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  1. #1
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    My IF Ti CJ - roadie light bike

    Well, I was just browsing around and saw that dirtboy posted his roadie so I figured what the heck. Here is my IF Ti Crown Jewel that I built over the summer.

    Since this pic I have replaced the pedals with speedplay tyler hamilton zero stainless pedals. I have also replaced the bar with a Kestrel EMS Pro SL OS and I replaced the stem with a Specialized S-Works 110 mm.

    The bike is built with mostly Campy record except for the FSA carbon pro crankset and CaneCreek 200SL brakes. The brakes are extremely light but they just don't quite cut it for the WV hills. I ordered a set of Campy record brakes to replace them.

    As of right now it weighs a little under 16 1/4 pounds.

    Anyway, here are some crappy pics of it.



  2. #2
    Trail rider and racer
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    Lovely bike.

    Awesome looking or something - Drool worthy in fact
    Trev!

  3. #3
    I like bikes :)
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    yes.. definately a beauty
    *record* drools......

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Scary
    Campagnolo looks good but doesn't work as well as Shimano.
    Most of the guys busted for doping this year were using Campy, so what does that say?
    It says your an idiot j/k.

    Very very nice bike! I LOVE IF's....

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Scary
    Campagnolo looks good but doesn't work as well as Shimano.
    Most of the guys busted for doping this year were using Campy, so what does that say?
    you're not really serious are you?

  6. #6
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    ive ridden both shimano (105, ultegra and dura ace) and campy (centaur and chorus), and i have to say, i like the centaur better than dura ace and the chorus was just a dream. much snappier shifting than shimano
    and i dont think that the groupo that the people were riding who got busted for doping has anything to do with anything lol

  7. #7
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    Thanks everyone.

    Mr. Scary, are you joking?

    I've ridden every shimano there is from Sora up to DuraAce. I have never ridden anything nicer than Record though. However, I'm not saying that the record is nicer than the dura ace either. They are just different. The truth is as long as everything is tuned properly all components work great. The biggest plus with Campy is how long it lasts and how long it stays tuned. Oh, and the fact that carbon looks sweet!

    BTW..I have shimano xt on my superlight and shimano tiagra on my cross bike. I am by no means anti shimano. I believe that tuning is 90%, component choice is the other 10%.

    The reason I chose Campy Record on this bike is because I built this bike to last.

    Most of the guys busted for doping this year were using Campy, so what does that say?
    Uhhhhhhhhh..........honestly, I don't think it says anything. Pro's ride what they are paid to ride.
    Last edited by LowCel; 12-23-2004 at 05:27 AM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by LowCel
    Thanks everyone.

    Mr. Scary, are you joking?

    I've ridden every shimano there is from Sora up to DuraAce. I have never ridden anything nicer than Record though. However, I'm not saying that the record is nicer than the dura ace either. They are just different. The truth is as long as everything is tuned properly all components work great. The biggest plus with Campy is how long it lasts and how long it stays tuned. Oh, and the fact that carbon looks sweet!

    BTW..I have shimano xt on my superlight and shimano tiagra on my cross bike. I am by no means anti shimano. I believe that tuning is 90%, component choice is the other 10%.

    The reason I chose Campy Record on this bike is because I built this bike to last.



    Uhhhhhhhhh..........honestly, I don't think it says anything. Pro's ride what they are paid to ride.
    agreed. I've heard stories of people riding a set of campy components for DECADES. Look on ebay at how many people are selling 25 year old campy components, and then go try to find a 10 year old set of dura ace components. Plus any small part that breaks on a campy shifter can be replaced, while on a shimano you have to replace the whole shifter.

    That being said, they both work great, I think it comes down to how long you want it to last, and which method of shifting you prefer. Personally, I hate the shimano system, and prefer having the campy style shifters.

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    Very Sweet! I truely love it.

    Your cassette looks a little large for campy derailer? What's the size, 12x32? Is that a compact cranks? Talk to me cause I may do the same for my roadbike.

  10. #10
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    Thanks. The cassette is a Campy Chorus 13-29. The crankset is a standard 53x39. I am hoping to be able to comfortably switch to a 12-25 cassette this year. I may have to shoot for a 13-26 though. There are some nice climbs in WV where the 29 comes in handy for me right now.

  11. #11
    Jed Peters
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    Dude, what's up with IF and their "fitting" lately? I think they're leaving it up too much to the consumer, and not letting shops make intelligent choices on fit/design.

    (I.E. the fact that this bike is a full-custom and has a WAY too short headtube for the stem that you chose to run.)

