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Thread: My WW journey

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    My WW journey

    Ok...maybe not WW...but as good as I can do. My goal was smart-light..durable and rideable upgrades to give me a lighter bike. Just some info for those that are looking to loose weight…what it costs, etc. Started out with a stock ’12 Stumpy Evo HT 29er at an approx. weight of 24.5 pounds. This included Shimano 520 pedals. This did not include the pie plate or reflectors. This was set up tubeless (Roval tape and valve stems and a Stan’s). I didn’t have an accurate scale so this is just on a bathroom scale but should be close. I have spent ~$1700 so far and dropped 2.5 pounds off the bike to a weight just at 22 w/summer tires; 22.7 w/winter tires. Unfortunately, I didn’t write down all the weights like I should have, but these are going to be v. close. To get to this weight I did the following:

    Roval Control wheelset (~400g)
    S-Works carbon crank w/Wolf Tooth direct mount 32t ring, S-Works BB (~225g)
    Syntace F109 stem (~40g)
    Niner RDO carbon seatpost (~25g)
    S-Works Prowess carbon mini-riser bar (~25g)
    Alligator Serration rotors (~30g)
    XT cassette (~30g)
    Removed the E.13 chainguide (~75g)

    I added a cage and Garmin mount so this is included in the final weight. On a $/g basis, the best bang for the buck are the cranks and wheels; the control items (bar/post) were the worst. I really want to be in the 21 range (with summer tires) so the last thing I will do is pick up some XT or XTR pedals to drop the final few grams I need (I just can’t do the Eggbeaters).
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    Thx for the update. The only oddball item seems to be the cassette. I always struggle with this item as it is the most expensive consumable in the mix. XTR will save you a bit, the SRAM even more, but gets very costly. What's your philosophy on casettes?

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    If you know how to maintain cup/cone hubs and don't mind a little extra scheduled maintenance, get the XTR pedals. Performance wise they're completely indiscernible from XT, but at that range its all weight.(They're noticeably lighter in your hands) I have them and absolutely love them.

    Don't listen to all the people who give them a bad rep for failing prematurely, they simply didn't maintain them. The bearings need a good adjustment after the first ~300 mi, then around every 1000mi afterwards. They're also not sealed very well, so the grease will wash out more quickly in wet/muddy seasons. I rebuild mine rice a season; after spring and before winter, and always repack them with Dura-Ace grease(which is amazing stuff....).
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    What about a saddle swap? The Phenom is pretty hefty.
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    Quote Originally Posted by phlegm View Post
    Thx for the update. The only oddball item seems to be the cassette. I always struggle with this item as it is the most expensive consumable in the mix. XTR will save you a bit, the SRAM even more, but gets very costly. What's your philosophy on casettes?
    I refuse to spend $200 on a wear part so the XT was about as light as I could get before making the big jump over to the $200+ cassettes. Believe me...the XG-1080 was looking nice at nearly 100g less than what I had.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cenzobear View Post
    If you know how to maintain cup/cone hubs and don't mind a little extra scheduled maintenance, get the XTR pedals. Performance wise they're completely indiscernible from XT, but at that range its all weight.(They're noticeably lighter in your hands) I have them and absolutely love them.

    Don't listen to all the people who give them a bad rep for failing prematurely, they simply didn't maintain them. The bearings need a good adjustment after the first ~300 mi, then around every 1000mi afterwards. They're also not sealed very well, so the grease will wash out more quickly in wet/muddy seasons. I rebuild mine rice a season; after spring and before winter, and always repack them with Dura-Ace grease(which is amazing stuff....).
    Thanks for the info....I have rebuilt plenty of cup/cone bearings. I think the XTRs will make there way onto my bike. I am thinking I can find them for $125 online if I am patient. My 520s weigh 373g and the XTRs are 308g so nearly 70g isn't bad for having a solid pedal. I tried Eggs...can't stand the soft release.
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    Quote Originally Posted by moefosho View Post
    What about a saddle swap? The Phenom is pretty hefty.
    I love my saddle; I suppose I could get the Phenom Pro is 192g and my OEM is probably in the 300g neighborhood. Good thought.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiGeo View Post
    Thanks for the info....I have rebuilt plenty of cup/cone bearings. I think the XTRs will make there way onto my bike. I am thinking I can find them for $125 online if I am patient. My 520s weigh 373g and the XTRs are 308g so nearly 70g isn't bad for having a solid pedal. I tried Eggs...can't stand the soft release.
    You can do alot better than $125.00 for XTR 980 pedals, CRC has them for $104.00 free shipping. Get some Ward Ind. Ti spindles for $38.00. I did this on mine and they've been excellent, only made a small adjustment to the cups after the second ride on the Ti spindles and have not needed to touch them again over two summers.
    Titanium Spindles, Titanium Cleat Bolts, Titanium Look Keo
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    My WW journey-img_3154_1.jpg  


