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Tallboy is too heavy- advice on cheapest way to lose weight without losing performanc

6K views 38 replies 19 participants last post by  DavidR1 
#1 · (Edited)
I have a Tallboy that weighs in at 26.66 pounds. I see a ton of them out there in the 23's. This is a durable trail-oriented build, but I'd like to at least break into the 25's, but I don't want to lose any capability (e.g. chainrings, fork adjustability, tires that can't handle sharp rocks, etc.) and, obviously, don't want to replace too many expensive parts that I've just bought. Here's my setup...



Big stuff-
L Tallboy, black, RP23
Easton Haven Carbon wheels
Maxxis Ignitor rear 2.1, Pannaracer Rampage 2.35 front, tubeless
TALAS fork
Full XT dyna-sys drive with 22T 9-spd granny, 11-36 Cassette

Controls-
Niner carbon flat bar
Titec Pluto foam grips
Sette Carbon bar-ends (not pictured)
VDO wireless speedo
Shimano 540 pedals (I'm partial to Shimano)
WTB Laser V SLT Ti saddle
Thomson masterpiece post
XT brakes, 180 mm front 160 rear
Ibis 3D forged stem, 100mm

I also have a strip of clear tape on the downtube, and some electric tape at rub spots. It's the stock non-QR seatpost binder, and a King headset. I'll probably replace the tires with Knobby Nics when they wear out a bit. Other than that, I'm having a hard time seeing where to drop significant weight without spending a fortune. Ideas? I'm kind of stuck at tires and Ti bolts. Can anyone think of a lighter (and preferably softer) seat that fits similarily?

Note: I haven't weighed it since I swapped the Ergon lock-ons to the foamies + bar ends, but that should be abour 45 grams savings. I also had to add some stans recently, which means overall weight is probably close to the same.
 
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#2 ·
The pedals jumped out at me since I am looking to make a change. I currently have Shimano 540s and their claimed weight is around 350g. Ritchey Pro Paradigms are claimed to be 255g. I realize you're partial to Shimano; at least the Ritchey's are similar. I haven't looked at availability, etc on the Ritchey's yet.

Anyway, just a thought. Saves around 3 ounces.
 
#3 ·
Yeah...pedals are tempting. I switched to Shimano after encountering a severe knee injury in my Times. I was in a situation where I just couldn't twist far enough to release and twisted my knee pretty bad. I've also come to really appreciate the toughness of Shimanos. I bash them into rocks all the time and they don't complain, and the bearings go for thousands of miles.

However, if I could have something similar with less weight, I'd be interested.
 
#4 ·
@dam said:
...I don't want to lose any capability (e.g. chainrings, fork adjustability, tires that can't handle sharp rocks, etc.) and, obviously, don't want to replace too many expensive parts that I've just bought.
Nice bike but what is left after "chainrings, fork adjustability, tires that can't handle sharp rocks" & "too many expensive parts that I've just bought"?

After wheels & tires, a 1.5 pound difference isn't going to net much performance, outside of racing (sorry WWs :) ). But to loose that weight on a very nice build like yours will enter compromise.

IMHO, saddle & tires (tubeless ready with some sidewall protection).

P
 
#5 ·
Those tires are hogs. You could drop a pound or so there.

XTR pedals, lighter brakes, and XX cassette. These modifications would put you very close to your goal if not lower.

May want to cut off that extra steerer tube while your at it.
 
#6 ·
You've got a nice build. Most of the changes I can think of require significant tradeoffs. For example, the Laser saddle is not light, but I'm sure there is a reason you chose it.

Consider Xpedo SPD pedals.
There are lighter brake rotors available. Ashima maybe.
 
#7 ·
XTR pedals are maybe 30 grams lighter for a couple hundred bucks. I'd probably be better off with Ti bolts elsewhere on the bike. I read about the Xpedos after I got my 540s. Interesting. The MTBR reviews aren't so good though- I guess they break pretty easy.

With my new stem, there are only a few mm of spacers above it. Any lower and the shifters hit the top tube. I suppose if I invert it I'd have +5deg of rise though, and then could cut off a little. Can I just use a pipe-cutter for that?

I might be interested in rotors. My front rotor bent right away anyway.

Cassette....that's tempting...a lot of weight right there. I'll have to wait for my current one to wear out though. Lot of $$$ for a wear item, too.

What brakes do you recommend? Where can I get a Ti bolt kit for my brakes?

Laser saddle is 240g. Not a tank, but not a flyweight. I choose it because my old bike had one, and trying out new saddles can be some expensive trial and error. This one seems less comfortable than my old one though. Maybe it's a slight redesign, or maybe it just needs to get broken-in.