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zonic Man
    Dude, what's up with IF and their "fitting" lately? I think they're leaving it up too much to the consumer, and not letting shops make intelligent choices on fit/design.

    (I.E. the fact that this bike is a full-custom and has a WAY too short headtube for the stem that you chose to run.)
    I agree that some of the IF's as of late have featured bizzare stems lengths, spacers and massive posts, but how you can draw a conclusion about the stem and WAY too short headtube is confusing. A 110mm stem seems normal for that sort of TT I would have thought. You don't normally go to 90mm stems on such bikes. And the diff between a 100 and 110mm is marginal on a roadie.
    Trev!

  13. #13
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    Zonic, not real sure what you are talking about. The bike fits perfect. I had this bike modeled pretty much off of a previous bike that I had. I just had a few changes made to the chain stays and the head tube length.

    The bike is awesome on climbs and quick rides. It is also very comfortable on century's. I'm not sure what more I could ask for.

    Also, if you check my original post you will see that the pedals, handlebar, and stem have been replaced since that picture was taken. The stem that was on for the picture was a 120. I had to use it since I was still waiting for my carbon oversized handlebar to arrive. The picture has a regular specialized bar and stem on it that I borrowed from the shop until my warranty Kestrel bar came in.

    As for IF not letting shops make intelligent decisions I'm not sure that applies here. I am the guy at the shop that would make the decisions on fit and the customer of this particular bike. Personally, I think the guy that set the bike up for me did a pretty good job, especially since there is nothing about the frame that I would change.

    Here is a crappy pic of it showing the new stem. Not sure if you will be able to tell any difference though. I am planning on switching to a 100 this season though. Mainly just so that it will a little more comfortable when staying in the drops while riding in pace lines.


  14. #14
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    Cool that your fish matches the bike.

  15. #15
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    LOL, I think the fish is trying to figure out how to get to the bike so that she can eat it.

  16. #16
    Jed Peters
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor!
    I agree that some of the IF's as of late have featured bizzare stems lengths, spacers and massive posts, but how you can draw a conclusion about the stem and WAY too short headtube is confusing. A 110mm stem seems normal for that sort of TT I would have thought. You don't normally go to 90mm stems on such bikes. And the diff between a 100 and 110mm is marginal on a roadie.
    Well, when you order a custom bike, they ask you the type of stem you want to run (or should).

    If they know that, they know your saddle height based (roughly) on your measurements, etc. etc., there should be NO spacers (or, actually, 1-1.5cm of spacers is okay) or very few mm's.

    The frame SHOULD have been built for you accordingly. That means no big stack with a short headtube.

    It took me sending back my bike to get the correct headtube length on my IF and getting a new one. To Indy's credit, they were TOTALLY amenable to getting me set up in the correct fit, and were fantastic guys to work with.

  17. #17
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    Glad to hear that they worked with you.

    I got the exact frame that I wanted so I can't complain. (Personal opinion) I would rather have a few spacers than a tall head tube. That's just one of my pet peaves, I don't like looking down at tall head tubes. I can't explain it though.

    That's the great thing about having a custom frame built, it's built just how the rider wants it.

  18. #18
    Jed Peters
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    Quote Originally Posted by LowCel
    Glad to hear that they worked with you.

    I got the exact frame that I wanted so I can't complain. (Personal opinion) I would rather have a few spacers than a tall head tube. That's just one of my pet peaves, I don't like looking down at tall head tubes. I can't explain it though.

    That's the great thing about having a custom frame built, it's built just how the rider wants it.
    You don't have to have the tall headtube extension to get a frame that fits.

    You have too much post showing IMHO, so I would have increased the seattube height, as well as the headtube height, and just made the tt a bit taller. This way you have a frame that is more porportional.

  19. #19
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    I understand where you are coming from. A lot of people feel the way that you do about the seatpost and the stem height. I just really like compact geometry.

    I guess it all boils down to the fact that I am very happy with it, which is pretty important since I am the one that rides it and and paid for it.
    Last edited by LowCel; 12-27-2004 at 07:50 AM.

  20. #20
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    reality

    That is a seriously sweet bike.....I was very close to hooking one up at one point. The color is really nice...... I wouldn't really waste time having a disussion on "fit"........no offense to Zonic...but almost everything he said is untrue.......ok maybe not "untrue" but just "theory and opinion".......there are at least 3 major ways of fitting a bike, and various little ideas and attitudes in between...so it's really a waste of time discussing it. As soon as you think you can just look at someone else's bike and come to the conclusion that it doesn't fit right well......then you are delusional.....or a know it all..which could go hand in hand.......same goes for riding style. Just watch the pro-peloton for a few minutes....and tell me what you come up with...anyway...... I'm bored at work so I thought I'd throw in some objectivity....which is really lacking on this board sometimes.
    There's nothing like having the world under your wheels......