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    Love my phenom. I have ti railed 155mm it came in around 240g i think. So youbare probably right on the weight, assuming its not ti rails.

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    ^^^The Ti rail is probably more realistic for me. Found those XTRs on CRC for $103...wow...may order now....
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    I figure I can loose an additional 168g from replacing my stock saddle with the Phenom Expert (Ti rails..need to weigh my existing saddle this weekend to verify), replacing my pedals with XTR, and switching grips to the ESI Racer's Edge. I tried the Chunky's but didn't like them (too big) so may try to the thinner ones...they are only $13 on eBay so why not right? The one great thing about lock-on grips is they are easy-on/easy-off so I can always put my Specy Sip Grips back on if I don't like the ESIs. The Specy grips are 48g/each which isn't that bad. This will take me down to 21.76 (repeating of course) pounds with my summer tires on it. At that point, I have replaced nearly everything that I am going to replace.
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    My WW journey

    Short of throwing ridiculous amounts of unnecessary carbon at your bike, that's pretty damn good!


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    2013 Rockhopper 29- The hot rod fun bike
    2013 Stumpy HT Comp 29- The racin' machine

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cenzobear View Post
    Short of throwing ridiculous amounts of unnecessary carbon at your bike, that's pretty damn good!


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    Thanks! I too think at ~22lb HT with gears and a suspension fork is great, especially when everything is durable/functional.
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    For $103 your xtr pedals save 65g and might shave a few sec. off your day lap times in a 24hr race. For $93 a Gemini Duo light head saves 55g over your Magicshine 808 P7 (I just weighed both), produces almost 3 time the amount of light and would probably shave minutes off your night lap times (I know it would for me). I know you were looking at Duo/clones, so if you haven't got one yet , that's where I'd spend my money first.
    Mole

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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    For $103 your xtr pedals save 65g and might shave a few sec. off your day lap times in a 24hr race. For $93 a Gemini Duo light head saves 55g over your Magicshine 808 P7 (I just weighed both), produces almost 3 time the amount of light and would probably shave minutes off your night lap times (I know it would for me). I know you were looking at Duo/clones, so if you haven't got one yet , that's where I'd spend my money first.
    Mole
    I am not too concerned with my night-riding weight but thanks for the input. At some point, I am going to pick up a Duo.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiGeo View Post
    At some point, I am going to pick up a Duo.
    Glad to hear this, I'm sure you'll be happy with the results. Good thread, I did a similar project this year with a BMC. It's about a pound heavier than yours but I'm running a triple on the front since I get a lot of road miles on it. Here's a pic.
    Mole
    http://forums.mtbr.com/attachment.ph...thumb=1&stc=1e
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    One other item is the chain. Currently have a standard KMC X10. The X10SL should shave ~30g while retaining good durability (at least from what I can find on here about them). Cost online is ~$45..same as I paid for my standard X10 at the LBS last year so still fits within my "not spending big money saving weight from wear parts" philosophy.
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    I've had good luck with that chain and use it on all my geared bikes. If you didn't already know this, check how many links you need. Some are packaged with only 106 links, which isn't enough for some 29ers (I learned this the hard way). Your probably OK since you only have a 32 up front, but it's better to check just in case.
    Mole

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    Mole, does 30g savings seem about right to you on the chain swap?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiGeo View Post
    I refuse to spend $200 on a wear part so the XT was about as light as I could get before making the big jump over to the $200+ cassettes. Believe me...the XG-1080 was looking nice at nearly 100g less than what I had.
    If you check your chain regularly and replace often your cassette should last a long time. I have seen my riding buddies make the mistake of keeping their "expensive" chains to long because they don't want to shell out the $$ for a new one. The result is they wear out their drivetrain.

