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  1. #1
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    SLR Kit Carbonio Flow

    Anyone using this saddle? Seems really nice and light and it also comes with white which is a plus for me. One thing I'm wondering about are the Carbon rails. Do you have to use a certain post with this or will it work on with a New Ultimate? The rails also seem to be a little bit thicker than the ones on the SLR.

  2. #2
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    Hi there. Guess, this might be helpful, reply #20 respectively. I have scanned & hosted SI's manual. They do have some specific recommendations about the post you'll be using. But I'm still don't want to give up especially after I've ordered an NU post a month back. Still skeptical though no matter how hard I deny. It just won't fit the bill. It's clearly illustrated there. So, this leaves me no choice, but to wait further until I'd be able to get an AX-lightness Apollo... or something similar weight-wise...

    I've just used my Kit Carbonio Flow with my Masterpiece since Feb this year. Its clamp features fit the illustrations - so far no issues or problems whatsoever.
    Quote Originally Posted by jcatienza
    There was no need to scare potential buyers and burn bridges "buddy"
    Tell me now, what's Product testing all bout then?

  3. #3
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    is the saddle comfortable? enough padding?

  4. #4
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    Yes, does fit my a*se. Comfy, I should say so. But a li'l chamois would help a lot especially when doing epic rides...
    Quote Originally Posted by jcatienza
    There was no need to scare potential buyers and burn bridges "buddy"
    Tell me now, what's Product testing all bout then?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onie
    Hi there. Guess, this might be helpful, reply #20 respectively. I have scanned & hosted SI's manual. They do have some specific recommendations about the post you'll be using. But I'm still don't want to give up especially after I've ordered an NU post a month back. Still skeptical though no matter how hard I deny. It just won't fit the bill. It's clearly illustrated there. So, this leaves me no choice, but to wait further until I'd be able to get an AX-lightness Apollo... or something similar weight-wise...

    I've just used my Kit Carbonio Flow with my Masterpiece since Feb this year. Its clamp features fit the illustrations - so far no issues or problems whatsoever.
    So you are saying that it won't work with a NU post?

  6. #6
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    No good Poor Design

    Have you looked a the NU clamp design? It believe it's one of those designs that puts the rails in pure shear and doesn't really "clamp" them, never a good idea. I want to save weight just about as much as the next guy, but I'm not going to buy an inherently poor design in the process. No wonder Selle Italia warns about such designs right in their packaging; I think it's not a question of if but when regarding failure.

    I contacted Nino about the design, shared by Extralite I believe, because I thought I was interpreting the pictures wrong and his only response was basically "they've sold many like this." I really can't imagine their defense for such a design save for the weight savings. If basic logic class taught me anything it's the "common practice" fallacy.

    I will stick with my Masterpiece with a clamp that practically grips the entire length of the rails of my SLR and weighs a pittance more. Peace of mind is worth the tenth of a pound.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeveless
    Have you looked a the NU clamp design? It believe it's one of those designs that puts the rails in pure shear and doesn't really "clamp" them, never a good idea. I want to save weight just about as much as the next guy, but I'm not going to buy an inherently poor design in the process. No wonder Selle Italia warns about such designs right in their packaging; I think it's not a question of if but when regarding failure.

    I contacted Nino about the design, shared by Extralite I believe, because I thought I was interpreting the pictures wrong and his only response was basically "they've sold many like this." I really can't imagine their defense for such a design save for the weight savings. If basic logic class taught me anything it's the "common practice" fallacy.

    I will stick with my Masterpiece with a clamp that practically grips the entire length of the rails of my SLR and weighs a pittance more. Peace of mind is worth the tenth of a pound.
    I did research before purchasing the post and I have not read of one single failure from this clamp design. Nino himself has said that he's used the NU for a few years with out any issues. If you aren't comfortable with it that's fine but I see no issues with it. If it works then it works. Until I hear of frequent clamp failures I can't consider it a bad design.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by drainyoo
    So you are saying that it won't work with a NU post?
    Yes, inferring from the SI's manual alone, AFAIK.
    Quote Originally Posted by jcatienza
    There was no need to scare potential buyers and burn bridges "buddy"
    Tell me now, what's Product testing all bout then?