  21. #21
    Jed Peters
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tbonius
    That is a seriously sweet bike.....I was very close to hooking one up at one point. The color is really nice...... I wouldn't really waste time having a disussion on "fit"........no offense to Zonic...but almost everything he said is untrue.......ok maybe not "untrue" but just "theory and opinion".......there are at least 3 major ways of fitting a bike, and various little ideas and attitudes in between...so it's really a waste of time discussing it. As soon as you think you can just look at someone else's bike and come to the conclusion that it doesn't fit right well......then you are delusional.....or a know it all..which could go hand in hand.......same goes for riding style. Just watch the pro-peloton for a few minutes....and tell me what you come up with...anyway...... I'm bored at work so I thought I'd throw in some objectivity....which is really lacking on this board sometimes.
    No one in the pro peleton has that many spacers. Fact.

    You can tell quite a bit looking at a spacer stack and the amount of seatpost one is showing.

  22. #22
    Cold. Blue. Steel.
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    think about it...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zonic Man
    No one in the pro peleton has that many spacers. Fact.
    no sh!t, captain obvious. no one in the pro peleton pays for their equipment, or maintains it. when you cut your steerer tube off, it's gone. and you cannot go back to a taller position without buying a new fork. pros can switch around for FREE. IMO, if you don't keep a bit of extra steerer, you are making a bad mistake when it comes to future adjustability. just because your bike is custom doesn't mean you won't need to make some changes down the road...
    hop off your high horse and try to understand that this guy is an experienced rider and shop rat- and this is not his first bike and this is how he likes it. now go out and ride!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zonic Man
    You can tell quite a bit looking at a spacer stack and the amount of seatpost one is showing.
    obviously, you can't.

    sweet bike, low cel. wish i had one just like it, but with a compact FSA crankset...
    makes a 12-25 cassette really great for the mountains (i live in Asheville, NC).
    Spinning and Grinning...

  23. #23
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    reality

    One again....everything you just said is completely untrue.....do I need to spend a second on the web a show you photos of pro bikes? Do I need to waste my time, and your's doing this? Sure you can find bikes that "visually" look perfect...no spacers...perty saddle height etc....., and I'll find a bike that contradicts you.

    Let me ask you some questions.
    Do you have a magic spacer stack height measurement?.......Cause I know for a "fact" that many in the pro peloton have spacers.....so you know the exact measurments? Is that what you're telling me? Is....let's say 1 inch ok (for sake of argument) but if you go hmmmm 1 1/4 inch.....beep ... you've entered the "your bike doesn't fit zone"???? Is this what you're telling me? Where did you get this information from.... Newtons Law of Fitting?
    Look man....I'm not trying to insult you...but sometimes objective reality has to be introduced. You CANNOT possible know whether a bike fits a person by just looking at their bike champ...it cannot be done.... I know you really want to be the guru on this...I know you really want to be right....but don't kid yourself.

    You want to know the real secret to how to fit someone on a bike?.........ask them how it feels......

    It is completely possible for two people with the exact same measurments to get on a bike, and one of them not like it. ... There are so many variables regarding things as subtle as conformation.......how flexible a person is? That's a great variable......top tube length will be quite different between a flexible person vs. a person who is not.... Some people have crazy long legs in proportion to their arms or torso...which could very possibly make their seat post visually seem askew to their top tube........I COULD GO ON AND ON........so let's not argue...IF you have an opinion fine...but at least realize that it is just an opinion, and there are too many professionals and laymen alike that will find fault with your ideas.





    Quote Originally Posted by Zonic Man
    No one in the pro peleton has that many spacers. Fact.

    You can tell quite a bit looking at a spacer stack and the amount of seatpost one is showing.
    There's nothing like having the world under your wheels......

  24. #24
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    Thanks everyone.

    OneGearGuy, are you doing the Fontana Icycle Race by any chance?

  25. #25
    simply me
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    While there is no 'magic' spacer height, you should note that most (all) carbon fork manufacturers recommend not going higher that 3cm. The stack height on the bike looks like it is at that limit. This not only provides for a more flexy front end but also limits just how much higher the bars can go.

    To lifit the bars any higher would require a + rise stem and when combined with a spacer stack of 3cm just says 'my bike is too small'... No problems going lower with the bars, but an experienced shop rat/rider will know just what drop they can handle and have a frame designed around this fact. It would be usual for a correctly fitted bike to initially have a spacer stack of around 1- 1.5 cm so you can go both higher and lower without a lot of effort.

