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  1. #1
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    It's 2012 -- Tune vs DT 240 hubs (& Enve v AX-Lightness wheelset)

    So...I'm making the jump from tubeless to a tubular wheel set after a enough time on tubulars on the road & CX. I'm curious for opinions on my hub selection.

    I've currently got an Enve XC 29 wheelset set up with Racing Ralphs, tubeless. These use a Cannondale SL front hub (Lefty) and a DT240 rear.

    I'm debating between a set of Enve XC 29 tubular rims or AX Lightness. I weigh <70kg w/o gear, so I'm well within the AX Lightness guidelines. The AX rims are about 50g lighter for the set. I want to use these on a lightweight Cannondale Flash 29er (hardtail) build.

    I'm considering lacing either up to a set of Tunes or DT Swiss hubs.

    Primary benefit of Tune is weight: Lighter than DT (344g for a Cannondale SL + DT 240 vs 304g for a Tune Cannonball + Kong vs 279g for a Tune Cannonball SL + Prince)

    Drawbacks:
    * Fewer points of engagement for Tune (24 v 36 for a 240 w/ the star ratchet upgrade)
    * Both Tune and DT240 can be switched between QR135 and 12x142, though it is easier for the DT240. I think about sometimes using the tubular wheelset on my Scalpel (12x142), but this is probably unlikely.
    * Have Tune reliability issues been solved? I've read about Tune hub failures in the past, but nothing recent. Can anyone give an update for 2012?

    Also, as far as rims go, I know the Env rims are pretty tough. Does anyone know about these AX Lightness rims? If a rock hit is enough to harm the AX rim, will it also harm the Enve? I'm also based in the US, so presumably Enve is a bit easier to work with than AX/Tune in the event of an issue.

    When talking about a full wheelset, the weights are 1225 for Enve w/ DT, 1145 for Enve w/ Tune Kong vs 1134 for AX w/ Tune King and ~1090 for AX w/ Tune Prince.

    I tend to choose smoother lines and would use the tubeless wheelset with beefier tires for the rockiest trails. I do have relatively high power-weight and enjoy climbing, so I wonder about the points of engagement.

    Thanks! Comments and opinions are welcome.

  2. #2
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    DT Swiss have have become the Swiss army knives of hubs, they're easy to service, easy to upgrade to new standards and features (like all the axles and freehubs). And they're reliable as a Swiss bank. I would definitely look at the DT 240S (or 190S hubs if you want to crazy sideways) for reliability and serviceability.

    Personally I'd also look at ENVE rims as they are bombproof.
    I'm a member of NSMBA and IMBA Canada

  3. #3
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    I have five bikes and six pairs of wheels - all with DT 240 hubs front and rear. I've just never had a reason to use anything else.

  4. #4
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    Thanks for the comments. I have a set of 240 hubs on Enve rimes (tubeless) and know how they can be pretty trouble-fee.

    Anyone have any 1st-hand experience with current generation Tune hubs (and/or AX rims)? Searches I've done have only turned up issues with older Tune hubs.

    Part of my motivation with this wheelset is to go light, but I don't want to make major sacrifices in durability. The difference in weight between Enve tubulars with DTs and AX rims with the lighter tunes is about 150g. That may not sound like much but 50g here, 150g there, etc, adds up to 1-1.5#.

    My real question is can the AX rims and Tune hubs hold up or are there issues? I know the Enves/DTs will hold up, but if I can save the weight and still have reliability then that is good for me.

    (I know the significance of 150g will come up with the typical 'lose some weight' comments, but (a) the two re not mutually exclusive and (b) I'm already 8-9% body fat...and (c) this is just lightweight project.)

    THANKS!