  9. #9
    Ty
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    Quote Originally Posted by drainyoo
    I did research before purchasing the post and I have not read of one single failure from this clamp design. Nino himself has said that he's used the NU for a few years with out any issues. If you aren't comfortable with it that's fine but I see no issues with it. If it works then it works. Until I hear of frequent clamp failures I can't consider it a bad design.
    Same here NewUltimate + SLR with hollow Titanium rails + big fat ass + lots of miles = no problems (so far)


  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ty
    big fat ass
    Please define.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by drainyoo
    I did research before purchasing the post and I have not read of one single failure from this clamp design. Nino himself has said that he's used the NU for a few years with out any issues. If you aren't comfortable with it that's fine but I see no issues with it. If it works then it works. Until I hear of frequent clamp failures I can't consider it a bad design.
    Obviously it poses some problem or Selle Italia wouldn't warn about the design right on their packaging. They have no reason to do such a thing, considering they don't sell seatposts AFAIK, unless they had some fear of failure. Just because you haven't read of a problem doesn't mean there hasn't been one. How many riders do you think are out there that don't frequent the message boards.

    Fact 1: It does put the rails under pure shear stress.
    Fact 2: Materials under shear stress are more likely to fail.

    I'm glad that it hasn't failed for you, but to use an analogy to supercharging a civic for BlownCivic, if no other engine modifications are made it is more likely to fail with the increased stresses put on it. It might never fail due to the supercharger, but it is more likely, period.

    Finally, I'm not saying anything negative about Nino, but he does have a vested interest in what he reports of the quality of an item he sells. He may not be the most impartial source (though he very well may be a saint in man's clothing, I've never met the guy).

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeveless
    Obviously it poses some problem or Selle Italia wouldn't warn about the design right on their packaging. They have no reason to do such a thing, considering they don't sell seatposts AFAIK, unless they had some fear of failure. Just because you haven't read of a problem doesn't mean there hasn't been one. How many riders do you think are out there that don't frequent the message boards.

    Fact 1: It does put the rails under pure shear stress.
    Fact 2: Materials under shear stress are more likely to fail.

    I'm glad that it hasn't failed for you, but to use an analogy to supercharging a civic for BlownCivic, if no other engine modifications are made it is more likely to fail with the increased stresses put on it. It might never fail due to the supercharger, but it is more likely, period.

    Finally, I'm not saying anything negative about Nino, but he does have a vested interest in what he reports of the quality of an item he sells. He may not be the most impartial source (though he very well may be a saint in man's clothing, I've never met the guy).
    Valid point but here is another way to look at it. Could it be possible that Selle Italia warns about these designs cause they know that since their rails are made to be light that can break easily and want to cover their butts? I mean I've seen a ton of SLR's that have snapped, bent or cracked rails. Maybe that is the flawed design?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by drainyoo
    Valid point but here is another way to look at it. Could it be possible that Selle Italia warns about these designs cause they know that since their rails are made to be light that can break easily and want to cover their butts? I mean I've seen a ton of SLR's that have snapped, bent or cracked rails. Maybe that is the flawed design?
    Though earlier you mentioned you hadn't heard of NU clamp failures, so it couldn't be a poor design. You don't think that making the saddle rails more likely to fail (which is after all the only thing we are saying is wrong with the NU) is also poor design?

    I'm sure it is SI covering themselves - on the basis that they make their rails only strong enough to work with conventional clamps. Curious whether the failed rails you have seen have been used in seatposts like the NU, or clamped outside the recommended zone (as mine was when I bent it). If so, given that SI say not to do this, is it their fault, or possibly that of the person who installed it? Do you think SI should make their rails stronger to account for people not following their instructions?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrism
    Though earlier you mentioned you hadn't heard of NU clamp failures, so it couldn't be a poor design. You don't think that making the saddle rails more likely to fail (which is after all the only thing we are saying is wrong with the NU) is also poor design?

