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  1. #1
    Howell, MI
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    Stan's Olympic Disc users.

    My question is: "What tires are you guy's and or girls using with these rims?"

    Tubeless or not?

    I'm interested in failures as well as success stories.

    Thanks MD

  2. #2
    No. Just No.
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    Olympic disc rims, Schwalbe Racing Ralph 2.25, regular version (not UST), Stan's yellow tape (no rubber strip), 145lb rider, FS XC bike, rough XC trails, typically run 28-32psi.

    Front tire has been stable for almost 8 months now. Just needs air topped up sometimes. No flats.

    Rear tire blew off about a week after mounting, doing about 5mp/h up a fireroad. I ran the rest of the year with a tube in the rear. No biggie. Took me a casual 6-7 minutes to pull the valve core and put in a tube with extra care not to get goop on the disc rotors, instead of the usual couple of minutes for a normal change. I probably wouldn't want to do it during a race though.

    My interpretation is that slight production variances in the bead of even the same make/model of tire can produce very different results, as per my experience above. I will be starting with a new set of same this year before race season, but as with last year I will mount the new tires about 1 month before my first race. If they stay stable (no blowoffs) for the month before first race then I will continue to use them. Any blowoffs and that tire goes to the reject pile. I would never mount up a new "converted" tubeless tire and taek it out for a race or an epic ride unless it proved to be stable for at least a couple of weeks of "test" riding prior.

    Note, I will probably be looking at different types of goop this year (maybe Bontrager Superjuice?) since reports are that some sealants may damage the carcass of certain tires over time. Some of these sealants are purporting to be less volatile in their long term interaction with the inner casings.

  3. #3
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    Kenda Karmas (F&R). Tubeless. Had a little problem getting them to hold air initially(loose air overnight), but fine now. Yellow tape. About 100 miles on them.

  4. #4
    I love Pisgah
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    Karma
    Racing Ralph 2.1, 2.25
    Explorer Pro
    Twister Supersonic

    All seal and do fine after the inital leaks seal up.

    Hard to inflate sometimes since I use just the yeller tape. Yes I have a big compressor. Still a pain sometimes.

    Had one blowoff with a Twister last Spring, but that was right after over inflating it and then forgetting. No worries.

    One valve f'd up upon installation so I made a new one from an old tube. Presto.

  5. #5
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    No problems with the Continental tires?

    What sealant are you using? Homemade or Stans?
    Both my Conti Explorer Pros and Supersonics had the interior rubber degrade using latex and water (I may have had a little windex in there, but do not remember.

    KMan

    Quote Originally Posted by Duckman
    Karma
    Racing Ralph 2.1, 2.25
    Explorer Pro
    Twister Supersonic

    All seal and do fine after the inital leaks seal up.

    Hard to inflate sometimes since I use just the yeller tape. Yes I have a big compressor. Still a pain sometimes.

    Had one blowoff with a Twister last Spring, but that was right after over inflating it and then forgetting. No worries.

    One valve f'd up upon installation so I made a new one from an old tube. Presto.

  6. #6
    Howell, MI
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    Quote Originally Posted by KMan
    What sealant are you using? Homemade or Stans?
    Both my Conti Explorer Pros and Supersonics had the interior rubber degrade using latex and water (I may have had a little windex in there, but do not remember.

    KMan

    I have a set of Explorer Supersonics, and a Twister Supersonic. I thought they would be to weak/ thin to use tubeless.

    I'm really considering Specialized Fast Track's, or even Kenda Karmas. Just a little nervous about lightweight tires without tubes. I use Stans sealant.

  7. #7
    No. Just No.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fsr1
    I have a set of Explorer Supersonics, and a Twister Supersonic. I thought they would be to weak/ thin to use tubeless.

    I'm really considering Specialized Fast Track's, or even Kenda Karmas. Just a little nervous about lightweight tires without tubes. I use Stans sealant.
    I ran a set of Explorer Supersonics with the Eclipse system on Mavic X317 rims for an entire race season a couple of years ago. No flats, no blowoffs. Probably quite dependent on terrain though. The area I lived in at the time was generally pretty buffed, with the usual smattering of rocks and roots, but not so much of the sharp variety. My $0.02 says that if something is going to tear through a sidewall of the tire while running converted tubeless, it's probably going to tear through both a tire and tube anyhow. Either way you'll be needing to patch up the tire with some kind of boot. If it's not a sidewall tear, then the tubeless with sealant is going to be less likely to flat to the point of needing a change, since in many cases it will reseal itself.

