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  1. #1
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    Lightest (in 2 ways) HID 24hr light system

    Just seen on
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?...004/news/nov30
    The new Vicious Power arc and was wondering when there would be a review of it or if someone has ridden with it?
    I saw a sponsored 24hr rider win a recent event here in Australia with the system and it is insane how featherweight it is compared to others on the market yet still puts out more light!
    Just wondering if any one has got one yet.
    Cheers
    Filth

  2. #2
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    Sounds cool, how much do they cost?

    Although I'm sure there is lighter systems, or atleast close.

    Ye, Josh street and Saul Britton are riding them, what ever happened to Saul Britton? 1 year ago, he's all you ever heard. Now, I haven't heard anything about him.

  3. #3
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    $800? I was sold up until then... Looks like a sweet package, though... I'm still trying to work up the gusto to spend ~$400 on an Arc Li-Ion, but I may end up settling for the solo logic, li-ion kit. I'm not going to be doing any 24hr racing, just want to extend usable riding time.
    "I've come to believe that common sense is not that common" - Matt Timmerman

  4. #4
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    Same here.

    I'm mostly considering HID to extend ride time. Most people I've ridden with that use HID run them on the lowest setting and they are still brighter than my halogen setup. At that setting they seem perfect and most get at least 4 hours of runtime.

    The Lupine Edison looked nice until I saw the price too. $800 for a fancy flashlight is INSANE! I realize the bulbs aren't cheap, nor are the batteries, but these prices are still way out of line. No different than the latest and greatest fork prices but at least those drop drastically when new models come out!

  5. #5
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    Costs are in Aussie Dollars

    When you take into account the goods and services tax of 10 % which is not applicable to exports and convert to US dollars this number is closer to 550 USD .

    With a headlight that weighs just 80 grams I wonder if they would be interested in reusing the HID from my Niterider Storm and rebuilding it into their system.

    By the way The Niterider Storm goes for 620 USD whilst the Cyclone goes for about 780 USD here in Australia.

  6. #6
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    Does anybody know the specifications of the light, such as colour temperature etc? I'd like to compare it to the likes of my Lupine Edison.
    Trev!

  7. #7
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    It doesn't beat the simplicity of my Lypine Edison 5 system. No extra boxes and easy mounting without brackets or anything. Mine weigh 479g, light enough for me.
    I would give these guys a couple of years and see how they improve their product, for now it looks a little "home made". I don't thing they have made any improvements over what is available at the moment.
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  8. #8
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    Cateye is supposed to be coming out with a new system that was tested at the Moab 24 hour. I haven't seen anything about it other than what has been posted in the Endurance forum.

  9. #9
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    I can only speak for my experiences with my Edison 10 (with an extra small 5.5Ah Li-Ion battery).

    When I bought my Eddy 10 over 3-yrs ago, it had everything I needed for solo 24-hr racing: incredibly long burn-times (8-hrs on low!), short charge times, light-weight (lightweight Li-Ion battery), reliable, durable, etc. Over the years and after logging way too many night hours, it's remained a steady light that I can rely on for racing, training and just riding along and has never given me an ounce of problems.
    Ride Hard,
    Mike B. (MCM# 7.77)
    http://www.one-speed.com

  10. #10
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    Why doesn't Lupine put the on/off switch in the light case?

    I like how L & M has the switch on top of the light case. Less stuff to tie down for a cleaner set-up. It makes using the light on a helmet mount simple. It's very easy to find the switch! Is it hard to find the switch on the Lupine when helmet mounted?

    I really like the long run times of both Lupine and VP. It is also nice that they aren't so picky about batteries. L & M has really made a mess of things with all their battery incompatibilities. Proprietary batteries suck! I hate it when manufacturers do this. I won't by another L & M light because of this.

    I don't like the separate "box" on the VP either. If I understand this setup correctly, this means there is something like 50-100V on the wire between the light head and box. With a helmet mount this wire would be running against your body in the rain. Wire goes bad and Zap! Ouch! I would think lower voltage would be safer in this respect. I wonder if there will be problems with getting the VP light UL certified in the US.

  11. #11
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    8 hours with 5.5 AH?

