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  1. #1
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    Idea! Please Help! Weight Weenie on a Trail Bike

    Hello!

    I've been lurking in the forums for a long time, and I was hoping to get feedback on my new build. I want to build up a medium SantaCruz Solo/5010, for 27.5 wheels.

    Its not heavy, per say, but I want it lighter! I cant think of any good options at this point though to make any massive effect. I also haven't picked out a headset, any ideas?

    On a side note, does anybody have experience with frm axles/Tune axles? they may be currently one of the easier ways to shed weight.

    Brake: XTR 237 253 490
    Brake Rotor: XT 115 115 230
    Brake Rotor Bolts: 6ti bolts 24 24 48
    Cables: Nokon 53
    Cassette: 11-36 XG-1080 239
    Chain: KMC sl10 257
    Crankset: NEXT SL 32tooth 430
    Bottom Bracket: RaceFace 87
    Fork: Fox Float 140 +starnut 1700
    Frame: Santa Cruz Solo 2300
    Grips: LizardSkins DSP Mountain 30.3 27
    Handlebar: Raceface 175
    Headset: ??? 100
    Pedals: Time Atac12 240
    Seat: Specialized Phenom Pro 192
    Seat Post: Reverb 550
    Seat Post clamp: Woodman Deathgrip Ti/SL 13
    Shifter: XTR Rear 117
    Stem: RaceFace Turbine 135
    Top cap/spacers: ???? 10
    Tire (Front): Conti. Xking 2.2 racesport 540
    Tire (Rear): Conti. Xking 2.2 racesport 540
    Hub: 32h American Classic Front 116
    Rim: NoTubes ZTR Crest 355
    Spokes: DT 1.8's w/ nipple's 186
    Hub: Industry 9 Rear 255
    Rim: NoTubes ZTR Crest 355
    Spokes: DT 1.8's w/ nipples 186
    Valves:Stans 8
    9934 21.90084

  2. #2
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    Great build. I'm thinking the Crest rims are going to be a bit flexy unless you're a very light and smooth trail rider.

  3. #3
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    Why the XTR brakes? Take the 2014 Formula R1 and you shave about 100 g (with 160mm rotors). For the spokes, you could go with flat Sapim or DT Aerolite to save more weight too. Finally, you could also save some grams on your stem -- there are quite a lot of durable stems that weigh less than 135g (depending on stem's length).

  4. #4
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    Thanks for the replies!

    Spokes, interesting, I'll have to look into that. As for brakes, that is my only "must have". My experience with formula has been subpar... I realized they claimed to have fixed a lot of the problems I had with their new brakes, but I like my shimano I guess.

    As for stem? What is lighter in a 60mm length? I have been smashing my head against the wall looking for a light 60mm stem. Everybody makes lighter 90mm, which I'm not such a fan of the handling.

    Any suggestions on headset? The Santa Cruz solo needs a tapered headset, with the bottom cup sticking out. I'll go with king, but I want something lighter if you guys can think of it. Does FSA make a headset like that, that will fit their new light bearings?

  5. #5
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    Not necessarily lighter, but I'd throw some 30mm wide carbon rims on there. I'm only 145lbs in race shape, but going from AL to carbon is a game changer, particularly on the front wheel. I have Enve clinchers and DT Swiss tubulars for my XC HT 29er race bike, and 30mm Chinese carbon clinchers on my AM rig. Only aluminum rim at this point is a Bontrager Mustang I have laced up to my PowerTap disc hub.

    Keep the XTR brakes. Get lighter rotors, though. You can get Ashima AiRotors for like $15 each.

  6. #6
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    The weight and price of the Ashima interested me until I read a bunch of posts describing them as "bendy" and "pulsating". I have XT 160 and it'd be great to lose a few grams on the cheap then sell the icetech. Any improvements recently on the Ashima AiRotors to warrant the switch and save about 40 grams front and rear total?

  7. #7
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    I was wondering the same. Ice tech rotors work great so far in my experience. I wish I could afford enves, most likely next years upgrade. Headset suggestions?