  8. #8
    I love Pisgah
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    Stans. I've had Explorer Pros mounted using Stans all winter(same pair from 03 for Gods sake) up front on 2 bikes. Still do for that matter. No problems yet. Maybe its the Windex..

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by fsr1
    I have a set of Explorer Supersonics, and a Twister Supersonic. I thought they would be to weak/ thin to use tubeless.

    I'm really considering Specialized Fast Track's, or even Kenda Karmas. Just a little nervous about lightweight tires without tubes. I use Stans sealant.
    Speciallized tyres generally roll like an ass and are well over claimed weight You'd be much better off with the Karma's...

    I am actually running a Kenda Karma DTC tubeless on the rear which I have been running for over four months with out major issue. I actually just put a new one on there last weekend. I am running a Kenda Blue Groove Lite on the front- also tubeless which looks like it will work great.

    I am running the tyres on the Mavic XM819 rims, with my own Latex mix which seals them up ok. Strongly recomend the Blue Groove front and Karma on the rear.
    Cul is a regretted trademark of the CulBaire Co'op Pty Ltd, as are his random ramblings and associated bullshit.

  10. #10
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    2.1 Kenda Nevegals regular
    Stans yellow tape
    Stans valvestems
    Stans sealant
    185lb rider
    5-spot
    agressive xc

    Have not had a problem on the dozen rides I have had them for, however have had them let go while sitting in storage. Am now trying to suspend the bike in storage to see if that helps.

  11. #11
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    Python's with stans. These have been bulletproof. The original leaks sealed easily, and have never flatted in almost 1 year of use. I did experiment with twister pros. I had serious problems getting them to seal, then when I finally did get them to seal the rear blew off the bead in the back of my truck on the way to the trailhead. Anyone want to buy a set of twister pros with less than 20 miles on them My next experiment will be to use Kenda Kharma DTCs. I hope the rubber holds up as I have heard of some problems with kendas.

  12. #12
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    Kenda Karma, blue groove, short tracker, nevegal lite all seal well and don't roll off the rim using the yellow tape. I really like the olympic rim so far.

  13. #13
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    New question here. Cul -

    Quote Originally Posted by CulBaire
    Speciallized tyres generally roll like an ass and are well over claimed weight You'd be much better off with the Karma's...

    I am actually running a Kenda Karma DTC tubeless on the rear which I have been running for over four months with out major issue. I actually just put a new one on there last weekend. I am running a Kenda Blue Groove Lite on the front- also tubeless which looks like it will work great.

    I am running the tyres on the Mavic XM819 rims, with my own Latex mix which seals them up ok. Strongly recomend the Blue Groove front and Karma on the rear.

    - Have you even tried/weighed any Fast Tracks??? At my LBS we've gone through dozens of them and they have been well UNDER claimed weight for the 2.2 version - 490 - 515 grams. They roll very well, wear well, and handle all conditions very well with the exception of sticky mud which they aren't designed for.
    - I do like your other rec's though. The Blue Groove is a great tire but not really a weight-weenie tire I don't think, and the "Lite" versions are pretty narrow IMO.

  14. #14
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    short tracker

    How do you like the short tracker? I've been very interested in this tire - I like the relatively smooth center section, then knobbies on the sides., but I'm worried it is too narrow (I see they have a 1.9 and a 2.1). Looks like a great rear tire. And what is the weight?

    Overall, I think Kenda and Schwalbe tires are best converted tubeless. They seem to be designed with this in mind. Actually a Kenda sales rep. told me they are designed to run converted since they were having a lot of warranty issues with riders using them that way. Instead of saying you are out of luck if running converted, they just designed the tire to handle it. From experience their standard tires feel most like a true tubeless tire of all the brands I've used and they mount reasonably well and are reliable. Schwalbe's (RR, Fast Fred) and Ritchey (??) are good too, but I occasionally get that wallowing feeling that the sidewall is buckling. Panaracer Fire XC is good too. I don't bother anymore with Nokian (NBX - an unsafe, low quality tire), Continental (Vapor, Explorer), Hutchinson (Python) or Maxxis. I have not tried Michelin but should - their XC tire seems good. Of course these are generalizations, but they are based XC tires which are all familiar to us.