  26. #26
    Jed Peters
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneGearGuy
    no sh!t, captain obvious. no one in the pro peleton pays for their equipment, or maintains it. when you cut your steerer tube off, it's gone. and you cannot go back to a taller position without buying a new fork. pros can switch around for FREE. IMO, if you don't keep a bit of extra steerer, you are making a bad mistake when it comes to future adjustability. just because your bike is custom doesn't mean you won't need to make some changes down the road...
    hop off your high horse and try to understand that this guy is an experienced rider and shop rat- and this is not his first bike and this is how he likes it. now go out and ride!


    obviously, you can't.

    sweet bike, low cel. wish i had one just like it, but with a compact FSA crankset...
    makes a 12-25 cassette really great for the mountains (i live in Asheville, NC).
    What part of "custom" bike do you not understand? (just like the pros).

    That bike was "built" for him. Albeit with a too-short headtube.

    I was a shop rat and an experienced rider as well, and I put my trust in IF to make a bike that was custom and would "fit" me as well, based on my measurements. Fact is they goofed on my bike as well. Too many spacers, too big of a stack.

    Very common on "custom" IFs that I've seen lately. Fact is, they are turning out too many bikes that are poorly fitted.

    Now, is is LowCel's fault? Partially, for not checking off the measurements correctly. Is it IF's fault? Partially, for not getting the fitting correctly.

    Edit: While I can also tell a lot about the spacer stack and the seatpost showing, I can further tell a ton about a rider from the gearing that they are riding. Care to debate that?
    Last edited by Zonic Man; 12-27-2004 at 11:27 AM.

  27. #27
    Jed Peters
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    Quote Originally Posted by bostonkiwi
    While there is no 'magic' spacer height, you should note that most (all) carbon fork manufacturers recommend not going higher that 3cm. The stack height on the bike looks like it is at that limit. This not only provides for a more flexy front end but also limits just how much higher the bars can go.

    To lifit the bars any higher would require a + rise stem and when combined with a spacer stack of 3cm just says 'my bike is too small'... No problems going lower with the bars, but an experienced shop rat/rider will know just what drop they can handle and have a frame designed around this fact. It would be usual for a correctly fitted bike to initially have a spacer stack of around 1- 1.5 cm so you can go both higher and lower without a lot of effort.
    This is EXACTLY what I've been talking about, and it's too bad that IF and LowCel didn't make sure of this to begin with.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zonic Man
    What part of "custom" bike do you not understand? (just like the pros).

    That bike was "built" for him. Albeit with a too-short headtube.

    I was a shop rat and an experienced rider as well, and I put my trust in IF to make a bike that was custom and would "fit" me as well, based on my measurements. Fact is they goofed on my bike as well. Too many spacers, too big of a stack.

    Very common on "custom" IFs that I've seen lately. Fact is, they are turning out too many bikes that are poorly fitted.

    Now, is is LowCel's fault? Partially, for not checking off the measurements correctly. Is it IF's fault? Partially, for not getting the fitting correctly.

    Well......I'm glad it is partially my fault for getting the bike that I wanted.

    "Too-short headtube" - Opinion's vary. Five or ten years from now I'll order my next frame the exact same way.

    Everyone feel free to continue argueing, the thing is I have the bike that I have always wanted and I wouldn't change a thing.

    Argue and try to convince me that I have a bike that doesn't fit as much as you want, it won't change a thing. I LOVE MY IF!!!!!!!!!

  29. #29
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    Edit: While I can also tell a lot about the spacer stack and the seatpost showing, I can further tell a ton about a rider from the gearing that they are riding. Care to debate that?
    Nope, I couldn't care less what kind of rider anyone on here thinks I am. All I care about is that I am out there enjoying myself.

    This is EXACTLY what I've been talking about, and it's too bad that IF and LowCel didn't make sure of this to begin with.
    All I did was make sure that I got the bike I wanted.

    It's all pretty simple......everyone should ride what they enjoy riding. Who care's if it is everyone else's ideal bike????? I don't.