  5. #5
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    I have a season and a half on the new Tune Prince/Princess hubs with the 17mm axle.These have been great - no issues, they roll so nice and just seem so fast. I haven't heard of any issues with the new style Tune hubs.
    If you are looking to go light ,what about the Extralite hubs as they are lighter then the Tune's. If you go with either of these I would purchase them from Fairwheel bikes. I got both my Tune & Extralite hubs from them & their CS is top notch, I had an issue with a non-Tune product & they took care of me right away.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by xc71 View Post
    I have a season and a half on the new Tune Prince/Princess hubs with the 17mm axle.These have been great - no issues, they roll so nice and just seem so fast. I haven't heard of any issues with the new style Tune hubs.
    If you are looking to go light ,what about the Extralite hubs as they are lighter then the Tune's. If you go with either of these I would purchase them from Fairwheel bikes. I got both my Tune & Extralite hubs from them & their CS is top notch, I had an issue with a non-Tune product & they took care of me right away.
    thanks for sharing your experience. mind sharing your weight and the type of riding you do?

    what rims?

    good question about the extralites. i seemed to encounter more stories of durability issues for real mountain biking with the extralites, so i was thinking the weight savings for them would NOT be worth that trade-off. i was hoping the tunes would be nearly as light (approx 20g more) while being more durable.

    am i mistaken?

  7. #7
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    I've got a season on the Tune Kong rear hub with 17mm axle. It's been a good hub. I don't find the 24 poe a problem and I ride a lot of technical, trials-like trails with it. I choose it for my race wheelset over the DT240s because of the weight savings and it was actually the same price as DT240s. I liked the wheelset so much that I pretty much use it all the time.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigWorld View Post
    I've got a season on the Tune Kong rear hub with 17mm axle. It's been a good hub. I don't find the 24 poe a problem and I ride a lot of technical, trials-like trails with it. I choose it for my race wheelset over the DT240s because of the weight savings and it was actually the same price as DT240s. I liked the wheelset so much that I pretty much use it all the time.
    Thanks! I have ridden the DT240 with 18 POE (before doing the upgrade), and it was pretty much fine, so 24 POE should be good.

    I've heard the Prince hub is now the same mechanism as the King (Kong?), so that is a better sign for durability than how it used to be.

    I've heard with the Tune it is possible, though not easy, to switch from QR135 to 12x142. any comments on that?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetonrider2 View Post
    thanks for sharing your experience. mind sharing your weight and the type of riding you do?

    what rims?

    good question about the extralites. i seemed to encounter more stories of durability issues for real mountain biking with the extralites, so i was thinking the weight savings for them would NOT be worth that trade-off. i was hoping the tunes would be nearly as light (approx 20g more) while being more durable.

    am i mistaken?
    22 grams lighter for the Extralite rear over a Tune Prince. 29 grams lighter with Extralite front over Tune Princess. Note: my front Extralite was 76 grams, Fairwheel is claiming newest version @ 68 grams.
    I'm 150 lbs. Canadian Rockies = lots of steep up & down, rocky, lots of roots, often wet. I would agree with Tig that Tune POE is not an issue. I hard pretty hard but I'm not doing huge jumps or drops. Both bikes are 26"
    Tune Hubs, Sapim Superspoke, Sapim alum. nipples, Alpine rims = 1196 grams.
    Extralite hubs, Sapim CX-Ray spokes, Pillar alum. nipples, Enve XC rims = 1169 grams.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails It's 2012 -- Tune vs DT 240 hubs (&amp; Enve v AX-Lightness wheelset)-enve_extralite_studio_02_1.jpg  

    It's 2012 -- Tune vs DT 240 hubs (&amp; Enve v AX-Lightness wheelset)-sam_0149_1.jpg  

    It's 2012 -- Tune vs DT 240 hubs (&amp; Enve v AX-Lightness wheelset)-img_4318_1.jpg  

    It's 2012 -- Tune vs DT 240 hubs (&amp; Enve v AX-Lightness wheelset)-img_4323_1.jpg  

    It's 2012 -- Tune vs DT 240 hubs (&amp; Enve v AX-Lightness wheelset)-img_4320_1.jpg  


  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by xc71 View Post
    22 grams lighter for the Extralite rear over a Tune Prince. 29 grams lighter with Extralite front over Tune Princess. Note: my front Extralite was 76 grams, Fairwheel is claiming newest version @ 68 grams.
    I'm 150 lbs. Canadian Rockies = lots of steep up & down, rocky, lots of roots, often wet. I would agree with Tig that Tune POE is not an issue. I hard pretty hard but I'm not doing huge jumps or drops. Both bikes are 26"
    Tune Hubs, Sapim Superspoke, Sapim alum. nipples, Alpine rims = 1196 grams.
    Extralite hubs, Sapim CX-Ray spokes, Pillar alum. nipples, Enve XC rims = 1169 grams.
    thanks for taking the time to provide additional comments.

    i'm using a lefty, so the savings on the front hub is minimal (5g at best). there's not much variance between an extralite, tune, cannondale SL.

    how do you rate the performance of the extralites vs the tunes? engagement? durability?

    how easy (if at all possible) is it to switch the extralite rear from QR135 to 12x142?

    if you had to choose one set of hubs, which would it be?

    i like light weight but not at all costs. glad to get the feedback from a rider who is definitely riding steep an rocky terrain.