    I research the choice of independant racers who race converted tubeless - look at the photos on cyclingnews.com. I'm actually more interested in what women pro's use because their riding is probably closer to mine than the pro men's.

    Also as far as rolling resistance goes my latest thinking is to pick the tire that rolls the best in the slowest conditions - i.e. sand, loose dirt. The wattage saved here and the less drain on the legs is more significant than trying to save a small amount of wattage saved on hardpack. It is the same reason we train our bodies and tune our bikes for climbing - because that is the biggest wattage output and where the most time can be gained.



    Quote Originally Posted by GspotRider
    Kenda Karma, blue groove, short tracker, nevegal lite all seal well and don't roll off the rim using the yellow tape. I really like the olympic rim so far.
    M

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motivated
    Overall, I think Kenda and Schwalbe tires are best converted tubeless. They seem to be designed with this in mind. Actually a Kenda sales rep. told me they are designed to run converted since they were having a lot of warranty issues with riders using them that way. Instead of saying you are out of luck if running converted, they just designed the tire to handle it.
    That's pretty funny, considering this;

    http://www.kendausa.com/bicycle/new...e_news_174.html

    and this;

    http://www.schwalbetires.com/mtb.php

    Not saying you're correct or incorrect, just that you'd never have the companies admit it, for obvious legal reasons. Kenda would probably have a crap if they knew which one of their reps told you that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Motivated
    I'm actually more interested in what women pro's use because their riding is probably closer to mine than the pro men's.
    Now that's even funnier - mostly because it's probably true for most of us!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motivated
    How do you like the short tracker? I've been very interested in this tire - I like the relatively smooth center section, then knobbies on the sides., but I'm worried it is too narrow (I see they have a 1.9 and a 2.1). Looks like a great rear tire. And what is the weight?

    .
    The short tracker works great as long as there isn't any goopy mud on the course. It is is best to use in dry conditions, but some moisture doesn't bother it much. I have only used it in the rear. I run the 1.9" and it is fairly narrow and low volume. I usually run the karma 2.0 dtc so I am used to high volume/low psi. The st corners really well, and doesn't lose much in grip in the right conditons. In fact it has so much grip, I am thinking of cutting out the center knobs and the rubber stip of that is supposed to help in breaking and accelaration to get it to roll even faster. I got that tip from Decline magazine article on tire mods for dhers. The kenda tire mods were tips from Johnny T. I weigh only 140lbs and have dented my rims using 38psi (I tried to use it on a slick wet rooty course and tried to lower pressure to get more grip). In dry hardpack conditions I have used 45psi and it seems to work good for me at that pressure.

    I like this tire, but it is specialized for those relatively smooth courses that are dry hardpacked. Weight for the 1.9" is about 420grams. No punctures so far. It is pretty narrow, and I would be tempted to try the 2.1"...but the 2.1"is heavier. If you worried about rocks and punctures and are abit heavier than me, perhaps the higher volume 2.1" would be a better idea.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMFT
    - Have you even tried/weighed any Fast Tracks??? At my LBS we've gone through dozens of them and they have been well UNDER claimed weight for the 2.2 version - 490 - 515 grams. They roll very well, wear well, and handle all conditions very well with the exception of sticky mud which they aren't designed for.
    - I do like your other rec's though. The Blue Groove is a great tire but not really a weight-weenie tire I don't think, and the "Lite" versions are pretty narrow IMO.
    I have not tryed the Specialized Fast Track tyres, I have tried other verious Specialzed tyres- and they certainly have good grip but I found they roll too slow. Plusses, they are decent volume and have good grip which is great for a trail tyre. All the ones I weighed where well over claimed weight... Seems "Spesh" may have pulled their finger out.


    Why is the Blue Groove not really weight weenie? Mine come in at 459g! This is the "lite" version and I find it has plenty of volume, similar to that of the Karma DTC in my opinion. I actually got to try them out on a lot of veried terrain at an 8hr yesterday and I found they stuck all day. Everything from damp and stick hardpack to dry dusty and rocky single track, Both the Karma on the rear and the Blue Groove on the front stuck like glue.
    55mm in width is pretty good for a 2.0" racing tyre, certainly a lot better then some other manufactures offer.