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    hmmmmm

    Ok --- let's just say that carbon fork makers have a 3cm rule ..... I'll give you that...Even though I don't know if it's true or not. But I became curious...... 3cm is only an inch..ok a little over an inch.... I just looked at 30 something pictures of pro riders....it seems they all have at least around an inch...I mean that is pretty small..... Even though the Holiest of holies (Armstrong) may be breaking this rule (with more)....also it's REALLY hard to tell by a photograph exactly how high a stack is...your only reference really is the stem....anyway it's still a guess. So when I'm racing and riding I see a lot of litespeeds, serrotas etc.... Custom bikes that seem to have high stack heights....but COMPACT frames in particular.....so maybe the confusion is really the difference between custom and stock bikes...but what is the real difference if the bikes feels great on 4 hour rides..? If you are buying a compact framed bike...like a giant, lapierrer, scott etc.... unless everything is just perfect you're going to have some spacers....but then why do custom companies still follow this line of thinking??? Is their something that you 2 know that everyone else doesn't?? The 3 cm rule is a valid point I will concede, but is this more to protect themselves in case of failure or does it really have anything to do with bike fit? Because we know there are a lot of caveats on bikes that are there simply to protect themselves.
    There's nothing like having the world under your wheels......

  31. #31
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    gearing

    Yes...also Guru Zonic...knower of all things...the isness of is. Please tell me what Kind of a rider a person is who uses let's say a 12-27 - 53-39 gearing...Just so I'm not guilty of setting you up I will admit that I read an article where Cunego said he used a 12-27 in some of the hills of the giro......I use a 12-27 for climbing myself.....Wouldn't you have to know a riders cadence tendencies, what type of terrain they ride, wattage etc.....to know what kind of rider they are by gearing?........are you on acid?.....how could you possible know this......I swear I'm not trying to make a fool of you.
    There's nothing like having the world under your wheels......

  32. #32
    simply me
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    Whether or not the 3cm stack height limit is arbitrary, it does exist. Given that with a full custom fame you have a multitude of options why would you knowingly have a frame designed to need the max number of spacers to get the bars to the height you usually ride with?

    Litespeeds are not typically custom nor are a lot of pro's bikes, to get the bars to the height that is required they have no option, they must either user + rise stems or a number of spacers.

    The 3cm stack height has nothing to do with 'fit' it is simply a limit recommended by most manufacturers. Good 'fit' is achieved by the correct placement of bars and saddle both vertically and horizontally. When designing a custom frame it is usually done to ensure that the limits are not reached. This is the whole idea of a custom frame and often why they are chosen over stock varieties...


    Quote Originally Posted by Tbonius
    Ok --- let's just say that carbon fork makers have a 3cm rule ..... I'll give you that...Even though I don't know if it's true or not. But I became curious...... 3cm is only an inch..ok a little over an inch.... I just looked at 30 something pictures of pro riders....it seems they all have at least around an inch...I mean that is pretty small..... Even though the Holiest of holies (Armstrong) may be breaking this rule (with more)....also it's REALLY hard to tell by a photograph exactly how high a stack is...your only reference really is the stem....anyway it's still a guess. So when I'm racing and riding I see a lot of litespeeds, serrotas etc.... Custom bikes that seem to have high stack heights....but COMPACT frames in particular.....so maybe the confusion is really the difference between custom and stock bikes...but what is the real difference if the bikes feels great on 4 hour rides..? If you are buying a compact framed bike...like a giant, lapierrer, scott etc.... unless everything is just perfect you're going to have some spacers....but then why do custom companies still follow this line of thinking??? Is their something that you 2 know that everyone else doesn't?? The 3 cm rule is a valid point I will concede, but is this more to protect themselves in case of failure or does it really have anything to do with bike fit? Because we know there are a lot of caveats on bikes that are there simply to protect themselves.
    Last edited by bostonkiwi; 12-27-2004 at 12:18 PM.

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    so.......the argument

    Is really over just custom fitting.......stock bikes just don't come into play regarding this argument.....you fit what you can to your body..... I still have a little bit of problem with the spacer vs. head tube idea.... The number one concern in my opinion is top tube length with road bike fitting......so all you and zonic man are saying is that the Head tube should be "large enough" so that you don't need too many spacers...correct? I think the flaw in this (compact frames especially) is that when you Lengthen the head tube you in turn 1. Lengthen the distance that separates top and bottom tube (on head tube).......and to further this you also have to then deal with the geometry that trails back to the seat tubes...from the head tube correct? I could be incorrect but I can see the problem in having a compact frame for a guy with long legs and short arms...and having weird tube lines that run from the seat tube to the head tube..just so he can have this big head tube, on a small bike........am I going anywhere with this? I would assume that even though custom fitting is "custom fitting" there are still parameters that builders work within regarding stiffnes and torsional flex etc........correct?..... Hey I could be completely wrong about this...but the Sevens I see ARE custom..because I know the guys racing them...and yes..they have at least an inch or more in spacers........but then I am just guessing.. because I didn't break out the ruler....(I also didn't have the audacity to tell them that their bike doesn't fit them) there are definitely some spacers there though.