  8. #8
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    I have the 160mm one-piece Formula R1 rotors (87 g) and happy with them. As for the stem, look at the Syntace F109 -- under 100 g.

  9. #9
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    As Jerome suggests plus Zoom bars: 25.4mm x 580mm 85g , 31.8mm x 580mm 94g, approx $125. drops almost 1/4 lbs

  10. #10
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    Thanks for the replies! I'm definite looking into the syntace stem. It's fugly, but that's almost 30g savings. I will also look into the formula rotors. Ice tech is nice... But it's heavy. I'll probably end up keeping them around, in case it doesn't work out. I'm intrigued about the mt. zoom bars. Those ones are too short, but they make an xl bar that looks right on.

    So what about headsets? How do one weight weenie those?

  11. #11
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    Extralite on my xc race bike and fatbike. Extralite came out with the ExtraBolt 16 (6g) for 1 1/8 forks in tapered headtube if you need that. Chris King on my am.

    And I'm gonna second Jerome on the CX Ray Sapim flat spokes too. Why use anything else unless you're dh.

    Tune 27.5" wheelset $800 for racing only! Not trail riding:
    Tune Prince Cannonball Sapim CX Ray Carbon Rims 1144G 27 5" | eBay

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by WickedLite View Post
    Tune 27.5" wheelset $800 for racing only! Not trail riding:
    Tune Prince Cannonball Sapim CX Ray Carbon Rims 1144G 27 5" | eBay
    I don't understand race day only. Isn't that the one time you need it to work at its best, and you'll push it the hardest?

    That is a good price though... I'd be hesitant of buying carbon wheels online though. You guys got me to looking into enve.... dangerous game for my wallet...

    Thanks for the headset though. The problem is that the santa cruz solo needs to have the bottom cup stuck out. It looks like Chris King might be the only one... but i really don't believe the hype, as well as its heavy :/

  13. #13
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    Race Day only: I save my lightest/most expensive wheelset for racing. I guess if I had more money I would have many lightest wheelsets. I run heavier all round wheelsets when not racing, plus I hit harder jumps etc. xc bikes aren't really meant for while I'm training just to spice it up a little.

    That's a great price on that wheelset.

  14. #14
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    Oh yes, as WickedLite said, a safe and fun (although expensive for what it is) way to save a bit more weight is the Extralite stem cap and bolt. Mine weighted 4g (replaced a cap/bolt assembly around 25 g)...

  15. #15
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    I ordered a kcnc top cap and star nut. I may swap it out with a blank carbon one, just for looks. Every bit helps My goal is to be right at 22 or a hair under at like 21.9 pounds with pedals and everything else. I have a bet saying it can't be done. Do you guys know if the new 2014 revelation 650b is lighter than a fox? The fox came in at 1700g from their website. It didn't look like magura had a fork in 130mm at 650b too bad.

  16. #16
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    Well, here is the (almost) final build. Bike comes in at 22.01 lbs. Still needs black valve stems, and the black rockshox stickers i had made.

    On a totally unrelated note, does anybody have a good way to lose 29g?

    Please Help! Weight Weenie on a Trail Bike-image.jpgPlease Help! Weight Weenie on a Trail Bike-image_1.jpgPlease Help! Weight Weenie on a Trail Bike-image_2.jpg

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuddlyToast View Post
    Well, here is the (almost) final build. Bike comes in at 22.01 lbs. Still needs black valve stems, and the black rockshox stickers i had made.

    On a totally unrelated note, does anybody have a good way to lose 29g?

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    What's your bottom bracket? The new XTR weighs only 73 g (on my precision scale).

  18. #18
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    sick bike! You can still drop some fat on that stem and handlebar.

  19. #19
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    Thanks for the replies.

    I'm pretty sure XTR BB wont be compatible, because the Raceface cranks are a 30mm width.

    Which Bars were you thinking of? The stem is a de-badged new ultimate stem, i don't know if i could have done any lighter in that size. Just under 90g, for a 70mm length.