    I'm sure it is SI covering themselves - on the basis that they make their rails only strong enough to work with conventional clamps. Curious whether the failed rails you have seen have been used in seatposts like the NU, or clamped outside the recommended zone (as mine was when I bent it). If so, given that SI say not to do this, is it their fault, or possibly that of the person who installed it? Do you think SI should make their rails stronger to account for people not following their instructions?
    No but I think they should make rails that can work with any clamp design.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeveless
    Have you looked a the NU clamp design? It believe it's one of those designs that puts the rails in pure shear and doesn't really "clamp" them, never a good idea. I want to save weight just about as much as the next guy, but I'm not going to buy an inherently poor design in the process. No wonder Selle Italia warns about such designs right in their packaging; I think it's not a question of if but when regarding failure.

    I contacted Nino about the design, shared by Extralite I believe, because I thought I was interpreting the pictures wrong and his only response was basically "they've sold many like this." I really can't imagine their defense for such a design save for the weight savings. If basic logic class taught me anything it's the "common practice" fallacy.

    I will stick with my Masterpiece with a clamp that practically grips the entire length of the rails of my SLR and weighs a pittance more. Peace of mind is worth the tenth of a pound.
    Clearly, the issue is with the rails failing (and their design) not the post guts failing. This clamp design is not unusual: AX-lightness schmolke and KCNC also use this design. I weigh around 90 kilos / 195lbs (sometimes more sometimes less) and I have never had a failure of *my* rails or post guts. I use the Speedneedle and Becker saddles that both have composite rails. I briefly used a SLR with the NU but found it uncomfortable.

    I saw one internet topic wear a roadie broke the bolt on his (I believe) lighter version of the alloy new ultimate post. Of course we've also seen a couple busted ti hollow railed saddles so SI is doing the appropriate thing to warn about this. SI should do something about their design

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by drainyoo
    No but I think they should make rails that can work with any clamp design.
    So they should be heavier than they need to be for those of us with conventional clamps?

    Really not sure why SI should be doing something about fixing the problem caused by dodgy engineering design from the seatpost makers. Yes there are several light seatposts about with such a design - it's kind of an obvious (and dare I say "cheap" given the cost of the posts we're talking about) way to make a light clamp. As mentioned before, it's the "common practice" fallacy that because others are doing it to it's a reasonable thing to do. In reality it is a very poor way to make such an interface from an overall engineering point of view - for a given strength, fixing the seatpost interface so that it doesn't put the rails into shear stress would result in less additional weight than SI beefing up their rails to cope. It's NU / Extralite / KCNC / AXL / Schmolkes problem, not SIs.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrism
    . It's NU / Extralite / KCNC / AXL / Schmolkes problem, not SIs.
    Hmm . . . but their component is not the one breaking

    It's just one of those things you have to be aware of - don't use 29t rings with storck power arm pros, 2.4 tires with kilos (it'll be a tight fit next to the shock), power cordz shift wires only work with certain liners or housing, etc, etc.

    SI would have to make two types of rails or develop a light rail that works with both.

    So if you use si ti rails with one of these posts - good luck to you!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrism
    So they should be heavier than they need to be for those of us with conventional clamps?

    Really not sure why SI should be doing something about fixing the problem caused by dodgy engineering design from the seatpost makers. Yes there are several light seatposts about with such a design - it's kind of an obvious (and dare I say "cheap" given the cost of the posts we're talking about) way to make a light clamp. As mentioned before, it's the "common practice" fallacy that because others are doing it to it's a reasonable thing to do. In reality it is a very poor way to make such an interface from an overall engineering point of view - for a given strength, fixing the seatpost interface so that it doesn't put the rails into shear stress would result in less additional weight than SI beefing up their rails to cope. It's NU / Extralite / KCNC / AXL / Schmolkes problem, not SIs.
    I really haven't seen any proof that this clamp design is flawed. If it were flawed would the clamp break and not the rails? Also they choose this design not cause it's cheap but cause it's the main reason why these posts are very light.

