've managed to massage 10 grams out of the caliper. I'm sure there's another whopping (!!!) 5 grams in there, maybe 8. I'll post picks when i'm done. Hey, it's FREE and I have some time to kill. Interestingly enough, the newer Type N caliper's are already 10 grams per caliper lighter the the older Type F.

    I can't help but side up with the "negativity" towards hydro's in you second link (sorry, but i'm waiting for a deal, like you). Don't get me wrong - yes, there are a lot of people happy with their hydro's - clearly understood!!! I'm just not quite ready for THAT step..... yet. Heck, I have another frame and fork on their way and that combo might just be a v-brake set-up.

    Anyways, THANKS for the link's! Very imformative.
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    so your at about 500 grams now right? either front or back..

    your aiming for 400 grams right?

    al rotors would yield 60 grams less for each side, but pricey

    have you sampled al fastners yet?

    keep it up dude.

    light mech's would be a dream.
    no machiavellian here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lowmach
    so your at about 500 grams now right? either front or back..

    your aiming for 400 grams right?

    al rotors would yield 60 grams less for each side, but pricey

    have you sampled al fastners yet?

    keep it up dude.

    light mech's would be a dream.
    No, the entire box of contents of one of Avid's BBDB7 (with 160mm rotor) is 355 grams - give or take for the different mounting brackets. That's caliper, pads, brackets, rotor and all hardware.

    I'd like to try Stan's aluminum rotor's and appropriate pads but haven't started researching anything about them (wondering about fade).

    Bolts - yup, every bolt in Ti would roughly drop about 35 grams.

    The real key, from what i'm seeing so far (if you wanna compare to hydro's), are the cable's and lever's. Nokon and Extralite.... mmmmmmmm, goooooood. Oooouuuch, expensive! BAH! It's only money and it IS Christmas, right?

    Anyways, right now i'm just concentrating on shaving the crap outta the caliper. I'll see where that get's me first. If I wanna continue being a glutton for punishment then so bo it.
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  12. #12
    mechmann_mtb
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    if it comes down to JUST money, the Carbon Juicy 7's are super sweet, but not cheap.

    if you want to save more weight than Ti hardware, put some Al hardware in there. just be carefull not to overtighten the fasteners

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    Quote Originally Posted by mechmann_mtb
    if it comes down to JUST money, the Carbon Juicy 7's are super sweet, but not cheap.

    if you want to save more weight than Ti hardware, put some Al hardware in there. just be carefull not to overtighten the fasteners
    i think the Juicy 5's are lighter then the Juicy 7 carbons...

    If your really trying to save weight and willing to go Hydro, you should probably avoid the juicy's, Something like Martas or Mono mini's (but you already knew that ).

    Good luck on getting your Avids to a respectable weight, looking foward to a detailed description


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    andrewTO- I was referring to one set of bb7 caliper/rotor/cable/housing/lever == 400 grams being a light goal.

    yeah when you get a chance, lets see some photos of the shaven caliper.

    so nokon is the lightest brake cable/housing? yikes their pricey. what about just using some black plastic tubing from home depot?

    -cheers
    no machiavellian here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bike_freak
    i think the Juicy 5's are lighter then the Juicy 7 carbons...

    If your really trying to save weight and willing to go Hydro, you should probably avoid the juicy's, Something like Martas or Mono mini's (but you already knew that ).

    Good luck on getting your Avids to a respectable weight, looking foward to a detailed description
    Yes, good luck indeed. I was hoping to score some time on the Bridgeport today, but it was set-up for another job. Tomorrow is clean-up and that's it for this year. Looks like they're stuck with a mere 10 gram weight savings for now. At least I can replace the two bolt's with titanium one's, so that'll help. Oh, they're M5 x 25mm, if anyone wants to know. These are the two bolts that pass through the caliper itself, holding the two halves together. The steel one's weight 10 grams for the pair.

    I'll post some pics later tonight. They look HORRIBLE as they're not finished, so be prepared for nothing pretty.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowmach
    andrewTO- I was referring to one set of bb7 caliper/rotor/cable/housing/lever == 400 grams being a light goal.

    yeah when you get a chance, lets see some photos of the shaven caliper.

    so nokon is the lightest brake cable/housing? yikes their pricey. what about just using some black plastic tubing from home depot?

    -cheers
    Ah yes, I see now. Apologies on my mis-interpretation. 400 grams would indeed be quite light for the set-up. Well, you've given me something to dream about, at the very least.

    I can't say 100% that Nokon's are indeed THE lightest. It appears that way with all the scattered info out there. Expensive? Oh heck yeah. I'd say they're on the same level as Stan's rotor's. Go figure, huh?

    I've toyed with alternatives to cable housing, but the whole "teflon coated inside" area is something I have no idea to get around. Yes, there never used to be such a thing, but i'd sooner pay the extra $$$ and suffer the extra weight for the convenience and performance. It's just too much of a no-brainer, IMHO.