    I find the BlueGroove better on the front then the Karma,as others have said it has more bite- well it does. It corners really well while the Karma was kind of sketchy on the front. The pair front and rear is great though.
    Cul is a regretted trademark of the CulBaire Co'op Pty Ltd, as are his random ramblings and associated bullshit.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbdcd
    Kenda Karmas (F&R). Tubeless. Had a little problem getting them to hold air initially(loose air overnight), but fine now. Yellow tape. About 100 miles on them.
    got the exact same set up, but don't use the tubeless karmas, I use the standard. I use just the yellow tape and one and a half scoops stans. I have a floor pump and with some aggro pumping and some sealant spraying out I can get it to seal. takes about 72 hours to fill all the leaks, longer if I don't ride around the block during that time. but then they don't lose air for about six weeks or so (I live in the dry desert where stan's seems to evaporate like crazy!!) I then run 38 pounds and love it!! here's the specs:
    FRONT TIRE:
    rims/hubs/spokes (LEFTY HUB)...............................610
    sealant........................................... ..........................55
    Kenda Karma 2.1............................................... .....458
    Brake Rotor w/ 6 Ti bolts...........................................52
    ________________________________________________
    .................................................. .........................1175 Total

    REAR TIRE:
    rims/hubs/spokes.(American Classic).......................720
    sealant........................................... .........................55
    Kenda Karma 2.1............................................... ....442
    Brake Rotor w/ 6 Ti Bolts (I only weighed the front).....52??
    Skewer............................................ .......................14
    ________________________________________________
    .................................................. ..........................1283
    cheers
    Scott

  19. #19
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    Works for Mary

    Clearly Mary McConneloug races her Kenda's converted. Seems to work well for her. I could not find the Kenda link, but I imagine it is similar to the Schwalbe link. I can't imagine returning a tire under warranty anyway, so those legal disclaimers are pretty silly to me.

    You have to be a very fast expert or even semi-pro to stay ahead of a pro woman. I've raced with Jimena Florit and she just smokes the climbs. The big difference though for selecting tires is men generally weight a lot more.



    Quote Originally Posted by Circlip
    That's pretty funny, considering this;

    http://www.kendausa.com/bicycle/new...e_news_174.html

    and this;

    http://www.schwalbetires.com/mtb.php

    Not saying you're correct or incorrect, just that you'd never have the companies admit it, for obvious legal reasons. Kenda would probably have a crap if they knew which one of their reps told you that.



    Now that's even funnier - mostly because it's probably true for most of us!
    M

  20. #20
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    thanks

    I'd like to see one in person. It is difficult to see how much the transverse bars stick up in the middle from a picture. If I do try one it would be the 2.1. I'd say it is one of 3 tires I'd like to try in the next few months. BTW, I race in SoCal and basically all the races are dry, but we do get a lot of loose, slow dirt.


    Quote Originally Posted by GspotRider
    The short tracker works great as long as there isn't any goopy mud on the course. It is is best to use in dry conditions, but some moisture doesn't bother it much. I have only used it in the rear. I run the 1.9" and it is fairly narrow and low volume. I usually run the karma 2.0 dtc so I am used to high volume/low psi. The st corners really well, and doesn't lose much in grip in the right conditons. In fact it has so much grip, I am thinking of cutting out the center knobs and the rubber stip of that is supposed to help in breaking and accelaration to get it to roll even faster. I got that tip from Decline magazine article on tire mods for dhers. The kenda tire mods were tips from Johnny T. I weigh only 140lbs and have dented my rims using 38psi (I tried to use it on a slick wet rooty course and tried to lower pressure to get more grip). In dry hardpack conditions I have used 45psi and it seems to work good for me at that pressure.

    I like this tire, but it is specialized for those relatively smooth courses that are dry hardpacked. Weight for the 1.9" is about 420grams. No punctures so far. It is pretty narrow, and I would be tempted to try the 2.1"...but the 2.1"is heavier. If you worried about rocks and punctures and are abit heavier than me, perhaps the higher volume 2.1" would be a better idea.
    M

  21. #21
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    I run the spider ust 2.1s with stans sealant. I ran them without and the thin tire casing would leak down after one day. They will inflate with a hand pump.

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