I suppose replaceing the tires with some knobby-nic snakeskins is still my best bet...shouldn't compromise much besides being expensive for tires. Any other suggestions for some loose, rocky-trail tires?
 
#8 ·
What is your weight? Check out KCNC razor rotors, egg beater ti pedals, and swap out tires to the newer TL ready (not evo) racing ralphs 585gms each. You could also loose another 100gms with Tune dc15 front skewer and lighter rear skewer. None of these parts should change the durability of your bike.
 
#10 ·
@dam said:
I suppose replaceing the tires with some knobby-nic snakeskins is still my best bet...shouldn't compromise much besides being expensive for tires. Any other suggestions for some loose, rocky-trail tires?
You have a very nice build, it'd be tough to lose a lot of weight like others have mentioned.

You can go to a lefty to save a bit of weight, but that's a LOT of $$.

I have two sets of Nobby Nics in 2.2, and they are really nice tires. One set UST and one set with snake skin sidewall.

I'd probably get new tires and stop there :) Maybe new pedals if you are keen to lose all the weight you can. IMO, 26 pounds is a sweet spot for trail bikes.

For XC race bikes, 23 is not bad, but they can't handle nearly as much.
 
#11 ·
Maxxis Ikon (580g) replacing the Rampage (750g) will save you 170g.

XX Cassette (186g) replacing the XT cassette (286g) will save you 100g.

XTR pedals (310g) replacing the M540 pedals (353g) will save you 42g.

Formula R1 brakes (736g approx) replacing XT brakes (880g approx) will save you 144g.

456g = 1lb. So you will be well into the 25's.

The next best way to loose weight would be to find lighter wheels. You could easily get closer to 1500g (over 200g savings!!) without giving up reliability. Of course just about every part on the bike has a part available at a lower weight without giving up much (or any??) reliability. Just ride the bike and replace things as they break or you find you don't like something.
 
#12 ·
DavidR1 said:
The next best way to loose weight would be to find lighter wheels. You could easily get closer to 1500g (over 200g savings!!) without giving up reliability. Of course just about every part on the bike has a part available at a lower weight without giving up much (or any??) reliability. Just ride the bike and replace things as they break or you find you don't like something.
Aren't the Easton Haven carbons pretty light already? Those are sweet wheels, I don't know if I'd replace them ;) Unless if he's willing to sell them to me for cheap. :cool:
 
#13 ·
SpringsRubicon said:
Speaking of changing durability / functionality, what are the issues involved in mixing rotor brands and brake brands? For example, KCNC rotors as recommended above with Elixirs?
I'm running KCNC rotors with my Elixir CRs, no problems at all.

 
#14 ·
Definately cut the unused portion of your steerer tube off and cut your Masterpiece to it's shortest safe legnth. Plus the XT stuff is heavier than XTR and XTR can handle any trail riding you can throw at it. Why the Talas? Seems like extra weight not needed. None of my ideas would make it any less of a "trail bike". I second the Eggbeater pedal idea, but I'd go with the 2ti model. You may not like the "float" that comes with Eggbeaters, though?
 
#15 ·
Free: As others have said, trim as much post and steer tube as you are comfortable with. Ditch the computer.

Not free, but not crazy spendy: A SLR saddle (if you can make it work for your butt) would be ~100gms less and they can be found used for $60-70 if you're willing.

You've got the nice wide range rear cassette - drop to a single ring up front with a simple guide like and MRP 1x or an E.13 (not free, but those guides are fairly cheap, and way lighter than a three front ring shifty bits setup)

(look at it this way - if you're standing more to crank and climb without the granny ring, you'll be sitting less on the lighter/more uncomfortable ass hatchet seat, right?)

Alu bolts for top cap, brake and shifter bar mount clamps. Ti for the seat clamp, seat post, stem bolts, brake calipers and adapters/mounts. those should all be fairly standard M5 or M6 sizes that can be found many places on the web, for not a ton of cash.
 
#16 ·
macming said:
Aren't the Easton Haven carbons pretty light already? Those are sweet wheels, I don't know if I'd replace them ;) Unless if he's willing to sell them to me for cheap. :cool:
Yes, those wheels only weigh 1598g - not bad at all for a 29"er all mountain set.

DavidR1 said:
Maxxis Ikon (580g) replacing the Rampage (750g) will save you 170g.

XX Cassette (186g) replacing the XT cassette (286g) will save you 100g.

XTR pedals (310g) replacing the M540 pedals (353g) will save you 42g.

Formula R1 brakes (736g approx) replacing XT brakes (880g approx) will save you 144g.