    Anyways, the "exercise in futility" continue's.


    On a WW-related note; just got my MegaAir in! Hmmmm, sub-3-pound fork. Arrhgrhgrhrghrgrghrg. Gotta go play.
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  17. #17
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    Pics. Again, work in progress.
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    Pics. Again, work in progress. Part 2.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewTO
    Pics. Again, work in progress. Part 2.
    wow all that for 10g...

    I am a weight weenies myselft but sometimes i don't understand other, 20g of static weight are not even gonna make you 1sec faster on a 3h race...

    Just cut your hair before the race

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megaclocker
    wow all that for 10g...

    I am a weight weenies myselft but sometimes i don't understand other, 20g of static weight are not even gonna make you 1sec faster on a 3h race...

    Just cut your hair before the race
    See, you only thought you were a weight weenie! Yur a piker in the weenie world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megaclocker
    wow all that for 10g...

    I am a weight weenies myselft but sometimes i don't understand other, 20g of static weight are not even gonna make you 1sec faster on a 3h race...

    Just cut your hair before the race
    20g of static weight may not save you 1 second- but 20+20+20+20+20 is 100g, and that may well save you a second or two. Over the coruse of a race that could be a good 20 or more seconds... All the parts add up- so really everything should and will count.

    Just for the record- Cutting your hair saves about 4g, which aint much.
    Cul is a regretted trademark of the CulBaire Co'op Pty Ltd, as are his random ramblings and associated bullshit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megaclocker
    wow all that for 10g...

    I am a weight weenies myselft but sometimes i don't understand other, 20g of static weight are not even gonna make you 1sec faster on a 3h race...

    Just cut your hair before the race
    sometimes it's just fun to tinker with things.....

    what are you using to shave that stuff off ? i hope youu buff that thing up after your done to get a nice polished look
    College boy

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    Quote Originally Posted by b12yan88
    sometimes it's just fun to tinker with things.....

    what are you using to shave that stuff off ? i hope youu buff that thing up after your done to get a nice polished look
    Yeah, its nice to save weight but those brake are realy ugly now, sanded and correctly polished they would look nice...

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    Quote Originally Posted by b12yan88
    sometimes it's just fun to tinker with things.....

    what are you using to shave that stuff off ? i hope youu buff that thing up after your done to get a nice polished look
    Actually, i've been using a couple of 8" file's - a rat-tail and a half-round. I would have loved to use one of the Bridge Port milling machine's at work on my own time, but making a fixture wasn't allowed with the timing (Christmas - week off). I'd certainly be able to chop off more with better result's then. Maybe in January.

    I mentioned this being an exercise in futility and there's some sad truth behind this;

    First, these are Avid's early Type F caliper's. The newer Type N caliper's already have 10 grams less weight to them because Avid changed the casting mold to remove some weight. (thanks!)

    Second, the majority of weight to be saved would be found in the gut's of the caliper. Im not about to go out and order titanium and custom machine all that stuff - that's where I draw the line. Also, swapping the two bolt's that hold the two halves together should be worth about 4-5 grams per caliper, so that'll help.

    Anyways, i'm merely trying to see what's possible. I haven't seen anyone else do this and i'm curious to know result's. Who know's maybe what I learn here can be transferred into making my own brake and then ruling the disc brake world!!!!!!!!!!!

    /pipe dream

    Okay, so basically i'm just seeing what's possible and showing people what result's might be expected with changing/shaving what.

    As CulBaire put it - 20+20+20.... it adds up. This takes work and i'm not afraid to do so.

    Finished piece WILL be polished. What, i'm going to add 2 grams of paint after all this work?!?!?!?!

    Oaky, enough blabbing. There's food to eat and drink's to drink.

    MERRY CHRISTMAS to all my fellow WW's!
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  25. #25
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    Okay, things are back to "normal" now. Sorry for the wait and thanks for the patience.

    Progress so far; today I decided to simply make a fixture for this project. As far as I can tell nobody else out there has tried this and I figured if i'm doing the work I might as well utilize the resources I do have available. I got some milling done today (see pics) and i'm happy with the results so far. Still more material to be removed, followed my final shaping (hand filing) then polishing.

    Also, note in these pics that the steel bolts (that hold the two caliper halves together) have been replaced with titanium - saved a whopping 5 grams per caliper!

    Weight savings so far;
    stock caliper, no pads, no cable bolt - 149 grams
    with milling completed so far - 133 grams
    with titanium bolts - 128 grams

    The ti bolts have tapered heads and i've noticed 2 things; the head on the bolt "under" the brake arm might hit the cable bolt. I will resolve this by adding clearance between the two (or another trick, gotta wait and see). Also, the 2 ti bolts are 25 mm long - i'll be shorteneing those a little bit, maybe to 20 mm long.

    At this point I feel that I can get this caliper at/under 120 grams without worry.

    Pics;
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