    Quote Originally Posted by bostonkiwi
    Whether or not the 3cm stack height limit is arbitrary, it does exist. Given that with a full custom fame you have a multitude of options why would you knowingly have a frame designed to need the max number of spacers to get the bars to the height you usually ride with?

    Litespeeds are not typically custom nor are a lot of pro's bikes, to get the bars to the height that is required they have no option, they must either user + rise stems or a number of spacers.

    The 3cm stack height has nothing to do with 'fit' it is simply a limit recommended by most manufacturers. Good 'fit' is achieved by the correct placement of bars and saddle both vertically and horizontally. When designing a custom frame it is usually done to ensure that the limits are not reached. This is the whole idea of a custom frame and often why they are chosen over stock varieties...
    There's nothing like having the world under your wheels......

  34. #34
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    agreed, I'm sure this bike fits him fine and I doubt the spacers make much of a difference, but it is strange that it would NEED this many spacers on a custom frame.

    Unless he asked for it like that it seems like IFs fault

  35. #35
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    I asked for the head tube to be 1 cm larger than the head tube was on my previous bike. IF did exactly what I asked them to do.

    If I need to do anything it would be to get rid of the stem with negative rise and remove a spacer. The only reason that I don't is because the bike fits now, why change anything?

    To quote a wise man "if it isn't broke don't fix it".

  36. #36
    Jed Peters
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tbonius
    Yes...also Guru Zonic...knower of all things...the isness of is. Please tell me what Kind of a rider a person is who uses let's say a 12-27 - 53-39 gearing...Just so I'm not guilty of setting you up I will admit that I read an article where Cunego said he used a 12-27 in some of the hills of the giro......I use a 12-27 for climbing myself.....Wouldn't you have to know a riders cadence tendencies, what type of terrain they ride, wattage etc.....to know what kind of rider they are by gearing?........are you on acid?.....how could you possible know this......I swear I'm not trying to make a fool of you.
    I know that only someone who's a racer doesn't need a 27 unless they are climbing to Bormio 2000 at 180km into a 21 day stage race.

    I know that the highest gearing needed on the women's pro team I help manage is a 26. And these are women.

    I know that where LowCel lives in WV there are not that big of mountains.

    I can surmise from the dinner plate on the rear of his bike, then, and the mid to long cage rear derailleur that he's a recreational rider.

    All of which is fine, I'm just answering your question as to what I can tell about a rider by his setup.

  37. #37
    Jed Peters
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tbonius
    I think the flaw in this (compact frames especially) is that when you Lengthen the head tube you in turn 1. Lengthen the distance that separates top and bottom tube (on head tube).......and to further this you also have to then deal with the geometry that trails back to the seat tubes...from the head tube correct? I could be incorrect but I can see the problem in having a compact frame for a guy with long legs and short arms...and having weird tube lines that run from the seat tube to the head tube..just so he can have this big head tube, on a small bike........am I going anywhere with this? I would assume that even though custom fitting is "custom fitting" there are still parameters that builders work within regarding stiffnes and torsional flex etc........correct?..... Hey I could be completely wrong about this...but the Sevens I see ARE custom..because I know the guys racing them...and yes..they have at least an inch or more in spacers........but then I am just guessing.. because I didn't break out the ruler....(I also didn't have the audacity to tell them that their bike doesn't fit them) there are definitely some spacers there though.
    You can tweak the headtube length and not have it look funny by doing different "slope" to the top tube and make it longer.

  38. #38
    giddy up!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zonic Man
    I know that only someone who's a racer doesn't need a 27 unless they are climbing to Bormio 2000 at 180km into a 21 day stage race.

    I know that the highest gearing needed on the women's pro team I help manage is a 26. And these are women.

    I know that where LowCel lives in WV there are not that big of mountains.

    I can surmise from the dinner plate on the rear of his bike, then, and the mid to long cage rear derailleur that he's a recreational rider.

    All of which is fine, I'm just answering your question as to what I can tell about a rider by his setup.
    I hope you're kidding with this.....as I'd hate to think you actually believe yourself.