456g = 1lb. So you will be well into the 25's.
Good suggestions. Especially the tires. I'm running the IKONS front and rear tubeless with the EXO on my RIP and barreling through rocks with no problems. I'd opt for the Xpedo Ti/Ti spd pedals to save even more weight. They are 210g for a pair and take the weight savings down 556g or 1.22 pounds. I've been running the Xpedo's on several bikes for a few seasons. Nothing has broken and I'm right at the weight limit for the Ti/Ti's (weight limit is 187 pounds). I have broken an Eggbeater cage, though - but CBrothers replaced it under warranty.

But Adam - you're Tallboy looks great as it is. It's not very cost-effective to build a bike with new parts, and then decide to focus on weight. Best to do that from the get go with a spreadsheet before you order any parts.

BB
 
#17 ·
New tires for sure.
Standard RLC fork - the Talas drags weight - or try a DT-Swiss fork.
Ditch the XT brakes and get Formula R1. XX rotors lose weight if you stay with the XT's. You'll like the Formula's better anyway.
XTR pedals.
Try a WTB Silverado SLT saddle. Should work and save the weight.
Ti bolts here and there.
Consider going 1x9 or 10.
That's it.
 
#19 · (Edited)
This is a tuff one!

@dam said:
I have a Tallboy that weighs in at 26.66 pounds. I see a ton of them out there in the 23's. This is a durable trail-oriented build, but I'd like to at least break into the 25's, but I don't want to lose any capability (e.g. chainrings, fork adjustability, tires that can't handle sharp rocks, etc.) and, obviously, don't want to replace too many expensive parts that I've just bought. Here's my setup...



Big stuff-
L Tallboy, black, RP23
Easton Haven Carbon wheels
Maxxis Ignitor rear 2.1, Pannaracer Rampage 2.35 front, tubeless
TALAS fork
Full XT dyna-sys drive with 22T 9-spd granny, 11-36 Cassette

Controls-
Niner carbon flat bar
Titec Pluto foam grips
Sette Carbon bar-ends (not pictured)
VDO wireless speedo
Shimano 540 pedals (I'm partial to Shimano)
WTB Laser V SLT Ti saddle
Thomson masterpiece post
XT brakes, 180 mm front 160 rear
Ibis 3D forged stem, 100mm

I also have a strip of clear tape on the downtube, and some electric tape at rub spots. It's the stock non-QR seatpost binder, and a King headset. I'll probably replace the tires with Knobby Nics when they wear out a bit. Other than that, I'm having a hard time seeing where to drop significant weight without spending a fortune. Ideas? I'm kind of stuck at tires and Ti bolts. Can anyone think of a lighter (and preferably softer) seat that fits similarily?

Note: I haven't weighed it since I swapped the Ergon lock-ons to the foamies + bar ends, but that should be abour 45 grams savings. I also had to add some stans recently, which means overall weight is probably close to the same.
Great build and amazing bike I am sure....there are already some great ideas for getting this down in weight....my top 5 would be:

1) the free stuff, remove big chain ring to 2X10, cut the post (or sell it), tubeless.
2) cheap stuff, new tires (I too like the IKON), use the UST feature of those wheels!
3) Carbon post, better brakes, XX are worth the $, and they come with G3 disks, which dont fit the Havens - hub issue.
4) XT Cassette is crazy heavy 340g, XX 11-36 is 210g.
5) XTR pedals, just because they fit the quality of the build - the 540's dont.
 
#20 · (Edited)
I'm not clear if you are 10 speed or not? You say you have a 9 speed crank with a 10 speed cassette? Assuming you are 10 speed, I'd switch out the cranks for a new set of X0 2x10's and the cassette for the new X0 11-36. You'd loose more than 1/2 a lb right there. Put on some more reasonable tires as there's plenty of durable tires that don't weigh what a Rampage does and you're in the 25's.

I'm up in SLO so we have pretty similar dirt/rocks to what you deal with. Unless people have ridden in our rocks they just don't understand that tires like the Ikon, SB8 and other ultra-light tires just aren't an option unless you want to creep down the hill and replace cut tires every 3rd ride! Come to our Friday night ride and NOBODY is on ultra-light tires; it's just not an area that makes sense to loose weight when you ride this kind of trail. Ardent's are my go-to front tire and are lighter than the Rampage but still have awesome grip. I personally have had good luck with the very light Bontrager Jones XR's (just not in the mud) up front on my SS 29'er that I ride less aggressively. I've been on a Schwalbe on the rear of my Nomad for not even a month and I'm already loosing blocks and am down 50% on the center blocks so I can't recommend their tires considering how rocky it is around here. If I had your bike I'd probably run a combo of Ardent's or Geax Saguaro (depending on which trails you mostly ride) and Maxxis Crossmark rear.


Seats are a pretty personal thing but WTB and Specialized make very comfortable seats in the sub-200g range.
 