    I don't think that's right.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by B R H
    I don't think that's right.
    You are right...I'm using an Edison 10 and an extra 5.5 Ah Li-Ion battery. The Edison 10 gets 8-hrs on low, 5-hrs on high. The Edison with the smaller 5.5Ah battery gets 4-hrs on low and 2.5-hrs on high. Sorry for the confusion.
    Ride Hard,
    Mike B. (MCM# 7.77)
    http://www.one-speed.com

  13. #13
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    Large battery.

    Would the large battery be a pain to carry in a jersey pocket? I prefer helmet mount and 4 hours run time is nice, but I would prefer 6 or 8 for the safety margin and the ability to use "high" for portions of my night rides.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by B R H
    Would the large battery be a pain to carry in a jersey pocket?
    Not really. I just pull the battery out of the water bottle casing and stow it in my jersey pocket or CamelBak. This battery is just two of the smaller 5.5Ah batteries heat-wrapped together.
    Ride Hard,
    Mike B. (MCM# 7.77)
    http://www.one-speed.com

  15. #15
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    Battery bombs.

    Do you feel comfortable having what is essentially a bomb so close to your spine without a ballistic case? The energy densities of these batteries is getting pretty high. I don't think I would put one in my jersey without at least a nylon case. Does it keep your back nice and warm?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by B R H
    Do you feel comfortable having what is essentially a bomb so close to your spine without a ballistic case? The energy densities of these batteries is getting pretty high. I don't think I would put one in my jersey without at least a nylon case. Does it keep your back nice and warm?
    Oh, I'm using a nylon case for the large battery....similar to the one found on the 5.5Ah battery. It's from my ol' VistaLite set.
    Ride Hard,
    Mike B. (MCM# 7.77)
    http://www.one-speed.com

  17. #17
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    I had a look at the web page in my spare time and whilst the light may be light weight, it doesn't appear to provide any good benefits over the other lights on the market. IMHO the burn times are a little low too - particularly when you compare it to either the Lupine Edison 5 or 10.

    For the price they are selling at I can think of a number of better computer options out there in the market place.

    Cheers
    Trevor!
    (As for my Lupine - I cant wait for winter again in Australia so I can take my Edison 10 out for a good long night ride.)
    Trev!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1speed_Mike
    Not really. I just pull the battery out of the water bottle casing and stow it in my jersey pocket or CamelBak. This battery is just two of the smaller 5.5Ah batteries heat-wrapped together.
    It is quite surprising how small the 'big' battery really is. The bottle it's enclosed in is so disproportionate to the size of the battery inside.

    I can fit the big battery in a small case inside my Hydrapak Air scoop Pro, and that is a small pack indeed.
    Trev!

  19. #19
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    There have been a few prototypes floating about this year, but they were having trouble with suppliers for a couple of their components. As mentioned, I think Saul Britton, Josh Street and a couple of others have been racing on the prototypes with great success.


    bike_freak - I think he's still winning everything, it's just everyone is so used to it now...... *yawn*


    Saul Britton:

    Solo winner: Kona 24hr 2004
    Solo winner: Gravity 12hr 2003, 2004
    Solo winner: Sydney 24hr 2004
    Solo winner: Felcrag 24hr 2003, 2004
    Pairs winner: 12hrs of Darkness 2004 (no solo category)
    Solo winner: Sydney 12hr 2003


    All is good now though, and they are now in full production. I know little about the light itself, but from what I've heard it sounds like a good setup for endurance racing.

    $800 AUS though, Ouch!! Fair enough you get a fair bit with it, and their chargers are supposed to be awesome, but it's a little expensive..... I guess aussie Lupine Owners and the like are spending around that kind of money for their systems though. It would be interesting to see some beam shots, or even better, a unit in real life.


    With a headlight that weighs just 80 grams I wonder if they would be interested in reusing the HID from my Niterider Storm and rebuilding it into their system.
    mcoccia - the only reason it is so light (apart from a carbon shell rather than aluminium) is because all of the elctronics that are usually housed with the lamp head are in a seperate housing.......


    I think I recall that there was a small review of a prototype in the first edition of the aussie based "Enduro" magazine. Will scan if I find it.


    http://www.viciouspower.com/

    http://viciouspower.com/ViciousArc.htm


    O.K, fair enough, the system is pretty light, but there are a lot of other systems out there that are in the same ball-park in terms of wheight, power output, and burn time.