    Maybe keep your eye out for a XTR or XXO cassette on sale?

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    KMC X10SL ordered. $48 delivered off of amazon. I can use my old chain for a project anyway...its not worn at all. Also ordered some ESI Racer's edge grips for $12 delivered off eBay. I tried the Chunky's but didn't like them...too fat for me. Hoping the thinner Racer's Edge model will be more like what I have (Specy Sip Grips) in terms of diameter. If not, will use on one of the kid's Razor scooters So that puts me just under 22 with summer tires for $60. Happy times! The seat and pedals may come at some point but not for a while; these would take me down into the mid-21s.
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    I hated the Racers Edge grips and loved the Chunkys on my 680 wide bars.
    Now I've gone to 740 width bars the Racers are fine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TiGeo View Post
    Mole, does 30g savings seem about right to you on the chain swap?
    I don't have access to an X10 chain so I'm not 100% sure but the bikes I've done this to had OEM shimano chains with approx. 45g savings on those. If you not sure about KMC's weight claims I just weighed an X9sl w/116 links (only new chain I had). Gram scale showed 262g and the box said 265g.
    Mole

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    I am going to take mine off and weigh it this week.

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    Re: My WW journey

    Quote Originally Posted by NordieBoy View Post
    I hated the Racers Edge grips and loved the Chunkys on my 680 wide bars.
    Now I've gone to 740 width bars the Racers are fine.
    I have a 720 bar. Got them tonight...they will be more like what I have currently. Will install this week. 52g with end caps. Current Specy Sip Grips are 97g. Cheapest 45g you can loose ($12)!

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    I purchased a KMC X10SL (silver) from amazon - $46 delivered. The original KMC standard X10 chain weighed 239g (not cleaned) and the SL weighed 219g. Not a huge savings but for a part that needed to be replaced anyway, not a bad deal.
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    How about wellgo mag 8 pedals? SPD compatible, weight only 240 gr a pair, under $40 on eBay. But one sided. Good review on amazon.

    Also how about chinese carbon saddle from eBay, or Tioga spyder saddle.

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    I've been running one of those carbon saddles for almost 2 years at this point, and it's still good. Hard to beat $50 for 110g if I remember correctly.

    Just ensure you have a good chamois.

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    Quote Originally Posted by inter View Post
    How about wellgo mag 8 pedals? SPD compatible, weight only 240 gr a pair, under $40 on eBay. But one sided. Good review on amazon.

    Also how about chinese carbon saddle from eBay, or Tioga spyder saddle.
    No thanks on one-sided off-road pedals.....I would use Eggbeaters before that! I will be sticking with Shimanos.

    No thanks on those saddles either...if I change seats I am going with the Specy Phenom Pro which is the same seat as I have now except carbon rails for a ~85g loss.
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    Here she is!
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    Nice rig! Those cranks are badass! Now that I see your tire choice, you could probably drop another 1/4-1/2 pound by going S-Works Fast Trak 2.0" front and rear. Depending on your riding style/conditions though that may not be a good idea. My stumpy came with a set of those, and I have to say they're definitely not as confidence inspiring as ground controls(my favorite tire IMO).
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    ^^^Yes, I have a summer set of tires that I swap out once I get through the wet season; S-Works Fast Trak 2.0 on the front and Renegade Control 1.95 on the back..that gets me from the weight as you see it (22.7) to close to 22 (it looses ~240g). Too wet/loose right now to run those..I love the GCs...and really..they aren't that heavy. The S-Works GC in the front weighed at 650 (quite a bit more portly that the spec on their site shows) and the regular GC in the back weighs 660. I am thinking that if I upgrade to XTR pedals and the Phenom Pro saddle, I will be under 22 with the summer tires.
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    Phenom Pro and XTR pedals ordered...will be under 22lbs.

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    My WW journey

    How much does your sworks crankset with the direct mount weigh? Thinking of these or the race face next sl


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    ^^^Not sure exactly off the top of my head. Somewhere in ~550g range. There are a few threads here that I posted the weight in the last 6 mos...just do a search and you can probably find it.