#21 ·
@dam, that is a sick build man...Be proud of it and change stuff as you wear it out.

My Tallboy is about the same weight as yours but with a more "all mountain" type build. If you want to loose weight the fastest and least expensive way listen to scrublover. I run mine 1x10 and love it. If I were you I'd sell the XT cranks, pick up a pair of X0's, get a custom spiderless 30 tooth ring from homebrewed components and run it 1x10. The XX rotors come with Ti bolts so you could throw those on. Go tubeless with the Nobby Nic's and throw on a lighter chain/cassette after you wear yours out. That sould get you to 25 lbs.

Have fun with it...The Tallboy is a fun beast.

Cheers,
Andy
 
#22 · (Edited)
Hi guys- a quick update. I went to toronto cyle works and ordered...

8g alu top-cap
Ti bolts for shifters, levers, and stem face
Ti bolts for calipers and rotors
Ashima rotors, 180/160

Cost was about $145, and I lost 115 grams or about 1/4 pound, about half of which was in the rotors, which were only 1/3 of the total cost. Kinda spendy for the bolts at ~$1.75/gm-saved, but I plan on moving those bolts to a new bike when the time comes, so i'll get my $ worth. I'm a little skeptical of the rotors ability to absorb heat and stay true, or last very long. First ride will be tonight.

However, now that it's epic-ride season, much of that weight will come right back in the form of...
*Bottle cage
*maybe a bell
*Seatpost QR (I also ordered a superlight one of those, to try out instead of a heavy-but smooth Salsa I have lying around
*Possibly a skid plate. It's heavy at ~70 grams, but I'm starting to throw up some pretty big rocks, and am surprised I haven't damaged anything or broken a zerk yet.
*ESI Chunky grips. My Titec Plutos are too short and throttle a bit.

Oh well- at least I can add all that stuff without gaining weight now- I'll still be under 27.

Tires are next, of course, but I'm going to put a little more wear on these tires first, and then keep 'em around as spares.

I suppose I'd consider dropping my big ring- not really needed on epic rides when I'm going slow and weighed down with gear
 
#27 ·
At some point you might get 'serious' about dropping weight. Again - here are the areas to save and cut a lot more than Ti bolts and small bits will do:

Maxxis Ikon (580g) replacing the Rampage (750g) will save you 170g.

Maxxis Ikon (580g) replacing the Ignitor (636g) will save you 56g

XX Cassette (186g) replacing the XT cassette (286g) will save you 100g.

Xpedo Ti/Ti pedals (210g) replacing the M540 pedals (353g) will save you 143g.

469g = 1.03 pounds :thumbsup:
 
#23 ·
@dam said:
I suppose I'd consider dropping my big ring- not really needed on epic rides when I'm going slow and weighed down with gear
Big rings sure are fast... on fire road downhills... and nothing else. :)

I haven't used one in years, nor do I miss it.

When I used the big ring, I was going faster than I should be anyways. Crashing at those speeds is $$$.

Speaking of crashing and $$$... those 4 grams(!) saved on the stem faceplate ti bolts introduce a lot of risk - for zero benefit. You will not get to the top of any hill faster because you have ti stem bolts rather than steel.

P
 
#24 ·
Ti is strong, and a 4-bolt stem provides redundancy.

I use my big ring maybe 15-20% of the time except on all-day epic rides. I probably wouldn't miss it that much though.

I almost got the Truvativ world-cup stem, which comes with Ti bolts. I found out the Ibis + seperate Ti bolts was cheaper and lighter.

The $/gram-saved for Ti bolts isn't great, but it's much better than many other suggestions and doesn't really have a performance cost.
 
#25 ·
1-bar said:
I'm running KCNC rotors with my Elixir CRs, no problems at all.

agreed... I just put on Ashima Airotors with my Elixir CRs... much better than the avid rotors, lighter, and better braking... mine are 160 front & rear... 85g each... the KCNCs are lighter still from what I hear
 
#26 ·
as for the pedals, you stated you like Shimano, and that's a personal preference thing... as others have mentioned, XTR, or Ritchey...

but also consider Eggbeaters... I used to have 540's also but now I have a set of Ebbbeater Ti's (the older style, not the new 3 or 11 style), upgraded with ebay Ti spindles (which many on MTBR have used and have positive reviews about)... my pedals are 192g... with Ti springs thrown in, they'd <180g... love em... just as easy to get in and out as the SPDs... the only downside is no tension adjustment, and they need a rebuild about once a year... which is cheap and easy to do...

Ti skewers could also be an option for you... although I see you are QR15 in front, so don't know the skewer options are there... but on my QR9 setup, swapped my Mavic skewers for KCNC ones... 113g down to 42g... 71g savings...
 
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