  11. #11
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    The Extralite HyperHubs are lighter and I haven't heard of a single issue with them. 36 POE.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfer1 View Post
    The Extralite HyperHubs are lighter and I haven't heard of a single issue with them. 36 POE.
    thanks--i don't know why i thought there would be more an an issue.

    perhaps i ruled them out because the rear hub is not convertible between qr135 and 12x142. can one convert them?

    this complicates my decision. i was settling in on ax lightness rims + tune hubs!

  13. #13
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    HyperRear

    Yes, you can convert them.

    HyperHubs faq

  14. #14
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    awesome--thanks!

    hm. extralite back into contention for me...possibly the leading contender?

    thoughts on an ax-lightness + cx-ray + extralite tubular build for a 29er w/ a 70kg (no gear) rider?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetonrider2 View Post
    thanks for taking the time to provide additional comments.

    i'm using a lefty, so the savings on the front hub is minimal (5g at best). there's not much variance between an extralite, tune, cannondale SL.

    how do you rate the performance of the extralites vs the tunes? engagement? durability?

    how easy (if at all possible) is it to switch the extralite rear from QR135 to 12x142?

    if you had to choose one set of hubs, which would it be?

    i like light weight but not at all costs. glad to get the feedback from a rider who is definitely riding steep an rocky terrain.
    Honestly I'd buy both again, I know that's not helping much but they've both been great & I really don't notice the lower POE on the Tune. The Tune is finished so nice & rolls great. Extralite has the weight advantage & its easy to service the freehub - once the cassette is removed all you need is two 5mm allen wrenchs. You need special tools to get into the Tune freehub, although you can get lube into it by carefully removing the o-ring seal & dripping some Phil Wood Tenacious oil in.
    I researched the Extralite hubs for along time & never found one neg. review or issue, where did you encounter the stories of durabilty on the Extralite's?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by xc71 View Post
    Honestly I'd buy both again, I know that's not helping much but they've both been great & I really don't notice the lower POE on the Tune. The Tune is finished so nice & rolls great. Extralite has the weight advantage & its easy to service the freehub - once the cassette is removed all you need is two 5mm allen wrenchs. You need special tools to get into the Tune freehub, although you can get lube into it by carefully removing the o-ring seal & dripping some Phil Wood Tenacious oil in.
    I researched the Extralite hubs for along time & never found one neg. review or issue, where did you encounter the stories of durabilty on the Extralite's?

    thanks! well, i have been told that the extralites require more maintenance than tunes. point noted about not needing other tools for the extradite.

    finish is probably the least of concerns i have.

    the hyper camber extralite rear is within grams of the tune prince rear, but the hyperrear extralite may be all i need.

    the folks at r2 bike advised going with tune. just can't quite decide.

    does your extralite require more frequent servicing than the tune? how often are you servicing either one? i'll typically be riding either in dry conditions.

  17. #17
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    Have had my Extralite apart twice to check for dirt/water & it was spotless inside. Cleaned out old grease/oil and applied fresh fork oil & Extralite Alum. grease. Tune has not needed service, but going to add Phil Wood Oil to it soon.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by xc71 View Post
    Have had my Extralite apart twice to check for dirt/water & it was spotless inside. Cleaned out old grease/oil and applied fresh fork oil & Extralite Alum. grease. Tune has not needed service, but going to add Phil Wood Oil to it soon.
    good feedback. sounds minimal with either one.

    any thoughts on the extralite hypercamber (195g) vs the hyperrear (168g) for a 29er build?

  19. #19
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    also...one other minor question. i've read the extralites tend to be noisy. any comparisons of tune v. extralite noise while freewheeling, esp relative to a king or dt hub?

    i used to ride kings but after a brief stint on easton hubs i came to appreciate a quiet ride while out in the woods. the dt 240 (w/ ratchet upgrade) is pretty quiet for me.