    The wheight listed for the vicious is only with a small capacity 200 gram Li-ion pack that is only good for 2 1/2 hours on full light output. A 400gram pack will give you 5 hrs or so. That really isn't anything special.

    In fact depending on battery choice, I know of a system that is roughly the same wheight that sports an extra 2 1/2 hours of burn time (yes 5 hours) with the same 200gram battery, or 7 1/2 hours off the same 400 gram pack...

    The light that I'm reffering to is the Nightlightning Endurenz, check it out, the beam shots just don't do it justice though.........

    http://www.nightlightning.co.nz/

    http://www.nightlightning.co.nz/multisporters.htm



    All in all, the Vicious is a solid, light-wheight little unit, which seems to be of resonable quality, but really it doesn't offer any real advantage as far as light output or wheight, let alone burn time, over current lights on the market.

    Another note too, this light isn't availiable to those outside Aussie and New Zealand as of yet, although there are plans in place to launch it world wide early next year.

    Cheers, Dave.

  20. #20
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    Australian spring.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor!
    (As for my Lupine - I cant wait for winter again in Australia so I can take my Edison 10 out for a good long night ride.)
    You mean it doesn't get dark in Australia this time of year?

  21. #21
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    LOL - I don't think Trevor is quite nocturnal yet, although by the sounds of things he is close!! It's dark around 9:00pm here at the moment. Leave around eight for a bit of a warm up, and you've got all night for plenty of fun!!

    It starts to get light at 6:00am..... plenty of time to test burn times!!

    Cheers, Dave

  22. #22
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    Very good reports from users of Vicious Arc

    Have spoken to a few people who have recently purchased the Vicious Arc and the reports are all very favorable. The units come both handle bar and helmet mountable including a handle bar mount for the "electronics box". With the helmet mount the belt clip for the electronics mounts very nicely on a hydration pack shoulder strap in clear view and easy to find with the battery safely tucked away. No one I spoke to has had problems with run time ans Saul runs two small batteries cycling between the two for the duration of the night.
    Also on offer is customisation options so it would be worth contacting them if you already have the WA HID bulb from another system. One person I spoke to had a system customised to their own battery system and a 6 degree bulb for road riding.
    The systems are C-tick compliant already so I dare say they will be on sale in the US soon.
    In terms of looking a bit home made every one I spoke to said these are very different units to the field trial units that have been out there with a very professional finish now and certainly better then the cheap heat shrink used on the wiring for the Lupine. I suppose its testament to the guys at VP. They could have rushed in like every one else and profited from the HID boom but instead they did a lot of field testing. Seems the first units were out 2 years ago!
    The last point that I never thought of until it was pointed out to me is that the light heads reduced weight means it doesnít shake around on the helmet so the light stays where you point it.
    So Iíll be talking to "Mrs Clause" about this being under the tree next week!!! ;-)
    Thanks for all the feedback every body it helped me ask the right questions as lighting can be such a personal thing and websites cant always be trusted.
    Cheers

  23. #23
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    Thanks for the info, and let us know how you go with it!! I think we'll expect a review when you've done a few rides on it.

    I know it's a little off-topic, and I don't want to start a war, but I noticed with interest the comment "homemade" being made about a few different brands, and not just in this thread. I'm just wondering where you would draw the line between "homemade" and "handmade"?? Are we saying that a light that looks handbuilt is of lesser quality then one built by a machine??

    I know of a couple of brands where the whole light is made by hand, some of the housings are made on a lathe, others squashed into shape in a custom made rig, etc, and while it does have that look of being made by hand, their finish is of superb quality, and attention to detail is outstanding.

    I know which one I'd rather.

    Food for thought??

    Cheers, Dave.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by B R H
    You mean it doesn't get dark in Australia this time of year?
    Funnily enough being located down south in Tasmania (42 degrees south of the equator) means that during the middle of winter one can go and ride without lights till around 9:15/30 which is a great pleasure.
    Trev!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor!
    Funnily enough being located down south in Tasmania (42 degrees south of the equator) means that during the middle of winter one can go and ride without lights till around 9:15/30 which is a great pleasure.
    Don't you mean during of Summer?

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