    I'm thinking the only real way to lose weight will be suspension, but that'll be a year+ off until something gets released (in black, of course )

  20. #20
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    I have Carver rotors, which I like a lot (NOT the Titanium, which I think stink). I didn't realize your stem was that light, that's killer! My Selle Italia seat is 130g, but that's a lot of coin for 60g.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuddlyToast View Post
    Well, here is the (almost) final build. Bike comes in at 22.01 lbs. Still needs black valve stems, and the black rockshox stickers i had made.

    On a totally unrelated note, does anybody have a good way to lose 29g?
    Someone on the Bronson thread swapped out their chain stay protector for a lighter neoprine one.

    Santa Cruz Bronson picture thread

    I also saw someone who went with lighter skewers but could not find the post.

    Don't know if that will give you your 29g.

  22. #22
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    There are a lot of people only running 3 bolts per rotor, even for DH. Unfortunately, I see that you are using Ti already, and that might be getting a little squirrly, but that would get you 24g savings and the other 5g could easily be "tuned" off of some other, non critical, parts with a dremel. Do you have an aluminum headset preload bolt in your top cap yet?

  23. #23
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    Forgot to mention...sick bike dude!!! A weight weenie 5010 build is one part of my dream quiver!

  24. #24
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    Hey Thanks!

    Yes, Sam Hill was famous for only 3 rotors bolts back in the day. I feel if I'm not going to skimp on lighter brakes (formula *cough*), I might as well not skimp on the rotor bolts

    After looking at carbon rims, it looks like there will actually be a weight penalty on each rim, so i don't think i can make it sub 22 with carbon hoops....maybe keep the weight gain to break even with areolite spokes.

    I hear ya on the light axles, my only problem is the cost/availablitly. Europeans love that kind of thing, but its super expensive to get my hands on them.

    I am currently using an aluminum bolt in the headset, but with an absolute black stem-cap combo, i can save a decent bit of weight.

  25. #25
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    Hey Guys,

    So with the bike being put away for the season, its time to rebuild, and dial in the bike further. I think its important to discuss some of the more long term concerns with weight weenie parts, and how they handle aggressive riding.

    To recap, my goal was to build the lightest trail bike, with parts i could source relatively easily. I bought some of the parts expecting failure, which might seem silly, but i figured i couldn't criticize if i never had any first hand experience with these parts. I ended up with a 22.01 lbs trail bike, with parts like a stealth reverb, and XTR brakes (my background is a bike mechanic, so reliability is very important to me, as i rarely want to work on my own bike, especially if I'm not getting payed for it ) I'm rough 5'9ish and 160-170lbs depending on backpack, etc.

    I am going to post pictures and weights once all the new parts come in.

    Overall, this bike ripped! The lightness combined with the bigger wheels, was a pretty big eye opener. I actually found that the front end was a bit too light at times, and i had to change the way i ride to compensate.

    This bike was also put through the ringer, it was used on a bunch of Enduro style trails, as well as many laps in my local bike park (Kicking horse mountain resort). It was also hucked over a couple road gaps, for good measure.

    As it stands, I was really impressed with how everything held up. Ill break down the parts that need to be replaced, and some of the stand out performers.

    Also, I'm not easy on my bikes...this particular bike has had some major tumbles... checkers or wreckers!

    Needs replacement:

    Formula Rotors
    While they work for more XC oriented trails, when pushed to the limit, they just couldn't hold up. This is hardly the rotors fault, i kinda expected this, but never the less, they didn't make the cut. I will be keeping them around, if i ever do another 24hr event, or more XC oriented riding, but currently they are tucked in the tool box as spares.

    they are getting replaced with ice techs (180f 160r).

    Stans Rims/Revo Spokes
    Thoroughly impressed with these rims, but alas, they didn't last the season. I built up a pretty weight weenie wheel set, and they did reasonably well for the crap i put them through. I was also impressed with the Revo spokes. They have a very bad reputation in my shop, and were a pain to build with, but when they were all set up, i didn't have any spoke problems. The final nail in the coffin was riding at Kicking horse, and the surrounding area. Notoriously rough, with big descents, the wheels didn't hold up. They lasted about a month of riding they weren't meant for. Hucking into bomb holes meant for dh bikes probably didn't help either.