    Edit: I *believe* the RF is slight lighter but man...the S-Works is just a seriously bad@ss crank/BB combo..high sex appeal! I abused in a muddy 50 miler last month and the BB still spins smooth.
    Last edited by TiGeo; 03-29-2014 at 06:55 AM.
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    Re the direct mount, or spiderless Wolftooth ring, did you run into difficulty getting it attached to the cranks? There's a proprietary Specialized lockring (or could I say, a "specialized Specialized" lockring) that would be tough to do at home. Heard that even some Spesh dealers don't have it.

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    A standard lockring tool (like you would use for a singlespeed) works fine and is what we used at the shop to install mine...they didn't have the special tool.

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    Thx TiGeo. Have a related question: I currently run the WT ring with the s-works cranks, but with the spider.

    I'm trying to figure out how heavy the spider is, to see if I'm better off getting the direct mount Wolftooth ring.

    By any chance did you weight the spider when you removed it (or do you still have access to it)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by phlegm View Post
    Thx TiGeo. Have a related question: I currently run the WT ring with the s-works cranks, but with the spider.

    I'm trying to figure out how heavy the spider is, to see if I'm better off getting the direct mount Wolftooth ring.

    By any chance did you weight the spider when you removed it (or do you still have access to it)?
    I have no idea on the spider, I didn't buy one. My gut says the direct-mount ring will be lighter than the spider + regular ring. It sure looks cleaner.
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    Old vs. new seat. Both are the 143 width. Claimed weight on the Phenom Pro is 192 so a little more than they said but close enough. Was careful to install per their instructions. Carbon paste on everything and didn't torque to even their spec (9nM)..seemed too tight to me. Can't wait to ride it this week.
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    It can be a struggle to find a saddle that's comfortable. To find one in the style & dimensions you already like, but much lighter is like winning the lottery. Nice!

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    I will hold judgment on comfort until I put some saddle time. It is harder than the old saddle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phlegm View Post
    Thx TiGeo. Have a related question: I currently run the WT ring with the s-works cranks, but with the spider.

    I'm trying to figure out how heavy the spider is, to see if I'm better off getting the direct mount Wolftooth ring.

    By any chance did you weight the spider when you removed it (or do you still have access to it)?
    I run the Lightening spider on my S-Works cranks which is 35 grams. The Spec spider I believe is 56 grams.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xc71 View Post
    I run the Lightening spider on my S-Works cranks which is 35 grams. The Spec spider I believe is 56 grams.
    Hey, thx for letting me know.

    The 32T I'm running from WT now is 47g, so with the Spider is then 103g , plus weight of 4 bolts.

    The spiderless is listed at 71g on the WT site, so at least a 30g savings, not to mention it does look much cleaner.

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    Re: My WW journey

    XTRs came today. A little lighter than advertised. Pretty respectable for a real pedal.

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    Very nice! You won't be disappointed! If you're looking to go even lighter on the pedals, you could always get a nice set of Ti spindles like these: RockBros Sporting Goods (Disclaimer: Its not an easy peasy job, XTR's bearings are something like 1.2mm diameter, so if you have little patience, or aren't comfortable with rebuilding cup and cone hubs, I wouldn't bother. Rebuilding these can be a b*tch... Thank shimano that you'll really never have to do much besides tension the bearings once a season. maybe.)

    I've been doing a lot of number crunching etc over the winter, because whn I can't ride I always end up oogling parts. And seeing as we have nearly identical bikes, I'll share my findings

    If you have the financial chops, an XX cassette. I put one on my stumpy in november, and it knocked a half a pound off! I had a 1050 on it before that. The 1091R chain is an excellent match to that as well, or the KMC X10SL you have... :roll eyes: And as for all the longevity issues I've heard, mine is doing just fine 300 miles in...

    You have the PF30 BB, right? If I'm correct, a CK bb will not only save(maybe a few) grams, but its just buttery smooth and lasts forever. I had one on my last bike, worth every penny.

    A new wheel build is always an option. I've been tooling with a wheel build consisting of:
    -WTM KOM rims
    -DT Swiss Revolution spokes
    -Chris King Hubs
    All together this should take at least 550g of the bike. The stock Roval set is 2300g, and the new build would be around 1750g. That being said, if you don't build your own wheels you're looking at about $1k for that. Hope Pro2s are a good alternate... 240s would bee really light, 1575g with alloy nipples! And a set of AC race wheels is 1450g or so, but I simply can't trust a wheel set that light...

    KCNC Makes some cool chain rings for doubles, which are insanely light. They would match well with an XO crank. But you already have a carbon spider less, you're good there..

