• 11-24-2012
    s4gobabygo
    Klein Pulse: Help me fill in some gaps
    i'm just about ready to start my winter project, and was hoping to get some ideas for parts i'm still missing. i'd love to come in under 19 lbs, but i'm not completely sure i'm on track.

    here's what i have:
    1997 klein pulse (trek) frame, 1310g
    2006 rock shox sid race (rebuilding now, should weigh about 1300g wet)
    ritchey wcs 4-axis stem - 124g
    ritchey wcs carbon flat bar - 131g
    ritchey wcs ergo grips (cut) - 22g
    grip shift x-ray 8-speed shifters - 114g
    xtr 950 rapid rise rear derailleur (tuned) - 194g
    xtr 950 11-32 ti 8-speed cassette - 228g
    xtr 950 hubs / mavic 217 cd / dt revolution - 1589g
    schwalbe nobby nic 26x2.1 - 999g
    kmc x9sl chain uncut, maybe 250g depending on length
    selle italia slr fibra - 131g
    ritchey wcs paradigm pedals - 242g

    and what i still need:
    1-1/8 headset
    34.9 top pull front derailleur
    rim brakes / levers
    cables / housing
    cranks / rings / bottom bracket
    skewers
    31.6 seatpost / 34.9 clamp
  • 11-25-2012
    ranier
    Ditch the gears, rock the SS flag!

    you're welcome!
  • 11-25-2012
    Yogii
    Even if you are not at 19lbs getting lower will be $$. You have a nice list there already.
  • 11-25-2012
    s4gobabygo
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ranier View Post
    Ditch the gears, rock the SS flag!

    you're welcome!

    hah... it's time to rock the geared flag for me. i've been riding ss exclusively for over 5 years (not intentionally... i moved to a flatter area and haven't gotten around to rebuilding any of my geared bikes, so i've been riding the singlespeeds instead. yes, i've been THAT lazy)
  • 12-01-2012
    bridgestone14
    1 Attachment(s)
    Well Avid Ti or Avid Mag levers and brakes. They are pretty light and are not too expensive. I have a set on my Attitude and they are pretty sweet, and you can get ti springs and bolts for them off of toronto cycles.. I have a set of ceramic rims which are awesome. The brakes aren't too hard to find, the ceramic rims seem to be hard to come by these days though. Post some pics when you have them.
  • 12-01-2012
    bridgestone14
    I ended up going with a thomson stem because I couldn't get a light stem that wasn't flexy. Nokon housing is my favorite. For a headset, Extralite, makes some crazy light headsets. Crankbrothers makes a pretty light headset too if you want to go less exotic.
  • 12-03-2012
    29or6to4
    Just a nit picky FYI. Trek had nothing to do with Klein in 97'. Those were made by Gary K himself in WA. I had the same Pulse II. Miss that bike.

    Also if you want to go nuts. Pull the BB and axle and replace with ceramic BB and titanium axle.
  • 12-03-2012
    s4gobabygo
    it's not a pulse II (the version with internal cable routing... those stopped being made in 1996). this is a 1997 pulse race frame, which afaik had the rear triangle made by klein in wa, and a front triangle added on by trek.

    http://www.mtb-kataloge.de/Bikekatal.../Klein1997.pdf

    see page 12.

    as far as the hubs and bottom bracket, the xtr 950 (1996) hubs i have already use ti axles, but i don't yet have a bb (still looking for a crank/bb setup... any suggestions?)
  • 12-03-2012
    bridgestone14
    I have the barely used xt 8speed crankset from my attitude if you want to go old school. PM if you are interested. If price is no option then I would go with a phil wood bottom bracket. Phil Wood & Co.
    They also make a press in outboard bearing bottom bracket that will convert old klein's that have press in bottom brackets. What a cool company.
  • 12-03-2012
    s4gobabygo
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bridgestone14 View Post
    I have the barely used xt 8speed crankset from my attitude if you want to go old school. PM if you are interested. If price is no option then I would go with a phil wood bottom bracket. Phil Wood & Co.
    They also make a press in outboard bearing bottom bracket that will convert old klein's that have press in bottom brackets. What a cool company.

    that's an interesting idea... i wouldnt mind giving a nod to the era of the bike, as long as it's not going to end up costing me substantial weight, and i do have a pair of xt 737 cranks on another bike, so i know theyre not too heavy...