  20. #20
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    Yep, the Extralite HyperRear is noisy. Some people prefer it that way.

    HyperRear
    Nabensound Extralite - YouTube

    Tune Prince
    Nabensound Tune Prince - YouTube

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfer1 View Post
    Yep, the Extralite HyperRear is noisy. Some people prefer it that way.

    HyperRear
    Nabensound Extralite - YouTube

    Tune Prince
    Nabensound Tune Prince - YouTube
    awesome--thanks for posting. yeah, lately i prefer a more quiet hub to one that is very loud.

    those 2 sound pretty comparable--just the tune has a higher pitch. would be cool if there was a 'reference hub' on there, something that i could compare to that i know about (with their same setup).

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetonrider2 View Post
    So...I'm making the jump from tubeless to a tubular wheel set after a enough time on tubulars on the road & CX. I'm curious for opinions on my hub selection.

    I've currently got an Enve XC 29 wheelset set up with Racing Ralphs, tubeless. These use a Cannondale SL front hub (Lefty) and a DT240 rear.

    I'm debating between a set of Enve XC 29 tubular rims or AX Lightness. I weigh <70kg w/o gear, so I'm well within the AX Lightness guidelines. The AX rims are about 50g lighter for the set. I want to use these on a lightweight Cannondale Flash 29er (hardtail) build.

    I'm considering lacing either up to a set of Tunes or DT Swiss hubs.

    Primary benefit of Tune is weight: Lighter than DT (344g for a Cannondale SL + DT 240 vs 304g for a Tune Cannonball + Kong vs 279g for a Tune Cannonball SL + Prince)

    Drawbacks:
    * Fewer points of engagement for Tune (24 v 36 for a 240 w/ the star ratchet upgrade)
    * Both Tune and DT240 can be switched between QR135 and 12x142, though it is easier for the DT240. I think about sometimes using the tubular wheelset on my Scalpel (12x142), but this is probably unlikely.
    * Have Tune reliability issues been solved? I've read about Tune hub failures in the past, but nothing recent. Can anyone give an update for 2012?

    Also, as far as rims go, I know the Env rims are pretty tough. Does anyone know about these AX Lightness rims? If a rock hit is enough to harm the AX rim, will it also harm the Enve? I'm also based in the US, so presumably Enve is a bit easier to work with than AX/Tune in the event of an issue.

    When talking about a full wheelset, the weights are 1225 for Enve w/ DT, 1145 for Enve w/ Tune Kong vs 1134 for AX w/ Tune King and ~1090 for AX w/ Tune Prince.

    I tend to choose smoother lines and would use the tubeless wheelset with beefier tires for the rockiest trails. I do have relatively high power-weight and enjoy climbing, so I wonder about the points of engagement.

    Thanks! Comments and opinions are welcome.
    One of the tune hubs seems to ustilize the exact same system as dt BUT it actually looks like some precision machining has been performed. Whereas the dts looks like they cast the internals or maybe fabricated them with a hacksaw or something.




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    Specialized sucks ass.

  23. #23
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    yeah, that's the dt star ratchet.

    guys, any thoughts on the extralite hypercamber for a 29er? necessary? recommended? it adds weight (35g) if i go that route and basically makes the extralites the same weight as the lightweight tunes.

  24. #24
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    I would go with Tune/Enve Combo, Enves are great!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by xc71 View Post
    22 grams lighter for the Extralite rear over a Tune Prince. 29 grams lighter with Extralite front over Tune Princess. Note: my front Extralite was 76 grams, Fairwheel is claiming newest version @ 68 grams.
    I'm 150 lbs. Canadian Rockies = lots of steep up & down, rocky, lots of roots, often wet. I would agree with Tig that Tune POE is not an issue. I hard pretty hard but I'm not doing huge jumps or drops. Both bikes are 26"
    Tune Hubs, Sapim Superspoke, Sapim alum. nipples, Alpine rims = 1196 grams.
    Extralite hubs, Sapim CX-Ray spokes, Pillar alum. nipples, Enve XC rims = 1169 grams.
    Sorry to hijack, but That Ibis is amazing! How much does it weigh?

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