    B
    www.thepathbikeshop.com

  39. #39
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    hmmmmm armstrong.......

    test rode some of the climbs in the giro and he also used a 27 on the back.......I assume by test riding that he wasn't "180km into a 21 day stage race" ...... I'm not sure if I can really take you seriously anymore at this point......you are too much "by rote" regarding your ideas about cycling.....you would have probably been the guy to tell Jimi Hendrix that he was totally playing his guitar wrong.... You know sometimes people and their pride get the best of them...I saw some of the pros in the amstel gold race just getting ripped off the back on some of the short ultra steep climbs..... I'm sure they would have taken a gear more reasonable at that point....but maybe they were already using 27...who knows. I'm just not sure that you know what you're talking about......pro team manager or not......oh and incidentally - anyone who doesn't get paid to ride. i.e. a PRO is a recreational rider.......sheesh.....except maybe some pro mountain bikers.... har har har


    Quote Originally Posted by Zonic Man
    I know that only someone who's a racer doesn't need a 27 unless they are climbing to Bormio 2000 at 180km into a 21 day stage race.

    I know that the highest gearing needed on the women's pro team I help manage is a 26. And these are women.

    I know that where LowCel lives in WV there are not that big of mountains.

    I can surmise from the dinner plate on the rear of his bike, then, and the mid to long cage rear derailleur that he's a recreational rider.

    All of which is fine, I'm just answering your question as to what I can tell about a rider by his setup.
    There's nothing like having the world under your wheels......

  40. #40
    Jed Peters
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tbonius
    test rode some of the climbs in the giro and he also used a 27 on the back.......I assume by test riding that he wasn't "180km into a 21 day stage race" ...... I'm not sure if I can really take you seriously anymore at this point......you are too much "by rote" regarding your ideas about cycling.....you would have probably been the guy to tell Jimi Hendrix that he was totally playing his guitar wrong.... You know sometimes people and their pride get the best of them...I saw some of the pros in the amstel gold race just getting ripped off the back on some of the short ultra steep climbs..... I'm sure they would have taken a gear more reasonable at that point....but maybe they were already using 27...who knows. I'm just not sure that you know what you're talking about......pro team manager or not......oh and incidentally - anyone who doesn't get paid to ride. i.e. a PRO is a recreational rider.......sheesh.....except maybe some pro mountain bikers.... har har har
    Was lance cruising or was he in a race situation?

    FYI: at T-Mobile, George Hincapie never used more than a 25. That race has perhaps the steepest climbs on the UCI calendar.

  41. #41
    Trail rider and racer
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    This is getting a bit laughable.

    Drawing conclusions about what sort of a rider a person is by their cassette choice is out right silly. For example I use a 11-21 Cassette in a hilly region but would hardly classify myself has an Armstrong or even the strongest amateur. Exactly what conclusion one can draw from me using a 11-21 without seeing me riding or seeing my results is out right ridiculous.

    As for the bike fit issue, forgive me for being less then eloquent but, opinions are like asses; we all have one and they are so very different, so perhaps its just best we all agree to disagree eh?
    Trev!

  42. #42
    Cold. Blue. Steel.
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    hopefully

    Quote Originally Posted by LowCel
    Thanks everyone.

    OneGearGuy, are you doing the Fontana Icycle Race by any chance?
    i am planning on it- hopefully it all works out. i will be on my SS with some Kenda Nevegal 2.35 Stick-E tires (i am going to buy myself a new years present and get those meats). i rode it over the summer with Python Air lights and nearly died a few times!
    are you going to go?

    boy, this thread is really something. you post a magnificent rig and look what happens!
    Spinning and Grinning...

  43. #43
    Jed Peters
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor!
    This is getting a bit laughable.

    Drawing conclusions about what sort of a rider a person is by their cassette choice is out right silly. For example I use a 11-21 Cassette in a hilly region but would hardly classify myself has an Armstrong or even the strongest amateur. Exactly what conclusion one can draw from me using a 11-21 without seeing me riding or seeing my results is out right ridiculous.

    As for the bike fit issue, forgive me for being less then eloquent but, opinions are like asses; we all have one and they are so very different, so perhaps its just best we all agree to disagree eh?
    Not really on either point, Trevor.

    1. You can draw conclusions about cassette type and where a person's from. Example: West Virginia, 13-29 cassette. Take that vs. George Hincapie, who uses a 12-25 in equally hilly south carolina. He doesn't need the 29, hence, stronger. And there's nothing wrong with being a recreational rider, damn if I'm not one, BIG TIME. I need a 29!

    2. Bike fit: Bikes either fit or they don't. Believe me I wanted to put my head in the sand and argued on these very forums about my bike fitting properly, when in fact it didn't. And people told me the same thing. LowCel's bike shoulda been built with a longer headtube...that's a fact.

  44. #44
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    i just learned something

    Quote Originally Posted by Zonic Man
    Well, when you order a custom bike, they ask you the type of stem you want to run (or should).

    If they know that, they know your saddle height based (roughly) on your measurements, etc. etc., there should be NO spacers (or, actually, 1-1.5cm of spacers is okay) or very few mm's.