    They were replaced with 35mm wide carbon rims from china, laced with sapim xrays. Much more appropriate for the bike, and the conditions i was riding. I was blown away with the improvement. Anybody who doubts the Chinese rims, or wide widths needs to stop living under a rock, and try them. Probably one of the biggest upgrades i could have done to this bike.

    Nokon Housing
    Good stuff, i swear by it, but i want to try the jagwire cables.... its lighter, and is cheaper. The take off nokon will be going on my DH bike. It doesn't hold its luster as well as other anodized parts, but overall, i recommend it to anybody who wants superior shifting, that lasts almost forever. Works excellent with a clutch derailleur as well.

    They are getting replaced with the jagwire elite cables housing

    Next SL bars
    While they have been good in the past, and definitely hold up to my abuse, the width just doesn't cut it for me anymore. After upgrading my DH bike to enve minaar bars, i cant do narrow widths anymore.

    They are getting replaced with SixC bars. I will not be cutting them down initially.

    Schwalbe Tires Rocket Rons 2.2 pacestar/whatever. No snake skin
    I haven't had the best luck with schwalbes in the past. They are amazing when they work, but i have also wrecked my fair share prematurely. The pair on this bike held up to the end of the season. They came to life with the 35mm wide rims. By the end of the season, i had about 5 dollars in 1's holding the front tire together. Initially they were set up tubeless, but by the end of the season, there were little slashes everywhere, and required a tube. I had 2 flats this season. I also started running my psi lower and lower, settling around 27 psi.

    They will be getting replaced with the new nobby nics, with side wall protection. Unfortunately my bike will be taking a pretty big hit on the scale, but i need meatier tires if i want to push my limits, and not the tires limits.

    Time ATAC 12, w/o platform
    They could not handle the heat. I never really liked them, and they were very loose feeling, it never felt like i was clipped in. I could rip my leg out of them just by pulling up it felt. Within a week, they had bearing play, and after a couple weeks, they were warrantied. Time was great about warranty, but they said that i couldn't ride those anymore, as i would keep wrecking them. They instead, replaced my pedals with their lightest DH pedal offering.

    While i still prefer shimano's SPD system, the DH pedals are going to stay on the bike for the foreseeable future. Shimano needs to make a weight weenie SPD pedal, but until that day, time will suffice.

    Stand out parts:

    New Ultimate stem 70mm length
    Despite its incredibly light weight, it survived. Flex wasn't an issue, and i never broke anything. Each crash usually meant that i had to twist my bars back in place, but this is to be expected with such weight weenie parts. I would prefer a 50mm stem for what i am doing, but the Santa Cruz fits pretty small, and i haven't found a legit weight weenie 50mm option.

    Chinese Rims
    Dang. Stiff, light (not as light as my alu stans rims... but i digress) and the extra width is a must. I would recommend these to anyone, and stand by them. Built up real nice, and i totally dig the matte UD carbon look.

    Race face narrow wide chain ring, and cranks
    Amazing. Light, relatively cheap, and had 1 chain drop the entire season. I recently sanded off all the logos, they look even better stealth. Pics when the bike is rebuilt.

    DSP Grips
    Another no brainer. Anybody looking to save weight needs to buy these. Cheap, they never slip, and are relatively durable. I used to ride with gloves, but these grips are so good, i no longer do.

    Conclusion
    Overall, i was quite impressed. Weight Weenie Trail bikes are totally valid, and i am hoping will be even more deadlier with these upgrades. As it stands, I'm hoping the final weigh in is less than 23 lbs. If i can do that, then i will be happy. We'll see once the parts come in.

    So far, the tires/rims/bars/rotors/adapter for new rotor, will all add weight, and the jagwire will hopefully drop some weight. We'll see how everything comes out in the wash.

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