    145g - phil 108 ti bb (quoted from ww... WOULD THIS INCLUDE CUPS???)
    481g - xt 737 crank arms only (actual weight)
    91g - salsa 30t, shimano 42t & bolts (actual weight)
    717g total

    does that seem realistic?
  • 12-03-2012
    s4gobabygo
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bridgestone14 View Post
    I ended up going with a thomson stem because I couldn't get a light stem that wasn't flexy. Nokon housing is my favorite. For a headset, Extralite, makes some crazy light headsets. Crankbrothers makes a pretty light headset too if you want to go less exotic.

    thanks for the thoughtful replies, bridgestone, and nice bikes! sorry for the delayed followup. ive been doing some research on the avid ti and mag brakes, but the weights i'm getting are all over the place. i'm guessing there have been multiple generations of these things with varying weights?

    what about something like the kcnc vb6 or vb1? i imagine i'd lose a fair amount of braking performance in flex, but has anyone had significant experience with these? i don't see much on the forum here about them. i could live with cheesy, flexy brakes as long as they're not going to literally snap on me. it looks like there would be a net savings in the range of 100g between the kcnc setup and the lighter avid setups.

    i had the same experience with the carbon ritchey stem. it ended up on my road bike cause it was just too flexy. the aluminum wcs stem is lighter anyway. even more-so when i take the Ti bolts off my carbon one and put them on the Al one. that brings the Al stem down to a relatively nippy 114g.
  • 12-03-2012
    bridgestone14
    Having a ceramic rim goes a long way to good brake performance. Mine are ceramic rims with power cords and nokon cables and housing. The power cords get a bad rap but I really like them. I ended up sliding some standard nokon liners over the cables where they are clamped on and it went a long way to limit the fraying of the cable, and now my brake levers have an incredible feel.
    I have never tried the KCN brakes because I don't have that kind of cash for a bike I almost never ride. However, lots of folks on this forum have bought them and you can probably find some reviews with a search. My guess is you would see more flex in the seat stays then you would in the brake arms, not sure about their levers. As for the avid mags, I think I have an extra set of arms at the house I could weigh for you.
  • 12-10-2012
    bridgestone14
    I had some free time so I weighed those avid mags. They are 160 grams stock with no mounting bolts and 140 grams with ti hardware and springs. That is on my hanging scale. I don't have a tabletop scale. Looks like they are as light or lighter then the KCNC's.
  • 12-11-2012
    s4gobabygo
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bridgestone14 View Post
    I had some free time so I weighed those avid mags. They are 160 grams stock with no mounting bolts and 140 grams with ti hardware and springs. That is on my hanging scale. I don't have a tabletop scale. Looks like they are as light or lighter then the KCNC's.

    thanks for the update. the claims for kcnc are ~120g per brake, and 48g for the lever pair for an astonishing 288g (claimed) total. i see confirmation of the ~48g levers, but not the ~240g brakeset.

    that aside, i didn't realize avid mags were so close with hardware. i think i like that idea better, since i think it'll look more natural on the dated bike.

    as far as levers, i've always wanted a pair of pauls, and i thought they were light until i saw 48g levers!! pauls are more than double that, and avid mags are triple that!
  • 12-12-2012
    bridgestone14
    http://forums.mtbr.com/weight-weenie...ml#post3453939

    This is the best discussion on KCNC brakes and levers I could find.
  • 12-12-2012
    s4gobabygo
    thanks for the link. i didn't realize the levers had been around so long, so when i didn't see any results on page 1 of my search, i gave up.