    If SI's rail designs weren't flawed they wouldn't be breaking so often. I've seen SLR rails snap on a standard clamp that they recommend. Does that mean that clamp is flawed as well? It's really hard for me to believe that the clamp is the flawed design and not the rails. Do I think this type of clamp puts a different type of pressure on the rails than a standard clamp? Of course, it's logical, but at $145 a pop I think SI should make these rails strong enough to handle any design.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slobberdoggy
    So if you use si ti rails with one of these posts - good luck to you!

    Does SI warn on all it's saddles or just the ones with carbon rails? I don't remember seeing a warning with my SLR.

    I currently have an SLR on my NU and it seems ok.

  20. #20
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    Cool-blue Rhythm Calling a Spade a Spade

    Quote Originally Posted by drainyoo
    If it were flawed would the clamp break and not the rails?
    That is just a silly statement. We're talking a design flaw here, not a construction or materials flaw. If the latter were true then yes the clamps would fail. It's the former, a design flaw, that we are discussing. If the design of one component puts unnecessary and more importantly unanticipated stresses on another, clearly the original component is at fault for the failure.

    Analogy: A stem has sharp edges all along the inside of its faceplate causing it to cut into every carbon bar put in it. The stem's manufacturer claims compatibility with all bars. All carbon bar makers say not to use said stem. When the handlebars break would it be the bar's fault or the stems fault?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by drainyoo
    Also they choose this design not cause it's cheap but cause it's the main reason why these posts are very light.
    Really? You have inside knowledge of their design decisions then? Personally I'd be very surprised if cost didn't come into it.

    I think SI should make these rails strong enough to handle any design.
    Maybe they should make 2 different design saddles - one as it is now and one 20g heavier which is NU approved. Don't see why those of us with conventional clamps should have to lug round the extra weight you need.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrism
    Really? You have inside knowledge of their design decisions then? Personally I'd be very surprised if cost didn't come into it.
    I don't have inside knowledge, it's just pretty obvious, that's why all the really light post use this clamp design. I doubt it's a coincidence.


    Quote Originally Posted by chrism
    Maybe they should make 2 different design saddles - one as it is now and one 20g heavier which is NU approved. Don't see why those of us with conventional clamps should have to lug round the extra weight you need.
    That could work.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeveless
    That is just a silly statement. We're talking a design flaw here, not a construction or materials flaw. If the latter were true then yes the clamps would fail. It's the former, a design flaw, that we are discussing. If the design of one component puts unnecessary and more importantly unanticipated stresses on another, clearly the original component is at fault for the failure.

    Analogy: A stem has sharp edges all along the inside of its faceplate causing it to cut into every carbon bar put in it. The stem's manufacturer claims compatibility with all bars. All carbon bar makers say not to use said stem. When the handlebars break would it be the bar's fault or the stems fault?
    But the Ti Rails have even failed when using the standard clamp design. So what does that tell you?

  24. #24
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    Silly!

    There is no need to argue here.

    One does not need to be an engineer to see how the narrow seat rail clamp width of designs like NU will put a huge increase in stress on the saddle rails. Concentrating all the force on such a narrow area will greatly increase the chance of failure of a saddle rail. When we accept that this saddle rail clamp design is not appropriate for use with lighter saddle rails (carbon, tubular ti) then all will be fine. Just use the NU and similar seatposts with solid ti railed saddles. If you want to ride a carbon or tubular ti railed saddle, it would be advisable to use a seatpost that better distributes both clamping and riding forces. USE, Thomson, and Easton all offer seatposts thta have much more support for the saddle rails, and are better designs for light railed saddles.
    Personally, I like my bike to be as light as possible, but there are some failures I just do not want to risk: a busted saddle rail is more than an inconvenience when one is a three hour ride form the trailhead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barrows
    There is no need to argue here.

    One does not need to be an engineer to see how the narrow seat rail clamp width of designs like NU will put a huge increase in stress on the saddle rails. Concentrating all the force on such a narrow area will greatly increase the chance of failure of a saddle rail.
    I don't think anyone is arguing that but there have been cases where the rails broke when using a post with a standard clamp that AI recommends. Is it still the clamps fault?
    Light is right.

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