    Fork wise there's always a SID to upgrade to, and the new RS-1 inverted soon as well. But thats totally unnecessary...

    Cockpit wise a Ritchey C260(not the carbon wrapped) stem is a good weight saving option. Stiff enough for single track riding, but still plenty light. An ENVE bar is a good choice as well, I have one and its one of the best investments I've made! Mine came in at 195g I believe(last gen bar) And an ENVE seat post. It really helps not only with weight, but ride comfort...

    XX shifters are crazy light, but again, not worth it...

    And theres all kinds of little things like Ti fasteners, polycarb headset spacers, Ti QR's/axles... But again, diminishing results. As you can see, all of this stuff gets pretty pricey. Thus is the plight of weight weenies... If you tried really hard, you could not only drain your bank account, but you'll have an 18.5lb bike! I know most of this isn't feasible, just throwing it out there as food for thought...
    2013 Rockhopper 29- The hot rod fun bike
    2013 Stumpy HT Comp 29- The racin' machine

  47. #47
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    ^^^Cenzo, thanks for the list, but I think I have changed everything I can/will at this point. I am at 22.38lbs as it sits and when I go with the summer tires, it should be 21.89 (repeating of course) according to my calcs. That is sick, to me, for an aluminum bike with all "real" parts, nothing crazy-light or silly. To a few of your (v. good) points/suggestions:

    The XX cassette just is too much $$ for something that wears out...but I agree....that is a BIG weight savings....ugh.....and I just replaced my 1030 with an XT...
    For the BB, at some point when the S-Works bearings wear out, I would probably upgrade to something like CK.
    My Rovals are ~1650g...already v. light to me. They are great wheels so no plans for anything after these...unless I went Roval Carbon
    Agree that I could loose some more with a fork upgrade, but again...a bit much $$ for not a lot of value IMHO. I really like my basic Fox fork.
    My cockpit is already fairly light; the Syntace stem, S-Works h-bar, and Niner seatpost are all lightweight (not crazy-light) and functional/not scary.
    Just replaced my shifter with an X9 so no-go on the XX.

    So in the end...am I am a WW? Not really..just want a fast light bike that is durable.

    At some point in the next few years this will go away and be repalced with a Carbon Epic Expert I have a feeling and that many of my parts will get swapped so I have a v. light FS rig!
    Geologist by trade...bicycle mechanic (former) by the grace of God!

    2012 Specialized Stumpy EVO 29 HT

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    You seem like a sensible man, TiGeo. I'll agree with you on all of that. Like I said, lots of cool stuff to do, but diminishing benefits... What you have now is pretty damn light, and incredibly durable for trail riding. Id call it a winner!

    Quote Originally Posted by TiGeo View Post

    At some point in the next few years this will go away and be repalced with a Carbon Epic Expert I have a feeling and that many of my parts will get swapped so I have a v. light FS rig!

    Looks like we have very similar taste in bikes, I've been wanting one of those for years.... Sadly I won't be able to afford one of those before I get out of college!


    ps-how do you like the new saddle, versus the old phenom? I was considering one as well.
    2013 Rockhopper 29- The hot rod fun bike
    2013 Stumpy HT Comp 29- The racin' machine

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    My parts slung on a carbon S-Works HT frame with a SID would certainly drop that pesky last pound to be in the 20 pound range...ahahahahah
    Geologist by trade...bicycle mechanic (former) by the grace of God!

    2012 Specialized Stumpy EVO 29 HT

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cenzobear View Post
    You seem like a sensible man, TiGeo. I'll agree with you on all of that. Like I said, lots of cool stuff to do, but diminishing benefits... What you have now is pretty damn light, and incredibly durable for trail riding. Id call it a winner!




    Looks like we have very similar taste in bikes, I've been wanting one of those for years.... Sadly I won't be able to afford one of those before I get out of college!


    ps-how do you like the new saddle, versus the old phenom? I was considering one as well.
    I am riding the new pedals/saddle this weekend and will let you know. Its the same shape but it does feel a *little* more firm so we will see. Most issues with saddles/firmness go away with more saddle time as your muscles in that areas firm/tone and deal with it better.
    Geologist by trade...bicycle mechanic (former) by the grace of God!

    2012 Specialized Stumpy EVO 29 HT

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