    as far as the actual weights... HOLY $#!T! that's unbelievably light! that brings the total set of brakes and levers to ~222g give or take. a pair of avid mags and pauls levers would be more than 150g heavier! i'm sort of in disbelief that these kcnc brakes could be so light and not be totally unusable. looks like no major reliability concerns either, from what i've been able to find. as much as i was jumping on board with the avid/paul idea, i might HAVE to get these kcnc brakes now.
  • 12-12-2012
    bridgestone14
    http://forums.mtbr.com/weight-weenie...ck-517993.html

    Well there is this thread too, if you want another view of the brake system.
  • 12-12-2012
    bridgestone14
    As for a seatpost, I like Thomson's masterpiece posts and feel like they compete pretty well weight wise, ( 31.6 dia. x 350 mm 193 g) they are just never quite long enough for me. As for headsets I just tend to go chris king since I like the company. They are not the lightest though. I always wanted to try an extra lite headset, but never had a good project for one. Also Crank Brothers makes a pretty light headset, but I have never used one, and they get mixed reviews. Lastly I like to run Nokons and power cordz for housing and cords. The I-links are supposed to be a little lighter, but I like the looks of the nokons better. For skewers, I like my KCNC ones, but I would go with some extralite ones if I had the cash.
    I ride some pretty rough trails in Colorado so I tend to put durability and lack of maintenance above light weight.
    Alligator Cables-manufacturer of brake and control cables for the bicycle, motorcycle
    Nokon Housing - Sick Lines – mountain bike reviews, news, videos | Your comprehensive downhill and freeride mountain bike resource
    ++ directset cobaltsl :: crankbrothers.com ++
    The Head
    PowerCordz.com | Feel The Difference.
    Thomson | Masterpiece Seatpost Series
  • 12-12-2012
    s4gobabygo
    thanks again for the additional input. i've been using a crank bros opium headset on one of my other bikes for a while. its a cromo cup, and it's started to get some surface rust, but functionally, it's been perfect. i too am a king headset fan, but i'm getting as little boring there... seems like almost every build i do ends up with a king headset. i think the cobalt looks like a good choice, being essentially the same as my opium, minus the rust.

    a masterpiece is probably the safest bet for a seat post, and being somewhat era-appropriate, seems like an obvious choice. given that it'll be clamping a carbon-railed saddle, i'd also like to stay away from wire-cutterr style clamps, which i think makes the masterpiece the lightest available option, right?

    this will be my first real try at a weight weenie bike (at least since i've been gainfully employed and able to buy new parts, not drill out old ones), so i'm ready to make some concessions for weight. the crankset and the brakes are really the last remaining major choices. my spreadsheet has me just below 19 pounds given a 750g crankset and 350g brake system (excl. cables).

    seems i have a lot to learn about modern cables. i've never gone any fancier than a jagwire ripcord, and i know theres weight to be saved there.
  • 12-17-2012
    s4gobabygo
    New Build List (changes in bold)

    1997 klein pulse (trek) frame, 1310g
    1996 rock shox judy sl w/ englund TA cart., 1210g + grease
    crank bros cobalt sl headset - 66g
    syntace f99 - 102g
    easton ct2 flat bar - 121g

    ritchey wcs ergo grips (cut) - 22g
    kooka racha brake levers - 91g
    avid sd7 f&r w/ ti hardware kit - 314g

    grip shift x-ray 8-speed shifters - 114g
    race face next lp, real design ti bb, specialites ta double - 733g
    xtr 901 front derailleur - 117g

    xtr 950 rapid rise rear derailleur (tuned) - 194g
    xtr 950 11-32 ti 8-speed cassette - 228g
    xtr 950 hubs / mavic 217 cd / dt revolution - 1589g
    maxxis larsen tt 26x2.0 - 948g
    kmc x9sl chain uncut, maybe 250g depending on length
    thomson masterpiece 31.6x350 - 194g
    selle italia slr fibra - 131g
    ritchey wcs paradigm pedals - 242g

    some of these things will get a little lighter when i get all the ti and al bolts in, but the frame weight is also understated, cause there's no paint, brake studs or bottle bolts on it yet.
  • 12-17-2012
    auntesther
    Enlgund carts are absolutely awful in my experience. Just horrendous. I would rather use anything else including a rigid fork.
    The SID you have posted originally would be a far better option.
  • 12-17-2012
    s4gobabygo
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by auntesther View Post
    Enlgund carts are absolutely awful in my experience. Just horrendous. I would rather use anything else including a rigid fork.
    The SID you have posted originally would be a far better option.