    The frame SHOULD have been built for you accordingly. That means no big stack with a short headtube.

    It took me sending back my bike to get the correct headtube length on my IF and getting a new one. To Indy's credit, they were TOTALLY amenable to getting me set up in the correct fit, and were fantastic guys to work with.
    I didn't know this - but it does make sense.
    After trying 4 different stems up and down a long steerer tube on my Peyto I ended up with the stem length that I said I'd use in my 'interview' and it felt most comfortable right above the steerer tube.

  45. #45
    strip it down
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    uh huh

    ...you are right.... I must have been seriously bored at work, or just plain got duped into debating with a guy who's spent too many days on the business end of a crack pipe........It's not that we agree to disagree...everyone on this board is pretty much in agreement accept "the zonic man" wooooo - hoooo. It's simply that the guy is just wrong in what he is saying...but when you are that wrong - there is no going back.......without an outright capitulation..... So he has to stick to his guns...as they say. This bike fit issue was discussed on this board a while back and someone immediately posted a pros bike with a ridiculously high seat post...probably a 4 inch drop to his bar, and lots o spacers......Everyone kind of shut up after that. Actually I think it was when someone tried to tell trevor that his bike didn't fit him................by just looking at the bike?.........oh well....lots of people use these boards to get info - it doesn't hurt to be the voice of reason occasionally.
    There's nothing like having the world under your wheels......

  46. #46
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    ullrich with all this seatpost showing... off course he dont knows how to adjust his bike..



    armstrong on the other hand doesnt know **** about bike fit too.... his head tube is too short! look how many spacers!!!!!




    wow!! look! Michele Scarponi's Specialized E5 with 39x28 gear! stupid...


    wow!! look!Gilberto Simoni's 38x28 gear too! what a joke!!


    wowwww!!! Yaroslav Popovych's C-40 with 39x30 gear!! thats ridiculous! he must be a recreational rider..


    just like marco pantani....39x28


    and dario frigo... all recreational riders.. george hincapie can smoke all of them with his 25 cog..





    Last edited by carlos; 12-27-2004 at 06:11 PM.
    hey
    ho
    lets go!

  47. #47
    Alright, let's ride!
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    Ok, just measured the spacers under my stem. There is 1 5/16" of spacers. If you convert that to metric it is 3.334 cm. I guess that all of this argueing is because I am over the "limit" by .334 cm. Basicly, I am have 1/8" too many spacers. Oh my God, what was I thinking?!?!?!?!



    Now, for the cassette issue. I'm sorry that I am not as strong of a rider as some of you think I should be. At the beginning of the year I went through about three months of rehab on my shoulder from a mtb crash. During this time I learned how easy it is to set on the couch and eat Frosties. By the end of this past racing season I weighed close to 30 pounds more than I did the previous race season. The frosties, married life, and a new office job showed me how easy it is to gain weight. Anyway, I started at the gym three weeks ago and so far I have lost 12 pounds. I am on my way. One of my goals is to have a smaller cassette on by next season. I am also hoping to do a five hour century. So far my best time on a century has been 5 hours 22 minutes solo. Hopefully by the time I reach my goals I will be a strong enough rider to be accepted.

    Now, I'm not sure where anyone got the idea that WV does not warrant climbing gears. Most people around here are either using triples or compact cranksets. Rather than going either of those routes I chose to go with the 29t cassette so that once I got back into shape I could easily change back to more "worthy" gearing.

    In short, I am sorry that some of you do not approve of my bike. The good news is that you will never have to ride it anyway.
    Last edited by LowCel; 12-27-2004 at 06:30 PM.

  48. #48
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    "My cat's breath smells like cat food." Does everyone realized that the original topic of this thread was about a guy showing off his road bike?
    Bikes are my time machines.

  49. #49
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    IF CJ Ti

    Is this for real? First, that is a great bike Low cel and who cares what anyone else thinks. Second, I have a CJ Ti and spacers and even more on my Ti Deluxe.. I race, I'm an amatuer on a good day and I've owned almost everything made from ti and my IF's feel and ride better than anything else I've owned including Seven and Serotta..
    Attached Images Attached Images

  50. #50
    Alright, let's ride!
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    capn - First I just wanted to say that is a beautiful bike! Next, I just wanted to say thank you for the compliment and support. I'm still in shock that all of this has happened.

    I haven't been on mtbr in a while, I have been pretty busy up until recently. Once I finally get time to come back all of this happens. I guess there just aren't any trolls around right now for people to flame so some people figured I would be a good target.

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