    obviously the sid is a much better performing fork, but ive used many englund setups over the years, and have yet to have one leak, blow up, or underperform. they are relatively high-maintenance, but i over-maintain anyway. i like the fact that it's time-appropriate, and lighter by almost a quarter pound in whole.
  • 12-18-2012
    bridgestone14
    Where did you find air cartridges for a judy? That is awesome.
    I would get a set of avid ti's myself, just because I think they are cooler, plus they come with some ti bits already.
    Avid TI Brake Set Rim V Brake with TI Levers Orange | eBay
    Did you get your brake studs off of the frame? I wasn't sure they would come off of mine so I didn't try that hard, but they seem to want to come out.
    Are you getting ti studs? Lots of options out there for that. And what color are you thinking about painting it?
  • 12-18-2012
    s4gobabygo
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bridgestone14 View Post
    Where did you find air cartridges for a judy? That is awesome.
    I would get a set of avid ti's myself, just because I think they are cooler, plus they come with some ti bits already.
    Avid TI Brake Set Rim V Brake with TI Levers Orange | eBay
    Did you get your brake studs off of the frame? I wasn't sure they would come off of mine so I didn't try that hard, but they seem to want to come out.
    Are you getting ti studs? Lots of options out there for that. And what color are you thinking about painting it?

    i'm a bit of a hoarder of 90s rock shox stuff, so i just whipped up the fork out of what i had laying around. years ago i was working for a bike shop that moved locations and did a bit of clearance, at which point i snagged a whole bunch of NOS englunds we found hiding in a box in the back. (in case anyone is thinking of asking, no, they are not for sale... i never would have admitted to having NOS englunds on the vrc forum! sssshhhhh)

    i just test-built the fork yesterday to make sure everything was in order, and to get a weight. it's '96 judy sl lowers (3-piece, rare version without canti hanger) with brand new bushings, nos 1998 judy sl upper (lighter/stiffer one-piece steerer/crown/stanchions), nos englunds, and all ti hardware from the original '96 sl. the full weight came out to 1231g with a 10" long steerer and a star nut, which i'm quite pleased with. took it back apart and now it's ready for paint.

    the reasoning behind the avid sd7 brakes is i already have a pair of those laying around... i figure i'll try the ti hardware on them and see what weight i come up with. if they're still heavy, i'll get some mags and reuse the same ti hardware.

    the brake studs do come out of the kleins i've owned (this is my 3rd). obviously you just have to be careful, as they're almost always seized. i break them loose, and back out like a quarter turn, then drip chain lube in, wait an hour, then work that first quarter turn over and over until it loosens, then back it out opposite of how you'd do a tap... 1/2 turn out, 1/4 turn in, 1/2 turn out, 1/4 turn in, etc. they always feel like death coming out, but i havent had a problem yet. i'll be using ti studs after it's painted. so far i've been putting together a quite large order from toronto cycles which i'll place once i have all the parts in front of me. i'll be replacing everything i can with al or ti. i haven't really shopped around much for bolts, but i need so many different bolts, i was just going to get everything from toronto for convenience and to be sure the anodized colors are consistent.

    the last piece of the puzzle is the paint. i already have the decals for the frame and fork ready to go. the frame, fork, and cranks are all getting painted together. i'll be using a makeshift home spray booth and a basic spray gun. at the moment i'm leaning toward using a soft blue, but i just can't seem to make up my darn mind. once i commit to a paint color and order all the matching bolts, it's go time. any suggestions?
  • 12-18-2012
    bridgestone14
    All that time and money on this bike and you are going to paint it with a spry can.... I might have to report you.
    www.Kleinspainted.com - Kleins painted resprays by jonrock
    See if this guy still does paint. Maybe he can hook you up with a nice blue purple or orange fade. Or maybe a nightstorm or a bones from the custom paint days.